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Well the SW has a very, interesting? army. Logan, scouts, redeemer, venerable with lascannon, a "one-of-each-type" devastator squad, and 10 wolf guard in terminator armor. He only just started attacking aggressively instead of waiting for me to come roll him. At 1.3k, those termies don't seem to have any cost effect for him.

And believe me, WE TRIED telling him to move the tank to the front, and then move it, its not getting us far.

Jayden63 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:If someone deep strikes a squad of Death Company near my lines, I'm going to paste it with a Leman Russ or Vindicator. Please, bring your expensive deathstar unit close to my big guns, and clump up as much as possible.

And orks and Tau have access to which of those listed? Yeah... thought so.

Plasma rifles/fusion blasters from Tau crisis suits, lots of klaws from the nobz. Give the nobz cybork bodies/painboy as you generally should be anyway, and give them lots of klaws. They're a deathstar unit, and can counter another deathstar like a big death company. If you've got a shokk attack gun, that's AP2 anyway and can stop those death company in their tracks, but I wouldn't rely on it with its variable strength and wacky effects. A lot of Blood Angels players wouldn't be caught dead fielding the death company in the first place, as they're expensive as hell and hard to control. The real strength of Blood Angels is in their fast vehicles.

Jayden63 wrote:

MikZor wrote: they really aren't that OP, all you need to do with that squad is put 6 FW in a devilfish and keep it just out of assault range, with rage they'll just follow it around the board all day long and you've avoided a 300pnt squad

Alternatively screen with kroot.

Or (i know this may seem outlandish) SHOOT them! If i can blow them off the board as eldar you can do it as tau, if he's running a 10 man DC and DS where are the suits? 9 suits should have no problem with that unit, and if you screen the suits once again with kroot then you have another round of shooting them

Added to my resume:
Grand Master of Stratedgy - 2011
Studied at Dakkadakka Tactics Forum

How exactly does a unit that only moves 12" avoid a unit that moves 12" and assaults 6" that only has a D6 scatter upon landing? Just wondering. The only things that have a chance at this are fast skimmers. Something orks and tau seem to be missing. The SW player would have a chance to do it with a LandSpeeder but thats it. Also for the tau player, how exactly does one fit 9 suits with plasma into a 1000 to 1300 point list. Or you know, have $315 dollars for the purchase of said suits when they are just beginning the game.

Seriously people, read the OP. This isn't what would you do with your imaginary lists, unlimited funds, or unconcerned army codexs. Think realistically about the situation. Yeah this DC unit plus Lamarties is half of the points, but in this situation, against these armies, at this point level, it might be the only points he needs.

They move 12" - DC need 6's to hit: 6.4 hit on Av
Penetrating - FC, DC need 5,6's to do anything: 2.3 total attacks do something on Av
Stopping it moving again - 4+6 on a Glance, 2,4,5,6 on a Pen
If it gets wrecked, moved the FW(provided they aren't pinned) and run with them, so the DC still have to chase them, leaving them even further away

The OT was are blood angels OP, No they are not OP IMO, nor is this 1 squad, i give reasons as to why they're not and ways to combat them and if it's working for the blood angels player then good for him, he's obviously got a good list, while i will admit the tau codex is very old and could use an update, they can still combat BA and every other army. Losing to a single unit doesn't warrant shouting cheese and jumping up and down, it just means you have to rethink your stratedgy or list, so you can deal with these threats when they pop up.

In short BA are not OP

Well, I don't think they'll agree until I taste a brutal defeat, and I don't mean close by 500pt, I mean I GET WRECKED. Well, it'll resume too new heights (not that it's been silenced) when I get 2 stormravens and 10 more DC, killing tanks and dropping of DC what a combo.

I'm telling you, start throwing Mephiston at them too and experience what is best in life. To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

Orblivion wrote:I'm telling you, start throwing Mephiston at them too and experience what is best in life. To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

The Lord of cheese has that effect on people

No army is OP there are however armies that provide easier choices. I.E. building and playing a good necron/tau list takes more practice then building and playing a good blood angels list.

it normally boils down to the players skill level. but a codex with easy choices can help unbalance things a little when two equal skilled players vs each other.

GamzaTheChaos wrote:No army is OP there are however armies that provide easier choices. I.E. building and playing a good necron/tau list takes more practice then building and playing a good blood angels list.

it normally boils down to the players skill level. but a codex with easy choices can help unbalance things a little when two equal skilled players vs each other.

And if you believe that you'll believe anything.

In my oh so very humble opinion any army that starts with 'Space' or ends with 'Angels', 'Knights' or 'Templars' is OP'd by definition, now I know you MEQ players will disagree, but 'Know no Fear' is undoubtably the most overpowered rule in existance, excluding 2nd edition hallucinogen grenades (if you don't understand, google them). An entire army that automatically regroups regardless of size, can't be run down, can't run off-board, has T4, 3+ saves and come relatively cheap (yes, 15pts per TM is cheap). Compare to Eldar, 16pts for a banshee, S3, T3 4+ sv, PWs and always hits first on the 1st round of combat. Dies like a hormagaunt, hits like a marine attacking a wraithlord (not at all). Statistically 1/6 Banshee attacks kill a marine in CC, and 1/6 SM attacks kill a banshee. unfortunately banshees dont have bolters of 'Know no Fear'.

Don't get me started on GK assassins.

TBH this all just sounds like a bunch of new players who need to learn how to use their armies more effectively. No offense...everyone starts this way. With practise you evolve new tactics and learn to build better lists.

Don't be afraid to try something new, keep an eye on the current (and slightly older) tactics threads to see if you can find some competitive options and work on it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Case in point I know an extremely good Tau player and he ran rings around...well pretty much everyone he played. Sure he lost some games (as do we all) but you knew it would never be an easy match.

No why would they be?? Nothing is over powered in 40k. Just play using balanced lists.

Dude my advice is to just ignore the stupid comments and let them win from time to time.

I am like you. my friends will not play with me because I tabled them every game with my orks.

They think orks is the most OP. In my local area yes it is. only few armies can deal with 120 boys and many lootas.

You can always help them to get better. I am very new to 40k, I played this for about 4-5 months. I have beaten all the vet players in our GW shop and only lost in very small margins, like failing a leadership test or missed one roll. mostly its draws.

The ork player should beat blood angel no problem. you charge his 20 boys or 30 correct? then 60 orks charge you so your dead. now they just move on and kill more.

tell him to put PK in ever mob of orks.

tau, are hard to beat when they can shoot you to death expecially my orks. tell him to place his guys on the back line and get some kroot. when you deep stike, he will shoot you to pieces and let the kroot do the finnishing job.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

TEMPERUS MAXIMUS wrote:

GamzaTheChaos wrote:No army is OP there are however armies that provide easier choices. I.E. building and playing a good necron/tau list takes more practice then building and playing a good blood angels list.

it normally boils down to the players skill level. but a codex with easy choices can help unbalance things a little when two equal skilled players vs each other.

And if you believe that you'll believe anything.

In my oh so very humble opinion any army that starts with 'Space' or ends with 'Angels', 'Knights' or 'Templars' is OP'd by definition, now I know you MEQ players will disagree, but 'Know no Fear' is undoubtably the most overpowered rule in existance, excluding 2nd edition hallucinogen grenades (if you don't understand, google them). An entire army that automatically regroups regardless of size, can't be run down, can't run off-board, has T4, 3+ saves and come relatively cheap (yes, 15pts per TM is cheap). Compare to Eldar, 16pts for a banshee, S3, T3 4+ sv, PWs and always hits first on the 1st round of combat. Dies like a hormagaunt, hits like a marine attacking a wraithlord (not at all). Statistically 1/6 Banshee attacks kill a marine in CC, and 1/6 SM attacks kill a banshee. unfortunately banshees dont have bolters of 'Know no Fear'.

Don't get me started on GK assassins.

haters gonna hate.

trust me no matter how OP they might be if you play your game right, you will put up a good fight. my orks have beaten many space marine armies. my GK will own my orks but thats just a bad match up.

GK assassins are nothing, only the paladin and purifers you need to worry about.

TEMPERUS MAXIMUS wrote:

GamzaTheChaos wrote:No army is OP there are however armies that provide easier choices. I.E. building and playing a good necron/tau list takes more practice then building and playing a good blood angels list.

it normally boils down to the players skill level. but a codex with easy choices can help unbalance things a little when two equal skilled players vs each other.

And if you believe that you'll believe anything.

In my oh so very humble opinion any army that starts with 'Space' or ends with 'Angels', 'Knights' or 'Templars' is OP'd by definition, now I know you MEQ players will disagree, but 'Know no Fear' is undoubtably the most overpowered rule in existance, excluding 2nd edition hallucinogen grenades (if you don't understand, google them). An entire army that automatically regroups regardless of size, can't be run down, can't run off-board, has T4, 3+ saves and come relatively cheap (yes, 15pts per TM is cheap). Compare to Eldar, 16pts for a banshee, S3, T3 4+ sv, PWs and always hits first on the 1st round of combat. Dies like a hormagaunt, hits like a marine attacking a wraithlord (not at all). Statistically 1/6 Banshee attacks kill a marine in CC, and 1/6 SM attacks kill a banshee. unfortunately banshees dont have bolters of 'Know no Fear'.

Don't get me started on GK assassins.

Sooo if a 14 year old player who just started blood angels less then 2 months ago VS a 30 year old Eldar player who has been playing very competitively ever since his codex was released face off in a ohhh lets say 1500 point game. you are saying this eldar player is going to have an grave disadvantage and will be playing an up hill battle the entire game?

is there a point in which you agree that a player is more important then his codex? Does a codex decide who wins and who loses!!??!!

If I have a 5000 point tau army VS a 2000 point blood angel list is it even worth fighting that battle? I mean after all IT IS BLOOD ANGELS!!! i'll just die before the game starts because BA are so OP!!!!

Hmmm....I'm always dubious of threads which talk about units/armies being unfair, but which then have posts in such as 'does everything get +1 attack on the charge' and 'DC get to reroll ALL to hit and to wound'!

If you are close friends playing informal games, then have you guys considered an army swap? Y'know, play a game with each others force, read each others codex and have a go at coming up with some army lists. I find playing with a unit helps you see what it's weaknesses are, and 10 JP DC do have a weakness or two!

Also, spice up your games, play different objectives and deployment styles. Vary the amount of terrain, maybe even use some of the crazy rules from the sample campaign in the back of the basic rule book. Variety is the spice of life.

TEMPERUS MAXIMUS wrote:
And if you believe that you'll believe anything.

In my oh so very humble opinion any army that starts with 'Space' or ends with 'Angels', 'Knights' or 'Templars' is OP'd by definition, now I know you MEQ players will disagree, but 'Know no Fear' is undoubtably the most overpowered rule in existance, excluding 2nd edition hallucinogen grenades (if you don't understand, google them). An entire army that automatically regroups regardless of size, can't be run down, can't run off-board, has T4, 3+ saves and come relatively cheap (yes, 15pts per TM is cheap). Compare to Eldar, 16pts for a banshee, S3, T3 4+ sv, PWs and always hits first on the 1st round of combat. Dies like a hormagaunt, hits like a marine attacking a wraithlord (not at all). Statistically 1/6 Banshee attacks kill a marine in CC, and 1/6 SM attacks kill a banshee. unfortunately banshees dont have bolters of 'Know no Fear'.

Don't get me started on GK assassins.

Seriously? Sigh. Templars are far from overpowered. Dark Angels are overcosted for anything but straight up Deathwing. Comparing a Banshee and a Space Marine is apples and oranges. Space Marines are meant to survive and aren't as killy as Banshees. If 1/6 attacks from a Marine kills a Banshee, and 1/6 attacks from a Banshee kills a Marine but the Banshee hits first and has more attacks to begin with, then Banshees have the edge. I can make the same stupid hyperbole by going "Fire Dragons are so OP! They're cheaper than Marines with melta guns AND THEY GET FLEET!??!?!?!?!" but it's meaningless because they're not meant to be directly compared. You can't just compare two units in a vacuum; they work differently with each army, and synergize with the army they're in.

And They Shall Know No Fear still requires the Marine unit to be outside of 6" of an enemy at the beginning of the Marine player movement phase in order to regroup. You can easily chase them off the board. I've had it done to me with an empty Chimera. Marines are fine, and you're too busy Chicken Little-ing to see that.

TEMPERUS MAXIMUS wrote:

GamzaTheChaos wrote:No army is OP there are however armies that provide easier choices. I.E. building and playing a good necron/tau list takes more practice then building and playing a good blood angels list.

it normally boils down to the players skill level. but a codex with easy choices can help unbalance things a little when two equal skilled players vs each other.

And if you believe that you'll believe anything.

In my oh so very humble opinion any army that starts with 'Space' or ends with 'Angels', 'Knights' or 'Templars' is OP'd by definition, now I know you MEQ players will disagree, but 'Know no Fear' is undoubtably the most overpowered rule in existance, excluding 2nd edition hallucinogen grenades (if you don't understand, google them). An entire army that automatically regroups regardless of size, can't be run down, can't run off-board, has T4, 3+ saves and come relatively cheap (yes, 15pts per TM is cheap). Compare to Eldar, 16pts for a banshee, S3, T3 4+ sv, PWs and always hits first on the 1st round of combat. Dies like a hormagaunt, hits like a marine attacking a wraithlord (not at all). Statistically 1/6 Banshee attacks kill a marine in CC, and 1/6 SM attacks kill a banshee. unfortunately banshees dont have bolters of 'Know no Fear'.

Don't get me started on GK assassins.

QQ

juraigamer wrote:The only thing op currently is guard and space wolves.

You spam death company and dreads? Meaning you take a unit of each? Well it's your opponents own damn fault for letting you get into melee.

The space wolf player has no right to complain. Tell him to stop spamming long fangs if that is indeed what he is doing or whatnot.

The tau player... well yea, dead in melee is their other name. Then again, a good tau player will run circles around you.

The ork player probably is spamming boys right? Otherwise he should be able to down some of the death company easily.

I have one squad of Long Fangs, Really? I don't even spam, yet he insists on being the best player anyways, and being pro.

Botten3 wrote:

juraigamer wrote:The only thing op currently is guard and space wolves.

You spam death company and dreads? Meaning you take a unit of each? Well it's your opponents own damn fault for letting you get into melee.

The space wolf player has no right to complain. Tell him to stop spamming long fangs if that is indeed what he is doing or whatnot.

The tau player... well yea, dead in melee is their other name. Then again, a good tau player will run circles around you.

The ork player probably is spamming boys right? Otherwise he should be able to down some of the death company easily.

I have one squad of Long Fangs, Really? I don't even spam, yet he insists on being the best player anyways, and being pro.

The objective of this game is to win. You won't have any incentive to get better if he goes easy on you, just to make you happy by winning.

Ineed2bucks wrote:Well the SW has a very, interesting? army. Logan, scouts, redeemer, venerable with lascannon, a "one-of-each-type" devastator squad, and 10 wolf guard in terminator armor. He only just started attacking aggressively instead of waiting for me to come roll him. At 1.3k, those termies don't seem to have any cost effect for him.

And believe me, WE TRIED telling him to move the tank to the front, and then move it, its not getting us far.

Lol i gave up

Botten3 wrote:

juraigamer wrote:The only thing op currently is guard and space wolves.

You spam death company and dreads? Meaning you take a unit of each? Well it's your opponents own damn fault for letting you get into melee.

The space wolf player has no right to complain. Tell him to stop spamming long fangs if that is indeed what he is doing or whatnot.

The tau player... well yea, dead in melee is their other name. Then again, a good tau player will run circles around you.

The ork player probably is spamming boys right? Otherwise he should be able to down some of the death company easily.

I have one squad of Long Fangs, Really? I don't even spam, yet he insists on being the best player anyways, and being pro.

I never said you spam, or that I'm pro, but I never lose so ya I do think I'm the best ATM, not saying I'll never lose, I mean, DC aren't the god unit so don't make them out to be the worse thing possible to fight.

Ineed2bucks wrote:

I never said you spam, or that I'm pro, but I never lose so ya I do think I'm the best ATM, not saying I'll never lose.

That's fairly off topic, the point is BA aren't OP, so don't view em' as so op.

Plus, no, I don't say that.

Ineed2bucks wrote:That's fairly off topic, the point is BA aren't OP, so don't view em' as so op.

Plus, no, I don't say that.

Wasn't saying that they were so op, I am just saying that in games against a 4th edition codex it feels very unbalanced.

Hineswardrocks wrote:

Ineed2bucks wrote:That's fairly off topic, the point is BA aren't OP, so don't view em' as so op.

Plus, no, I don't say that.

Wasn't saying that they were so op, I am just saying that in games against a 4th edition codex it feels very unbalanced.

Ok, this'll get you, EXPLAIN HOW ITS UNBALANCED THEN

Ineed2bucks wrote:
Ok, this'll get you, EXPLAIN HOW ITS UNBALANCED THEN

Just read half the comments in this thread (btw mephiston= )

Only real cheesy thing about Mephiston is his base size, other than that he is kind of overrated.

Against Tau, BA have a pretty big advantage due to the nature of their codex (fast assault), against other armies they are slightly more balanced. All that you can really do as Tau is realise that you are not meant to be a static gunline, but a mobile gunline and get good at target prioritisation. You will lose stuff but the point is to mitigate the loses. Deep Striking opens up the squad for one turn before it can really do anything, likely if you focus all fire onto the deep striking unit something else will get into melee. I guess the trick is to take advantage of rage and divide the forces, kind of like how Tau were designed to in 4th; small sacrificial units to keep the enemy at range as long as possible. Also rather than wipe out full squads at a time it may work to simply weaken multiple threats at a time, slowing down all the threats rather than one or two. I doubt a single marine would be able to win combat by itself. Basically learn to kite, it's a fairly useful tactic at times.

Flechette charges, or whatever they are called, could actually be useful for once due to rage.

n0t_u wrote:
Against Tau, BA have a pretty big advantage due to the nature of their codex (fast assault), against other armies they are slightly more balanced.
Flechette charges, or whatever they are called, could actually be useful for once due to rage.

What he is saying is that everything is completley balanced and he is just a pro with pro level tactics.

Well if the OP is just using the same tactic over and over again (deep strike DC and kill stuff in CC) then it shouldn't take too long to build tactics to beat it.

Once his ten man DC unit lands you target it with Crisis and Broadside. See how long they survive after being hit by Railguns, Smart Missiles, Plasma Rifles and Fusion Blasters. If there's any left then charge them with Kroot to keep them bogged down and negate their assault bonuses for at least a turn, allowing you to manoeuvre your soft units away.

Nah it's cool, Mephiston takes the most of the beating of all those, it's not a problem.

Hineswardrocks wrote:

n0t_u wrote:
Against Tau, BA have a pretty big advantage due to the nature of their codex (fast assault), against other armies they are slightly more balanced.
Flechette charges, or whatever they are called, could actually be useful for once due to rage.

What he is saying is that everything is completley balanced and he is just a pro with pro level tactics.

Cover hopping is a good strategy against a ranged opponent though, not like BA really need it all that much but it helps with the AP1-2 goodness which eat the FNP. Just make sure they take those dangerous terrain tests if they use jump packs, 1 in 6 chance per model for a free kill there. If the DC are out in the open and nearby after DSing, unload all AP1-2 on them and laugh.

He does come across as a bit cocky though. Sure is fun beating marine players like that with Eldar.

Hineswardrocks wrote:

n0t_u wrote:
Against Tau, BA have a pretty big advantage due to the nature of their codex (fast assault), against other armies they are slightly more balanced.
Flechette charges, or whatever they are called, could actually be useful for once due to rage.

What he is saying is that everything is completley balanced and he is just a pro with pro level tactics.

Why don't you improve your own game and change your tactics instead of complaining about your friend who beats you? You want him to go easy on you and let you win?

Hell, change armies if you think his is so OP.