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Reecius wrote:I don't care for Las plas razors myself except for BAs. I find I am always moving my tanks and prefer the increased accuracy of twin Las or the versatility of twin assualt cannons. To each their own, though.

I've been playing around with Wolf razorback spam, and I have to agree with this. Lasplas is great, but not when you're also trying to claim objectives with it. A twin linked lascannon is a really reliable weapon.

invisiblade wrote:You have a lot of luck with Crowe, or I had bad luck. Only thus far played one game as GK, and I assaulted a squad of 15 burna boyz with Crowe. He came in, cast his cleansing flame and caught 2 boyz. I then proceeded to try and parry their attacks. They caused 3 wounds, I failed all 3 saves. Reroll, and fail all 3 again, death to crowe. So basically he came in, starting the flame and caught 2 boyz before tripping and falling on his own sword. Thankfully, next turn the same storm raven that dropped crow off to his death moved up, dropped a dread and purifier squad, killed the big mek with the shock attack gun, dread blew troop deff dread, and purifiers assaulted 30 boyz killing all with No Retreat without taking a single un-saved wound.

Yeah, Crowe is good. He is not 100% awesomesauce though. I've had my share of failures with him as well, though I've had a lot more successes with him than failures. But for only a buck-fifty, he is actually one of the most efficient HQ's in the GK codex considering what he is able to do sometimes, not to mention the fact that he makes your purifiers scoring.

Just Dave wrote:Great game guys, really well reported as ever Jy2. Lovely armies also, Reece's is painted really well and Jy2, yours is coming along nicely, fast. Do you have a day job?!

Lol. Yeah, I do. But I confess, sometimes I do rummage through the forums at work.

Valek wrote:tbh,

I think the grey knights as played here are the kings of msu due to their reselient vehicles.

On the other hand fire power is evenly matches between both.

Between SW and the knights, it could go either ways. GK vehicles are very efficient due to Fortitude. At the same time, they have problems taking out long fangs from a distance. I think when Reece gets a little more experience playing against them, it'll probably be just like any other army to him (well, maybe a little tougher than just any other army).

Blackmoor wrote:
But the first turn is nightfight and JY2 he does not have any searchlights, so that is some protection. If you pop smoke then you should be ok, and even if the razorback gets taken out you can hide behind is as long as he does not roll a 6. He then has trouble getting fortitude off. The rune priests role in this match-up is to shut down the Grey Knights psychic powers. Jaws and Stormcaller are not going to be half as valuable as that.

I actually didn't realize that I had no searchlights until this game and even told Reece that. But it didn't really mattered as he still came towards me, thinking Bjorn was nearly invincible.

Without any TLOS-blocking terrain, I wouldn't take the risk of deploying the RP in razorback close to me. He would've gotten shot down or assaulted eventually as my army would be constantly advancing. If there was a HVT (high-value-target) such as the RP, I would've forgone 1 unit's shooting to try to get to his RP as quickly as possible to take him out.

jy2 wrote:

invisiblade wrote:You have a lot of luck with Crowe, or I had bad luck. Only thus far played one game as GK, and I assaulted a squad of 15 burna boyz with Crowe. He came in, cast his cleansing flame and caught 2 boyz. I then proceeded to try and parry their attacks. They caused 3 wounds, I failed all 3 saves. Reroll, and fail all 3 again, death to crowe. So basically he came in, starting the flame and caught 2 boyz before tripping and falling on his own sword. Thankfully, next turn the same storm raven that dropped crow off to his death moved up, dropped a dread and purifier squad, killed the big mek with the shock attack gun, dread blew troop deff dread, and purifiers assaulted 30 boyz killing all with No Retreat without taking a single un-saved wound.

Yeah, Crowe is good. He is not 100% awesomesauce though. I've had my share of failures with him as well, though I've had a lot more successes with him than failures. But for only a buck-fifty, he is actually one of the most efficient HQ's in the GK codex considering what he is able to do sometimes, not to mention the fact that he makes your purifiers scoring.

I always see Crowe running around and causing trouble. I would make it a a priority to take him out with a lascannon shot.

Blackmoor wrote:
But the first turn is nightfight and JY2 he does not have any searchlights, so that is some protection. If you pop smoke then you should be ok, and even if the razorback gets taken out you can hide behind is as long as he does not roll a 6. He then has trouble getting fortitude off. The rune priests role in this match-up is to shut down the Grey Knights psychic powers. Jaws and Stormcaller are not going to be half as valuable as that.

I actually didn't realize that I had no searchlights until this game and even told Reece that. But it didn't really mattered as he still came towards me, thinking Bjorn was nearly invincible.

Without any TLOS-blocking terrain, I wouldn't take the risk of deploying the RP in razorback close to me. He would've gotten shot down or assaulted eventually as my army would be constantly advancing. If there was a HVT (high-value-target) such as the RP, I would've forgone 1 unit's shooting to try to get to his RP as quickly as possible to take him out.

I would agree with you in a lot of games, but not this one. The reason why is that you just have so many vehicles and so much shooting you have to slow that down by stunning/shaking them. 5 dreads shooting every turn will wreck Reecius's mech army. Even if you can get to him in turn 3 and kill him it does not matter and he still served his purpose. Did he do anything earth-shattering this game that he was needed for?

Another problem with Reecius's army is that he really only shoots, and that is about it. When you got into assault with him, he has no counter to it (other than perhaps Bjorn). Mike Brant wrote a good article on why Tony K's army (who had larger grey hunter squads) was better then Stelek's army (who had razor spam much like Reece). The razor spam list is good, but when it can be out shot, it looses because it can't do anything else.
http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2011/04/notional-tourney-hammer-vs-store-hammer.html

Ok guys can i ask an off topic question. Im fairly new and play GK, Ive had a look in the codex and am curious as to how you cast a psychic power with a razorback/rhino as it has no leadership? Fortitude seems awesome, if only i knew how to use it lol.

Thanks.

taylor048 wrote:Ok guys can i ask an off topic question. Im fairly new and play GK, Ive had a look in the codex and am curious as to how you cast a psychic power with a razorback/rhino as it has no leadership? Fortitude seems awesome, if only i knew how to use it lol.

Thanks.

For the purposes of Psyker tests, all vehicles count as having ld10

Reecius wrote:
Doing it over, I would have deployed in a forced flank and played defense with Bjorn. That way, Jim would most likely be unwilling to shoot Bjorn for fear of turning him into an objective that I would take.

I agree. That is probably the best way to to play against me.

gorium wrote:How do you manage to get TL-AC LOS with the dreads if they are 1-6" behind a rhino? Normally, the barrel would either be pointing directly toward the tank side armor... or you have to aim them upward, preventing you from drawing LOS to the target...

If you model them any differently, aren't you modeling for advantage?

Of, if you do "accept to play with them firing from behind a rhino" then the target should be getting 50% cover (again, due to dread weapon placement).

With rhinos, the psyfleman dread doesn't really have too much of a problem shooting over them if they're 1-2" from the rhino (unless they are shooting down a slope or the target is really small). Also, you can assume guns can swivel vertically about 45 degrees (BRB p.59).

Now razorbacks or vehicles with a turret may be a different story.

SonsofVulkan wrote:
For round 2 you should replace them 3 with more TL las or even las/plas. Deploy bjorn and the rest of the army as far as possible and try to take out the rhinos/dreads. Make jy2 come to you with those 24" range psycannons.

I would have come to him nonetheless. With 2 objectives, I had to split my forces. But with 1 objective each, I would have left 1 strike squad and 1 dread behind. Then the 4 rhinos and 4 dreads (of which 2 are venerables) would have been advancing.

Polonius wrote:
I've been playing around with Wolf razorback spam, and I have to agree with this. Lasplas is great, but not when you're also trying to claim objectives with it. A twin linked lascannon is a really reliable weapon.

Las/plas is better against tyranids or foot-MEQ (i.e. terminators, lots of foot infantry). Against another mech army, tl-las is better.

Thanks Kenshin

What do you know, thanks for a nice batrep.

Me want moar!

Blackmoor wrote:
Another problem with Reecius's army is that he really only shoots, and that is about it. When you got into assault with him, he has no counter to it (other than perhaps Bjorn). Mike Brant wrote a good article on why Tony K's army (who had larger grey hunter squads) was better then Stelek's army (who had razor spam much like Reece). The razor spam list is good, but when it can be out shot, it looses because it can't do anything else.
http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2011/04/notional-tourney-hammer-vs-store-hammer.html

The difference between Reece and Stelek's list are Bjorn and his two dread friends. They are decent counterassault busters and serve to tarpit or stop anything that his shooting can't handle, until he can handle it. Although I agree with you, 5 man marine squads are way too light for me.

Blackmoor wrote:
I always see Crowe running around and causing trouble. I would make it a a priority to take him out with a lascannon shot.

Unless, of course, he is out of LOS hiding behind a vehicle or, better yet, in the vehicle itself (he usually takes my strike squads rhino).

But to be fair, Reece really wasn't familiar with Crowe. I kind of caught him off guard when I assaulted his units.

Blackmoor wrote:
Another problem with Reecius's army is that he really only shoots, and that is about it. When you got into assault with him, he has no counter to it (other than perhaps Bjorn). Mike Brant wrote a good article on why Tony K's army (who had larger grey hunter squads) was better then Stelek's army (who had razor spam much like Reece). The razor spam list is good, but when it can be out shot, it looses because it can't do anything else.
http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2011/04/notional-tourney-hammer-vs-store-hammer.html

While he really doesn't have any assault units, he relies on his 2 dreads + Bjorn as counter-assault deterrents. Much in the same way as I rely on my 4 or 5 dreads to discourage more assaulty armies from assaulting me. Believe me, this combination works. It's one of the reasons why both Reece and I have the success that we've had - dreads are very synergistic to our armies.

Also, Stelek's army didn't have any dreads for counter-assault. Get close and the only thing he can do is screen you out (but with a lot of screens!). Assaulty armies wouldn't even think twice before assaulting. With multiple dread bodyguards, you can be sure that they'll rethink their strategy before getting locked up in combat with your dreads.

taylor048 wrote:Ok guys can i ask an off topic question. Im fairly new and play GK, Ive had a look in the codex and am curious as to how you cast a psychic power with a razorback/rhino as it has no leadership? Fortitude seems awesome, if only i knew how to use it lol.

All Grey Knight vehicles (except henchmen chimeras) have the Psychic Pilot special rule, which essentially makes them LD10 psykers. They only have one power though, and that is Fortitude.

Yeah, the dreads work great for counter-assault except against monstrous creatures with high In or units with hidden strength 10 attacks like TWC, or Nob Bikers.

I rarely face assault armies that really scare me.

Deathwing is the army that really is a thorn in my side.

Thanks for the excellent battle report. Crowe actually works well in a MSU army. The enemy needs to priority target the dreads, psycannons, and razorbacks. This can often give Crowe the two turns of movement he needs to reach the enemy lines. A good trick I've found with Crowe is to adopt the defensive stance and not flame the turn he assaults. Then try to wipe the enemy squad in the opponent's assault phase and consolidate towards an assault

Wow, that was a nail-biter! Congrats on the win!

Looks like Crowe is really showing to be useful. I would keep him on the list for good

@jy2
Very nice tournament report with good pictures showing different angels for each turn.

Would be interesting to see a rematch if one happens now that Reecius is familar with what Grey Knights can do?

@Reecius
Was Stormcaller that useful? You seemed a little spread out for it to be really effective. jy2 only mentioned it being used only once. I usually go with jaws and living lightning for my rune priest.

@Avariel
Yeah, I love storm caller. I usually run my vehicles close together where a lot of them can benefit from it. My Rune Priest is typically inside a Razorback where he can't shoot living lightening anyway. I find it is better to give a lot of vehicles a 5+ cover than take one mediocre shooting attack in most cases.

Both those lists are air tight but i thought SW wouldve taken it for sure... mabey Reecius shouldve been more aggressive?

nirvana69 wrote:Both those lists are air tight but i thought SW wouldve taken it for sure... mabey Reecius shouldve been more aggressive?

Shoving bjorn down someone's throat is pretty aggressive!

Well I voted Grey Knights would win and then looked at the report and I was right That amount of psybolt Dreadnoughts along with fortitude on all armour is extremely powerful.

How did you find Crowe and are you using a Emperors Champion model?

Reecius wrote:Yeah, the dreads work great for counter-assault except against monstrous creatures with high In or units with hidden strength 10 attacks like TWC, or Nob Bikers.

I rarely face assault armies that really scare me.

Deathwing is the army that really is a thorn in my side.

Yeah, your army doesn't have too many weaknesses. I tried to exploit it once with my 20-haminator/vanguard Shrike Ravenguard army last time but failed.

olympia wrote:Thanks for the excellent battle report. Crowe actually works well in a MSU army. The enemy needs to priority target the dreads, psycannons, and razorbacks. This can often give Crowe the two turns of movement he needs to reach the enemy lines. A good trick I've found with Crowe is to adopt the defensive stance and not flame the turn he assaults. Then try to wipe the enemy squad in the opponent's assault phase and consolidate towards an assault

Yeah, he usually makes it into combat as he isn't seen as much of a threat, at least not initially.

Good tip about Crowe. I will try it out next time.

mega_bassist wrote:Wow, that was a nail-biter! Congrats on the win!

Looks like Crowe is really showing to be useful. I would keep him on the list for good

Most of the HQ's in the GK codex are pretty good. Honestly, it really depends on what type of build you want to run that determines which quarterback you're going to take.

Avariel wrote:@jy2
Very nice tournament report with good pictures showing different angels for each turn.

Would be interesting to see a rematch if one happens now that Reecius is familar with what Grey Knights can do?

@Reecius
Was Stormcaller that useful? You seemed a little spread out for it to be really effective. jy2 only mentioned it being used only once. I usually go with jaws and living lightning for my rune priest.

Yeah, we'll eventually have a rematch in the future. As for stormcaller, he actually used it twice, though I don't believe it stopped any of my shooting.




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nirvana69 wrote:Both those lists are air tight but i thought SW wouldve taken it for sure... mabey Reecius shouldve been more aggressive?

He was aggressive by ignorance. He didn't realize what he was getting into by moving Bjorn towards me.

mercer wrote:Well I voted Grey Knights would win and then looked at the report and I was right That amount of psybolt Dreadnoughts along with fortitude on all armour is extremely powerful.

How did you find Crowe and are you using a Emperors Champion model?

Crowe's been a lot more hit than miss. Granted, there's been a very few games in which he didn't do much, but by large, he's been useful.

Yeah, I used the Emperor's Champion. I've been using him since before the actual GK model came out. Now I've finally put the stormbolter on him, but that was after this match.

I see 2 strike squads in your list, even though you've "payed the Crowe tax." Do you find that warp quake and 4-6 points per model is worth the loss of all the awesome purifier extras? Or was it just a mater of needing enough points to fit in all 5 Dreads?

The 2 strike squads are there by design for anti-deepstrike defense. I honestly feel that a decent all-comer's GK list needs some type of deepstriking defense. Having 2 strike squads also gives me 2 advantages over a pure-purifier list (besides the obvious Warp Quake advantage):

1. I have 1 extra scoring unit without having to sacrifice a dread.

2. 1 strike squad can stay behind on an objective while Crowe takes their transport. Now I've got 4 mobile, credible threats (3 purifiers + Crowe) to the enemy instead of just 3.