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No no no matey, the bit of the gimps chasing you down the road, for being in 'their' country is the perfect example.

I really don't get racism, in so far as 'hey, he's not the same colour as us, GETTIM!'. Now finding it hard to tolerate some cultures, that I kind of get, as long as you strive to keep any reservations you have to a person by person basis. Sadly prejudice is part of being human, like it or not.

Swordwind wrote:This is why I find it odd that Americans, descendants of immigrants, are so against immigrants.

It gets even more ironic when they complain about immigrants to native Americans.

I'm seriously glad I never met anyone like that while I lived in TX.

Using that logic, change can never occur in a population or group. Using your logic, for example, modern brits that are against imperialism are hypocrites and/or wrong.

Bromsy wrote:

Swordwind wrote:This is why I find it odd that Americans, descendants of immigrants, are so against immigrants.

It gets even more ironic when they complain about immigrants to native Americans.

I'm seriously glad I never met anyone like that while I lived in TX.

Using that logic, change can never occur in a population or group. Using your logic, for example, modern brits that are against imperialism are hypocrites and/or wrong.

I should have rephrased that to "SOME Americans".

Bromsy wrote:
Using that logic, change can never occur in a population or group. Using your logic, for example, modern brits that are against imperialism are hypocrites and/or wrong.

You don't see the delicious irony in complaining to a Native American about illegal immigrants in America?

More addressing the first line there.

This is why I find it odd that Americans, descendants of immigrants, are so against immigrants.

Well it isn't that odd if you stop and consider the subject. I'm not agreeing with it by any means but it really isn't that hard to understand. Many Americans have little to no context for being anything other than an American. Time will only increase this cognitive distance. In 500 years it is going to seem even more absurd to tell someone who's family has been living in here for 700 years they should still have the mindset of immigrants. It is like trying to tell Native Americans that they are immigrants to (land bridge theory) so they should embrace American immigrants and assimilate more. When you tell someone who has lived somewhere all their life and their family has lived their for generations that they should still think in terms of being an immigrant it may seem baffling, if not ridiculous.

The population and geography of the country has expanded quite bit as well. The US has gone from a backwater blip on the radar to the third most populated country in the world with global interest and force projection capability anywhere. Things have changed and unsurprisingly people have changed as well. Though not that much, if you've ever seen Gangs of New York you see that the idea of a 'Native' American has been with us for a while. The narrative may be fiction but the atmosphere and attitudes presented actually did exist and are based on historical records.

Then of course there is the issue of really understanding how immigration actually functions in the country. For those who see immigration as part of a zero sum game the situation will always be problematic.

And this is just a broad overview with getting into any cultural specifics of different groups within the country.

It may not be right but it isn't hard to understand.

You will never be shot at driving through an urban ghetto...you may be shot and then robbed, but never widly shot at without reason.

I have, on the other hand, been shot at for looking at a car with the "for sale" sign on it in Tennessee while I was down there for my grandfathers funeral. What, the door was open, I can't look inside?

Karon wrote:You will never be shot at driving through an urban ghetto...you may be shot and then robbed, but never widly shot at without reason.

Bull gak.

Color of skin is a reason.
Color of the shirt you're wearing is a reason.
You don't belong in this hood homey is a reason.
The fact you may have a dollar is a reason.

Frazzled wrote:

Karon wrote:You will never be shot at driving through an urban ghetto...you may be shot and then robbed, but never widly shot at without reason.

Bull gak.

Color of skin is a reason.
Color of the shirt you're wearing is a reason.
You don't belong in this hood homey is a reason.
The fact you may have a dollar is a reason.

His point appeared to be that you would be shot and killed for a valid reason (robbery) while in a Ghetto, but merely shot at for an invalid reason (preventing auto theft) in the country.

I'm not sure how that rationale makes any sense.

biccat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Karon wrote:You will never be shot at driving through an urban ghetto...you may be shot and then robbed, but never widly shot at without reason.

Bull gak.

Color of skin is a reason.
Color of the shirt you're wearing is a reason.
You don't belong in this hood homey is a reason.
The fact you may have a dollar is a reason.

His point appeared to be that you would be shot and killed for a valid reason (robbery) while in a Ghetto, but merely shot at for an invalid reason (preventing auto theft) in the country.

I'm not sure how that rationale makes any sense.

It doesn't...

There are idiots with their own "agendas" in both urban and rural areas that will react violently to anyone they see as an "outsider."
There's really not much differance in Klan violence towards "Non-whites" and Gang violence against those who "don't belong in their hood".

People who are like this currently probably can't be saved. But the only way to solve this is to meet people half way. Theres no other way really.

People who express racism are in the wrong...but at the same time its frustrating that minority groups largely do not integrate that well (well, at least in the UK). Expressing violence and wanting to toss people out of the country is wrong...but at the same time when as area becomes largely 90% immigrants, refugees etc, that is frustrating. Claiming your own culture to be the best and all is wrong...but so is doing the same with foreign cultures; and not giving enough attention to the home country's culture. (Melting Pot to the extreme)

For every white supremacist there is...theres also another immigrant/refugee who has no interest in getting involved with their new 'home' country.

Yes, one is illegal (in cases) the other is not. But at the same time; both groups need to meet half way.

Well, i for one would like to say "Sorry" for what you've experienced.
and as mentioned earlier, that's not the way we all are. i'd say it's part
of the 20-30% of the "far right". and i feel there's a 20-30% "far left".
these aren't hard facts. just my opinion.

and i loved how we heard the constant cry of Bush derangement syndrom
for 8 years, yet almost silence about the similar 'derangement'. i had relatives
(distant cousins) send me an email in '07 talking about how Preisent Obama
was going to appoint Bill Ayers as the head of the Dept. of Education if he
won the election. i wrote back someting i'd heard in the past about 'bearing
false witness' and 'judge not let ye lest ye be judged' and oddly enough they
don't write anymore. I guess these god fearing relatives don't like having what
they shovel thrown back at them.

To the OP:
Just a slightly different take on this whole thing, did you happen to spit on that flag on memorial day?
Have you considered that maybe it was out for a reason? Possibly to honor a relative who was in the war?

snurl wrote:To the OP:
Just a slightly different take on this whole thing, did you happen to spit on that flag on memorial day?
Have you considered that maybe it was out for a reason? Possibly to honor a relative who was in the war?

After rereading and rereading the OP I can safely say I have no idea what you are talking about.

Why in gods name would he spit on the flag and how would you know?

snurl wrote:To the OP:
Just a slightly different take on this whole thing, did you happen to spit on that flag on memorial day?
Have you considered that maybe it was out for a reason? Possibly to honor a relative who was in the war?

Re-read my post and also perhaps watch the short film this was about.

I think you've somehow blurred my post with the post by olympia?

Aye, I'll be hard pressed to find an example where extremism was necessary, or good. Besides the good old American Revolution.

Anyway, I hope this thing gets funding, and then completely bombs, leaving debt for the company.

olympia wrote:Ah, good old central PA. Known as one of the few growth areas for the KKK in recent years. I was once on a long bike ride in the country and spit on a confederate flag some redneck had outside his house. The hillbilly saw me and but for a passing state trooper we would have had a proper scrap. Good luck to you MeanGreanStompa.

I am sorry MGS, and I apologise. This is the post I was referring to earlier.

Yes, good thing those upright cityfolk no anything like this.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20069748-504083.html

Frazzled wrote:Yes, good thing those upright cityfolk no anything like this.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20069748-504083.html

I don't understand this. Prosecuting people for racially motivated violence, especially a gang that has that goal in mind, is a good thing, no?

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Yes, good thing those upright cityfolk no anything like this.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20069748-504083.html

I don't understand this. Prosecuting people for racially motivated violence, especially a gang that has that goal in mind, is a good thing, no?

I think he's trying to point out city violence > than hillbillie violence. Which has kind of got the whole thread going in the wrong direction, imo.
That has no real relevence to how MGS feels, which was the OT. I'm personally ashamed of how people act around me, and i'm from here. It's
just sad.

Frazzled wrote:
Is this that giant mosque in Mufreesboro? There are like 20 people in Mufreesboro. How are they going to support a multimillion dollar mosque? I could see Memphis but Mufreesboro? Hopefully they took some surveys or something to see if its suffiicent population to support and its not a bust.

There's over 100,000 people living in Murfreeboro, and then there's the greater Nashville metropolitan area to consider.

Graveyman wrote:
People are against ILLEGAL immigrants. I've never known anyone that has had a problem with legal immigration.

Then you must not have met very many people, its a common position.

The Green Git wrote:
The general issue some in this country have with certain immigrant populations is they don't want to assimilate. They want to create little pools of their own country and culture here. Specifically, Islamic immigrants in increasing numbers throughout the world are calling for Sharia law in their new host countries. This is not met well by their host countries.

How terrible it must be to realize that other people have differing beliefs, and that those beliefs will cause them to want different things.

The Green Git wrote:
As for the separation of church and state, the exact portion of the constitution you are referring to prohibits Congress from establishing a state religion and from stopping others from their choice of religion. That's it.

Actually, no, that's incorrect. Congress cannot make a law "...respecting an establishment of religion..." interpreted broadly this can be taken to mean that Congress cannot give preference to one religion over another.

alarmingrick wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Yes, good thing those upright cityfolk no anything like this.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20069748-504083.html

I don't understand this. Prosecuting people for racially motivated violence, especially a gang that has that goal in mind, is a good thing, no?

I think he's trying to point out city violence > than hillbillie violence. Which has kind of got the whole thread going in the wrong direction, imo.
That has no real relevence to how MGS feels, which was the OT. I'm personally ashamed of how people act around me, and i'm from here. It's
just sad.

Exactly. This is the Los Angeles that I remember, not the "dude lets go surfing" TV bs.

dogma wrote:

Then you must not have met very many people, its a common position.

He's right mate, Its common.

Many people think that legal immigration is fine, but I don't because I think this country is too slack with it.

I think if your not particularly well educated or have a trade in a skill we need, you shouldn't be allowed in, and if your stupid and utterly unskilled, I don't care if your here legally, I don't think you should be.

Many people think like that, and I don't class myself as particularly right wing either! I just, hate being in debt personally, I always clear my credit cards and I'm not in any, so I like to think I could run a country similarly, and as a result I think charity begins at home, and I don't really care about starving people as long as I'm not paying for it.

Im a bit of a heartless prick I know, but its not an uncommon attitude.

Thankfully. This country would have gone the way of Iceland if it wasn't for smart heartless people!

@matty: What about stupid and utterly unskilled people that were born in the country?

Emperors Faithful wrote:@matty: What about stupid and utterly unskilled people that were born in the country?

Well yeah! I hate those white trash mother fethers as well, and if it was down to me I would forcibly sterilise them and make them work in a mine. But hey ho...

Thats not a retort to my statement is it?!

We have utterly unskilled stupid bastards. Im aware of it, sadly, were stuck with them, and we do our best to educate them and drag them out the gutter with free houses and dole money and free university places but they stay there and drink and smoke and never work and breed like rats and their children copy them and their grandchildren etc etc etc.

Such is life. The point im making is, we are stuck with OUR stupid unskilled bastards, why the hell do we want to IMPORT more?!!?

Because a change is as good as a rest?

I had an entertaining (in hindsight) expieriance while I was going to college. I used to shave my head clean with a razor and I had a goatee. This has the side effect of making me look like a white supremacist (which I'm not). I would get people yelling at me from crowds and whatnot. I can only feel sorry for anyone who judges another person because of some half baked idea that they stick to the way a person looks. There are morons everywhere you go in my expieriance. The only good thing we can do is make the best of our situation and hopefully they can learn from it.

The Foot wrote:I had an entertaining (in hindsight) expieriance while I was going to college. I used to shave my head clean with a razor and I had a goatee. This has the side effect of making me look like a white supremacist (which I'm not). I would get people yelling at me from crowds and whatnot. I can only feel sorry for anyone who judges another person because of some half baked idea that they stick to the way a person looks. There are morons everywhere you go in my expieriance. The only good thing we can do is make the best of our situation and hopefully they can learn from it.

See thats the problem with today's youth, no proper learning in our great culteral heritage. Others see a skinhead, whereas I more correctly see one of the great spiritual leaders of our time.

Frazzled wrote:

The Foot wrote:I had an entertaining (in hindsight) expieriance while I was going to college. I used to shave my head clean with a razor and I had a goatee. This has the side effect of making me look like a white supremacist (which I'm not). I would get people yelling at me from crowds and whatnot. I can only feel sorry for anyone who judges another person because of some half baked idea that they stick to the way a person looks. There are morons everywhere you go in my expieriance. The only good thing we can do is make the best of our situation and hopefully they can learn from it.

See thats the problem with today's youth, no proper learning in our great culteral heritage. Others see a skinhead, whereas I more correctly see one of the great spiritual leaders of our time.

Hail Ming!

That's part of the beauty of America, we have so many different thoughts and opinions. Sure this guy was probably, well actually he was a bigot, but he's free to say so. Just like people who don't think that way can argue against him.

You have to take the good with the bad, just like anywhere else.

Robin Williams wrote:We Americans, we're a simple people . . . but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities.