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*shrugs* illogic is something that most people have. Just look at work for exampl and The telegraph is not the most accurate newspaper reporting. CNN little better. Both news companies sensationalise news coverage. Further research on my part (ABC news, BBC news and the West Australian) all say the camp was funded by the government, but don't go into specifics.

Trondheim wrote:Just heard on the radio, 92 people are confirmed killed. 7 from the bomb blast the rest from the shooting at Utøya. Words can not describe this tradgedy

Only 7 from the bomb...and 85 from the shooting?

Holy gak, what did he use to kill 85 people so quickly...where they all at like a meeting or something and he came in with a machine gun?

85 at the site of the shooting. It seems people jumped into water to escape, and a lot of them drowned. He probably wasn't even carrying enough ammunition to shoot that many people.

Ahtman wrote:It seems he thought by killing off future politicians (it was a political party summer camp) he thought he was getting rid of politicians that were not tough on immigration, especially Muslim immigrants which he felt were dangerous.

Yeah sounds about right mate.

He just released a statement saying it was "gruesome but necessary" it seems to me like the bloke proper hates Muslims, but maybe he thought that targeting them would stir up sympathy or further concessions for them, so instead he targeted the left leaning party that he deems as being responsible for allowing Muslims concessions and to settle in the country.

I can understand the logic behind it, but only to a point. Whats wrong with writing a few letters?

I mean, its not like people are going to vote for the more right wing party now is it? They have supporters that are full on bat gak crazy!

Also, speculation he had an accomplice, which as I said earlier, seems sensible. That is alot of prior planning and prep for one bloke.

Apparently he will release a full statement on Monday, the mad fether.

I'm still shocked that the cops took that "fething" nazi alive. I firmly belive they should have shot him dead before he had time to surrender. Nobody would have blamed the cops. Does that make me a bad person?
Now, he'll get 12-21 years in prison, unless he gets out early for good behaviour. Death toll is 93 people in total, though atleast 5 kids are still missing. The police haven't gotten a confirm on how many actually were attending. Attrocities like these are what the death penalty is for. To bad none of us scandinavian countries have it anymore.

Btw, he was using an automated rifle, and wearing a police uniform.
//Calle

Does that make me a bad person?

No, not in my view.

Holy gak, what did he use to kill 85 people so quickly...where they all at like a meeting or something and he came in with a machine gun?

Dunno. There are pictures of him being posted holding a Ruger Mini-14 with about 5 metric tons of crap bolted on, but I am also hearing that a shotgun and revolver were used. Regardless, not exactly a difficult shot, hitting a kid trying to swim away or similar.

Gah wish this one had caught a round in the teeth early on, before he had time to kill almost a hundred people. <CENSORED>

Youtube knight templar 2083. The bastard posted a video an hour before committing to this act. He also wrote a manifest of 1500 pages, hiving "tips" on how to plan, and perform acts like these... Holy 'feth! Bloody nutjob.

I hope his new "friends" in prison makes his life a living hell, up untill the day before he's released, and then gut him with a very blunt spoon...

Holy gak, what did he use to kill 85 people so quickly...where they all at like a meeting or something and he came in with a machine gun?

Drowning as they tried to swim away in cold water.

I'm still shocked that the cops took that "fething" nazi alive.

And why is that? It´s a good thing they got him alive, that way he can be coerced to talk about how exactly he did things and if he had friends helping him to plan everything etc. Also giving profilers material to study and become better at preventing such things from happening in the future.

Killing him would be a very stupid thing to do and also provide the people who silently or not silently agree and sympathize with him and what he did a rally point, a "martyr" if you like.



As for what he did there is a logic behind it yes, hating the multiculti society (that people actually never voted for) he went after the source of it or rather the future source by killing a lot of people on what he no doubt saw as a "socialist factory".
There is no difference between his actions then lets say, a terrorist blowing people up in the middle east because he is fed up thinking that outside people arent having anything to do in his country are there abusing it.
The same sicko reaction to the same problem and I think we have only seen the start of it. Recent human history shows us that this will only escalate.

The really interesting issue is how big is the population number that in silence agree with him and his actions...

Pyriel- wrote:

The really interesting issue is how big is the population number that in silence agree with him and his actions...

Indeed, aside from the killing, I know a great many people who agree with some of the sentiment, and Im one of them. Im sure most centre right people have some sort of understanding of what was going through his mind.

The Islamic empire was once the centre of learning and culture in the world, it was they that preserved the knowledge of the Greeks while we were busy with the dark ages. Then theocracy set in and the Islamic states fell into a blackhole that they still have never recovered from.

This is what makes me believe that facilitating the censorship of anyone who attempts to criticize Islam is wrong, and dangerous. And it is RIFE. You literally cant criticize these people, Bill Mahr (pretty left leaning bloke) talked about this at length and its absolutely true. People are happy to criticize other Religions, but not them, you have to be quiet.

I firmly believe that allowing Islam a free reign is an accident waiting to happen, that Islam is innately irrational and many of its core teachings at utterly at odds with a truly free democracy that values everyone as equal regardless of sexuality or gender, and my views wont change thanks to the actions of a raving lunatic.

Well, Mattyrm, perhaps if you were criticising the Islamic Theocracy in the Middle East as opposed to Islam itself, which is no worse a religion than any other, people would agree with you more. After all, it's not religion itself which is evil, but the way people interpret it.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Well, Mattyrm, perhaps if you were criticising the Islamic Theocracy in the Middle East as opposed to Islam itself, which is no worse a religion than any other, people would agree with you more. After all, it's not religion itself which is evil, but the way people interpret it.

As ive said, im no fan of any of the big three so i fairly spread my ire, and i feel that you can make a cast iron case that it is the worst of the three, but this aint the place for it.

Thought this might be of interest. Norwegian TV photographer caught a picture of the suspect during the attack. Areas whited out are where bodies lay. Image in spoiler in case people do not wish to view it. As you can tell by the blue uniform with stripes, he is clearly dressed as a Norwegian Police Officer.



The OC-D

mattyrm wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Well, Mattyrm, perhaps if you were criticising the Islamic Theocracy in the Middle East as opposed to Islam itself, which is no worse a religion than any other, people would agree with you more. After all, it's not religion itself which is evil, but the way people interpret it.

As ive said, im no fan of any of the big three so i fairly spread my ire, and i feel that you can make a cast iron case that it is the worst of the three, but this aint the place for it.

Fair enough, man. Still, I'd argue it's people which are the problem, not ideals. However, you are right, this isn't the place.

SOFDC wrote:

Holy gak, what did he use to kill 85 people so quickly...where they all at like a meeting or something and he came in with a machine gun?

Dunno. There are pictures of him being posted holding a Ruger Mini-14 with about 5 metric tons of crap bolted on, but I am also hearing that a shotgun and revolver were used. Regardless, not exactly a difficult shot, hitting a kid trying to swim away or similar.

The guy dressed as an officer and called them over I heard. Its easy to fool a kid when his buddies are dead on the ground, the guy needs to die and when he does he'll be going to the deepest levels of hell hopefully.

My sympathies for dead, their families and for the whole city of Oslo. Events like this can change the way a city sees itself, how safe it's people perceive themselves to be forever. It's just awful.

Medium of Death wrote:Most Muslims aren't terrorists, but are most terrorists Muslims?

There were more than 300 terrorist incidents in Europe in 2010. Almost all were connected to seperatist movements and whacko political causes. Only four were connected to Islamic groups. And that was without counting any IRA acts at all.

So... no, it's absolutely factually wrong to claim most terrorists are Muslims.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

J.Black wrote:I hope they use the cheese grater on his balls....

Violent revenge fantasies just aren't needed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mattyrm wrote: Yeah flash, I know where your coming from, I just feel that understanding the cause can give us something to work with, if we can understand exactly why something occurs, we can take preventative steps. I understood what you were saying.

So, given the guy is a neo-nazi and reports say he was concerned about Islamic immigration, you're saying we really need to examine the bigotry and anti-immigrant paranoia that's risen sharply in the last decade, yeah?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jag_Calle wrote:I'm still shocked that the cops took that "fething" nazi alive. I firmly belive they should have shot him dead before he had time to surrender. Nobody would have blamed the cops. Does that make me a bad person?

No, it just makes you a person with a very poor understanding of the importance of due process.

Now, he'll get 12-21 years in prison, unless he gets out early for good behaviour

Having too leniant a maximum sentence isn't a good reason to grant the police the right to summary execution.

If someone killed that many people here, they would probably be executed. I wouldn't normally endorse the death penalty, but if they killed over 90 people, I don't think I'd say anything against it.

Timothy McVeigh was executed.

Kilkrazy wrote:Timothy McVeigh was executed.

And for good reason. Just because you have a political ideal it doesn't mean that you have the right to blow up a building and kill people, especially kids who have no politics. The guy admitted it and he's only going to get 21 years in prison at most, that's a incredibly [sarcasm]heavy[/sarcasm] sentence.

Mike Noble wrote:If someone killed that many people here, they would probably be executed. I wouldn't normally endorse the death penalty, but if they killed over 90 people, I don't think I'd say anything against it.

Sure, and if the law calls for execution for heinous crimes, and a court of law finds there is enough evidence to convict, then off with his head.

But that's very different to saying policemen should summarily execute somebody.

First of all the bomber was christian pro israel so not an neo-nazi at all. He wanted to establish a new templar order to make a new crusade aginst islam
The bomb was more of a distraction so he could get to utøya(it was after work hours and most peopple had vecation) and start his killing spree there he was dressed as an police officer at both plazes tricking children into thinking it was safe to get out from there hiding plazes so he coud shoot them. He surendered at once when the police told him to drop his weapons. his goal allredy acomplished. Earlier that day he had sent a 1500 page manifesto to the far right wing party in finnland explaining all his action and sevral real life events + manuals how to make weapons and bombs. I myself had peopple that i went to school with a grade under me on utøya luckily they managed to swim the 600 meters to the shore on the other side when the shooting started. Today there will be a hearing at the court there is a large discussion if it will be an open hearing for the public or an closed one. 93 is so far confirmed dead with 4-5 peopple missing and around 13 peopple criticly injured at the hospital.

mattyrm wrote:Then theocracy set in and the Islamic states fell into a blackhole that they still have never recovered from.

You're neglecting to mention that the "then" in question was the middle of the twentieth century, in a movement akin to the revivalism that swept the US a few decades earlier and which is already burning itself out, at least in regions a little further away from the hearts of the radical doctrines (Iran and Saudi Arabia, particularly Saudi Arabia).

saitani wrote:First of all the bomber was christian pro israel so not an neo-nazi at all.

It seems the difference between him and a Neo-Nazi would be the attitude toward Israel.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:You're neglecting to mention that the "then" in question was the middle of the twentieth century, in a movement akin to the revivalism that swept the US a few decades earlier and which is already burning itself out, at least in regions a little further away from the hearts of the radical doctrines (Iran and Saudi Arabia, particularly Saudi Arabia).

I've tried to explain to mattyrm that the fundamental shift in Islam has relatively recent roots before. He doesn't want to hear it. His mind is made up.

sebster wrote:
I've tried to explain to mattyrm that the fundamental shift in Islam has relatively recent roots before. He doesn't want to hear it. His mind is made up.

Yes it is!

I was disapointed that it wasnt a Muslim of course, as Im of the opinion that the more people think like me the better, and the more people they shoot and blow up the more people start to see things Mattys way. London, Madrid and New York certainly caused a spike in common sense as far as im concerned. However ive no great love of Christianity either so, as long as its one of the big three im pretty happy.

The followers of the desert God have been fething up the world for long enough, and pretty soon people are going to say "enough is enough", be it nutters with rifles, suicide bombers, helping spread AID's in Africa, wrecking Science class, banning abortion and forcing their will onto the majority, buggering boys.

Pick one.

I have no time at all for the fence sitters who endlessly defend these people despite the fact that this gak goes on every day of the year and most of them arent even Religious themselves.

And ill speak to you further about this when my inevitable ban ends.

mattyrm wrote:However ive no great love of Christianity either so, as long as its one of the big three im pretty happy.

You've mentioned "the big three" a couple times in this thread. Are you referring to Hinduism, the third largest religion?

Otherwise, assuming you're referring to the three Abrahamic religions, what exactly have the Jews done in recent history to earn your ire?

biccat wrote:
Otherwise, assuming you're referring to the three Abrahamic religions, what exactly have the Jews done in recent history to earn your ire?

Its all going swimmingly in Israel. Why, its such a moderating and calming place, Im sure that the whole world should follow the Israeli/Palestinian example of how to live in peace and harmony.

Regards Hindusim, clearly its ridiculous as well, but my life isnt affected by it.

I am of course referring to the 3 Abrahamic religions, and I was retorting to Sebster, this is way OT and if you want me to fully brief you as to my utter loathing for them, I will be glad to PM you.

mattyrm wrote:

biccat wrote:
Otherwise, assuming you're referring to the three Abrahamic religions, what exactly have the Jews done in recent history to earn your ire?

Its all going swimmingly in Israel. Why, its such a moderating and calming place, Im sure that the whole world should follow the Israeli/Palestinian example of how to live in peace and harmony.

Because clearly the only issue with Palestine and Israel is religion.

Kanluwen wrote:

mattyrm wrote:

biccat wrote:
Otherwise, assuming you're referring to the three Abrahamic religions, what exactly have the Jews done in recent history to earn your ire?

Its all going swimmingly in Israel. Why, its such a moderating and calming place, Im sure that the whole world should follow the Israeli/Palestinian example of how to live in peace and harmony.

Because clearly the only issue with Palestine and Israel is religion.

because.. because...

Why is it whenever you say almost anything, people follow it with "because" like its some sort of clever retort?

Which moron said, or thinks, that Religion is the only issue?

But its one of them. A very fething big one.

If that a point in its favour? That ok its a big issue, but its not the only one, so its dead good?

As I said, its OT. PM me if you actually have something of value to say, because this thread is about the tragic mass murder in Norway.

Kanluwen wrote:

mattyrm wrote:

biccat wrote:
Otherwise, assuming you're referring to the three Abrahamic religions, what exactly have the Jews done in recent history to earn your ire?

Its all going swimmingly in Israel. Why, its such a moderating and calming place, Im sure that the whole world should follow the Israeli/Palestinian example of how to live in peace and harmony.

Because clearly the only issue with Palestine and Israel is religion.

It certainly is at the roots of the problems.


Back on topic: Swedish state television is reporting that the guy had loads of ammo left when they [Norwegian police] got him and that he could've kept shooting for quite a while.

As for the water being cold, it's to the south of Norway in the middle of the summer. Sure, it's probably not tropical, but you're hardly going to die from hypothermia after an hour in it.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Back on topic: Swedish state television is reporting that the guy had loads of ammo left when they [Norwegian police] got him and that he could've kept shooting for quite a while.

It's becoming pretty clear that this guy wasn't interested in dying for his cause, but wanted to get his message out. As soon as someone who posed a threat to him appeared, he surrendered.

What a coward.