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Dashofpepper wrote:Jon, something to consider...

Why not switch tables around? I was on Table #1 for 3-4 games in a row - no variance of terrain. It would be nice if you guys added table assignment to your matrix as well, so that folks can play on different tables.

@Walls: Table #1 always had judges at it, regardless of who was on it.

Justin,

This is something we have talked about and will do next year. This was the first year we ran with new scoring software which will allow us to scale in the future. That being said we limited a lot of the features on the software just in case things didn't work.

I just don't think they should have been allowed to play longer at all. I just don't see the correlation with allowing them to play and then saying "But next time your outta here buddy". Either they are slow playing and don't get to finish and should be warned. Or they weren't slow playing and don't need a warning. See what I'm saying?

Don't read me wrong. This was on my list to attend until work concerns kept me from it and it is on my list for next year. And from all indications this was a minor blip that's been blown out of proportion by the internet which happens too. Kudos on an otherwise well run event.

Prodigalson wrote:Jwolf, I would generally support a move downward in points to 1850 or so. I managed to finish 5/6 games in two thousand, but I tended to reserve a lot, and am a pretty quick player. My hand to hand with hydra gauntlets, re-rolls, sharnets are a little complicated, so that does slow things down as well. I also fire 45 or so splinter shots a turn, so the rolls to hit, rolls to wound and armor distribution on squads slows things down as well.

I'm not sure points down or time up or both are the answer, but I appreciate the feedback and you can be sure that after we've had a time to dig through all the round data and feedback from players we will be making some adjustments for 2012.

Great tournament run by a great group of guys. The judges were really helpful as well.

Hulksmash wrote:I just don't think they should have been allowed to play longer at all. I just don't see the correlation with allowing them to play and then saying "But next time your outta here buddy". Either they are slow playing and don't get to finish and should be warned. Or they weren't slow playing and don't need a warning. See what I'm saying?

Don't read me wrong. This was on my list to attend until work concerns kept me from it and it is on my list for next year. And from all indications this was a minor blip that's been blown out of proportion by the internet which happens too. Kudos on an otherwise well run event.

Hulk,

I see what you're saying. I'm going to take this out of the particular game and switch to two players who have now played more than once at WGC. Both guys get along great with other players, and usually leave the table with themselves and their opponents wearing big smiles. When these two play, suddenly the wheels come off and everyone is mad. I mean, red-faced and completely uncharacteristically mad. My point is that sometimes the interaction of two players who might otherwise be great players and/or great guys lines up and the game becomes a mess. There doesn't have to be any drama, any malice, or any bad behavior for this to occur, and it might not even happen the next time the two play. But definitely table 1 game 4 aligned to make a very odd game, and it was Darkwynn's call as chief judge to have the player's extend into the evening break, a call that I support and would support again, for table 1 or table 128 or any table in between. There is no sense having a game end on time because somehow the players got off to a rocky start early in the match, if we have the luxury of time to let them finish, which we did due to the end of the day and the patience of our scorekeepers.

And I 100% agree that we're talking about a minor blip in the scheme of things - how odd that such a thing would be blow out of proportion, but that's what the internet is for, eh?

Still, can anyone explain how they only got two turns done in 90 minutes with one army in reserve? Did they spend half the time on a smoke break?

His deployment took a while - shifting, changing, re-moving. I didn't track time, or note where we were at any particular point in time during the game - I *do* remember that I moved on flat out, but went too far forward, letting him get close enough to dump out some flamers and meltas on me. >< Tactical error on my part.

Holy gak. That's crazy. If deployment takes more than 10 minutes I call a judge.

First of all, I'd like to thank Jwolf and the crew for an amazing tournament.

In regards to the time allowance, I believe there should be the opportunity for the first tables to be able to finish a game to the point of a clear victor. If I recall correctly, the judges gave the whole first 5 tables the chance to finish there game out if they wanted (none did). I believe that there would have been way more complaining if the game would have ended on turn 3 at the time limit because of the lack of a full game, thus screwing over both table one players and the other top contenders.

Seeing Dash play for the first time really illustrated how the internetz can turn someone into a villain. Dash played at a normal pace, and seemed to be very nice and friendly, including inviting his opponents to dinner with him after the game. In fact, the group that dash played seemed to be the ones trying to get a unfriendly response from him, and I felt bad that he was not treated like a proper guest of Texas.

In the end, the tournament was won by an outstanding guy that deserved it. Congrats to all the winners.


-liquid

I am glad the tournament overall went well with minimal issues. The thing with Dash was perpetrated by some sites that are trying to get any sort of outrage at the expense of someone's rep.

Congratulations to all the winners

thehod wrote:I am glad the tournament overall went well with minimal issues. The thing with Dash was perpetrated by some sites that are trying to get any sort of outrage at the expense of someone's rep.

Congratulations to all the winners

Yeah because just random Internet sites are the only ones that ever had a problem with Dash's behavior. I love comments and sites that perpetrate outrage over outrage

I think I might be outraged with the outrage over the outrage about the outrage.

Though, to be fair, no one can out rage me.

hyv3mynd wrote:
Dash got the lowest sportsmanship score and several blogs reported on the drama during his 3.5 hour game during round 4. I believe he said he's not batrep'ing this event, but damn I would read that report.

Color me unsuprised he's not batreping them.

Does anyone know what the foot ork army looked like?

carmachu, might want to read the thread.

Dashofpepper wrote:

In terms of his most expensive HQ...is an Inquisitor really more expensive than a pimped out Cannoness? I had relayed that to Hulksmash Saturday night, and he didn't think so.

Yes. Depends. They both start at 45 points and go up depending on gear.


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Dashofpepper wrote:carmachu, might want to read the thread.

Thanks, I did. I comment as I read.

I thought wargamescon was great! The compeition there was crazy good, I ended up coming in like 16 or something like that losing to Alan (orks 2nd) and the witch hunter player (6th). I am just glad I got to play some of the best players in the country and was able to hold my own, I was even able to beat the guy that came in second last year and a ETC member, which I thought was pretty cool. However the best part about wargamescon was that out of the 10 players from Mississippi (representing The 19th Legion ) 7 of us made the top 20 and we won 2 out of the 4 events, Steve winning the mirror match and Sean winning the GT! Please check out the blog as Karl did an excellent job covering the event and will have/has pictures and interviews with Jwolf, Dash of Pepper, and Space Curves.

On to the controversy, I had no problem with the game extension as both guys were in 1st and 2nd place and the result of that game influence the winners bracket for the next day. So taking time to make sure that the game was played correctly was not that big of deal. The judges and the tournament organizer did an excellent job, hadez the judges were running knocking people over to answer any questions.

As for the lists at the top tables, there were no super duper list that was killing people, the guys at the top used unique list and played them extremely well.

Funny Note
I made this thread Nob Bikers like a week before wargamescon, and guess who beat me when I was on table 2 at the start of day 2? Alan, the ork player that use nob bikers and came in 2nd place.

Liquidice281 wrote:

Seeing Dash play for the first time really illustrated how the internetz can turn someone into a villain. Dash played at a normal pace, and seemed to be very nice and friendly, including inviting his opponents to dinner with him after the game. In fact, the group that dash played seemed to be the ones trying to get a unfriendly response from him, and I felt bad that he was not treated like a proper guest of Texas.

-liquid

I've made some good friends with some of the Texas crowd. The best part of my weekend (there were a lot of good parts) was burying the hatchet with Chris Carlile. I really liked him when I met him the first time, and was mortified at the change in him after the fated judge call at the Alamo. Hopefully I can buy him a beer the next time I see him.

Other highlights included seeing Marc Parker again, catching up with Paul Murphy, meeting some of the other top players whom I've read about but never met.

Interestingly, I had several players tell me Sunday morning that they had overheard different conversations about certain players and a group banding together to try "fixing" their games and slow-playing me to prevent me from winning because I had already "won enough" in Texas. I overheard a couple things myself that I wasn't supposed to - our hobby has more gossip and backstabbing than a highschool girl's locker room, but I ignore it.

And Tasty...there's a small subset of people who have a real issue with me; there are outliers to that subset that take issue with specific things (like the idea of moving then pivoting being illegal). I don't personally believe that a sideways pivot followed by a 1mm move with a DE raider counts as a 1.5" - 2" movement...but I always play to whatever the rules for an event are. That's tangental to the point though - which is that there is a small subset of people who have a real issue with me. The root cause is always the same. There's a larger subset of people who have "heard" about me in a negative light and choose to believe it. Your site is a disservice to the 40k community in how you present information. You have a chunk of readers who profess that I'm the worst thing to ever happen to the hobby, based solely on what you write.

But like I said - I ignore it. Once upon a time, I cared. I tried to defend, explain, correct....it isn't worth the effort. The sensationalist trash you write and the bashing you do on your fellow hobby-mates isn't worth more than a chuckle. But don't start believing your own hate-mongering.

Dash shut it up, and accept who you are, you are the villain of the 40k world. Everyone wants to beat you, embrace that, strike fear into peoples heart by constantly winning. People hear rumours and they say this and that but who cares you know the type of person you are and you are winning and that is all that matters. At the end of the day you are one of the best players in the country and you terrorize people by mention of name alone, so embrace your role as the villain and cause "good" chaos where ever you go!

What would have happened if one of the 2 players did NOT want extra time. How would it have been handled then. Let's say they took Hulk's stance that the end is the end and it's not fair for others.

Why be concern with would have happen?

I'm just looking for a understanding on what the judges were thinking. What if's are good at helping future events plan ahead.

Here are a few thoughts about War Games Con:
I enjoyed everything about Wargames Con except the drive home (car breakdown+flat tire).

The first year I did not go because I thought 2000 points in 2 hours was unreasonable. Then last year I took a small and elite chaos space marine army and I did not do so well because there were no KP missions, and it was all objective based missions. This year I took a small Grey Knight Terminator army and I finished all of my games about 30 minute early except for a game against Tyranids that we had to hustle to get to the bottom of turn #4 and Orks that barely got to the bottom of 5. There are armies out there that either have a ton of models, or throw a ton of dice and they just take longer to play. When you have to count out a ton of dice, roll them, (then a lot of times re-roll them) and then roll to wound (and sometimes re-roll those) and then distribute the wounds out among the squad, and then take the saves (and sometime re-roll those) and then multiply that by 6 units it takes a long time to play. I wonder how many of the horde/DE players finished their games.

It was nice to see Dash take a step up in class. There were a lot of heavy hitters at the WGC and he held his own.

I, on the other hand, did not do so well. I will post up my bat reps later in the week. I only have pictures though a quarter of the way through game #3 when I had a meltdown caused by my dice. Funny thing is that I was going to buy new dice before leaving, and I forgot to, so I asked JWolf if he will have a vender there selling dice, and they did, but they were the small white GW dice when I needed some blue dice. I knew my dice were plotting against me and they stabbed my in the back when I played Ben (Space Curves) and sabotaged me regularly through the weekend.

I believe their decision to let them play was in the best interest of the tournament. Their final overall score after that game would effect who would be in the winners bracket, so instead of having a controversial short game winner they decided to extend the game length so that there was a true winner and thus a true winners bracket.

So what were the placings?

Yeah aside from the final tables.

Anyone got the top 20 by codexes?

http://www.wargamescon.com/2011/07/warhammer-40k-grand-tournament.html#more

Don't know why they don't have codices listed; people are always curious.

By the way, I really liked the mirror match.

Although the armies were some-what underpowered, the use of Sicarious was nice because it let you do some personal tailoring.

Next year I will get in some practice with these “Space Marines” since this was the first time that I have ever played that codex.

I will beat you yet Ben Mohlie!!!!


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Mannahnin wrote:http://www.wargamescon.com/2011/07/warhammer-40k-grand-tournament.html#more

Don't know why they don't have codices listed; people are always curious.

Shawn Lowrey Mixed bag Dark Eldar
Alan Bajramovic Horde Orls
Ben Mohlie Vulcan Space Marines
Matthew Baugh
Jonathan Willingham Space Wolves
Joseph Cherry Mixed bag Grey Knights
Russell Adams Sisters of Battle
Casey Christopher
Paul Murphy Blood Angels
marc parker Battlewagon Orls
Justin Hilderbrandt Venom heavy Dark Eldar
Will Ferguson
Michael Strange Inquisition heavy Grey Knights
Sean Frackowiak
Chandler Lee
Steve Martino Stealer Shock Tyranids
Chad Knight
David Light
Sean Williams
Adam Cortez
Bradford Robinson
Jeremy Yates
Andy Graham
Leslie Donaldson
Kenny Boucher Bloodcrusher Demons
John Cook
Brian Ellis
Bryce Alexander
Hank Edley Strike Squad heavy Grey Knights
JR West
Brian Poole I forgot what Brain brought…Blood Angels?
John Green

I really wanna see this Sisters list.

Walls wrote:I really wanna see this Sisters list.

Hq
Inquisitor Lord Psychic Hood
3xWarrior meltagun
Rhino

Canooness Book of St.Lucius Cloak of St.Aspira Jump pack Melta bombs eviscerator

Troop
10x Battle Sisters flamer heavy flamer veteran sister book of st.lucius brazier of holy fire eviscerator rhino Extra av

10x Battle Sisters flamer heavy flamer veteran sister book of st.lucius brazier of holy fire eviscerator rhino Extra av

10x Battle Sisters 2xflamers veteran sister book of st.lucius brazier of holy fire eviscerator rhino extra av

10x Battle Sisters 2xflamers veteran sister book of st.lucius brazier of holy fire eviscerator rhino extra av

Fast Attack
5x Dominion Squad 3x Melta guns Rhino extra av

5x Dominion Squad 3x Melta guns Rhino extra av

Heavy Support
Exorcist

Exorcist

Exorcist

Brought to you by The 19th Legion!

I played the list and it was good the main problem I had was trying to eliminate the exorcist. The model was able to hide behind the rhinos and target almost everything with little to no return fire because the only thing you could see were the pipes, and I didnt know if the pipes counted as the turret (which you can target) or a vehicle gun barrel ( something you cannot target). Besides that the game was excellent he was able to Divide Guide his flamers and kill Mephiston and my assault terminators. I really havent had a chance to look at all the list I played and digest the tactics used against me, but one of the cool things Russel Adams was able to do with this list is choose to keep his units stubborn with the book of st.lucius for one turn, then turn it off and lose combat so he can flame you with another unit.

Yeah I'm not so sure the sisters will keep the book, which is one of the VERY main things that makes them so competitive. They tend to lose close combats they get into, even if they can create 3+ invul saves to stall. That and being I3 without ATSKNF means they'd get chased down a lot, too, if they didn't have the option to be stubborn. We'll see what the new WD codex brings.


As for the tournament I did have a BLAST and had lots of great games [even one against my own WIFE, how cruel is that?], but I thought dice down should have been dice F'ing DOWN, because the tournament packet on the internet said there would be NO exceptions. I'm fine with letting table 1 play on, maybe even the top few tables - but specify that in the tournament write-up so people know what to expect. Nobody wants to give up 1st place and think "if only I could have finished that turn" or even "if only he'd rolled those seventeen armor saves on that one model that kept me from winning". These tables decide the tournament and should be played out.

But if you advertise dice down as dice down, it should be so. I went from a primary win, secondary tie, tertiary win to a primary loss, secondary tie and tertiary loss because dice-down was not enforced on my table either, and we were made to play out the last turn. With only slightly over a minute left I allowed him to start his turn instead of saying "we won't be able to finish both, so it's over", thinking there wasn't enough time for anything significant to happen. One shooting phase later, everything was different.

My opinion is that 2 hours is not enough for the game. There was very little time between matches [honestly, a good thing] but that meant lots of tables didn't even have their opponents present until about 10 minutes in. Between packing up from the previous game [which went RIGHT to the time limit almost every time], finding out my standing, going back to grab my army, moving to my table amidst the FLURRY of others doing the same, exchanging army lists, reading the scenario....

Almost all of my games were having the 30 minutes have passed warning before the second half of the first turn had even started. I'm not a slow player, and I'm a tournament veteran, and time has NEVER been an issue for me except for this tournament. I'd much rather 6 games at 2.5 hours than 7 at 2 each, and I'm comfortable with the 2k limit, rather then lowering it to 1850.


But again, all in all a very fun tournament and for the post a few above mine, I'm Brian Ellis, I finished 27th, and I played counts-as Slaaneshi Blood Angels [DoA with predator support].