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2011/04/13 18:12:52
Subject: Re:Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
just messing with you
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Though he may be a douche bag, he has what it takes to be a captain. Not everyone will love their leadership, and he has the balls and the skill to pull off what he does. The reason he can push the limit so far is because...
A. Hes buddy buddy with Calgar
B. He has the skills to back it up
C. Hes pretty much that guy that knows everything and is good at whatever he does and can get away with anything.
Im just happy every game I play against him he ends up dead. I can't help it, being a Uriel fan I have to.
2011/04/13 18:52:04
Subject: Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
The problem isn't that Sicarius is good at what he does, its that he is so darn full of himself while doing it.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote:Its generally a bad idea to use your fanmade fluff in conjunction with existing characters.
Arguement as to why the crusaders don't like ultramarines
Spoiler:
yeah I know, but it is not like any one will take my lore with him seriously it was a brawl and the ultramarines don't like chapters that stray from the codex. Like my chapter who just say you we are doing our own thing. We were founded during the 2nd founding, and we are charged with defending the ghoul stars by ourselves we can't have only just 1,000 marines, bah, we want 5,000 at most. They currently have only 3,500. They have companies and such but the name each thing differently and they have veterans attached to each company etc. etc.
Yeah my chapter doesn't give a rats ass about the Ultramarine's Codex. They are the emphasis of what all astrates should be, protectors and defenders of humanity (The Crusaders.) of course they did wipe out an entire system because there was a corruption by the mutants.
The Crusaders basically sent their Captain of the 29th with alot of other Captains of the Storm Crusaders to rendivous with the Ultramarines to attack a planet together. As the Crusaders were the closet support force nearby. (They were gathering artifacts, and killing orks.) They enter orbit killing every single chaos marine on the planet, then the two Leaders Tyrion and Scarius get into an agruement, it was about that Tyrion didn't follow the codex at all. Not even one bit. Scarius called him a scoundrel, and blight on the imperium, just like his homeplanet. (Which was destroyed by chaos.) Tyrion gets pissed and lashes forward pulls out his knife, the two end up in a duel. Tyrion loses, he lost due not having his halbried at the time, and not having that much experince with a blade at the time. But Cato Scarius owned him nonetheless. The two chapters have yet to like each other again.
Anyway Cato is just a douche in power armor and in the command of the 2nd company the most over decorated company of all time. All of his armor and awards he wears into battle really shows him as "Ha I steal from dead people. And then disown everyone, oh yeah Agemman the veteran who surivived the Battle of Macragge barely and saved the life of millions of lives sucks more than anyone. HAhahahahaha."
Agemman is a badass not going to lie, though his predecessor really proved what an ultramarine truly was inside. A hero and a shining example of what Cato should be.... not-douchey
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2011/04/14 04:41:37
Subject: Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
Uriel was thrown out for throwing aside his chapters colors in favor of deathwatch. And besides, it's not like Calgar actually looked down on Uriel for doing it. He gave him a way out. Cato sees the need to inspire his men with bold acts. Inside, he's down and dirty, get the job done.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
RAGE
Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
2011/04/14 05:05:13
Subject: Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
Cato gets away with things because he does it with low risk/high reward. Sure, he throws the lives of 7 marines away, but he kills a Norn Queen for it, which would take a chapter like the Space Wolves much more men. He's probably allowed to be a douche because he's earned his position. He's gained victories, so they give him a bit of leeway.
Besides, the main reason he's probably portrayed as a douche in the Ultramarines series is that he's technically an antagonist. Of course he's gonna look bad, if Ventris is the hero. Not sure about Black Reach, but it seems like most of the hate comes from the Ultramarines series. Is he really all the Marine dex describes him to be? Probably not. But it can be argued that there's a definite bias against him in the Ultramarines series.
Ultramarines don't have to suck, all this over-the-top-ward ridiculousness is what makes it suck.
Some people play to win, some people play for fun. Me? I play to kill toy soldiers.
DR:90S++GMB++IPwh40k206#+D++A++/hWD350R+++T(S)DM+
Cryonicleech wrote:Cato gets away with things because he does it with low risk/high reward. Sure, he throws the lives of 7 marines away, but he kills a Norn Queen for it, which would take a chapter like the Space Wolves much more men. He's probably allowed to be a douche because he's earned his position. He's gained victories, so they give him a bit of leeway.
When did Cato kill a Norn Queen? I think you've got Cato mixed up with Uriel and 7 mixed up with about 70.
Besides, the main reason he's probably portrayed as a douche in the Ultramarines series is that he's technically an antagonist. Of course he's gonna look bad, if Ventris is the hero. Not sure about Black Reach, but it seems like most of the hate comes from the Ultramarines series. Is he really all the Marine dex describes him to be? Probably not. But it can be argued that there's a definite bias against him in the Ultramarines series.
Ultramarines don't have to suck, all this over-the-top-ward ridiculousness is what makes it suck.
Ultramarines definitely do not suck; just some of them and the way they're over-portrayed. As for Sicarius; his tactics are mediocre from what I read in The Chapter's Due. The only reason they ever worked was because his men were skilled enough to pull it off; but Sergeant Vorolanus lost about 7-8 Marines of his squad because of it. That's a massive blow to any squad of Space Marines, because one of the reasons they fight so well is because they are a brotherhood and they bond in a strange, warrior-cult way. It takes time for that bond to form, so his unit will be fighting nowhere near as well as it did previously, especially when it's filled with newly-initiated Marines. Though the new initiates do indeed have the skills required for ranged and melee combat, they will not have learned how to fight as part of a Tactical squad.
Basically, Sicarius made one of his squads suffer greatly just so he could prance in, get stabbed in the heart and still not have the decency to finally die.
2011/04/24 01:57:30
Subject: Re:Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
I run a tournament list for the local tournaments of 1000 points with Cato Sicarius. I've never been an Ultramarines fan, but his rules worked very well and so I converted his model to fit in with my Deathwatch army.
I was told by many players who read the books, that I am like Cato Sicarius and he's a good choice for me and my playstyle. Now, I didn't think they were calling me a douchebag, I thought they were comparing that we both favor the same kind of tactics. (Drop Pod Assault, I've been running full Drop Pod since 3rd).
This has nothing to do with any of this, but I just wanted to point out: Cato is the leader who recognizes what must be done and sometimes sacrifices must be made. Out of all of the marine characters, he strikes me as the most 'realistic'. So what if he has a bit of a big ego, he gets the job done. For a Space Marine, Victory is all that matters.
I find that his rules are very nice as well, today alone, he was what I would have considered some of his rules to have made all the differences. (First round, tank hunters squad took down 2 land raiders vs a stupid list & Cato killed the enemy Librarian and Assault Squad with a 5 man unit supporting him through 4 rounds of combat. Second round, countercharge squad was able to decimate the wyches that charged them along with good ol'captain Cato who then proceeded to join in an engaged tactical squad and hold up an entire close combat for 3 rounds until the game ended. Third round? Seized the Initiative and used Tank Hunters to destroy three tanks I would not have otherwise taken down so quickly.)
Cato Sicarius = The Man. He did all of the above. ^
2011/04/24 05:14:54
Subject: Re:Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
If victory is all that matters, why did Uriel get shafted for defeating the Nids
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote:If victory is all that matters, why did Uriel get shafted for defeating the Nids
Because they are da Ultramarines hurr and Ultramarines are da bested and dey have a speshul blu buk dat der daddy gave them and it said "we must punish our heroes lawl".
Deliberately terrible grammar asides, that's pretty much the truth of it.
2011/04/24 17:18:17
Subject: Re:Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
Grey Templar wrote:If victory is all that matters, why did Uriel get shafted for defeating the Nids
Every story needs an underdog.
Uriel Ventris is that man. There is no doubt he is a heroic and even retains a great deal of humanity for a Space Marine, but given the Ultramarines are the most fanatically Codex of all Chapters.....
You can look at a Space Marine Chapter much like you would a fantasy Knightly Order with 'honor' and vows, the Codex Astartes and the tenets within are the most sacred teachings to the Ultramarines. To breach the Codex, is basically to dishonor your Chapter. There are examples of the exiled-knight/exiled-hero/exiled-whatever in every story who has to fight for redemption and forgiveness for his transgressions from his brothers, regardless of whether his actions were even wrong.
2011/04/24 17:40:39
Subject: Re:Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
A better question, how did Uriel Ventris become a Spacemarine? Gods, everytime i read one of his books i have to wonder when Spacemarines stoped being mercyles, inhuman crusaders of mankind and started becoming Ibram Gaunt in power armour.
2011/04/24 17:57:45
Subject: Re:Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
KingDeath wrote:A better question, how did Uriel Ventris become a Spacemarine? Gods, everytime i read one of his books i have to wonder when Spacemarines stoped being mercyles, inhuman crusaders of mankind and started becoming Ibram Gaunt in power armour.
Ibram. Gaunt. In. Power. Armor.
Why the feth are you complaining?
2011/04/24 17:57:53
Subject: Re:Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
KingDeath wrote:A better question, how did Uriel Ventris become a Spacemarine? Gods, everytime i read one of his books i have to wonder when Spacemarines stoped being mercyles, inhuman crusaders of mankind and started becoming Ibram Gaunt in power armour.
No clue mate, maybe the requirements have been lessened since the dark days of the Horus Heresy.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For the record, I have to say once more, Sicarius is still a badass in the lore and on the table.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/24 17:58:59
2011/04/24 18:04:44
Subject: Re:Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
KingDeath wrote:A better question, how did Uriel Ventris become a Spacemarine? Gods, everytime i read one of his books i have to wonder when Spacemarines stoped being mercyles, inhuman crusaders of mankind and started becoming Ibram Gaunt in power armour.
Ibram. Gaunt. In. Power. Armor.
Why the feth are you complaining?
Meh, Gaunt sucks, Ciaphas Cain in power armour on the other hand... Hehe, but seriously, Space Marines seem to become more and more human. Perhaps to make sure that the reader can relate to them but i actually liked the fanatical, borderline insane, zealot who could ( thanks to training from hell, psycho indoctrination and routinously fighting horrors normal humans cannot imagine ) barely called human at all, much more than their more current version.
2011/04/24 18:08:14
Subject: Re:Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
The hypocricy of Sicarius is quite odd. On the surface, I wouldn't expect him to be that against Ventris; as he gets the job done, favours innovation etc - like Sicarius himself. Thinking about it, the only real difference seems to be that Ventris cares for the lives of Imperial citizens and his Astartes, while Sicarius does not. Maybe he feels threatened by Ventris?
While he apparently follows the Codex, 'interpreting' it in quite a vainglorious way (Ref: Fall of Damnos), one couldn't be blamed for thinking he disregards it in favour of innovation and glory seeking entirely. I see him as essentially embodying the radicals among Ultramarines, with Aggeman embodying the Puritans, as everything he does appears to be Codex like leading by example, having a fixed chain of command etc, it's just harder to see beneath his arrogance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/25 06:48:58
2011/04/25 17:53:07
Subject: Re:Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
thats my guess too.
Cato sees Ventris as a threat to his obvious clam to Calgar's seat upon his death.
much like Agemmon must see Ventris as, traditionally, the 1st captain becomes Chapter master upon the previous one's death.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Cato sees Ventris as a threat to his obvious clam to Calgar's seat upon his death.
much like Agemmon must see Ventris as, traditionally, the 1st captain becomes Chapter master upon the previous one's death.
To be honest it's a load of bullcrap, the codex astartes says the Captain of the first will be the next chapter master (unless he.. TRAGICALLY DIES!), so I really don't think even GW will bring out fluff that says the Ultra's change that tradition.
Then again, when you look at the massive blemish on the GK codex that is Draigo's fluff..
2011/04/25 18:13:25
Subject: Re:Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
GKs aren't a codex chapter
and Draigo's story is actually quite moving and tragic
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Darkvoidof40k wrote:To be honest it's a load of bullcrap, the codex astartes says the Captain of the first will be the next chapter master (unless he.. TRAGICALLY DIES!), so I really don't think even GW will bring out fluff that says the Ultra's change that tradition.
Many Ultramarines Edit:are very strict Codex adherants, to the point that they're basically hidebound to a set of rules - rendering them little better than automatons following a pre-set set of rules, but they aren't all like that. If a more suitable replacement for Chapter Master arises, I doubt they would pick an inferior or less well suited choice purely to stick to tradition. I mean, the Codex itself isn't fixed - it has been added to and expanded over the years, its evolved; and that in itself shows that there is room for innovation etc. If a better strategy or an expanded strategem is needed for a scenario not accounted for fully in the Codex, I doubt that the Ultramarines would stick with what they know won't work, or has less chance of success.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/29 12:27:33
2011/04/29 12:32:54
Subject: Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
Well, the reason he became a captain is because-- HEY LOOK OVER THERE, IT'S A DISTRACTION! *quickly encases him in plot armor*
I mean what do you expect from a mary sue that's named after assassinations (yet knows nothing about assassination) and whose name is associated with Judas Iscariot, yet isn't involved in betrayal?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/04/29 12:34:13
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/04/29 12:42:54
Subject: Cato Sicarius - How did he bcome a Captain?
you we are doing our own thing. We were founded during the 2nd founding, and we are charged with defending the ghoul stars by ourselves we can't have only just 1,000 marines, bah, we want 5,000 at most. They currently have only 3,500. They have companies and such but the name each thing differently and they have veterans attached to each company etc. etc.
When did Cato kill a Norn Queen? I think you've got Cato mixed up with Uriel and 7 mixed up with about 70. 
Though the new initiates do indeed have the skills required for ranged and melee combat, they will not have learned how to fight as part of a Tactical squad.
