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"Failcost" is in no way a legitimate term. It's a term used by those who think they're being clever.

Just like the Necron Fistbump .jpeg, they get very old very quickly.

Kanluwen wrote:"Failcost" is in no way a legitimate term. It's a term used by those who think they're being clever.

Just like the Necron Fistbump .jpeg, they get very old very quickly.

Use Ignore button then. That IS what it is for.

And lets wait for a kanluwen pattern Sentinel yes?

Kanluwen wrote:"Failcost" is in no way a legitimate term. It's a term used by those who think they're being clever.

Just like the Necron Fistbump .jpeg, they get very old very quickly.

You know what else gets old? Your incessant mewling about how Games Workshop is the greatest company in the world and how any criticisms of them, no matter how minute, are merely jealous trolling by internet troglodytes. Across the entire forum, your posting is a negative constant, like a black veil drawn across the face of all Creation.

"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"

To be fair agemnon2, we can study kanluwen's psyche.
He IS obligated to white knight GW and FW, especially they are homies that designs FW stuff together.

He might very well be our future GW / FW designer, er perhaps even fluff writter.

To be fair, use of the word fail as a noun has been run so far into the ground that it's popped out on the other side of the Earth.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:To be fair, use of the word fail as a noun has been run so far into the ground that it's popped out on the other side of the Earth.

So is slowpoke

I'm glad you liked the Graverobber (I'm gonna re-visit him when it starts getting close to time for the Choas Legion codex to come), but what my point is that the whole "replacing the word Finecast with Failcast or Finecost or Failcost LOL I'M FUNNY" thing got old FAST. The initial run was bad, yes-and for whatever reason-the venting on the Terminator Librarian wasn't up to par (seriously, why did so many people want that model all of a sudde-...nevermind, GK.). Many of the newer casts though-especially those of the last wave of metal models (like the GK characters) and the new sculpts designed to work with the resin/plesin material (like many of the new Ogre Kingdoms stuff and the new Necrons) lack many of the inherent flaws. Simply put, working wiht resin is far different than working with metal. As for the cost, imagine how much it costed for them to re-tool their entire production lines, and possibly even need to hire more people to work them? If the switch from metal to resin doesn't work, look for a stream of Fox news. Mute the actual shows for your own sanity, but I want you to count how many "buy silver buy gold yadda yadda yadda" commercials you see in an hour or two. The price of metals is highly unstable, so-while a small permanent increase in price is annoying, I much prefer it over a metal model going from $15 to $62 overnight because of whatever reason the metal prices change so much.

And I ramble a lot, so I'll sum it up: you're entitled to your opnion, but the "failcost" thing is getting VERY annoying, especially when I hear it from people whom have yet to work with Finecast models (I don't know about you, but I've heard it from many whom haven't even tried them.).

EDIT: Also, your point is semi-valid. Furrypiles aren't relevant to this site; models are.

Kepora wrote:I'm glad you liked the Graverobber (I'm gonna re-visit him when it starts getting close to time for the Choas Legion codex to come), but what my point is that the whole "replacing the word Finecast with Failcast or Finecost or Failcost LOL I'M FUNNY" thing got old FAST. The initial run was bad, yes-and for whatever reason-the venting on the Terminator Librarian wasn't up to par (seriously, why did so many people want that model all of a sudde-...nevermind, GK.). Many of the newer casts though-especially those of the last wave of metal models (like the GK characters) and the new sculpts designed to work with the resin/plesin material (like many of the new Ogre Kingdoms stuff and the new Necrons) lack many of the inherent flaws. Simply put, working wiht resin is far different than working with metal. As for the cost, imagine how much it costed for them to re-tool their entire production lines, and possibly even need to hire more people to work them? If the switch from metal to resin doesn't work, look for a stream of Fox news. Mute the actual shows for your own sanity, but I want you to count how many "buy silver buy gold yadda yadda yadda" commercials you see in an hour or two. The price of metals is highly unstable, so-while a small permanent increase in price is annoying, I much prefer it over a metal model going from $15 to $62 overnight because of whatever reason the metal prices change so much.

And I ramble a lot, so I'll sum it up: you're entitled to your opnion, but the "failcost" thing is getting VERY annoying, especially when I hear it from people whom have yet to work with Finecast models (I don't know about you, but I've heard it from many whom haven't even tried them.).

EDIT: Also, your point is semi-valid. Furrypiles aren't relevant to this site; models are.

To address your points in order:

1. There are still issues with new models - cross reference the new Ogre Firebelly problems reported here:

http://davetaylorminiatures.blogspot.com/2011/09/might-makes-right-ironblaster-and.html

This would seem to suggest inherent flaws in the process rather than issues with specific moulds. GW QA has been getting better but still isn't acceptable.

2. The whole switch to resin was in response to rising metal prices but that shouldn't be used as a stick to beat customers with. Just because GW need to source a cheaper medium to make minis out of, does not excuse some of the price rises seen since Finecast was introduced (case in point - Canis Wolfborn jumping up £5 in price here in the UK). Most other companies pass on cost savings to their customers; its one of the reasons why TV's and DVD players are cheaper after a couple of years - GW seems to have the opposite opinion; switch to a cheaper material, hike the price again.

3. They didn't have to 're-tool' anything. The Finecast stuff is produced from latex type moulds made directly from the tools used to cast the original metal versions. This is an added cost but isn't as significant as people make out and besides, any decent business factors in costs like that as part of the switch process. Any overhead associated with that would not explain the price rises seen. Tooling refers to making the master tools or patterns used in injection, dip moulding or casting - and it is indeed an expensive process. Making a latex mould from an existing tool is not expensive. It was one of the attractions for GW; they could adapt their existing moulds without significant overhead.


All that said, yes the whole Failcost thing is old but what else do you expect? As a company, GW rarely interact with their customers so there isn't really anywhere for people to express their anger, hence why we see it here. This is one of the few places people can legitimately vent their frustration in a public forum.

Did/wasn't some of the DKoK stuff go OOP for a short while during the summer ?

If so I wonder if this was them reworking the moulds somewhat ?


Oh, let's layoff the amateur psychological profiling please. Ta.

reds8n wrote: Did/wasn't some of the DKoK stuff go OOP for a short while during the summer ?

If so I wonder if this was them reworking the moulds somewhat ?

Maybe their stock of DKOK melted during summer

reds8n wrote: Did/wasn't some of the DKoK stuff go OOP for a short while during the summer ?

If so I wonder if this was them reworking the moulds somewhat ?

As I said, it indeed did.

Some of it is actually still being reworked. The Commissars had to be remastered, and are actually being "rebundled" into a set of all 3 Commissars in one package.

Inquisitor Lok and the Tech-Servitor are undergoing the same process, as well.

Kanluwen wrote:

reds8n wrote: Did/wasn't some of the DKoK stuff go OOP for a short while during the summer ?

If so I wonder if this was them reworking the moulds somewhat ?

As I said, it indeed did.

Some of it is actually still being reworked. The Commissars had to be remastered, and are actually being "rebundled" into a set of all 3 Commissars in one package.

Inquisitor Lok and the Tech-Servitor are undergoing the same process, as well.

So when are the commissars available again?

Makes me wonder if they'll give the Elysians the same treatment, maybe do something about their miscast rate while we're.. wait, no. That's just silly.

Kepora wrote:I'm glad you liked the Graverobber (I'm gonna re-visit him when it starts getting close to time for the Choas Legion codex to come), but what my point is that the whole "replacing the word Finecast with Failcast or Finecost or Failcost LOL I'M FUNNY" thing got old FAST. The initial run was bad, yes-and for whatever reason-the venting on the Terminator Librarian wasn't up to par (seriously, why did so many people want that model all of a sudde-...nevermind, GK.). Many of the newer casts though-especially those of the last wave of metal models (like the GK characters) and the new sculpts designed to work with the resin/plesin material (like many of the new Ogre Kingdoms stuff and the new Necrons) lack many of the inherent flaws. Simply put, working wiht resin is far different than working with metal. As for the cost, imagine how much it costed for them to re-tool their entire production lines, and possibly even need to hire more people to work them? If the switch from metal to resin doesn't work, look for a stream of Fox news. Mute the actual shows for your own sanity, but I want you to count how many "buy silver buy gold yadda yadda yadda" commercials you see in an hour or two. The price of metals is highly unstable, so-while a small permanent increase in price is annoying, I much prefer it over a metal model going from $15 to $62 overnight because of whatever reason the metal prices change so much.

And I ramble a lot, so I'll sum it up: you're entitled to your opnion, but the "failcost" thing is getting VERY annoying, especially when I hear it from people whom have yet to work with Finecast models (I don't know about you, but I've heard it from many whom haven't even tried them.).

EDIT: Also, your point is semi-valid. Furrypiles aren't relevant to this site; models are.

I think the two poor guys who are on there 10th box of Calgar and 8th or 9th box of Sternguard would like to disagree with you.

Also there has been issues with the new necrons also. Some of the capes that the lords are wearing have heaps of micro bubbles in them, and if you use LGS to cover them up you destroy the detail on them. If GW just stopped spin-casting them and used a Vacuum Bell like most resin producers do then this becomes a moot point. It's expensive in the long run to re-tool your production facillity and it doesn't look nice on the end of year statments...but what do I know i'm just random internet guy #23525...although that 5 million they just issued for dividents they clamed was 'truely surplus'...-shrugs-

I do agree that they have 'some' of the best CS people on the world, and if there is a store near you it's all good. But what if there isn't a store around you? Are you going to take the chance that you have to get 10+ boxes to get a full flawless kit?

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:if there is a store near you it's all good. But what if there isn't a store around you? Are you going to take the chance that you have to get 10+ boxes to get a full flawless kit?

Thats a pain that most people doesn't realize. Not to mention waiting for a decent condition fine cast to arrive.... its too random :'/
if anyone is tight on time, can you imagine the frustration?

grrrrrr

I am on my 4th lot of Dante, Astorath and Techmarine box set. No dicernable improvement and nearly 2 months after my first complaint.

The last set was even checked by customer services - they were slightly better but less bubbles is still some bubbles and some were big and detail destroying.

Finecost etc got old yes but unfortunately still relevant.

I hope FW are not using Finecast that would be bad

zinge wrote:I hope FW are not using Finecast that would be bad

FORGE WORLD.

IS NOT.

USING.

FINECAST MATERIALS.

It's been pretty much confirmed by multiple people in this thread. Forgeworld's started moving to the "sprue" format for at least the fiddly stuff. DKoK stuff is already in that transition as was shown, as well as the legs for the Tomb Stalker and the new Warhammer Forge undead guy and Lietpold. Can we please get this thread locked down before people keep misdirecting each other?

I've ordered a lot of FW in the past and I don't see why people would be angry if they moved to finecast

Both versions of resin have miscasts.. one causes more cancer and requires more washing first.. The other doesn't "snap" but is arguably worse for small pieces like swords..(However, both have issues with bending in the casting)

The main problem I see with finecast is they'd probably raise prices by 30% due to it..

SickSix wrote:FailWorld

ForgeCost

ForgeFail

CostWorld

If I was more clever and not so lazy I would try to photoshop their logo.

It's been done. Just google image search it.

While you're there, google image search some other overdone jokes, like ceiling cat...


If they went to the Finecast resin at Forgeworld, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I found the finecast fairly easy to work with.

However, I have had some issues with horrible mold lines with ForgeWorld. I don't hesitate to call and complain if I have a messed up piece or model. While I'm glad they replace these models, they could save everyone some time and money if they would take the time to train someone on QA/QC and implement some changes in their manufacturing process.

Like any meme, "failcost" gets old when uses repeatedly.

It's still amusing to me that a material touted as being cheaper and better is more expensive with extensive QA problems.

I mean, I'm sure it got old when people called you "Peepants" all through high school. But what do you expect when you wet yourself sophmore year?

Forge world had similar failure rates to finecast anyway, so I don't particularly care. At least these won't show up severely bent.

ShumaGorath wrote:Forge world had similar failure rates to finecast anyway, so I don't particularly care. At least these won't show up severely bent.

You must be very unlucky or I am the luckiest FW orderer. I have ordered more than a few FW kits, upgrades and otherwise and have had no issues except with some slightly bent stuff easily fixed by some hot water. My Finecast products from GW have all been good. Admittedly I have only gotten 2, the Lord Commisar and Draigo.

andrewm9 wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Forge world had similar failure rates to finecast anyway, so I don't particularly care. At least these won't show up severely bent.

You must be very unlucky or I am the luckiest FW orderer. I have ordered more than a few FW kits, upgrades and otherwise and have had no issues except with some slightly bent stuff easily fixed by some hot water. My Finecast products from GW have all been good. Admittedly I have only gotten 2, the Lord Commisar and Draigo.

I have never in my life seen a forge world product without a defect or two. My recent tybaros order had plenty of bubbles and warped bits and the dreadnought pieces in the same order looked like they had traveled through the warp to get to my house. For what they charge their QC is gak. Spartan games is like eight dudes in a (probably poisonous) garage and they do a dramatically better job.

I think this is a good idea actually, if it means that FW models will eventually make it into stores. I'd imagine they would only do it for man sized stuff and keep the big stuff as plain ole resin.

When Finecast was announced I feared they would be FW quality ( because FW miscast, bubbles, problems etc etc are legendary)... Little did I know. Today I fear FW takes things to new lows and emulates Finecast problems...

BOTH are subpar in therms of casting and way overpriced... a real shame because some really cool models are avoided all together.

NAVARRO wrote:When Finecast was announced I feared they would be FW quality ( because FW miscast, bubbles, problems etc etc are legendary)... Little did I know. Today I fear FW takes things to new lows and emulates Finecast problems...

BOTH are subpar in therms of casting and way overpriced... a real shame because some really cool models are avoided all together.

Feared Forgeworld quality? That's like...an oxymoron. A lot of the stuff they'd been putting out lately has been excellent in quality.

Kepora wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:When Finecast was announced I feared they would be FW quality ( because FW miscast, bubbles, problems etc etc are legendary)... Little did I know. Today I fear FW takes things to new lows and emulates Finecast problems...

BOTH are subpar in therms of casting and way overpriced... a real shame because some really cool models are avoided all together.

Feared Forgeworld quality? That's like...an oxymoron. A lot of the stuff they'd been putting out lately has been excellent in quality.

From a design or QC standpoint? Their failure rate seems to be as high as it ever was.

Ok, ok, lets not turn this into a Finecast suxxxxzz thread. Not that I don't think it does, but that's been pretty well established yes? Lets try to save this for proof positive one way or the other that Forgeworld has moved (or not) to Finecast. Which hasn't been definitively established either way, and it's currently just unfounded speculation based on something in a sprue; which doesn't mean anything really.

Kepora wrote:

zinge wrote:I hope FW are not using Finecast that would be bad

FORGE WORLD.

IS NOT.

USING.

FINECAST MATERIALS.

It's been pretty much confirmed by multiple people in this thread. Forgeworld's started moving to the "sprue" format for at least the fiddly stuff. DKoK stuff is already in that transition as was shown, as well as the legs for the Tomb Stalker and the new Warhammer Forge undead guy and Lietpold. Can we please get this thread locked down before people keep misdirecting each other?

Actually someone told me today that people on the German gw-fanworld forum have actually emailed FW on that topic some time ago, FW acknowledged that they have actually silently used Finecast on some items and due to protests will refrain from doing it again in the future. I will check that later, when I have some more time.

What "protests"?

If this is the first we're hearing of this, there's no way in hell there's been "protests" given how people like to piss and moan about anything Games Workshop or Finecast related.