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This fits Tzeentch perfectly, completely incomprehensible.

mmm not sure what to think of them.

Reading the thread yes abstract art does require a explanation. If a artist can't explain his actions then what separates this from "Hey guys I melted a couple of cubes and put them on bases!" As much as I would like to agree with the tidbit you posted.

As for the army itself yes it is very Tzeentch. I probably like your screamers the best. the pink horrors could use a little bit more character to them. The chariots are decent as well. the Soul grinder is a bit to far fetch since its built by a different faction other then Tzeentch himself.

@Tylermenz cheers for pointing this out:

gwaahr wrote:If people dont get it i feel no obligation to provide an explanation - some people just wont
Proceeds to quote something or other

I can't believe you wrote that..... I get it, i just don't dig it personally, deal with it, keep what the lecturers Taught you for the Essay bro.

tylermenz wrote:
Your qoute "If people dont get it i feel no obligation to provide an explanation - some people just wont. "

Leaves me with an ill taste in my mouth.

I dunno. I get where he's coming from. I had a module back in uni, and got sick of explaining the principles behind a piece of work to my flatmates. It made sense to them once they'd had the walkthrough, but you kind of get burned out after the 5th or so time of giving the blow-by-blow. It's not snobbery, it's just too much brain warping.

Abstract art and other similar schools are definitely something for people with an ingrained love of art, as it's often nonsensical without knowing the whys and wherefores. It's not due to snobbery that it isn't accessible, it just relies a lot more on background knowledge and thoughts. It's kind of like trying to somersault before you can walk - something that you tend to get into once the foundation principles are known.

Apart from Grayson Perry. He's just bonkers. ( Awesome win point: My wife became friends with Phillipa Perry after being followed on twitter by her - that unveiling in manchester a few weeks back? Went. Hobnobbed. Enjoyed.)

I was skeptical of this idea at first, but after examining the models and and realizing they are creations of the warp, I am impressed. I want to play against this army. The models are great representations of the incomprehensibility of the warp. Why would the create anything recognizable?

Of course many wouldn't play against this army because it is akin to 'these bits of rotting flesh is my Nurgle army,' but nevertheless is does make sense. Matters of laziness or 'non-GW' parts don't matter to me as I play for the story and this makes a great story. Heck, I might even play that Nurgle army if there weren't sanitation issues.

Also, I am a very un-artsy person. The fact that I've even painted my army has impressed me.

I'd have to agree whole heartedly with tylermez and xlightscreen. Especially about the soulgrinder not being from tzeentch himself. Also if these are to represent ever changing form then it would be nice to at least see different shapes, or maybe convert one to appear as if it is coming out of the warp, perhaps some gs tendrils or a few arms flailing. It just seems they lack character, they appear fragile, not frightening like demons would appear.

I do however feel your soulgrinder is your strongest piece yet, because it has that melting and changing facet, and you can almost see faces coming out of it. If you could capture that essence in all the pieces i would be more okay with it.

But this is one of those armies where you will absolutely hate it or completely love it, like a Tarentino movie

First impression: This is the laziest idea I have ever seen. Maybe cool for one mini, but a whole army? Pff. No way.

On reviewing: Actually, this is kind of cool.

2nd review: This is an awesome idea. Simple, innovative, and well executed.

3rd review: Oh....oh god no.... I can see faces in the polystyrene. They're... they're calling me......
Please...no,please!...NO.... NOOOOOOOO......!
*Brain melts into a cube*

cool army i love it , the shapes have some nice contours etc, and very surreal and chaos.

If it were anything other than Tzeentch, I'd be like "No way." However, I think you've hit the nail right on the head as far as the style of The Changer of Ways.

One thing I think I would do is incorporate some of the "change" element, however. Maybe add some random eyes or miscelaneous appendages sprouting from the cubes, just to add a more Daemonic look to some of them.

Why does 'change' always get interpreted as being random appendages, mouths and eyeballs popping out every which way?

Isn't this project over a year old? I remember seeing this entire army, painted, it was a point of a 'is this art??' thread somewhere else? I am a bit surprised to see it presented as if it just started???

gwaahr wrote:Why does 'change' always get interpreted as being random appendages, mouths and eyeballs popping out every which way?

Because such abominations and random anatomies are inherent in that which Chaos is so accustomed; the idea mutation and the warping of the body and soul.

I get what you're going for, and I think it's a fantastic idea, but the cubes don't look nearly Chaotic enough. They look like a floating variant of the Gelatinous Cubes from D&D. Making them look more Daemonic, since thats what they are, would not only add to the look of the army, but also divulge from the "It's a bunch of floating cubes" look. It makes more sense that minions of Tzeentch would be ever changing and take on various forms that would be both disturbing and frightening to the mortal races. I think a block of flesh with the surface of it changing and morphing with appendages and the like every-which-way is not only more terrifying and disturbing than a porous pink cube, but also more Daemonic and in-line with Chaos and Tzeentch.

Take my advice or don't, but I think the cubes are a bit plain. The other models look great as-is, but the Horrors look like blocks of Jello.

I can believe in!

Sorry couldn't resist >.<

The army isnt fully painted, or even built yet..

http://forums.tauonline.org/project-logs/79825-cubes-tzeentch.html

According to this thread you started this project sometime last year. Is there a particular reason you're making it look like you just started it on the 22nd?

Warboss Gutrip wrote:I like it...

But I get a strong 'I don't want to have to spend money on GW miniatures' vibe.

It is cool though.

Ambull wrote:I like it...

From past work one can tell that gwaahr is NOT lazy.

Two qoutes from a familiarly named "Waargh" on Tau Online, about this same army (or at least one which has the exact same models, concept, and pictures) from just under a year ago.

"Basically I want to make the cheapest and quickest army possible just for club games."

"and I want a free army"

The Chariot was cool, defending your idea as artistic and and unique without mentioning that that isn't the reason you made it....but that you just happened to want an army and had Styrofoam laying around...i don't even know what to say.

On a side note, did anyone else think of the Umbra from Xenology?

I dont see why this is an issue for you.

I started building the army midway through last year, I dont think I even had an account on dakka at that stage. Before I could make much progress with the project I had to put it on hold to focus on writing and exhibiting for uni. I now have more spare time and have started work on the army again. So I made a thread on dakka about it to reach a broader international audience while i work on finishing the army off.

+edit+

And for the record, I DO want a 'free' army. And I dont think there is anything wrong with that having been my initial impetus for making this army, its come a long way, and im excited about where im planning on taking it.

I just don't see why you didn't make it clear that this army was started before. Because, going by your other thread, none of your "updates" are really updates at all. They're just models you finished months ago and are recycling in your Dakka thread. Why not just say "I started this army last year, here's what I've done so far" and then add new stuff instead of adding stuff you've already done.

It's like saying "I've had a model 100% finished and posted on other sites for a year, but I'm going to post WIP shots for days before actually showing content that I already had ready to show back when I started the topic."

It's just a little...I dunno, odd. It's not so much an issue as much as I don't understand why you did it.

I certainly hope to see some new models now.

Cheers!

gwaahr wrote:I have collected over 12 GW armies, and painted over a dozen commissioned ones. I used to participate in organized events and tournaments untill i grew tired of the scene and the direction the game was being taken.

Im currently undertaking my masters in fine art and now i just play in my garage and paint stuff for fun.

Big ups on undertaking a masters. I'm currently in my last year of a fine arts degree here in that little island New Zealand. I am contemplating taking a masters on but I am unsure if I have come to the right understanding required yet. Very fine army by the way, reminds me of a Hoffman painting.

because im using my girlfriends mac(which im yet to fully grasp) and our internet sucks and keeps dropping out? i had to update pics in dribs and drabs over a couple of hours yesterday.


I chose to present the pictures with as little information as possible simply to let people on dakka come at it fresh. And honestly, i didnt think about it that much, its not a calculated attack, its just a modelling diary.

gwaahr wrote:because im using my girlfriends mac(which im yet to fully grasp) and our internet sucks and keeps dropping out? i had to update pics in dribs and drabs over a couple of hours yesterday.


I chose to present the pictures with as little information as possible simply to let people on dakka come at it fresh. And honestly, i didnt think about it that much, its not a calculated attack, its just a modelling diary.

Alright, I meant no offense, it was a simple question, there's no reason to get defensive. A little common civility and a good attitude will get you far here on Dakka. The opposite will not. Likewise, when someone gives you some constructive criticism, don't ignore it or get offended. Simply look at it with an open mind (like so many of us here have with your Cubes of Tzeentch; some more than others), analyze and explain why that criticism or suggestion seems off to you. Instead of saying "I feel no need to explain myself to you", a very arrogant and pompous approach to a civil conversation, approach the criticism with empathy and you will find that you not only make less enemies, but you may also end up improving your army beyond even what you thought possible.

This is a great army and you have a great idea, but everything has room for improvement. The Dakka community is here to give you our ideas and support, so don't just brush off a critique as an attack on your artistic freedom. I personally love this army and I think it would be alot of fun to play against. It's also very inspirational to those who maybe don't have alot of money at the moment and/or want an army or a few units that are different. I commend you for being unique, but don't let your quest for uniqueness cause you to shut out and get in a turtle shell every time someone has a critique or suggestion.

xlightscreen wrote:
Reading the thread yes abstract art does require a explanation.

No, not at all. Some artists may chose to present their own interpretation of their work to the viewer but there's no reason why they shouldn't let the viewers interpret it all for themselves. In fact there's no reason for the artist's personal interpretation to be any more valid than any other viewer's. Once the work is complete, the artist is just another viewer of the piece.

Oh and:

gwaahr wrote:
Why does 'change' always get interpreted as being random appendages, mouths and eyeballs popping out every which way?

So true!

I wish there was a karma system on Dakka - the above would get some serious positives from me. (Frig, the above being Darth Bob. You ninja, Jackanory! )

Nice work with the cubes though - really original idea, and really fitting for Tzeench! I like them as they are - I think tentacles and such would ruin their simplicity and surrealism.

We aren't accusing you of anything btw, there is nothing to be gained or lost either way, unless of course you are posting someone else's work, which I don't think you are anyways.

Just odd, I actually was a huge proponent of yours in a thread discussing this finished army last year, defending it as a wonderfully original, perfectly in character yet unique and well executed idea. I did say that a little more variety in Geometry would have helped, and also having multiple mini cubes orbiting the chariot for instance would have been cool. But overall, I was very impressed.

I do distinctly remember seeing a large, painted army. Forgive us for wondering out loud what is going on, but I've been a pretty avid Dakka reader for a while now and this is the first time I have seen someone re-present something as new before.

Your memory must be hazy, because the army is sitting over there on the shelf looking back at me in unpainted mockery.

Im planning on doing a second batch of horrors that have varying degrees of distortion/dissolution, to be interspersed throughout all the units to zazz them up. Im thinking a few mini-diorama type of things like the 'unit filler' thing used in fantasy armies. Id like to include at least one minidiorama of a cube attacking a human of some kind, just for a visual reference for the more discriptively inclined.

At first I was pretty hesitent to make the cubes any more representative, but now after having put the project on hiatus ive warmed to the idea of putting as much concerted effort into the modelling/painting as I would any other army. I had 2 commission armies on the go at the time of inception, so the cubes began as a fun side project away from all that.


Im currently painting up horrors, going with softer colour shifts like the screamers, albiet with a few outright rigid blue|pink shifts thrown in too. It just seems more chaosy, y'know?


oh yeah and hey im not that lazy guys, sometimes i get around to doing things, like i built this squiggoth in 2006/...or 07...or something, cant remember

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

This is great. Loving the more broken down cubes, especially the hollow ones.

Any ideas for the 'blockomancer'? Perhaps him sitting within a larger cube, almost like a throne?

probably more like silver surfer/penitent engine/tool music video

I love how much this thread is ruffling feathers. It's really creating a fascinating discussion, I don't think anyone's really being offensive: there are many challenges with this project, on gwaahr's end as the creator and on our end as the audience and the viewers of the final product.

Let's all keep an open mind as we anticipate more updates.

I am not degrading the craftsmanship or the creativity, but if I played this army, outide of the Pink and Blue Horrors, I'd be constanty asking which is which. Especially if two units happened to collide in battle, I wouldn't know which I was targeting. And if you're going for anything to pay in a tournament, you may be able to argue that the 50-60% GW rule could be referring to net weight, and a lot of these "minis" are probably lighter than their GW bases, so maybe?

It would be truly hilarious if you added bits of GW figs to the bases as battle detritus, and those weighed enough to make your army tournament legal.