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No Waagh aloud on first turn. As usual Orks have one job on first turn and that is to take it through the nose.

I have bigger problems with mission 1 than I do with mission 2, but I still just dislike the concept of that sort of imbalance. Consider the following:

Platoon 1 - 635?
-Command (Chimera) - 85 points
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
Platoon 2 - 635?
-Command (Chimera) - 85 points
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?

That's 1,270 points, only slightly more than half of the Imperial Guard list not including any upgrades, and they already have 12 scoring units. In order to prevent a massacre I have to kill at a minimum 830 points of troops spread across 8 units in Chimeras (included in the cost because I have to open them up). If I have 6 full packs of Grey Hunters with a Wolf Guard in each pack, they have to at max kill two units worth a total of 456 points, and I can no longer get a massacre, even if I wipe them clean off the table. How is that at all fair, especially when the other 1,230 points of their list is ordnance and vet squads in Vendettas. If they get the first turn I likely won't be able to move out of my deployment zone for all the shaken, stunned and destroyed vehicles. I fair a little better going first, but it's still an uphill battle if those transports are hugging their deployment zone until turn 4.

It's an unbalanced scenario, if not quite as unbalanced as Mission 1.

Aldarionn wrote:If they get the first turn I likely won't be able to move out of my deployment zone for all the shaken, stunned and destroyed vehicles. I fair a little better going first, but it's still an uphill battle if those transports are hugging their deployment zone until turn 4.

well for starters you are only required to start with a single troop on the board according to the scenario, and only ABLE to deploy 1 HQ and 2 Troops, and if they have first you get the advantage of seeing them deploy and stay far from them (night fight for first turn in DoW)...All together the key is to not try to beat them at their own game, you need to use your mobility to get to them and run them through. Honestly the advantages you listed are the same types of advantages that IG has in everyother game. In a long range slugfest IG wins, don't try to beat them at that game, change the game and get up close. This game has some elements of "roll a die and win/lose" but you can give yourself the advantage if you play well. This of course (as said previously) is not to say that the scenarios are balanced, but I would rather see a mission like 2 where it will probably end up being a draw fest and a few may get larger victories, than many other missions I have seen.

Frankly, all the missions scream Drop Pod mass marines to me. A wall of drops pods to protect the entry on mission 1, a pile of drop pods landing on the object mission two, and Mission 3 it's tough for that build either.

Personally I despise missions like mission 2. If a deathstar has turn two, it's a forced gauntlet for the player 1 to survive. Thundercav have a field day there.

I was looking at DA for mission 2. An all Raven wing army can take 24 scoring units, but then again you would have to take all ravening. 6 Bikers + ATB + speeder + combat squads= 4 scoring units per a troop slot. We used to play mission 2 alot at a local store for tournaments and IG were not a problem. They have to move across the table and they do not last long moving or out of chimeras. I would hate to draw against Nids on this one. They can swarm the center with troops and make new ones. Even with a tank shock on the last turn you can’t push away enough bugs.

BlueDagger wrote:Frankly, all the missions scream Drop Pod mass marines to me. A wall of drops pods to protect the entry on mission 1, a pile of drop pods landing on the object mission two, and Mission 3 it's tough for that build either.

Personally I despise missions like mission 2. If a deathstar has turn two, it's a forced gauntlet for the player 1 to survive. Thundercav have a field day there.

I seriously thought about it...you could completely deny entry to the board on turn 1 if you got solidly lucky with your scatter rolls...but alas I would run something like 11 pods and I don't have that many...or that many marines to run them...

Aldarionn wrote:I have bigger problems with mission 1 than I do with mission 2, but I still just dislike the concept of that sort of imbalance. Consider the following:

Platoon 1 - 635?
-Command (Chimera) - 85 points
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
Platoon 2 - 635?
-Command (Chimera) - 85 points
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?
-Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Chimer) - 110?

That's 1,270 points, only slightly more than half of the Imperial Guard list not including any upgrades, and they already have 12 scoring units.

Please bring this list.

If I owned Imperial Guard I might just do that to test my own theory. I'm not saying its a sure thing. I'm just saying it has certain advantages with the current scenarios, especially with only a 1/3 chance that KP's will even appear in the event at all.

Also, that's a pile of Autocannon and Scatter Laser/Heavy Bolter shots that can annoy Rhino lists from 36-48" away, which is not anywhere as bad as your comment makes it out to be. It won't bring down Land Raiders, but there are plenty of other toys Imperial Guard can bring that will.

Aldarionn wrote:If I owned Imperial Guard I might just do that to test my own theory. I'm not saying its a sure thing. I'm just saying it has certain advantages with the current scenarios, especially with only a 1/3 chance that KP's will even appear in the event at all.

Also, that's a pile of Autocannon and Scatter Laser/Heavy Bolter shots that can annoy Rhino lists from 36-48" away, which is not anywhere as bad as your comment makes it out to be. It won't bring down Land Raiders, but there are plenty of other toys Imperial Guard can bring that will.

I'm not saying it is bad. I'm just saying that I would much prefer to face that than pretty much any other list that I've seen for 'AB. (Other than the 80 warriors, 2 lords, 3 monoliths list, but I think that was a joke.)

I don't play this since GW is clealry not interested in opening a shop in Poland, but I was wondering if Brother Corbulo could be used to reroll the mission type roll in Mission 3. If so, then, well, pretty strong pick.

Alkasyn wrote:I don't play this since GW is clealry not interested in opening a shop in Poland, but I was wondering if Brother Corbulo could be used to reroll the mission type roll in Mission 3. If so, then, well, pretty strong pick.

Nope.)

Wow I totally did not know that orks could not wagh on the first turn... That changes how I play them in the future, thanks!

I just played scenario 2 with razorback blood angels against deathwing. They both have 6 troop choices and I barely won the match by a 2-1 in scoring units within 6in. How am I suppose get a massacre if it was a bloodfest? It felt almost impossible to win by a score of 5-0. Plus there was less than 10 models left on the BA side with 2 immobile razors and the DW had Belial and 3 terminators left with 1 immobile pred and 2 good preds left. Im just gonna go for a win on this mission no matter how big or small the margin is.

Looks like Scenario 3 has been updated for the quarters (controlling them, not the scoring if you hold two more than your opponent)

lance002 wrote:Looks like Scenario 3 has been updated for the quarters (controlling them, not the scoring if you hold two more than your opponent)

They also posted winners from the first round. The store I played at is not listed as well as its top 3. What gives? Hope this wont stop us from competing.


"To control a table quarter you must have more scoring units entirely within that quarter than your opponent.
Scoring units that are in two or more quarters cannot hold any quarters."

GW your joking right. Hope you all dont mess up your moves and have one over the line. They could just say they capture the corner they have the majority in. Now if you have centralized terrain and the game runs out of time you can lose scoring units to being unable to hold quarters lmao. This mission just keeps getting better and better!

Tomb King wrote:

lance002 wrote:Looks like Scenario 3 has been updated for the quarters (controlling them, not the scoring if you hold two more than your opponent)

They also posted winners from the first round. The store I played at is not listed as well as its top 3. What gives? Hope this wont stop us from competing.

Mines the same way. I would guess that it shouldn't be an issue. However it is concerning.

On the bright side they updated the deployment type for the first mission to pitched battle!

Luckily my store is somehow on there.

Updated deployment type is pretty sweet, pitched battle makes my life for daemons really nice. I dare people to come across the board. I actually think daemons will do quite well in all scenarios as long as I dont run into Nick N again...

new errata for scenaroes is up
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1960055a_Ard_Boyz_Semi-Final_Scenarios_09-06-2011

fix # 1 2 and 3

TK - thats a common rule for quarters scoring. Stops stupidity like one unit scoring 4 quarters. Just plan ahead and dont make moves that expose you to that risk.

Gah, can they fix the typo? Its "Daemon" or "Demon", not "Deamon"

At least scenario 1 is now pitched battle, much better.

Yet still odd that Scouts is not listed, but Outflank is...so you cannot Scout move but can use Scouts to Outflank? They need to be clearer on that for all missions. Seems odd to just flat deny Scouts....

Suprised no DoW set up any longer - mission 2 seems ideal for that

nosferatu1001 wrote:TK - thats a common rule for quarters scoring. Stops stupidity like one unit scoring 4 quarters. Just plan ahead and dont make moves that expose you to that risk.

Gah, can they fix the typo? Its "Daemon" or "Demon", not "Deamon"

At least scenario 1 is now pitched battle, much better.

Yet still odd that Scouts is not listed, but Outflank is...so you cannot Scout move but can use Scouts to Outflank? They need to be clearer on that for all missions. Seems odd to just flat deny Scouts....

Suprised no DoW set up any longer - mission 2 seems ideal for that

Scout is a USR. It is only disallowed for the messengers transport in game 1. "The unit can be deployed
in a vehicle with transport capacity but that vehicle cannot scout, infiltrate, outflank or deep strike."

TK - so what if its a USR?

Special Rules:
Infiltrate (page 92)
Deep Strike (page 95)
Outflank (Page 94)
Reserves (page 94)
Seize the Initiative (Page 92)

Infiltrate is a USR, yet is explicitly allowed. As I said, if you read more closely, they need to explain *exactly* what they mean - by including a USR on a list of special rules it implies that other special rules may not be in play

Just because Infiltrate is listed INCORRECTLY as a mission special rule doesnt mean the same must apply for a USR such as Scouts.

I dont see Furious charge, Relentless or Stealth in those rules either but Im pretty sure they're allowed

As far as Im concerned (and the pittsburgh semis is concerned) unless specifically dissallowed by the rules Infiltrate and Scouts is always in effect and so is Outflank as long as Reserves is in the game. Every year GW shows us they don't really play 5th ed by the mission rules they've written

Kirasu wrote:Just because Infiltrate is listed INCORRECTLY as a mission special rule doesnt mean the same must apply for a USR such as Scouts.

I dont see Furious charge, Relentless or Stealth in those rules either but Im pretty sure they're allowed

As far as Im concerned (and the pittsburgh semis is concerned) unless specifically dissallowed by the rules Infiltrate and Scouts is always in effect and so is Outflank as long as Reserves is in the game. Every year GW shows us they don't really play 5th ed by the mission rules they've written

I agree with everything you said except for Outflank. I see it as if the mission does not specify the use of outflank then you must assume no outflank as it is a special rule that can be included or excluded, not one inherent to any particular scenario. I might be wrong on that but that's how I've seen it. However yes, scouts is in effect because it's a USR much like furious charge and feel no pain, and I'm 150% certain that anyone that is going to argue the use of scouts is going to have a USR that they use that they wouldn't be so happy giving up on the precedent of no USRs.

Clauss wrote:Luckily my store is somehow on there.

Updated deployment type is pretty sweet, pitched battle makes my life for daemons really nice. I dare people to come across the board. I actually think daemons will do quite well in all scenarios as long as I dont run into Nick N again...

My store is not on there, wtf....I better be going to semi's

Dannygee wrote:

Clauss wrote:Luckily my store is somehow on there.

Updated deployment type is pretty sweet, pitched battle makes my life for daemons really nice. I dare people to come across the board. I actually think daemons will do quite well in all scenarios as long as I dont run into Nick N again...

My store is not on there, wtf....I better be going to semi's

I'm guessing it was some chump getting paid less than he would like doing the transcription and he missed a bunch of stores...god knows there were a lot of them.

Stores missing from the winners list is not uncommon at all. They just get lazy.

My store is on there, they just have three winners listed that never played at that store....?????? Guess GW better prepare for a lot of phone calls today...

Maybe your tournament information got all jumbled up in the united states postal warp?

ToI wrote:I agree with everything you said except for Outflank. I see it as if the mission does not specify the use of outflank then you must assume no outflank as it is a special rule that can be included or excluded, not one inherent to any particular scenario. I might be wrong on that but that's how I've seen it.

Outflank is part of the Reserves rule, not a rule unto itself.

My store is on there, with me in the proper placement, but they spelled my name wrong.