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Ketara wrote:Does this look like OT guys?

I may disagree with Luna on whether this thread should be hashed out again, but its seriously disrespectful to purposefully drag someone's topic off thread...

OK Ketara, I thought sharing a bit of clever humor was good natured, and that people enjoyed it in a positive way, but after your post I will instead say this.

Debating 'what piracy is' and the context of that list is obvious flame bait, and this thread is silly because it's an invitation to subjective controversy with no real addition to the gaming topic and point of the forum.

Was that really better, than subtly injecting a little humor?

*SPELL EDIT

Augustus wrote:

Ketara wrote:Does this look like OT guys?

I may disagree with Luna on whether this thread should be hashed out again, but its seriously disrespectful to purposefully drag someone's topic off thread...

OK Ketara, I thought sharing a bit of clever humor was good natured, and that people enjoyed it in a positive way, but after your post I will instead say this.

Debating 'what piracy is' and the context of that list is obvious flame bait, and this thread is silly because it's an invitation to subjective controversy with no real addition to the gaming topic and point of the forum.

Was that really better, than subtly injecting a little humor?

*SPELL EDIT

Like I said, I think the thread is silly too. And nothing wrong with injecting some humour.

It's just the joke was made on page 1. When it's been made another four times on page 2 in rapid succession, that's veering very rapidly away from 'a little humour' into 'spam and OT'.

@ Lunahound

Since Canada shares its government similar to the UK's here is the information policy and fair use when it comes to the UK

http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law

Here is the Canadian version

http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/Home

My studies in information policy did help in finding this stuff. Anything else let me know.

thehod wrote:@ Lunahound

Since Canada shares its government similar to the UK's here is the information policy and fair use when it comes to the UK

http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law

Here is the Canadian version

http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/Home

My studies in information policy did help in finding this stuff. Anything else let me know.

Thank you! From reading this i have another question.
What ( if ) 2 countries A and B have different laws on the same issue?
For example its illegal in B, but legal in A. So someone from country B goes to country A to do the illegal stuff?

Will the criminal in country B be accountable in a foreign country where the law says its legal?

LunaHound wrote:

Thank you! From reading this i have another question.
What ( if ) 2 countries A and B have different laws on the same issue?
For example its illegal in B, but legal in A. So someone from country B goes to country A to do the illegal stuff?

Will the criminal in country B be accountable in a foreign country where the law says its legal?

The first thing that came to mind when reading your post, Luna, was that you were fishing for ways to bend the law. Not saying you are I am merely saying that was the impression I got from your quote above.

Threads of this nature often make me uncomfortable because the discussion turns into a sort of guide book for people interested in starting up pirating operations of their own. Having been in in-depth discussions regarding counterfeiting miniatures on other gaming forums I always find the topic fascinating, and I take a keen interest in the subject as a collector of OOP miniatures (because pirated figures devalue my collections), but I am always left wondering if the act of discussing this topic doesn't provide some people with knowledge that will eventually assist them in making counterfeits of their own.

Again, I am not stating that is your intent, but your hypothetical scenario above set off red flags in my paranoid mind.

DarkTraveler777 wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Thank you! From reading this i have another question.
What ( if ) 2 countries A and B have different laws on the same issue?
For example its illegal in B, but legal in A. So someone from country B goes to country A to do the illegal stuff?

Will the criminal in country B be accountable in a foreign country where the law says its legal?

The first thing that came to mind when reading your post, Luna, was that you were fishing for ways to bend the law. Not saying you are I am merely saying that was the impression I got from your quote above.

Threads of this nature often make me uncomfortable because the discussion turns into a sort of guide book for people interested in starting up pirating operations of their own. Having been in in-depth discussions regarding counterfeiting miniatures on other gaming forums I always find the topic fascinating, and I take a keen interest in the subject as a collector of OOP miniatures (because pirated figures devalue my collections), but I am always left wondering if the act of discussing this topic doesn't provide some people with knowledge that will eventually assist them in making counterfeits of their own.

Again, I am not stating that is your intent, but your hypothetical scenario above set off red flags in my paranoid mind.

No, i think its very normal for the red flag. Because i had no intention other then pure curiosity to ask the question, i sort of missed it myself.
So don't worry about it you are very normal xD . the hypothetical question is closer to my curiosity to this one...

"for what reason can counterfeiters in China get away with it so easily"
This question is what created my question above, because there must be some sort of loop hole or difference in the law
that allow them to thrive.

Truth be told, there are accusations back in page 1 and page 2 regarding the creation of this thread.
Here is the actual reason why i created, at first i thought it wasn't their business, but im sort of agitated to be falsely accused.

It all started with this:
I love Black Rock Shooter, thats right my old avatars with a flaming blue eye is BRS.
I wanted to buy a figurine, and this showed up: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEXY-FINGER-FIGMA-BLACK-ROCK-SHOOTER-DEAD-MASTER-SP-013-/190534017848?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5cb66338
Then i was like WTH IS SEXY FINGER???? so i looked at the seller ratings. 6930 at 99.5%, thats REALLY impressive. Didn't have much complaints about the authenticity.
Then i scrolled down.... to Item Description: Not Authentic,Chinese Edition,but Fine Workmanship.
THIS is when the question popped up that i must ask. How does a seller that admits to counterfeit get away with it on ebay?????

There, mystery solved.

Oh! That makes much more sense.

Thank you for letting us know. (because really, you have to admit, "I'm just curious about what I'd have to do to get around copyright laws" does raise red flags, as the lack of tone in text gives a false vibe you might not be trying to use, especially given the past theads you've been involved in.)

It's possible their laws are less strict or have some way to manufacture/disrepute without getting connected to it.

Last year in a trade I ended up with an obvious FW recast. What should I do with it?

I know GW will often replace fakes if you shop the seller but I have no idea where he is - I know he doesnt live at the same address as in addition to this model, I was owed some others but he has disappeared (and taken my side of the trade with him).

Now whilst this recast is a fake and the quality isnt perfect, with some work (probably quite a bit of work) it could be useable.

So do I take the moral high ground and lose out or do I fix it up and keep it for myself? (note I am not talking about selling this on or attempting to profit from it).

The only other option being to bin it.

sleazy wrote:Last year in a trade I ended up with an obvious FW recast. What should I do with it?

I know GW will often replace fakes if you shop the seller but I have no idea where he is - I know he doesnt live at the same address as in addition to this model, I was owed some others but he has disappeared (and taken my side of the trade with him).

Now whilst this recast is a fake and the quality isnt perfect, with some work (probably quite a bit of work) it could be useable.

So do I take the moral high ground and lose out or do I fix it up and keep it for myself? (note I am not talking about selling this on or attempting to profit from it).

The only other option being to bin it.

I know one company that recastst Forge World, GW, Rackam and some other companies miniatures, which is located in China. It might be where your recast is from. I'd keep the recast and even use if you paid something for it.

sleazy wrote:Last year in a trade I ended up with an obvious FW recast. What should I do with it?

I know GW will often replace fakes if you shop the seller but I have no idea where he is - I know he doesnt live at the same address as in addition to this model, I was owed some others but he has disappeared (and taken my side of the trade with him).

Now whilst this recast is a fake and the quality isnt perfect, with some work (probably quite a bit of work) it could be useable.

So do I take the moral high ground and lose out or do I fix it up and keep it for myself? (note I am not talking about selling this on or attempting to profit from it).

The only other option being to bin it.

If it was an informal trade with no paper trail other than a couple of PM's on Dakka (or suchlike) and a now vacant address, then I'm sorry to say that fraud such as this is amongst the risks of doing trades with strangers on the internet without a very well established trading site with safeguards and guarantees (such as eBay) as a middleman.

Oh I agree Lindsay40k. I'm not bitchin and cryin about it. I just wonder what others would do when the choice is bin it or use it?

I didnt want a recast model but that is what I've got, I lost a decent amount to get it too.

I reckon I'll use my myself. I dont game instore or at tourneys so I'd say I'm just trying to make the most out of a crappy situation.

LunaHound wrote:What ( if ) 2 countries A and B have different laws on the same issue?
For example its illegal in B, but legal in A. So someone from country B goes to country A to do the illegal stuff?

Will the criminal in country B be accountable in a foreign country where the law says its legal?

Generally no, although some countries have extraterritorial jurisdiction on some laws. For instance, UK citizens can be charged for sexual offences against children, murder, manslaughter, fraud, dishonesty, terrorism or bribery regardless of where in the world they do it.

Of course, if it's illegal in your country to clone IP even for private study (unlikely, as this would mean students would not be allowed to photocopy a page in a journal or newspaper, or 3D scan a sprue to learn about digital casting), and you fly to the UK to recast a SM chapter, then taking those recasts home could still fall under the native antipiracy laws. The act of cloning might have happened abroad, but knowingly importing and/or possessing clones could still be illegal.

LunaHound wrote:What ( if ) 2 countries A and B have different laws on the same issue?
For example its illegal in B, but legal in A. So someone from country B goes to country A to do the illegal stuff?

Will the criminal in country B be accountable in a foreign country where the law says its legal?

Generally you're only responsible for laws in the country where you are currently living/staying. However, some countries have laws that extend across boarders, either by international treaty or by virtue of your citizenship. For example, U.S. Expatriates living abroad are still required to file IRS tax forms. International treaties also allow the US to prosecute slavery, piracy and other human rights abuses.

Copyright generally doesn't have any cross-border authority - if a company infringes your work in China, you need to go to China to sue them. So how do countries keep out all of the counterfeit goods? Copyright law, in addition to prohibiting the sale or manufacture of infringing goods, also prohibits the importation of infringing goods.

LunaHound wrote:"for what reason can counterfeiters in China get away with it so easily"
This question is what created my question above, because there must be some sort of loop hole or difference in the law
that allow them to thrive.

The reason counterfeiters in China get away with it so easy is because copyright infringement is easy, there's a huge market for counterfeit goods, and China is not a very easy legal environment to enter. Their officials are pretty lax on defending international IP law as a criminal matter.

LunaHound wrote:How does a seller that admits to counterfeit get away with it on ebay?

Ebay tends to take down these listings. They don't like being associated with counterfeit goods. But they get away with the counterfeit goods in China because of lax enforcement.

Interestingly, if you were to purchase and receive that toy you would probably be liable for copyright infringement.

Note that this avoids the entire issue of "will I get caught".

In the great seafaring tradition, piracy always has been and always will be legal...untill you get caught

LunaHound wrote:THIS is when the question popped up that i must ask. How does a seller that admits to counterfeit get away with it on ebay?????

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html
http://pages.ebay.com/againstcounterfeits/index.html

Don't buy from this user: ... he sells recasts of GW's metal miniatures, FW and even limited edition harry the hammers!
This is his website ...

Links redacted by Moderator.

Any more illegal website you want to link to?

Kroothawk wrote:Any more illegal website you want to link to?

Implies hat there are illegal website in the web.

No such thing as an illegal website (I think) just illegal activity contained on them. Like how paper is legal, the text on it a different matter entirely.


Also wasn't BRS kind of popular before, it seems to have come back a lot lately? Last time I heard of it it was just a song, now seems to have a game and such to it.

n0t_u wrote:No such thing as an illegal website (I think) just illegal activity contained on them. Like how paper is legal, the text on it a different matter entirely.


Also wasn't BRS kind of popular before, it seems to have come back a lot lately? Last time I heard of it it was just a song, now seems to have a game and such to it.

Yep! it started with just a cool drawing, now its full blown to surpass the products of any anime char.