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nectarprime wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:

Such as.. painting GW figures and selling them on Ebay for profit?

You advocate 24-7 jobsearch then? Jobsearching even when the rest of the nation is not at work?

I honestly don't see how someone could make a fulltime paying job out of painting minis. Please prove me wrong.

As for job searching, I know there's only so much that a person can do to find one. But if you really do want a job, you will continue to look no matter how long it takes. If you don't want a job, you will find endless excuses as to why you have not found one yet.

@ bold: How about the entire staff of the Eavy Metal department at GW? I know a guy who works there, and its his job. Painting little men. (Or it was until he got bumped up to the art department..but surely nobody can make a living drawing pictures of little toy soldiers??!!)

How many jobs do you think one can apply for in a given day? How many jobs do you think there are in a given area? Where I live, 30 posts at a new store received 500 applications. Suffice to say, most of them did not get a job out of it. In the current climate there really are limited job opportunities, especially in a country that has 20,000 less businesses in it than it did a decade ago, is downsizing its entire public sector (flooding the jobmarket with skilled and experienced workers) and giving away what is left of its industry to overseas concerns. I don't know about over there, but over here it isn't all that easy anymore. Judging from some of the media reports that do get out from "The Land of the Free", seems that its not so easy to just "get a job" there either. Our Macdonalds are full of degree-holders for a reason. So are yours.


Also, People who are paid to work don't work 24-7 and are not expected to work 24-7 , so its a bit rich to expect 24-7 work from people who are surviving on sub-minimum wage.

guyperson5 wrote:Please help me in my urge to make GW prices lower. In Aus, they expect us to buy a (small) paint pot for $6 and $103 for a Land Raider.
Also Terminator Squads cost $74 and all you get is a five little plastic men . I urge you to email Games Workshop about the prices.
End ramble

Edited and posted to remind people what the thread is really about.

Easy fix,Buy from ebay stores.Money is money theese days.If Gw wants stupid prices go on the web and find somebody who does not car about Gw embargo.Aka ebay stores.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:

And the equating is fail, because of the massive price disparity. If you are lucky enough to have a job where you can afford a luxury sports car, and then unlucky enough to lose that job and join the ranks of "scroungers" (because yes, even if you have been gainfully employed beforehand, you are still tarred with the same lie-brush) then you are probably taking a massive cut in wages. The drop from lower wages is much smaller, so a more realistic comparison serves better. Comparing things most of us will never have to some plastic toys is ridiculous. Some people are so poor that they can't afford to be in the places where they could look at a premium sports car. Should the poor feel some empathy when they are told that rich people can't afford to have that second private jet?

Begrudging people a touch of escapism and colour from the dreary soul-destroying monotony of long term unemployment is frankly callous. Especially during a global recession where there are few jobs for people who have skill-sets, training, experience and a good CV, (resume?) never mind anyone else. Of course I'm in the UK, where we have a functioning welfare state, and (at least for now) state-funded healthcare for even the poorest. I imagine that's Utopian compared to living in a modern and civilised first-world superpower that allows its citizens to die of treatable ailments because they are poor.

Well a Mustang or Camero which cost between $35,000 and $45,000 depending on upgrades is hardly unreachable, but it does come with a trade off. So comparing owning a Sports car with buying GW products is comparable.

The bold part is wrong on so many levels. People are not begrudging people an escape, nor a hobby. People begrudge once a group starts crying foul because they can't afford the same things as better off people. I work and like to play golf, but I can't afford a membership to a country club. Should I complain to them about their fees? Should I demand they lower the cost of membership so I can have the same oppertunities of the CEO's that play there? After all I can still go play on public courses. But it's not the same thing. Just like I can buy cheaper company models so I can still paint and have a hobby.

col. krazy kenny wrote:Easy fix,Buy from ebay stores.Money is money theese days.If Gw wants stupid prices go on the web and find somebody who does not car about Gw embargo.Aka ebay stores.

How does ebay work for getting stuff for cheap?

If different people all want the same "cheap" auction, wouldn't it just climb up?
Factor in Aussies's base price is already 50% more expensive, wouldn't the bids sky rocket from that as well?

One thing to consider is that GW used be dirt cheap, I remember being able to buy a tactical squad for a tenner, and I don't think there was a huge difference between what you get in the pack then and now. Prices have risen over the last ten years to a (debatedly) extortionate amount and it's a matter of you can afford it or you can't.

Country clubs have always meant to be expensive though, to ensure that "the riff raff" don't get in.

But some things have always been out of the reach of "the poor", and been safely ensconced in privilege. (Country Club membership being a very obvious one.) Whether that is "right" or not is a different, slightly Communist argument, involving such issues as how much it actually costs to stick some holes in a field. GW was the realm of "pocket money" prices.. costs that could be safely absorbed by a paper-round, or saving up "sweets money". "The poor" could and did play it. It was a cheaper and more creative hobby than many others. Country Club golf was always some gold-plated exclusivity monster, which GW has now become despite being exactly the same thing as it was 30 years ago, but with cheaper materials. Its fair to complain that something that has seen no substantial increase in value should be priced out of the reach of the lowest wage-bands. Even more so when you deliberately over-price it for a whole nation, arbitrarily.

And still, not one good point as to how the car analogy is not correct.

In conclusion, I would like to say that I do feel for those of you who are out of a job right now, and I wish it was easier for you folks to enjoy the hobby. I really wish GW would change but they won't.

nectarprime wrote:And still, not one good point as to how the car analogy is not correct.

Because luxury cars are out of the price range of most individuals. GW (until it started ramping up its prices) products were not. The problem people have is not "I can't afford this thing I've never been able to afford anyway." The problem is "I can no longer afford this thing that I used to be able to afford, for no other reason than the personal greed of the shareholders."

<stay on topic>

Anyone care to explain Gillard's 'fair price laws', and how it relates to GWOZ? I've not heard of any 'fair price' legislation before.

Is this some sort of (typically) reactionary law to appease the retail sector over the strength of the Aussie dollar (not that it's as strong right now as it was a month ago), or something else?

guyperson5 wrote:Please help me in my urge to make GW prices lower. In Aus, they expect us to buy a (small) paint pot for $6 and $103 for a Land Raider. How are kids or unemployed people meant to get that much money? Also Terminator Squads cost $74 and all you get is a five little plastic men . I urge you to email Games Workshop about the prices.
End ramble

Stop playing and move on to other gaming.

GW's idea that they actually want you as a customer is a joke. Add it to the finecrap, and you have a great excuse to move on.

You know that you and I see eye-to-eye on most things Grot, but ‘move onto something else’ isn’t really a good solution. Some people only play 40K and not because they don’t know about anything else because they genuinely like it and don’t feel the need or desire to start a new game.

Take me as an example. I fully acknowledge that 40K is a terrible game with slapdash rule set that could do with a major overhaul. I also acknowledge that GW is a company that seemingly has no clue when it comes to business decisions (embargo, Failcost hyperbole, absurd pricing structure, focus on short-term profits with no eye to the future, etc.) – but y’know what? I like the 40K universe, and I don’t care if Warmachine or Malifaux are better games because I don’t have any interest in the universes the games inhabit. We’ve mostly switched over to FFG’s RPG’s rather than 40K-proper as, to quite a friend of mine, games of that feel like how games of 40K should feel. The only game outside of 40K related games that I play (excluding Warhammer Quest) is BattleTech, and, again, it’s because I love the universe (thankfully BTech’s rules are a lot better... but sadly the models are not). The only ‘new game’ I’ve branched out to in recent years is my pre-order for Soda Pop’s Super Dungeon Explore.

Disliking the company in charge doesn’t make for a compelling argument to throw it all away and search for greener pastures.

I'm sorry guys, but all of this talk of sports cars and GW has left me with a craving that I know can only be satisfied in one way:



Ahem.. sorry about that.

I think going back to the OP, a point which has been forgotten in the maelstrom, the price increases are gradually pushing more and more people out of the hobby. That much is inarguable. The ridiculous decision to make Aus prices linked to long out of date exchange rates has meant that that part of the world is simply ahead of the curve in terms of what the rest of us can expect to pay, although no doubt other places will catch up in time.

Because luxury cars are out of the price range of most individuals. GW (until it started ramping up its prices) products were not. The problem people have is not "I can't afford this thing I've never been able to afford anyway." The problem is "I can no longer afford this thing that I used to be able to afford, for no other reason than the personal greed of the shareholders."

While your final point is a different issue entirely, I agree with the first one you have made. GW games used to be far, far more easily accessible to those with a modest budget. These days, there is no skirmish or introductory board game option provided by the company, and seemingly nothing short of a massive horde of infantry and tanks/monsters on the tabletop will do if you collect in a way that both the rules systems and White Dwarf encourage. Certainly, getting into the hobby these days is a far more intimidating prospect for parents than when I was a child.

The game was never that accessible to "unemployed" people, no matter what era you played in. However, being a kid does not mean you have no income.. it means your income is dependent on your parents. PLENTY of kids have a lot of warhammer models

Most hobbies arent that accessible to the very poor, warhammer is no different. Is it overly expensive now? Probably but you DO have the option to buy everything used

I grew up without much money surrounded by much more wealthy kids and I kept up. You gotta learn to trade and buy stuff used.. Ebay is great, so is barter town. Making friends with a rich kid who plays the armies you like also helps when he gets bored :p

Again the point is not that is it is an expensive hobby, but for some crazy reason, it is relatively even more expensive in Australia.
Even allowing for possible excuses for transportation (ahem) and exchange rates, it is an expensive hobby PLUS. The plus being loads more dollars than the UK and USA are paying.

And we still await an explaination of this Fair Price comment

Transportation is just an excuse used by GW and pro GW group.
Maelstrom and Wayland have no issue with shipping that far yet GW insist on giving them embargo.

GW even uses the transportation excuse as a reason why the realm of battle board is 50$ more in the US (Or it was anyway).. despite having a factory here!

At the OP: I keep wanting to post "You must be new here..." and I've avoided it. But seriously...the only way to get GW to lower prices is for everyone to boycott. Not for a day. Not for a week. Not for a month. A year. If everyone stopped buying for a year, they'd have to listen. Is it possible? No. Nerds need their crack. But asking people to help you send an email is futile and won't work-it's been discussed to death already-hence questioning if you are new.

And as for the argument of "unemployed being able to afford it," well...I was living at poverty level for months during grad school. I had no options to spend money other than necessity to survive and pay bills. Did I buy any warhammer during that time? Nope, not a model. And I'm heavily addicted to it. Warhammer is a "want," not a "need." Hobbies are needed (otherwise you go stark-raving bonkers), but Warhammer may not be the best option. Nobody is saying to avoid hobbies. They are suggesting to avoid Warhammer, as it is not cost effective for everybody.

timetowaste85 wrote:At the OP: I keep wanting to post "You must be new here..." and I've avoided it. But seriously...the only way to get GW to lower prices is for everyone to boycott. Not for a day. Not for a week. Not for a month. A year. If everyone stopped buying for a year, they'd have to listen. Is it possible? No. Nerds need their crack. But asking people to help you send an email is futile and won't work-it's been discussed to death already-hence questioning if you are new.

And as for the argument of "unemployed being able to afford it," well...I was living at poverty level for months during grad school. I had no options to spend money other than necessity to survive and pay bills. Did I buy any warhammer during that time? Nope, not a model. And I'm heavily addicted to it. Warhammer is a "want," not a "need." Hobbies are needed (otherwise you go stark-raving bonkers), but Warhammer may not be the best option. Nobody is saying to avoid hobbies. They are suggesting to avoid Warhammer, as it is not cost effective for everybody.

Amen!

Buy Mantic Games miniatures and use them as GW proxy.

As of today, I finished checking every US seller, they cant sell out of USA, not even to Canada.

Well ...................... now what.

All the US sellers, Luna?

H.B.M.C. wrote:There is no need to buy from anywhere in Australia.

Are those AUD prices? If so, like it, a direct stick the finger to GW policy.

They're US prices, so roughly 1:1 depending on what day of the week it is. And their supply isn't coming direct from GW from what I understand, rather a middleman supplier, so they can sell them to whomever and in whatever manner they please.

H.B.M.C. wrote:They're US prices, so roughly 1:1 depending on what day of the week it is. And their supply isn't coming direct from GW from what I understand, rather a middleman supplier, so they can sell them to whomever and in whatever manner they please.

No need. the middleman is there to keep GW from refusing to sell to Dicebucket, which the only thing still in their power to do to stop them.
Dicebucket is acting legally because they are a second hand goods seller. Second hand goods are not subject to sellers terms and conditions in fact with notable exceptions such as underwear there are no legislations or restrictions at all. GW has no legal right to interfere with the sale of unboxed items, as far as the law is concerned whoever unboxes the product is the end user, and any subsequent sale is of second hand goods. This is the real reason why the boxes are chucked. Although it does also result in a genuine postal saving, I had all my US purchases for AT-43 directed to a US adress for depackaging and it resulted in a huge saving.

A few months ago we discussed how e-tailers would get around GW's ban on selling to Oz. Dicebucket is doing precisely what I predicted would happen right down to masking purchases and GW cannot do a thing about it.

Other option is to just buy them, sell them at a lower price to each other, Trade/ Swap them between each oter, pull them out of the box and sell them by sprue, and even so much as to intentionally go put a few together, halfway, and just put them in baggies and sell them that way.

That milflove goes a long way in helping to lower the price as well. You can go aroround, snatch up the stuff of the feebay, craigs list, and here, and resell it between what you pick up, trade, or find, you can more or less start selling kits off the cuff.

Seeing as it would theroeticly be third hand, I see no reason to not sell it as a lower price. GW can Blow, they have no leg to stand on in thrid hand markets.

Oz, some of you should take note.

I could see a very good market in your areas in doing this. Yes, there might be a little more legwork, but in a month or so, as GW keeps peeing on thier shoes, someone could easily get together with a couple of dudes and make this happen.

You put it in a regular place, such as over here in the swap shop, or an add in barter town and you have a steady flowing goldmine.

H.B.M.C. I had to rethink your position on that, and this is as near as I could come up with as a solution. Your point is well taken, seeing as I am going through this sort of a split personality fight myself.

Loves me some RT, Hate me some GW.

The other option is to deep dive off of were ever that ship went down with those loads of GW minis, and try to raise the titanic, but this was a better option.

Buy Mantic.

Problem solved.

Alternatively, rant at GW because you hate their prices, then rant at mantic because you hate their models, then cry yourself to sleep before buying a new plastic giant the next day.

Grot 6 wrote:Other option is to just buy them, sell them at a lower price to each other, Trade/ Swap them between each oter, pull them out of the box and sell them by sprue, and even so much as to intentionally go put a few together, halfway, and just put them in baggies and sell them that way.

A simplified corporate version of that is what I beleive is happening. Though swaps are nort feasible, instead agreement for some companies to buy from GW and where permitted, others take a little mark up hit on resale but get markets outside those GW sales terms allows. To remain legal the resellers themselves must make the product legally second hand in some fashion and their purchase must be in a geographic location the direct order suppliers can sell to under current conditions ie.e in US, Canada or Europe.

GW is stuffed because its a UK company and it is operating under that Data Protection Act, as are its primary suppliers.

All the suppliers need do is jump through GW's hoops and sell only where they are allowed, which includes a mask adress for companies like Dicebucket. GW cannot ask if a company is selling to Dicebucket because that is against Data Protection legislation. You or I might also be buying from the same online retailer, we have rights under Uk law even if the payee adress is outside the UK.

As possible comfort to HBMC and other antipodean buyers stung by GW's inept and insidious policy changes, perhaps (and this is not a finger pointing) perhaps Maelstrom or another well known e-tailer is selling to Dicebucket, and will get away with it because buyers like HMBC have their right not to have their purchase details shared with a third party under law. Maybe the same sale account that sold Dakka members stuff in South africa, New Zealand and Australia is the same sales account that supplies places like Dicebucket and your previous custom is their legal shield against detection.

scarletsquig wrote:Buy Mantic.

Problem solved.

Alternatively, rant at GW because you hate their prices, then rant at mantic because you hate their models, then cry yourself to sleep before buying a new plastic giant the next day.

Says the guy with the Mantic tag.....


How random is that? LMAO

Grot 6 wrote:

Says the guy with the Mantic tag.....


How random is that? LMAO

Says the guy working for the...CDC Voodoo Division.