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pretre wrote:

Dr_Chin wrote:Well I think if as a daemon player facing GK I am screwed

You could have stopped right there.

Very true...

lol I have faced many GK's players and I have only lost 1 game I have won about 7 and drawn none so I am doing good, but this is kind of crazy.

pretre wrote:

Dr_Chin wrote:Well I think if as a daemon player facing GK I am screwed

You could have stopped right there.

It is all going to depend entirely on how they choose to run GK. SS yeah they may give you some trouble. However if they are running any other variant that isn't running SS, then you can worry less. But as pretre said...you could have stopped with that first statement. Daemons vs. GK is not a balanced match up.

Dr_Chin wrote:lol I have faced many GK's players and I have only lost 1 game I have won about 7 and drawn none so I am doing good, but this is kind of crazy.

So... Let me get this straight.

Your army has a hard time against one variant of GK, that hardly anyone plays, in one mission deployment type?

Yeah, that mission is super broken.

I did not say anything about super broken now did I sir! lol I just said I would have a hard time with it.

Dr_Chin wrote:I did not say anything about super broken now did I sir! lol I just said I would have a hard time with it.

Okay, so you're saying that you would have a hard time with an army that is specifically built to beat your army type (and really only your army type) in that mission?

Yeah, that sounds about right. Good thing that no one in their right mind would field Warp Quake spam at Semis.

I've been thinking about it. I usually run Deathwing with a tac squad for objectives. Do you think its worth getting it in a rhino? That way, if I go second, I can place the Rhino up against the deployment zone and if the rhino blows disembark into the other person's deployment zone.

Going second is just bad in this scenario.

Do you think the messenger is a "unique model" for wound allocation? I'm inclined to think not, but need to be prepared for the argument.

I would guess that the model will be considered unique since in game terms it is infact different. Otherwise you would not be able to confirm that the messenger had been killed unless the unit was wiped out.

kestral wrote:I've been thinking about it. I usually run Deathwing with a tac squad for objectives. Do you think its worth getting it in a rhino? That way, if I go second, I can place the Rhino up against the deployment zone and if the rhino blows disembark into the other person's deployment zone.

Chances are most opponents can block this if you go second.

Do you think the messenger is a "unique model" for wound allocation? I'm inclined to think not, but need to be prepared for the argument.

Yes. It has additional special rules.

pretre wrote:

kestral wrote:I've been thinking about it. I usually run Deathwing with a tac squad for objectives. Do you think its worth getting it in a rhino? That way, if I go second, I can place the Rhino up against the deployment zone and if the rhino blows disembark into the other person's deployment zone.

Chances are most opponents can block this if you go second.

Do you think the messenger is a "unique model" for wound allocation? I'm inclined to think not, but need to be prepared for the argument.

Yes. It has additional special rules.

The difference between 40k and fantasy. Models with standards and such die last because someone else picks it up. You would think the same with a message. Hey the guy with the message died. Looks like that will never get delivered. lol!

On a second note: Mission 1 would be so much better and/or cooler if you had to get the messenger to your opponents mail box. Deploy a mail box on each side. That would be fun and challenging. NO MAIL FOR YOU!

Tomb King wrote:The difference between 40k and fantasy. Models with standards and such die last because someone else picks it up. You would think the same with a message. Hey the guy with the message died. Looks like that will never get delivered. lol!

It's all Johnny Mnemonic up in here. If that guy dies, we lose what's in his head.

Tomb King wrote:On a second note: Mission 1 would be so much better and/or cooler if you had to get the messenger to your opponents mail box. Deploy a mail box on each side. That would be fun and challenging. NO MAIL FOR YOU!

I love it...kinda like an inverse capture the flag game!

pretre wrote:

Tomb King wrote:The difference between 40k and fantasy. Models with standards and such die last because someone else picks it up. You would think the same with a message. Hey the guy with the message died. Looks like that will never get delivered. lol!

It's all Johnny Mnemonic up in here. If that guy dies, we lose what's in his head.

Commissar Jennings: That sounds awfully like an informant! *points his bolt pistol at the messenger* Your not an informant are you?
Messenger: *needs new underwear*

pretre wrote:

Dr_Chin wrote:lol I have faced many GK's players and I have only lost 1 game I have won about 7 and drawn none so I am doing good, but this is kind of crazy.

So... Let me get this straight.

Your army has a hard time against one variant of GK, that hardly anyone plays, in one mission deployment type?

Yeah, that mission is super broken.

ok troll

Dr_Chin wrote:

pretre wrote:

Dr_Chin wrote:lol I have faced many GK's players and I have only lost 1 game I have won about 7 and drawn none so I am doing good, but this is kind of crazy.

So... Let me get this straight.

Your army has a hard time against one variant of GK, that hardly anyone plays, in one mission deployment type?

Yeah, that mission is super broken.

ok troll

I'm confused...which one were you calling a troll...

ToI wrote:

Dr_Chin wrote:

pretre wrote:

Dr_Chin wrote:lol I have faced many GK's players and I have only lost 1 game I have won about 7 and drawn none so I am doing good, but this is kind of crazy.

So... Let me get this straight.

Your army has a hard time against one variant of GK, that hardly anyone plays, in one mission deployment type?

Yeah, that mission is super broken.

ok troll

I'm confused...which one were you calling a troll...

I think he was admitting that he was trolling by complaining about one army build targeted to beat his list in one mission being hard to win against.

pretre wrote:

ToI wrote:

Dr_Chin wrote:

pretre wrote:

Dr_Chin wrote:lol I have faced many GK's players and I have only lost 1 game I have won about 7 and drawn none so I am doing good, but this is kind of crazy.

So... Let me get this straight.

Your army has a hard time against one variant of GK, that hardly anyone plays, in one mission deployment type?

Yeah, that mission is super broken.

ok troll

I'm confused...which one were you calling a troll...

I think he was admitting that he was trolling by complaining about one army build targeted to beat his list in one mission being hard to win against.

I sincerely hope so.

Does the rulebook say "rules" or statistics and equipment to create a unique model?

Thinking theoretically, how effective will people going first be in blocking the messenger out of the deployment zone? An ork Troop choice can block the entire board at maximum spread.

kestral wrote:Does the rulebook say "rules" or statistics and equipment to create a unique model?

Thinking theoretically, how effective will people going first be in blocking the messenger out of the deployment zone? An ork Troop choice can block the entire board at maximum spread.

It lists models with different wargear as an example but makes it pretty clear that a model is considered different if what it as an individual does is different in terms of the game.

Also, blocking someone out of your deployment zone isn't exactly the greatest way to go about it, since if you want to put your models into their deployment zone for the bonus points you either have to keep the line and just move up in which case you are probably in range of everything coming in from the board edge and that squad is going to get eaten.

ToI wrote:Also, blocking someone out of your deployment zone isn't exactly the greatest way to go about it, since if you want to put your models into their deployment zone for the bonus points you either have to keep the line and just move up in which case you are probably in range of everything coming in from the board edge and that squad is going to get eaten.

I think you're missing the point. He's not saying permanently barring them from your deployment zone, he's saying using the 18" push to make it much harder to get those +500.

Ok I get what he was getting at now...though I still think running a big long string of guys out along the whole board is just asking for that unit to get shot to bits first turn, even if you do get into the enemy deployment zone...

i don't know. it's a very aggressive way to deploy but if you somehow get seized on it's going to be very bad for you...

Well yeah... lol

But you've still pushed them back 18", which against some slower armies is a loooong ways and can be worth it. Especially since you just need to walk an inch for 500 vps.

pretre wrote:Well yeah... lol

But you've still pushed them back 18", which against some slower armies is a loooong ways and can be worth it. Especially since you just need to walk an inch for 500 vps.

Good point, I guess I'm just stuck on the fact that if you are going first you are probably getting that 1" into the deployment zone, but 80% of your stuff is going to be walking on anyway. I feel like the 1st turn will be duel of the troops choices.

ToI wrote:

pretre wrote:Well yeah... lol

But you've still pushed them back 18", which against some slower armies is a loooong ways and can be worth it. Especially since you just need to walk an inch for 500 vps.

Good point, I guess I'm just stuck on the fact that if you are going first you are probably getting that 1" into the deployment zone, but 80% of your stuff is going to be walking on anyway. I feel like the 1st turn will be duel of the troops choices.

Well, that's the same for any DoW deployment. The idea is that you can get a 500vp advantage on turn 1 if you play it right.

That's a big deal.

indeed, that's like killing a LR and THSS termies inside it by moving a model

pretre wrote:

ToI wrote:

pretre wrote:Well yeah... lol

But you've still pushed them back 18", which against some slower armies is a loooong ways and can be worth it. Especially since you just need to walk an inch for 500 vps.

Good point, I guess I'm just stuck on the fact that if you are going first you are probably getting that 1" into the deployment zone, but 80% of your stuff is going to be walking on anyway. I feel like the 1st turn will be duel of the troops choices.

Well, that's the same for any DoW deployment. The idea is that you can get a 500vp advantage on turn 1 if you play it right.

That's a big deal.

To counter this I am playing my DE with now an auto include Vect! I will steal your initiative and assault your messenger all in the same turn I win which will give my wych messenger FNP

Looks like they errated it again! You now have to have your messenger in their deployment zone on turn 6 to get the bonus points!

No other changes to the third mission yet though.

patrickparker wrote:Looks like they errated it again! You now have to have your messenger in their deployment zone on turn 6 to get the bonus points!

No other changes to the third mission yet though.

Hilariously, they just said "by turn six", which still means you get the bonus if he's inside on turn one. that's "by" turn six, not "during" or "at the end of" turn six.

So on tunr 1 you can deploy 1 HQ and 2 troop units. You must deploy 1 troop (with messenger). As an Eldar player this means 5 DA in a WS with Eldrad. Divination + turn of shooting + mind war = opponents dead messenger. Of course that turn of shooting is 121 S6 shots.

Icon720 wrote:So on tunr 1 you can deploy 1 HQ and 2 troop units. You must deploy 1 troop (with messenger). As an Eldar player this means 5 DA in a WS with Eldrad. Divination + turn of shooting + mind war = opponents dead messenger. Of course that turn of shooting is 121 S6 shots.

Remember it's unmodified dawn of war for the most part...you still have to be able to see your enemy. And if that is what you are deploying they probably will just deploy that messenger way the hell away from your shooty bomb of shootyness