Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

3 units of Tankbustas. Don't always take a Powerklaw, or tankhammers. After all, you still have Tankbusta Bombs. Tankhammas are only really needed on Monoliths.

Why would you ever want to field that? That's 720 points worth of models which can't even hold their own in close combat and will be shot to death within two turns. Seriously, rather get Flash Gits.

overkill76 wrote:Hi everyone,

wanted to put thought to "paper" and say that I really enjoyed the analysis of Ork units provided by the TS.

Tactics articles are by nature, highly subjective and depends on a whole host of variables that cannot be taken conclusively. Many cutting edge lists need certain pre-conditions to perform optimally and the TS was sharing war stories of his own experiences.

I highly doubt anyone would think his words are gospel and will take what they read with a pinch of salt. It did succeed in getting me thinking about how I can tweak my approach to playing my Orks and mix things up.

From that perspective, I think the TS is getting way too much heat for his hard work. We are playing with toy soldiers for fun in any case so let's keep our minds open and our egos checked.

Cheers!

Vick

Thanks Vick.

I am glad to see someone understands.

Jidmah wrote: Tank bustas will easily die to small arms fire, need a transport and usually can't shoot marine equivalents. You also lose the ability of fielding one unit of burnaz/kommandos/lootaz, with lootaz actually being better if you want to destroy transports. In exchange for all this, you gain the the ability to destroy any vehicle in close combat, which gets better if they ride a vehicle with boarding planks.

Those buggies can always shoot two units, tankbustas only once per game, they are immune to leadership issues and can be used to block/screen stuff. The don't need a transport and can move 12" and still shoot or move 18" flat out. You don't lose anything but a potential second suicide kopta.

And.....buggies die if you sneeze at them with anything higher then S5, also have to deal with the squadron rules(immobilzation means goodbye) and are open topped. Lets not sugar coat buggies now, if your going to list the shortcomings tankbusters, lets not leave out buggies by only listing their strengths....

I still have to launch into your tactica... but the following made me know it was worth my time:

Take Zogwort and a SAG, and your army turns into the comic relief! Mega Nobz clumsily clanking forward, Storm Boyz falling out of the sky, Zzap guns microwaving grots in the back field, it becomes more like a 3 Stooges episode than a supreme fighting force. This is my favorite army to play, but I would never take it to a tournament.

I love this kind of army!

On to the tactica!

carmachu wrote:

Jidmah wrote: Tank bustas will easily die to small arms fire, need a transport and usually can't shoot marine equivalents. You also lose the ability of fielding one unit of burnaz/kommandos/lootaz, with lootaz actually being better if you want to destroy transports. In exchange for all this, you gain the the ability to destroy any vehicle in close combat, which gets better if they ride a vehicle with boarding planks.

Those buggies can always shoot two units, tankbustas only once per game, they are immune to leadership issues and can be used to block/screen stuff. The don't need a transport and can move 12" and still shoot or move 18" flat out. You don't lose anything but a potential second suicide kopta.

And.....buggies die if you sneeze at them with anything higher then S5, also have to deal with the squadron rules(immobilzation means goodbye) and are open topped. Lets not sugar coat buggies now, if your going to list the shortcomings tankbusters, lets not leave out buggies by only listing their strengths....

Agreed to a point. I still say you guys shouldnt/cant compare tankbustas to rokkit buggies, they are used in completely different ways.
TankBustas are used to piss out rokkits en mass, are GREAT anti-MC good for ID/downing MEQs and popping transports.
Rokkit buggies are used in squadrons to USE the squadron rules. You line them infront of important units to grant those units a 4+ cover save when they are shot at. You use them to zip up and block areas of the board as well as take shots, they are cheap as hell, so when you force your opponent to deal with them instead of continue to ignore them, you dont mind because they cost so little.

Yes both units have weaknesses and shortcommings, but ONCE MORE folks, they are used for different things. Stop looking at them like "oh yea, well this one uses THIS many rokkits so there!" Its not like that.



Also Id like to note, that I would LOVE to spam the hell out of FlashGits, 3 units of 10 all with the painboy/more dakka/shootier. Yes sir, run them in a phalanx type of set up so that 2 units should be able to shoot at the same target and youll be smoking troops like crazy. It would be a blast. Im actually slowly working on that happening, but it takes time and muneh!

Tankbustas are also good at controlling the board. Your opponent will keep all of his vehicles outside of the 30" bubble, and make your bustas shoot at nothing. They may think that they are winning in that situation, when in reallity they are allowing you to control a huge swath of the board.

It even works with LandRaiders. After all, if even a couple of those Rokkits hit, there's a chance they'll get a glance- meaning that then there's a good chance they may stop it from moving, which could potentially leave it vulnurable to be assaulted...

Why potentially? I thought Tankhammers were made for smashing landraiders

Jidmah wrote:Why potentially? I thought Tankhammers were made for smashing landraiders

I beleive he's talking about regular rokkit launchas.

I know, but landraiders are always vulnerable to tank bustas, the rokkits immobilizing before it is just a nice bonus.

Still wouldn't ever field them without a vehicle. They are too easy to kill without one, and it's much harder to stay out of their assault range if the have a ride. Unless facing a blender-tron they can even kill most dreads in CC.

I'm not sure where the voice of reason went in this thread, but are you guys really all using tankbustas and buggies in your tournament lists? O are you just busting Soladado's balls for writing about stuff he may or may not know about?

Buggies? Of course. They are probably one of our most efficient units. Tank bustas? Rarely, but sometimes I do. In a battlewagon of course.

Don't play many tournies, but I've been fielding Tankbustas in my list since I got enough Rokkits to make a legal squad. I don't run Lootas (don't like being stationary, even with the huge range) so my Tankbustas are my ranged Anti-tank. That, and there's a lot of Land Raiders where I play.

Dok wrote:I'm not sure where the voice of reason went in this thread, but are you guys really all using tankbustas and buggies in your tournament lists? O are you just busting Soladado's balls for writing about stuff he may or may not know about?

This mostly spawned from the fact that he basically said they were crap to use. And the argument just snowballed from there

And KingCracker and I seem to be the defenders of the Orky Underdogs here- we've already managed to get Tankbustas a little more attention, and now we're working on Flash Gitz.

Damn skippy! Sadly though, the only way that could even remotely happen is if we took a FlashGitz horde to a tourny and DIDNT place last. I think even 2nd to last would be better for our cause

Hey, I know a player who used to play in my local tourneys (at my FLGS) who had Gitz as a core of their army- used to actually place, I believe!

I think one of the problems is that the Orky meta's started to rely too much on Heavy Support choices, either from Battlewagon transports for Boyz/Burnas, to Kanz for a kan wall, and most lists you see around are pretty heavily based on one of those two concepts. Green Tide, Bikers, etc. don't use the HS as much, but then, they don't really have a place for the Gitz in their play style.

There's actually a 'style' of army that seems to be bashed a lot, that used to actually have a name (found it on The Waaagh!!), called GorkaMorka; the classic "hammer and anvil" style, where you have a fast portion of your army that flanks or pincers, and a slower army core that closes like the jaw of a trap- I think Gitz could actually work well in that sort of list, using Trukkboyz, Warbikers (both Nobs and otherwise), or even Buggies or large, shenaniganized Kopta skwadrons as the outflankers.

Im still working on my Gits army idea, but I think my rokkit buggy "wall" idea would work nice for a Gitz spam. Not only would they provide that 4+ cover for the pricey FlashGits, but also would be spamming rokkits that are TL. Hmm...that might work nicely.

I don't know- maybe have some Burnas in there as well for anti- horde? Or you gonna go all Gunline and take Tankbustas too?

Flash Gitz are still way to expensive.

If you give them Blasta then they have a 33% chance to hit a 50% chance to miss and a 27% chance to wound your own dude.

Painboy? You lose your Snazzgun, worth FNP? Doesnt seem like it. Badrukk? If you take Badrukk then you need a painboy. then wtf has happened to the price? 255 points without cyborks or gun upgrades for 3 Gitz, a painboy, and Baddrukk. You could have 15 lootas for that, and I am sure that 15 lootas will outperform the Gitz, and they cannabalize their ability to take transports. It seems like they might be decent in a Shooty Battlewagon, but they are from the same slot. Steal the Nobs Battle wagon for a 2nd mobile firing platform? Seems all to silly to me and in no way "competitive."

Buggies are playable, I agree, but this was talking about elites.

I feel this horse has been beaten dead. I appreciate all of the comments and feedback and I hope you will all jump in on my next article, Troops and Fast Attack.

Hmm... Hold on there, Soldado. You might have something there.

What about taking 3 mobs of min, bare Nobz, just for the DT Battlewagons? Use the Nobz (or maybe Meganobz, if you want to splurge) as Objective campers (a squad or two enough away to act as counter-charge units) and let the Gitz take the tooled up Battlewagons?

Well firstly, Badrukk is FAR to pricey for what he brings to the table. Anyone that has actually play tested Gits enough with him and without him will tell you that. Same with Blastas upgrade. Never EVER take blastas. Sure its tempting, but really it only just bites you in the ass. If Gits had BS3 then maybe the risk would be worth it because youd get more shots out,but being BS2, nope not worth it. And yes a Painboy. 9 Flashgits tuned with more dakka/shootier gives you 18 str6 shots. Thats plenty to bring the hurting to any MEQs army out there.

The Painboy is for FNP, it makes them alot more survivable when they are assault or if you shoot down a unit enough to charge them into oblivion. Remeber that Gits ARE nobz, so they are going to be good in assaults anyways, and would you ever take nobz without a Painboy? Of course not. As far as the cybork goes, that depends on who/what your fighting and the game points. If its a higher point match then I could see it, but normally I leave it off as thats 50pts on the unit just cause.

Now taking Gits in any vehicle would be a smart move if you could pull them from somewhere, specially a BW. Im not sure if taking nobz/meganobz just to steal their wagons would be a good idea, then youd have that whole mixed/matched army build going on and any competitive Ork player will tell you thats not smart. If I did that, then the Gits would be moving fast and the rest of the army, your nobz included, will be on foot, so it would be a half foot,half mech and that loses you the synergy you want in a competitive build.

So Im currently thinking on my Gits horde, that it would be 3ish x20 shoota boyz mobs maybe another 1 or 2 depending on size of game, 3 units of 9 FlashGits + Painboy, 3 units of Rokkitbuggies mainly for screening units as well as dumping rokkits onto things, and the HQ Not fully sure yet. Possibly 2 KFF/BigMeks mainly for the huge area of 5+ cover saves. Something along those lines is what Im tossing around in my mind, maybe take 2 Dreads as troops for popping the big tanks but again that depends on who/what Im playing

Heres what I came up with.

2 Big Meks with KFF
2 squads of 5 Lootas
3 Meganobs 1 Kombi Schorcha 1 Combi Rokkit for diversity.
BattleWagon Dedicated with 4 Rokkits and 1 Kannon and Grot Riggers ( 2 Repair rolls!)
3 Squads of 30 shoota boys 3 Rokkit launchers Nob PK / BP
2 Deff Dreads with 2 KMB each.
3 individual Rokkit Buggies
1 BattleWagon with 4 Rokkits and 1 Kannon and Grot Riggers
2 units of 10 Gitz - Shootier, More Dakka with a painboy

2500 points even - Take it to ard boys!!!

no hammer and Ork shooting is a lost cause, but its the closes thing to competitive I can think of.

Shooty as hell thats for sure.

4 rokkiz on a wagon? you can only fire them all if you remain stationary wich is bad, and the wagons will ALWAYS be shaken or stunned, becasue smart enemies shoot stuff that delivers something very dangerous. So you will nerver be able to shoot out of them, theyll remain stationary from a stunned results and will then be taken apart by a powerfist (rear av 10 and open topped...

Its bad anyway you look at it.

If it does get to shoot it will kill something though!

You got the mek to hope for a save.

Drive into position, and fire for effect!
Will it work, probably not! If it does... oh hell yeah!!!

Im with MrMerlin, those battlewagons will be a huge waste of points if it moves, but you dont want it just sitting there hoping to ram rokkits down somethings throat, squadrons of rokkit buggies would be FAR better for that option, more shooting for less AND the shots are TL.

Id rather do a FlashGits build on foot mostly. Move 6 inches and still have a 24inch range? 30 inch threat range will be plenty on the average board setup (specially tournies as they seem to have very little as far as terrain goes. Not to mention it looks like your going for a rokkit spam build, and again if thats the case, you can pump out WAY more rokkits then how that looks, and again would have rokkit buggies in it. Last time I tried I did NOT take tankbustas and still pumped out something like 24 rokkits a turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Forgot to add, once in awhile for fun Ill take a BW gun wagon for kicks. Its x4 bigshootas w/kannon and I just set it up and let it shoot until something breaks. If you get a good shooting phase, it really can put down some lead. But again, that one wouldnt be ANYWHERE near a competitive army build

Alright.

so drop the 8 rokkits and add 2 more rokkit buggies.

I like the idea of the firing platform.

I had to do some shenanigans with jumping my boys out of a bw and some lootas into one once and it worked out well, but I guess the lootas range allows that better.

Anvildude wrote:Hmm... Hold on there, Soldado. You might have something there.

What about taking 3 mobs of min, bare Nobz, just for the DT Battlewagons? Use the Nobz (or maybe Meganobz, if you want to splurge) as Objective campers (a squad or two enough away to act as counter-charge units) and let the Gitz take the tooled up Battlewagons?

So you want to minimize the nobs which are arguably the best in the codex so you can steal their transports to put flash gits in them? You guys are silly

I think gits strategy needs it's own thread. That could go on forever...

Tried that once. It died a slow, horrible death.