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A big thanks out to the WargamesCon crew for putting on a great event. I was glad to finally after a few years of attempting to get down there make it!

Additionally, thanks to all my opponents over the weekend. Allan it was great to finally play a game after all these years. I went into the weekend without a whole lot of expectations. I do not get an opportunity to play like I once did. It showed with some costly mistakes, and it definitely took a while to knock all the rust off my game. Making the cut to Sunday was an unexpected bonus to just getting in some games and drinking beer with some long time friends.

-Hank

Updated the list with what I could remember...


Shawn Lowrey Mixed bag Dark Eldar
Alan Bajramovic Horde Orls
Ben Mohlie Vulcan Space Marines
Matthew Baugh – Imperial Guard
Jonathan Willingham Space Wolves
Joseph Cherry Mixed bag Grey Knights
Russell Adams Sisters of Battle
Casey Christopher
Paul Murphy Blood Angels
marc parker - Battlewagon Orks
Justin Hilderbrandt - Venom heavy Dark Eldar
Will Ferguson – Space Wolves
Michael Strange - Inquisition heavy Grey Knights
Sean Frackowiak
Chandler Lee
Steve Martino Stealer Shock Tyranids
Chad Knight
David Light
Sean Williams
Adam Cortez – Space Marines
Bradford Robinson
Jeremy Yates
Andy Graham
Leslie Donaldson
Kenny Boucher Bloodcrusher Demons
John Cook
Brian Ellis
Bryce Alexander - Imperial Guard
Hank Edley - Strike Squad heavy Grey Knights
JR West - Orks
Brian Poole – Blood Angels
John Green

If I can fill in a bit on your list from what I remember:

Sean Williams: Space Wolves (razorfang spam)
David Light: Blood Angels (Predator/Razor spam)
Adam Cortez: Khan/Cassius Vanilla Marines
John Cook: Chaos Marines (9x Obliterators, 2x Plague Marines, 2x Undivided, 2x DPs)
John Green: Scatterlaser heavy Mechdar

Just helping with the list a bit.

Chandler Lee - Grey Knights (Strike Squads and Paladin Unit)
David Light - Blood Angels (Mech)
Chad Knight - Blood Angels (Mech and Mephiston)

Chandler and I had an awesome game in the 7th round on table 7, which was a blast, it was the last round of the day and neither of us were in the runner so we just had a blast. Chad beat my face in round 3 I believe. I couldn't get to Mephiston early enough and he went on a reunion tour of my army, eating 3 squads of Grey Hunters, my poor Run Priest who I needed to shut him down ran off the board round 2 with a failed leadership test *note to self one auto cannon dreadnought is all you need to take out a Rune Priest and Long Fang Squad.

muwhe wrote:A big thanks out to the WargamesCon crew for putting on a great event. I was glad to finally after a few years of attempting to get down there make it!

Additionally, thanks to all my opponents over the weekend. Allan it was great to finally play a game after all these years. I went into the weekend without a whole lot of expectations. I do not get an opportunity to play like I once did. It showed with some costly mistakes, and it definitely took a while to knock all the rust off my game. Making the cut to Sunday was an unexpected bonus to just getting in some games and drinking beer with some long time friends.

-Hank

It was nice to see you play for once

I had a fun game with you even though your storm raven would not die! I ended up pushing you into the championship bracket while I swam in the kiddy pool. I know how to play against Grey Knights now. Grey Knight-on-Grey knight games are brutal because of psych out grenades.

Updated list:
Shawn Lowrey Mixed bag Dark Eldar
Alan Bajramovic Horde Orls
Ben Mohlie Vulcan Space Marines
Matthew Baugh – Imperial Guard
Jonathan Willingham Space Wolves
Joseph Cherry Mixed bag Grey Knights
Russell Adams Sisters of Battle
Casey Christopher
Paul Murphy Blood Angels
marc parker - Battlewagon Orks
Justin Hilderbrandt - Venom heavy Dark Eldar
Will Ferguson – Space Wolves
Michael Strange - Inquisition heavy Grey Knights
Sean Frackowiak
Chandler Lee Grey Knights (Strike Squads and Paladin Unit)
Steve Martino Stealer Shock Tyranids
Chad Knight Blood Angels (Mech and Mephiston)
David Light Blood Angels (Predator/Razor spam)
Sean Williams Space Wolves (razorfang spam)
Adam Cortez – Khan/Cassius Vanilla Marines
Bradford Robinson
Jeremy Yates
Andy Graham
Leslie Donaldson
Kenny Boucher Bloodcrusher Demons
John Cook Chaos Marines (9x Obliterators, 2x Plague Marines, 2x Undivided, 2x DPs)
Brian Ellis
Bryce Alexander - Imperial Guard
Hank Edley - Strike Squad heavy Grey Knights
JR West - Orks
Brian Poole – Blood Angels
John Green Scatterlaser heavy Mechdar

What was the size of the 40k field (approximate is fine)?

Just curious, as I'm not too familiar with wargamescon! Congrats to the winners and everyone involved, maybe one of these years I'll fly down!

Inquisitor_Dunn wrote:What would have happened if one of the 2 players did NOT want extra time. How would it have been handled then. Let's say they took Hulk's stance that the end is the end and it's not fair for others.

This exact thing did happen, as one guy (Cheezeburger) was happy to complain about. He was furious that Dash and his opponent got to keep playing, when his game ended. But once you got the story out of him, you found out he asked a judge for extra time, the judge asked his opponent if he would like to play another turn, and his opponent said no (because he was winning, and would have gone to a draw or loss). So, I don't blame CB's opponent at all for doing the smart thing and ending the game per the tournament rules.

Personally, I had a great time. I went 3-3-1, placed 36th in the RTT, which I think makes 60th overall. I picked up 5 "Great" ratings for sportsmanship, which I'm really happy about, and am looking forward to going again next year.

I do feel that the time limit is too restrictive. I'm playing a Kan Wall with 119 models on the table, and even plopping stuff down as fast as I can, my setup was running around 12-15 minutes. I only had one game not go to completion, however, so I feel I played quickly enough once things got going. That one game was against another ork army with a large model count.

I met a bunch of great people, had a really good time, and definately feel like I got my money's worth out of it.

I dream of running a horde ork army (6x 30 boyz, etc), but I don't see it happening in the current tournament environment. It just takes too long to move that much stuff.

*edit* This is Alexander Williams, if anyone was curious.

Spellbound wrote:
But if you advertise dice down as dice down, it should be so. I went from a primary win, secondary tie, tertiary win to a primary loss, secondary tie and tertiary loss because dice-down was not enforced on my table either, and we were made to play out the last turn. With only slightly over a minute left I allowed him to start his turn instead of saying "we won't be able to finish both, so it's over", thinking there wasn't enough time for anything significant to happen. One shooting phase later, everything was different.

Everyone should finish the game turn and you should not have it so that one player gets an extra player turn. If you are saying that you started a new game turn with one minute left that is wrong.

No, I let HIM start a player turn with a minute left. And when dice down was called no judge asked me if I wanted to continue like in josh's game, he just said "play it out". I think, though, he may have come into it thinking the man that asked was the bottom of the turn, and not that he had just started it.

Thus, to avoid this in the future, the games should be 2.5 hours and dice down be undisputable. If they want table 1 to have extra time habitually, state that in the tournament writeup.

Yeah, I have to agree.

What were the scores of the two people directly below the people at table one? Did not enforcing "dice down" screw them out of a better placing?

A couple more I can speak for:

Bradford Robinson - Blood Angels
Brian Ellis - Blood Angels (of Slaanesh?)

Leslie Donaldson had blood angels with 3 units of vanguard. Impressive he made it as far as he did.

Does anyone know the winning Dark Eldar list? It looked extremely unconventional, Id really like to know what it was.

The field was in the high 140s, I can't remember the exact number but callin 150 is probably fair.

Dashofpepper wrote:If I can fill in a bit on your list from what I remember:

Sean Williams: Space Wolves (razorfang spam)
David Light: Blood Angels (Predator/Razor spam)
Adam Cortez: Khan/Cassius Vanilla Marines
John Cook: Chaos Marines (9x Obliterators, 2x Plague Marines, 2x Undivided, 2x DPs)
John Green: Scatterlaser heavy Mechdar

Hi, Sean Williams here, I was running mech Blood Angels w/Mephiston. I believe Dash mixed up my list with a previous list that I ran at a local tourney.

Any idea what the mixed bag dark eldar that took it out looked like?
I've been helping a friend with various DE lists recently, and am curious how off the mark we were :>

Here is a link to the DE list that got overall

http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/WargamesCon-Shawn-Lowrey-Best-Overall-Dark-Eldar.pdf

Never a dull moment at these bigger games.

Looking at the partial top 20, Orks did mighty fine again... I dont know why some people think Orks is bad, I see the codex as atleast tier1, and not to mention 4 Ork lists made it to the final 16 at Adepticon.

I am not surprised seeing mostly BA, DE, Orks, GK, IG and SW in the top 20. Although Salamander are still kicking butt like a tier1 list. I doubt no matter how skilled a player is, if he/she plays a weak codex like Tau/Necron they will get hampered severly sooner or later especially at a major tournament. The competitions are just too great and these tier3 codexes are just too unforgiving even on minor mistakes.

Yes, I ran Slaaneshi Blood Angels for counts-as.

Is there a source where we can see what more of the lists were? There are several i would love to have a look at. I have read that a daemon player did pretty well with a khorne themed list. Id also love to see the ork lists as well.

jwolf wrote:
We are considering both change of point value and time limits for next year. With the improvements we have in scorekeeping and pairings (thanks, real genius!) our turnaround time for pairings has dropped from ~15 minutes to <2 seconds, so we will have more latitude for getting in that final turn as well.

Yeah the GK and DE have pretty high volume shooting now. I was thinking that it would all work out alot better with just 15 more minutes per round. If pairing takes literally 2 seconds then how about just do 140 or 145 minutes and then the next round in 10 or 5. If the max is 2 hours then even I who refuse to play anything but 2k would be willing to play something as low as 1750. Of course this would be unpopular but it would be a good idea if time couldn't be found.

Things I want just a little more time for:

1) I just want the time to relax. I did rush a bit here and there afraid games would end on time.

2) Chat just a little bit. I didn't engage my opponents in any conversation that wasn't pertinent to the game state moving forward.

3) I had one game end on time at the bottom of 5. We had 10 minutes left, my opponent was on their last legs and he really didn't want to start a new turn. If I had time I would have gotten a 30 instead of a 17(wouldn't have saved me, I shacked up with quite a few pooches at WGC). I haven't had a game end on time in a very long time.

A suggestion on RGL. I really like turn 6 RGL, roll 4+ for 7. It does the same thing as GW RGL but as someone who has had countless games end on turn 5 at major events and had to look longingly at a clock with 30 or more minutes on it then back at a table with so much fewer models then when the game started, the GW RGL sucks. Mike Walsh has been doing it at tournaments at his store and he says everyone loves it.

Blackmoor wrote:
Sean Frackowiak - Grey Knights
John Cook Chaos Marines (9x Obliterators, 2x Plague Marines, 2x Undivided, 2x DPs)- actually was Imperial Guard

I have to agree with Shinkaze above.

Random game length ending on turn 5 is crap. It is an unfortunate rule that GW has saddled us with.

hyv3mynd wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Internet loudmouths, for the most part, have a distinct lack of real-world performance to back up their words. When you meet them and play against them, you tend to notice that you know quite a few other players as good or better who aren't obnoxious about it.

+1

Then we've got guys like Ben Mohlie who also contributes to the blogosphere without insulting people, gives solid advice, and produces results on the tournament circuit. I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with him, if you arent he: Lead the ETC American Team to 5th overall their first time at the event personally representing the best results on the team, took 3rd overall at DaBoyz GT 2010, 1st overall at Boston Brawl last week, 2nd best general at ATC in May, and now in the top 3 again. If you haven't met him, the guy is always smiling and laughing. A genuine nice guy.

It's also interesting to me that Ben and John W., both American ETC members scored the second highest in sportsmanship.

Dash got the lowest sportsmanship score and several blogs reported on the drama during his 3.5 hour game during round 4. I believe he said he's not batrep'ing this event, but damn I would read that report.

Looks like a good event allthough I would have like to see a bigger spread in painting and sportsmanship. Painting from 24-29 hardly makes it even worth including.

Ben might just be the nicest guy on the planet to completely beat your face in on the table and make you walk away feeling ok, he is just that good.

Some friends and I where trying to help one of our local stores get going after failed ownership ran things into the ground. Grimwulfe (slated to play Dash at NOVA at the whiskey challenge) reached out to several area gaming clubs and players to come help us kick things off with a solid 2k event. Ben and some friends came and gave great credibility to an already tough field in the SE New England tournament scene. Ben was on table one in round three against Jeff H from Da'boyz and Ben won and was as gracious and thankful of a 40k player as I ever met.

A great guy who I personally will never be surprised to see win.

Monster Rain wrote:Yeah, I have to agree.

What were the scores of the two people directly below the people at table one? Did not enforcing "dice down" screw them out of a better placing?

The answer is no. They played a full game of 40k and who won, won.

Updated list:

Shawn Lowrey -Mixed bag Dark Eldar
Alan Bajramovic -Horde Orls
Ben Mohlie -Vulcan Space Marines
Matthew Baugh – Imperial Guard
Jonathan Willingham -Space Wolves
Joseph Cherry -Mixed bag Grey Knights
Russell Adams -Sisters of Battle
Casey Christopher
Paul Murphy -Blood Angels
marc parker - Battlewagon Orks
Justin Hilderbrandt - Venom heavy Dark Eldar
Will Ferguson – Space Wolves
Michael Strange - Inquisition heavy Grey Knights
Sean Frackowiak -Grey Knights
Chandler Lee -Grey Knights (Strike Squads and Paladin Unit)
Steve Martino -Stealer Shock Tyranids
Chad Knight -Blood Angels (Mech and Mephiston)
David Light -Blood Angels (Predator/Razor spam)
Sean Williams -Blood Angels w/Mephiston
Adam Cortez – Khan/Cassius Vanilla Marines
Bradford Robinson -Blood Angels
Jeremy Yates
Andy Graham
Leslie Donaldson -Blood angels with 3 units of vanguard
Kenny Boucher -Bloodcrusher Demons
John Cook -Imperial Guard
Brian Ellis -Blood Angels
Bryce Alexander - Imperial Guard
Hank Edley - Strike Squad heavy Grey Knights
JR West - Orks
Brian Poole – Blood Angels
John Green -Scatterlaser heavy Mechdar

A major concern with giving extra time (in this case alot of extra time) is that people have real lives they need to get back to. Work and school pick up monday morning. Planes need to be caught and night-time roadtrips back home are planned on a reasonable end time.
Now you've just added 2 hours delay into the mix, especially for someone who may be near enough to the top that they may be in the running for something or those who may not want to leave until all the awards are presented and applause given.

2hrs at 2k points. That can be a tough limit even for 2 mech armies. Try either 2 hrs at 1750 points or 2.5 hrs at 2k.

As for all the time wasted on arguing rules...this was the top table. Your trying to tell us the 2 top players didn't know the rules? Or couldn't work them out in a timely manner? And did this "unfamiliarity with the rules" have any effects on the previous games (like creating a tactical advantage that gave them a win when they normally would have lost or drawn)?

If it was that much of a cluster (especially due to the players arguing) time should have been called, give them both a draw score (or even a DQ score of 0), pull them aside and tell them to act like grownups the next time.

Blackmoor wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Yeah, I have to agree.

What were the scores of the two people directly below the people at table one? Did not enforcing "dice down" screw them out of a better placing?

The answer is no. They played a full game of 40k and who won, won.

They didn't do it in the allotted time, though, like everybody else did. Or if other people didn't finish, they didn't get extra time. I just think extending the time for one table is going to be viewed as unfair, particularly when it is only done because of constant rules disputes. I've always been under the impression that being able to finish you games under the time limit was part of being a tournament player.

dkellyj wrote:

As for all the time wasted on arguing rules...this was the top table. Your trying to tell us the 2 top players didn't know the rules? Or couldn't work them out in a timely manner? And did this "unfamiliarity with the rules" have any effects on the previous games (like creating a tactical advantage that gave them a win when they normally would have lost or drawn)?

As I've said repeatedly now, there *wasn't* a bunch of rules arguments on the top table.

Dashofpepper wrote:

dkellyj wrote:

As for all the time wasted on arguing rules...this was the top table. Your trying to tell us the 2 top players didn't know the rules? Or couldn't work them out in a timely manner? And did this "unfamiliarity with the rules" have any effects on the previous games (like creating a tactical advantage that gave them a win when they normally would have lost or drawn)?

As I've said repeatedly now, there *wasn't* a bunch of rules arguments on the top table.

Darkwynn said that there was.

Darkwynn wrote:I was the head judge and I made the call for the hour extension on the game. It was simple players in the hour and half-finished only two turns and one of them held their whole army in reserve. With all the rules issues and disputes between the players I intervened. As stated our duty is to make sure games move at a pace where they can be finished. I sat at the table after making the decision and they finish the rest of their turns under an hour as I had the final say in any rules arguments or discussions. Afterwards I gave them a very clear and final warning. Letting them know this will not happen again and if it does I will be removing them from the tournament regardless.

Actually, having re-read this post I withdraw my criticism of allowing the time extension. The guy was the judge, he made a call.

Monster Rain wrote:

Darkwynn said that there was.

There was always a judge on table #1, and a couple more floating around the top row - so instead of the normal cover resolutions, etc...we always had a judge call. As far as rules disputes, we didn't have any.

There tended to be a lot of disrespect for the judges. I had a friend call a judge over for an LOS ruling. He got down and made the call.....and my friend's opponent argued with him! "No man, no way, it's less than half, no cover...."

I thought "really? Argue with the judge?"

Dashofpepper wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Darkwynn said that there was.

There was always a judge on table #1, and a couple more floating around the top row - so instead of the normal cover resolutions, etc...we always had a judge call. As far as rules disputes, we didn't have any.

Darkwynn wrote:I was the head judge and I made the call for the hour extension on the game. It was simple players in the hour and half-finished only two turns and one of them held their whole army in reserve. With all the rules issues and disputes between the players I intervened.

I'll leave it alone now, I just want to make sure to point out the discrepancy here. It would appear that someone is fibbing.