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Grey Templar wrote:I actually think they did a good job with TKs.

the lore transitioned quite well into a normal lore.


Khalida didn't get nerfed so much as got changed. previously, you paid to buy here and then paid upgrade your archers. now one unit of archers gots BS3 and poison for 'free'. put her in a large unit of archers(40+) and watch them reap many casualities. Volly fire and the multi-shot spell are the keys to making it devestating. you can get 70 shots with a unit of 50 if you get the Multi shot spell off.

70 shots nets 35 hits of which about 12 will be poisoned.

another 23 will be rolling to wound as normal. T3 will be taking about 12 wounds. against T4, 8 wounds. 4 against anything higher.


so a unit of 50 Skeleton archers with Khalida will reliably put out 24 wounds againt T3, 20 against T4, and 16 against T5+

While the numbers looks impressive , shouldnt we factor in the actual cost of Khalida since shes needed to boost the BS3 and poison?
Not to mention the mages to boosting # of shots.

That makes the archers really expensive >.<

Yes, she is expensive and so are the casters, but it becomes less important when you have larger and larger units.

the TK general also doesn't need to be in the front giving his Ld around as you are unbreakable.

this frees her up to sit there and baby sit the archers.


units of 40+ get very economical.


the casters also don't have to be in the same unit and can support the other units too.


even without the multi-shot spell, the numbers are still impressive.

You'll find SCs in pretty much every book are just force multipliers and fluff. I'm not sure there is any SC in any army that is "worth" his/her cost in pure damage output compared with just buying tons of core units instead.

But you have to realize that you're on a limited map with a limited time frame and throwing some monkey wrenches at your enemy is sometimes more viable than just throwing more dice.

My 1 cent.

Amaya wrote:I'm not impressed with Arkhan, at least not on foot.

I just field tested him in my last 2 battles and even when not on foot he isn't all that impressive. Lore of Death just doesn't seem to have the impact to justify such an expensive caster, I'd much rather have the Lore of Nehekhara for my priests, it's just so much more synergistic with the army. Don't get me wrong though, with a Casket, Hierotitan and ability to store dispel dice for power dice, he'll definitely get the spells off, and leave you with enough knocking around to fire off some of the bound items, but that set up will eat up a fair chunk of your points on things that could be more effective.

Of course it doesn't help that my second opponent essentially discovered the army I was running and tailored his High Elf army to be all but immune to my spells, with one unit having the immunity banner and another having the magic resistance banner. Great.

Grey Templar wrote:the TK general also doesn't need to be in the front giving his Ld around as you are unbreakable.

Crumble.

Grey Templar wrote:the casters also don't have to be in the same unit and can support the other units too.

Looking at the Incantations of the last TK book, this is a bit disingenuous as you never needed to be in the same unit to get the incantation off on it, barring for Tomb Princes which were the only people in the entire book who could incantation only on their own unit - Tomb Kings, Priests, and High Priests could all target out about 18".

Grey Templar wrote:even without the multi-shot spell, the numbers are still impressive.

Without the multi-shot spell, they become less-so when fighting anything more than Light Infantry / something without a 4+ or better save. And, again, there isn't a particular number improvement between "One unit firing poison shots at BS3" and "Two units firing poison shots at BS2".

Khalida doesn't "suck", but I'm surprised at how she can be looked at in this edition, compared to last, and people can go "Oh man, Khalida is so much better now".

DukeRustfield wrote:You'll find SCs in pretty much every book are just force multipliers and fluff. I'm not sure there is any SC in any army that is "worth" his/her cost in pure damage output compared with just buying tons of core units instead.

Mind, this is a relatively recent change, mostly because earlier SC's ranged between "Not worth their overpriced cost" and "Alright, you're using Teclis? I'll just hand you the Massacre result now."

Well, casters are the exception to that, because magic is the exception to that. Spells generally aren't just applying a set number of hits a turn, it's so much more random and potentially game-changing.

Looking at nearly every book now, there's basically no SCs who are worth a corresponding % increase in Killy over their generic Lord counterparts. They're often 2-5 times more expensive, "just" to get those fluffy special rules. Of course the rules can be real force multipliers--esp magic.

Grey Templar wrote:Yes, she is expensive and so are the casters, but it becomes less important when you have larger and larger units.

the TK general also doesn't need to be in the front giving his Ld around as you are unbreakable.

this frees her up to sit there and baby sit the archers.


units of 40+ get very economical.


the casters also don't have to be in the same unit and can support the other units too.


even without the multi-shot spell, the numbers are still impressive.

This is pretty apt, I've used a unit of 50 with Khalida and there isn't much that can stand up to that. Unfortunately when I first tried them I came across one of the things that can: Phoenix Guard just don't die to this setup, at least not before they can close the gap and wreck your skeletons in close combat. I think I shot over 100 arrows at them over two rounds scoring 60 odd wounds, and in total killed 8 Phoenix Guard, even though he made pretty good rolls, that's still just stupid.

GMR wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Yes, she is expensive and so are the casters, but it becomes less important when you have larger and larger units.

the TK general also doesn't need to be in the front giving his Ld around as you are unbreakable.

this frees her up to sit there and baby sit the archers.


units of 40+ get very economical.


the casters also don't have to be in the same unit and can support the other units too.


even without the multi-shot spell, the numbers are still impressive.

This is pretty apt, I've used a unit of 50 with Khalida and there isn't much that can stand up to that. Unfortunately when I first tried them I came across one of the things that can: Phoenix Guard just don't die to this setup, at least not before they can close the gap and wreck your skeletons in close combat. I think I shot over 100 arrows at them over two rounds scoring 60 odd wounds, and in total killed 8 Phoenix Guard, even though he made pretty good rolls, that's still just stupid.

yeah, there is always the rock to the Khalida Scissor.

its still going to wreck anything with a poor armor save.

Minsc wrote:

Ragnar4 wrote:I disagree.

I've said this somewhere else on this forum, but it bears repeating.

Last edition, I paid 270 points before command for a unit of 30 skeletons that started on my line.

How much would you pay for a unit that can be in your opponents war-machine line on turn 2?

Depends, if using Incantations with Chariots you could very possibly be in there Turn 1, engaged. Vanguard, Regular Move, My Will Be Done / Incantation for another 8+2D6", covers a grand total of 30-40" before including 12" deployment. Heck, single Prince mounted on a Chariot could quite conceivably get it done.

Also, as a note, I apologize if it's not "They Come from Below" or whatever the rule's name is. I looked only a few minutes at the magic items, and when I asked staff / GW goers Tuesday they said it works the same way.

Ragnar4 wrote:All told, The Herald, and the unit, with full command will run you 335 for the Herald on a horse, or 45 more points to toss him on a chariot. Seems like a hell of a bargain to me Minsc.

Wait... doesn't it come in the opponent's war machine line Turn 2, and start getting to charge Turn 3? Or can "Comes from Below" come in Turn 1 now?

Ragnar4 wrote:--Especially when considering that not only does the Herald allow you to re-roll your crumble, but he also subtracts 1 from the crumble result..

This applied last edition too, with the Icon Bearer. Unless that was FAQ'd and I missed it, in which case I apologize on this point.

1) If you Vanguard, you can no longer engage on the first turn. Even magic encantation doesn't allow you to charge with the old rules. Second half of this problem is that Chariots no longer count as "light chariots" they don't have Vanguard or the Fast Cav rules any more. Technically you could go with heavy cavalry or light cavalry as your war-machine hunters... But they have to contend with the fact that they have to go around your opponents battle-line, giving your opponent plenty of time to deal with you.

2) Entomed beneath the sand is massively different. The changes in a nut-shell: A) You don't have the choice if you're ETBS, you MUST bury your model if it has it B) You don't place markers first, you place the marker when the unit arrives C) Placement of the marker cannot be under a unit, you must place it 1" away from a unit D) If you mis-fire the odds your lose the unit permantely are down 33% E) After the marker scatters, the unit must simply be in contact with the marker in any legal formation/facing you cannot charge on the turn you come up F) You can come up on any turn after the first on a 3+ Meaning every great once in a while they won't show up all game. Couple this with the fact that you can't incant a charge with new Tomb Kings magic, and you've got yourself one very dissapointing situation.

3) I don't remember the Herald subtracting one from the roll for crumbling, but he was much more compulsory in 8th than he ever was in 7th. You had to build an army around a herald to justify him last edition.

Would TK be a good army for a starter? I used to play last edition Dwarfs and I play 40K. Im getting the TK Armies Book this upcoming weekend.

Ragnar4 wrote:2) Entomed beneath the sand is massively different. The changes in a nut-shell: A) You don't have the choice if you're ETBS, you MUST bury your model if it has it

I entirely missed that bit. Thanks!

Also on a tangentially related note, a sentence I have re-read a dozen times and it still isn't right:

"While a friendly Nehekharan Undead Wizard is within 12" of one or more Heirotitans adds +D3 to the casting result of each spell he attempts to cast"

I think they left out "he" or "the player" or somesuch before "Heirotitans".

Not sure why that continues to stick in my head since the first time I read it, but it does.

Chipposai wrote:Would TK be a good army for a starter? I used to play last edition Dwarfs and I play 40K. Im getting the TK Armies Book this upcoming weekend.

All of the core models are an older make if that bugs you. That would sway alot of folks one way or the other.

I'd almost say it was too soon to say if they would be a good starter army. They used to be a very hard army to play properly.

I think TKs are easier to learn now then they were before since their magic works like normal magic now.

they have alot more toys then before too.


Its probably too soon to say if they are a good beginner's army.

Minsc wrote:Khalida doesn't "suck", but I'm surprised at how she can be looked at in this edition, compared to last, and people can go "Oh man, Khalida is so much better now".

Im suspecting one reason.

Most people that takes Khalida now , are the ones that takes 1 rather large unit of archers.

But before, this edition , we could take many units of archers and will all still benefit her rule cross board.
So now she is cheaper in points to reflect her not been able to be effective in an archer heavy army , shes only effective in archer heavy "unit"

FacelessMage wrote:

Chipposai wrote:Would TK be a good army for a starter? I used to play last edition Dwarfs and I play 40K. Im getting the TK Armies Book this upcoming weekend.

All of the core models are an older make if that bugs you. That would sway alot of folks one way or the other.

I'd almost say it was too soon to say if they would be a good starter army. They used to be a very hard army to play properly.

Older models doesnt really bother me, the main reason I like them is because I want to be an archaeologist when Im older and do some Egyptology.

so, in 500 years, GW will send a team to excavate their old store locations and player homes looking for old miniatures and these will then be worth exorbinate amounts of money. the archeoplastic black market, the smuggling rings, the museums, I can see it all

Lol,I meant thats why I like Tomb Kings. The whole Egyptology thing I have a bit of a knack for and wanting to be an Archaeologist.

Chipp,

I think you should play what you want. These new Tomb Kings are much easier to get to grips with tactically. Not nearlly as hard as last ed. Last ed, though, a well played Khemri army was basically untouchable. Not so much now.

Anyway, play what you like, the tactics will come.

Pay attention to the Tactics section, I'll be posting a bit about tactics for Khemri as time goes on.

Alright,thanks.

Hmm this is more of a background question but anyways while I know the main theme of TK is egyptian themed but I've been thinking of making an undead greek army and TK seems to fit the bill. The giant snakes and sphinxes are hard to fit in but everything else sort of works.

Use the snales as medusae. Especially with the gaze attak of the Stalkers.

And pick any random mythological beast to use for the sphinxes. Or make them Clockwork.

FacelessMage wrote:And pick any random mythological beast to use for the sphinxes. Or make them Clockwork.

Chimera seems appropriate (as it's from a greek myth and flies). You might even get a model for one soon

Sphinxs are in Greek Mythology too.

its actually suspected the Sphinx originated there and not in Egypt.

kenshin620 wrote:Hmm this is more of a background question but anyways while I know the main theme of TK is egyptian themed but I've been thinking of making an undead greek army and TK seems to fit the bill. The giant snakes and sphinxes are hard to fit in but everything else sort of works.

I think that would be a splendid idea. If you do it then please post some pictures. Greek mythology is pretty neat.

Ah true, the famed greek tragedy oedipus in particular has a sphinx although I do not know what a greek sphinx would look like

Main reason I'm asking about this is becuase I have seen pics of wargames factory skeletons which someone described as very "Jason and the Argonauts"y . Not going to buy them directly (still dont trust those slippery people ) but warstore has them for sale. Not the best quality but they are already armed with greek weapons so maybe toss in an immortal miniatures set for some accessories



Dont know if they have bow and arrows though. Greek Chariots will be hard to get in large quantities. For giants maybe I could use scaled models and paint them in a stone color for "colossus of rhodes" that came to life. Main issue I have is trying not to use too much TK stuff

all Sphinxs look pretty much alike.

Human head or face, usually female and occasianally has human breasts, with the body of a Lion or other large cat. Wings are optional.

Just read the new book and I gotta say dissapointed.
The magic items are gutted from before, down to 8. Why?
The wonderful magic system is out the window, replaced by the standard fare. Dont make it too confusing for the kiddies I guess. Bah.
I read the arguments but it still seems to me that Neferata got nerfed bigtime.
The one redeeming quality of the whole thing is that Settra is much easier to employ now, as his cost and limited magic were prohibitive before.

Magic items got gutted becuase of the orcs unless you didnt see that coming

yeah, the new trend seems to be 8 unique magic items for each army book.


we probably should have seen it coming after they added the massive common magic item section in the BRB. it actually makes sense now why they expanded it so much.

Grey Templar wrote:yeah, the new trend seems to be 8 unique magic items for each army book.


we probably should have seen it coming after they added the massive common magic item section in the BRB. it actually makes sense now why they expanded it so much.

If they do this to the Dwarf Runes there will be an outright revolt.