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That’s not really what I’m getting at though. As I said, it’s not GW’s responsibility to promote these games and – if I’m honest – they shouldn’t have to. That’s the publisher’s job, not GW’s.

My point though is that these other games could be used to promote their own core product. Having an article about the upcoming game in WD is all well and good, but it doesn’t ultimately serve GW. It might help the sales of the game, which indirectly will help GW – and GW certainly lose nothing by doing this – but there’s so much more that they could do.

I’ll use Dark Crusade as an example, as it was one of those things that was just crying out for a little bit of effort from GW:

At Dark Crusade’s core were the 7 different commanders – the Blood Raven Captain, Guard Commander, Eldar Farseer, Warboss Gorgutz, Eliphas the Inheritor, Commander O’Kais and the Necron Lord. Now GW could have just put an article about the game in WD, but that’s dull (and as I said, doesn’t help them that much), but imagine a limited edition boxed set with one of each of these models in there? Then put their rules into that month’s White Dwarf (and then later on the website). Put in a few scenarios into a ‘Dawn of War’ article in WD. Even have that month’s battle report be a match between the Blood Raven Captain and the menacing Warboss Gorgutz, playing one of the scenarios using the new models. That’s the kind’ve WD even I’d buy, and I’d buy the models even though I don’t have all of those armies. Collector’s would lap that up like crazy (a lot of us love Ltd. Ed models), and modellers would like the idea of a box filled with unique models (bit more exciting than another 10 Tac Marines).

Now do the same for the Ultramarine’s movie – a three-part scenario in WD using the characters and situations from the movie – plus a Ltd. Ed. Captain Whathisface available in store for that month only.

Now do it for Dawn of War II (I’d kill for that a model of that female Witch Hunter...)...

Now do it for Space Marine...

Now for Kill Team...

And so on.

It’s one thing to say “GW should promote another company’s game that just happens to be based on their IP”. It’s another actually cross-promote and use the game to further promote your own game via WD, the website and limited edition models.

Well he is wearing a Iron Halo and it would represent the shield i would think. Otherwise it seems like a fun, shoot em up chop em up game without the sitting behind cover and taking pot shots at the enemy.
Im just wondering what the camera will be like though
The camera is like the middle class, if your not controlling it is busy plotting your downfall! Think yawtze said it *cant spell his name*

nieto666 wrote:It looks like a pretty cool game. Almost has a Gears feel to it.

The first version of it that had a video leak a few years back was alot more Gears of War-ish than this one, to a ridiculous extent. I absolutely love Gears (I got the seriously achievement almost 3 times over) but I think this iteration better captures the combat. The video from before had bolt pistols somehow only *stunning* enemies that you then had to finish in a Gears-style chainsaw execution move. I definitely prefer the current mix of Gears shooting but Devil may cry close combat.

Darn netbook can't watch the video more than frame by frame...

RiTides wrote:Darn netbook can't watch the video more than frame by frame...

What netbook and what stats? I've been considering getting one for web browsing (a 1gig RAM atom acer netbook). If they can't even run non-HD video, I'll pass.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

My point though is that these other games could be used to promote their own core product.

I have noticed these missed opportunities over the years. GW has rarely reacted, and then usually very late to cross marketing opportunities. One example are the hero stats for Shas' Kais from Fire Warrior, but that was too little too late. GW cannot be blamed for that games failures but can be blamed for the failure to capitalise on the franchise crossovers.

Allowing for the momentos added to collectors edition games such as Tamriel coinage sold with Collectors editions of Oblivion, Pipboys etc it beggars belief why GW do not add LE custom miniatures for each collecters edition boxset. Unlike other companies the infrastructure for the gimic with the game is already in place and has a real value to it. All it takes to get someone into the hobby is to accompany the miniature with a painting guide on the game disk and a link to where the paints can be bought, straight to a tailor made page on the GW website. GW make enough LE marines that this new Captain Titus should have his own mini, better yet have one showing the new Finecast and complete with several weapon options usable in the game.
The Dawn of War Imperial Guard general with lightning claws deserved a figure too etc.
Needless to say all these miniatures should come Chapter Approved for any special rules or wargear they have, and for their respective armies, no delays no hassles just Chapter Approved stamp them from the outset. Yes its outside procedure, but that is what corporate cooperation is all about. The LE miniature will sell collectors edition copies and game producers would appreciate the support which can only help with regards to future projects. It shouldn't be too hard for GW to work out and balance a single character miniature, though from past record in this as in other things competence is in short supply.

The big problem is that GW thinks of computer games as free money in. It certainly is, but they have it in their heads that best results are achieved on near 100% income as profit, wheras a little spending of their own will bring in a healthy dividend.

Brother SRM wrote:Orks aren't as strong as a Space Marine because that wouldn't be as fun. It's more fun to cut down hordes of enemies punctuated by tougher, more equal enemies (Nobs, Chaos Marines) than it is to fight guys who just refuse to die. It doesn't feel badass to struggle with each and every enemy.

Not necessarily true
In Ninja gaiden Ryu always feels like a badass, despite the fact that even the weakest enemy has the potential to kill you if your not always on guard

Kanluwen wrote:
I know your point. However, what I want to know is what market does White Dwarf reach that E3 coverage doesn't?

Older veteran gamers who didn't grow up with the twitch games? I know a few that buy/collect GW stuff but don't play anything on a console and only do turn based stuff on computers (mainly historical battle games). Those types generally don't follow E3 coverage.

Orlanth wrote:The big problem is that GW thinks of computer games as free money in. It certainly is, but they have it in their heads that best results are achieved on near 100% income as profit, wheras a little spending of their own will bring in a healthy dividend.

That’s what it comes down to. These are no expenditure/no loss situations for them. They don’t have to do anything to get the agreed upon amount from whoever is using their IP – the typical focus on the short term/ignore the long term mentality that pervades all of GW that isn’t a satellite company (note how different FW and BL are to GW proper... it’s truly astonishing). Any sensible company with an inkling of business sense though would understand that they can get so much more than the agreed upon amount with just a little bit of effort.

Making a character model is not an out-there crazy concept. If they can do it once a year with Games Day and create a whole 2nd hand market, imagine what they could do with simultaneous miniature releases and WD support? The White Dwarf stuff is a wash as their writers were going to write something to fill those pages anyway, so might as well make it something people want to read, and then the model is a little expenditure for far more (potential) gain than they get from just sitting on their narrow-minded corrupt asses.

So this looks amazing. I cant wait to hope into this gore rage. I find it funny that the graphics in this look better than the movie

Heh. That's probably because they are.

It makes me sad though, I was really looking forward to that movie then it turned out to look like a really long cut scene from Final Fantasy 7

H.B.M.C. wrote:I love it how I said "He has regenerating shields! This is Halo" and everyone's response was "Would you rather have health packs?".

Health =/= Shields folks.

The way you get more health by getting stuck into combat may be artificial, but it's a good way of pushing the player into combat and is more Marine like. It's having regenerating shields as standard that annoys me. I hope that he had that because of a piece of wargear, and not just due to lazy design decisions on the part of the developers.

And, as an aside, to comment on what Yhatzee said a while back - what did health packs ever do to us? When was the collective decision made to replace health packs (which were unrealistic) with recharging health (which is also unrealistic).

Perkustin wrote:Oh and how come there is no mini with the special edition? A 'captain titus' with a heavy bolter and official rules anyone?
I think GW have yet again missed a trick marketing wise.

To GW: Next time have a voucher for £5-10 off AOBR (or whatever the new edition will be called) you will sell loads....

Yep. GW ultra-fails at cross promotion. There should have been minis for the commanders from Dark Crusade. There should have been a set for the Ultramarine's movie. There should be something for this. But, I guess when it comes to GW, if at first they don't suceed... fail and fail some more!

You have some very good ideas here, but why do I get the feeling you would have been unhappy even if they had come out with cross promotional figures? Doubtlessly there would be some unforgivable flaw in the price, design, etc...

Also, game looks surprisingly slick. Not (really) into shooters and I wasn't considering getting it until seeing it move.

This looks awesome! Definite purchase from this guy. I just have 1 question and one comment about some of the other posts. (Sorry for being a little late to the party.)

- (Comment) In the ork Codex it states that boys are mainly just a little taller than average humans and therefore would be on relative strength terms. It's Nobz that are huge and powerful like Space Marines. So the gameplay works for me.


-(Question) As far as the plasma gun firing in a "weird" lobbing way. Isn't this how a plasma gun would fire IRL? I mean it is a "ball" of plasma suspended in a magnetic field. Would lobbing not make more sense?

H.B.M.C. wrote:I love it how I said "He has regenerating shields! This is Halo" and everyone's response was "Would you rather have health packs?".

No, we said it was an extremely tenuous connection considering all the ways this is NOT like Halo. Both games have targeting reticles. OH GOD THIS IS HALO ALL OVER AGAIN.

You were blatantly incorrect, don't try to ignore what SRM said.

And, as an aside, to comment on what Yhatzee said a while back - what did health packs ever do to us? When was the collective decision made to replace health packs (which were unrealistic) with recharging health (which is also unrealistic).

Imperial Guard commanders often have gorget-mounted force fields, it's not a stretch to think Marines would have something like that in their armor - which might just be the in-game explanation given. When the character is shown wearing an Iron Halo there's a new Iron Halo-shaped emblem above the shields on the screen, so maybe there are ways to strengthen the in-built shield?

Never mind the talk about being "unrealistic" or otherwise when you're playing an 8-foot tall supersoldier who can spit acid and eat the brains of the anthropomorphic fungi to learn how they talk with Cockney accents.

Hmm an Ultramarine captain wearing the gold of the 2nd company...

Sicarius must either be dead or at THQ complaining about the shenanigans.

ImperialTard wrote:You have some very good ideas here, but why do I get the feeling you would have been unhappy even if they had come out with cross promotional figures? Doubtlessly there would be some unforgivable flaw in the price, design, etc...

Probably with the character's rules, but I don't really care about the rules. Limited edition models? I'm all over that. The rules bother me not. If they'd done a cross-promotion I'd've been over the moon at them showing some actual business sense. I don't need to find errors where there are none - GW often makes so many mistakes that I don't have to go looking for them - so no, I wouldn't've found a flaw in anything they did.

bhsman wrote:No, we said it was an extremely tenuous connection considering all the ways this is NOT like Halo. Both games have targeting reticles. OH GOD THIS IS HALO ALL OVER AGAIN.

Don't be obtuse. The recharging shield thing began with Halo and has been adopted by everything since (even Firewarrior... where it was oddly justifiable... anyway I digress...). I did like Resistance 1's way of doing it - four health 'bars', and each one would regenerate if it was partially wounded, but a full 'bar' that had been lost could only be healed by a medkit or something like that. It was a nice mix of the two ideas - a healthy (if you'll excuse the pun) middle ground.

bhsman wrote:Imperial Guard commanders often have gorget-mounted force fields, it's not a stretch to think Marines would have something like that in their armor - which might just be the in-game explanation given. When the character is shown wearing an Iron Halo there's a new Iron Halo-shaped emblem above the shields on the screen, so maybe there are ways to strengthen the in-built shield?

But Marines don't have shields/force fields (as standard). We know this. Now, of course, the Marine in the first clip may have a shield, and, in fact, given that he's a Captain he may even have a basic form of field as standard (making the Iron Halo an upgrade), in which case fine, I've obviously leapt to a conclusion and I'm quite capable of admitting that. I just don't want 'recharging shields' on my Marine without some justification outside of "every game does it these days".

bhsman wrote:Never mind the talk about being "unrealistic" or otherwise when you're playing an 8-foot tall supersoldier who can spit acid and eat the brains of the anthropomorphic fungi to learn how they talk with Cockney accents.

A real non-argument there bhsman. It's more a case of having something that's different to other games rather than just having a cop-out and using recharging shields 'cause everyone else does. I like the 'kill things = get more health' concept whcih is, as I said, as artificial as health packs, but meshes with the game. The recharge shield things (assuming that it's standard and not wargear based) just seems lazy to me.

Did I explain that clearly enough?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr.Church13 wrote:-(Question) As far as the plasma gun firing in a "weird" lobbing way. Isn't this how a plasma gun would fire IRL? I mean it is a "ball" of plasma suspended in a magnetic field. Would lobbing not make more sense?

Heh. "In real life". A blast of plasma fired from a gun would likely fly straight up, because it would be so much lighter than air it's not funny. And even if you could find a way to launch out from the barrel of the gun at any sort of speed, it would be akin to throwing a balloon at someone (we've all seen what happens when you throw a balloon). And all of this only comes about with the assumption that you can somehow create a magnetic field that is self-sustaining and will fly along with the plasma in side it.

To put it another way, never say "how it would work IRL" and "plasma guns" in the same sentence.

A loved sell-argument to parents is that "And of course painting and playing with friends is a LOT better that sitting in front of the computer all day long".

With this kind of statements I am not surprised that GW doesn´t advertise the Videogames at all.

Very long 18m interview with gameplay footage

I went to E3 yesterday (thanks work!) and made my first stop the Space Marine booth - which was actually a pretty decent looking Ultramarine drop pod, complete with rotating deathwind launcher. I was splitting my time waiting looking at that and the spokesmodels handing out scratcher-cards to win a free shirt.

Now, it was too damn noisy in there (both the pod and E3 in general) to hear much of the sound, but the game looked really good and played pretty well. Except...

My major complaint - the camera. Yup, it's always the camera in games like this. In a couple places where there was ample ceiling space for the camera to pull back to give you a better look at what you are doing, it would just flick about almost aimlessly and clip through your character and other enemies to try and find its place again.

This tended to happen most in corners, but not just room corners. At one point I was fighting against an ork nob with a shoota up on a higher L-shaped platform, but in an outside space. There would have been plenty of room for the camera to go upwards or back a bit to give you a better angle, but the camera seemed to be tethered at a fixed height and distance from the back of your character. The camera still managed to get all goofed up and boxed into that inside corner of the L-shaped platform where I wound up fighting the Nob.

This happened again in an inside space where I opened a drawbridge-like door to outside. There was a narrow walkway with a railing around it to one side of the door where I wound up fighting a more melee-oriented Nob. The camera got boxed in and I could hardly tell what was going on.

It's like the camera is a second character behind you, set to Follow. It seems to obey the same physics rules that your character does, so it needs a ground plane to move on and cannot move around obstacles.

I really hope they get the camera fixed, because if not I can just see this being a frustrating gaming experience.

I saw Kill Team there as well, which looked very fun, and am pretty sure I'll pick up. There was disappointingly NOTHING new for the 40K MMO game Dark Millenium, which was one of my big reasons for wanting to see E3 in the first place. There was just a small booth with a well-made 40k-looking statue and a video playing.

I was kind of hoping for a melee lock-on camera akin to Darksiders, but it looks like it is just like the God of War camera that floats above and near you.

I don't think I HAVEN'T hit a frustrating spot struggling with the camera in any of those games, hopefully they will smooth it out a bit before launch.

I guess if the camera is driving you nuts, just make sure you're shooting instead of trying to slice things up.

GoW and Batman AA managed fine without lock on, if the enemy attacks in hordes it is generally preferable not to have an obvious lock on, instead focus on the orientation of your character's attacks uising the left stick.

Indeed, what i liked especially about Batman AA was that, if you are fighting several enemies, you could fire off rapid fire hits at several enemies just by twitching the joystick (kick HIM, punch HIM, throw HIM etc etc).

you woudl think that in a swirlgin melee you woudl lash out at whomever rather than just lock in on eon body and let the other smack you around.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:Call it health, or whatever if it makes you feel better.

And apparently the Meltagun is a member of the Shotgun family.

It is a weapon with a 12 inch range. It would seem very clunky in the game if it did exactly what true meltaguns do, considering that this is a hack and slash game.

daedalus-templarius wrote:Very long 18m interview with gameplay footage

Think this settles your fears about regenerating health HBMC
The shield was from the Iron Halo and the regenerating health is just tied into the combat, as long as you kill it stays up, if you don't it drops rapidly from the damage you receive

Not a bad game mechanic I think you'd agree?

What chapter of Chaos Space Marine is that? It doesn't look like one which would summon Bloodletters, I'd say more along the lines of Horrors or daemonettes

I've heard them say Chaos Undivided before when referring to the CSM you fight, so it might not just be one particular chapter/warband.

I imagine they will do some more camera tweaking before the game actually releases, as they've said before they are trying very hard to get it absolutely right.

Blog post about Kill Team on G-W

There you go. Cross-promotion. Sorta. What about the Space Marine game, GW?

Considering Kill Team is supposed to release fairly soon, and Space Marine is scheduled for a bit later--I think that's why we're seeing Kill Team now.

Another gameplay segment with the game director

My major beef is the marines literally can roll at the drop of a hat...

Its like they have no weight.