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Yeah the OP could have handled things differently, but it would have not likely quieted the complainer who obviously wanted to be offended by the "nazi-based" army.

Not sure your jew response was appropriate. You dont have to be Jewish to find Nazism and its beliefs offensive.

He is probably a loudmouth looking to make a name for himself in the store.

We agree on the same thing

My secondary point was the store manager handled it badly in terms of wanting "a quiet life".

Veteran Sergeant wrote:It's a wonderful, rose colored universe you live in where you can change the minds of offended simpletons through rational discourse and where rational appeals to merchants overcome good business sense.

I mean, he probably could have handled it better, and without the Jew comments. But really, in the end it wouldn't have made a difference. He'd have a moral victory, and hundreds of dollars of still useless Forgeworld resin.

And the whole thread would be a lot more sympathetic to him. Instead we're talking about what a douche he is.

You never really know what might offend people, so you should just go with what makes you happy. I have an SS patterned Steel Legion army and have never had anyone complain about them. But in 2002 I have them at a tournament at the old Baltimore Battle Bunker where another guy had a nicely painted metal Tallaren army. Right before the tourney started the manager stormed out and told the guy “Get those rag headed M***** F**** off my table or get out”, the guy was completely shocked and nobody even saw it coming. The manager never said a word about my army. Though they other employees did refund the guys entry fee when the manager left and let the guy play the tourney with one of the store armies. So as other posters have pointed out you just have to be willing to be prepared for anything and take it in stride.

agnosto wrote:I fail to see how my post is not relevant and you may note, if you weren't so busy attacking me personally, that I never defended the OP's statement, simply the fact that overreacting about his army theme has nothing whatsoever to do with politics or even his personal views...unless of course he has white supremacist tattoos all over his body.

People aren't really reacting to his theme, they're reacting to his behavior.

As to the relevancy of the crusades. You may recall that the term "crusader" is still used in the Arab world as a derogatory statement much like the term "Nazi" is in the western world. One might say that crusaders are even more relevant a point of angst in this day and age, considering the high Muslim population in the world and how said population still feels about the crusades, than Nazism. Yeah, logic and a basic grasp of history and current events.

Agreed, which is what I said. If someone was offended by a 'crusade' army and he acted like a douche to them like he did at the store, I would still call him out. His army's theme has nothing to do with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:You never really know what might offend people, so you should just go with what makes you happy.

and not act like a douche.

Also, that Battle Bunker manager should be fired for so many reasons.

I agree he definitely suffers from foot in mouth disease but I've said things I've regretted in the past, as have we all; let's hope he learns from the experience.

agnosto wrote:I agree he definitely suffers from foot in mouth disease but I've said things I've regretted in the past, as have we all; let's hope he learns from the experience.

Which answers the central question of the thread? 'Am I in the wrong?'

Yes. Not for your army choice, but because of your mouth.

pretre wrote:

agnosto wrote:I agree he definitely suffers from foot in mouth disease but I've said things I've regretted in the past, as have we all; let's hope he learns from the experience.

Which answers the central question of the thread? 'Am I in the wrong?'

Yes. Not for your army choice, but because of your mouth.

This is the key lesson that should be learned here.

There is nothing wrong with the German army of World War II. Germany is a proud country, and their army of WWII was one of the most remarkable armies ever assembled. I respect the German army of wwII, and any historian does. Germans who fought in WWII fought for their country. People in the military dont have a choice, they do what they are told.

Now that being said....you have a choice with what you morally do. I obviously ABHORE the treatment of Jews in world war II, but the magority of German Soldiers DID NOT commit war crimes.

I dont like German Policy in the 1940s, But I can RESPECT the German Soldiers who fought for their country.

Now....IF you had SS soldiers treating Jewish models poorly, or a model resembeling Adolf Hitler, then I would have a problem with that, but you dont.

There is a destinction between Anti-Semitism, and Germany.

My Arguement would be , "Im from German Decent, this army honors my family, My Grandfather fought in World War I" There is nothing offensive with Germans Flag.

Smitty0305 wrote:There is nothing wrong with the German army of World War II. Germany is a proud country, and their army of WWII was one of the most remarkable armies ever assembled. I respect the German army of wwII, and any historian does.

Now....IF you had SS soldiers treating Jewish models poorly, or a model resembeling Adolf Hitler, then I would have a problem with that, but you dont.

There is a destinction between Anti-Semitism, and Germany.

My Arguement would be , "Im from German Decent, this army honors my family" There is nothing offensive with Germans Flag.

I swear no one reads these threads before posting...

Again, no one has said that he shouldn't have a German WWII army. We're saying that if he's going to have one, he better be prepared to talk about it with potentially offended parties and not be a douche about it.

pretre wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:There is nothing wrong with the German army of World War II. Germany is a proud country, and their army of WWII was one of the most remarkable armies ever assembled. I respect the German army of wwII, and any historian does.

Now....IF you had SS soldiers treating Jewish models poorly, or a model resembeling Adolf Hitler, then I would have a problem with that, but you dont.

There is a destinction between Anti-Semitism, and Germany.

My Arguement would be , "Im from German Decent, this army honors my family" There is nothing offensive with Germans Flag.

I swear no one reads these threads before posting...

Again, no one has said that he shouldn't have a German WWII army. We're saying that if he's going to have one, he better be prepared to talk about it with potentially offended parties and not be a douche about it.

Im just talking about the distinction between Hitlers SS, and the German Army, No need to freak out lol.

<sigh> PC gamers... I am playing with little plastic dollies. So if you bring out you IG army - I forget the name - with the WWII Stalinist russia feel to them. I should point out that Stalinist russia killed lots of people - probably more than the Nazis. get all huffy with my opponent and yell from the top of my voice that I refuse to play with a commie sympathizer.

Get a life. The ONLY stupid thing he said was the "There aren't any Jews here are there?" comment. Personnally I would commend you for taking the time to research and paint your army to resemble some historical past. The Jew comment put you down on his infantile mindset and gave him justification. Otherwise shoot GW and Forge World for making models that resemble some of the worst of humanity's examples.

Tallarn - Modern day Jihadist/Al Qidah
Voystriyan - Czarist Russia
Steel Legion - Nazi German Fallschirmjagers.
Catchan - US in Vietnam (talk to the Vietnamese)
DKoK - Imperial Germany
Mordian Guard - USMC - phllipine insurgence,

Tallarn - Modern day Jihadist/Al Qidah

More Lawrence of Arabia/Desert Rats really. But yeah, the major point stands.

Smitty0305 wrote:There is nothing wrong with the German army of World War II. Germany is a proud country, and their army of WWII was one of the most remarkable armies ever assembled. I respect the German army of wwII, and any historian does. Germans who fought in WWII fought for their country. People in the military dont have a choice, they do what they are told.

Actually the German army in WWII is not totally innocent of war crimes. During the push across Poland and later Russia there was too much for the einsatzgruppen (SS extermination units) to deal with so the task of exterminating Jewish Citizens was handed over the Wehmacht and then on to their reserve police units. These duties were on a voluntary basis, so these guys knew what they were doing and chose to do it. For anyone that is interested in doing more than just watching the tripe on the History Channel check out Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning for a good reference to just how involved other branches were involved in the Holocaust. These police units of the regular army were responsible for eliminating whole towns and ghettos, so you can say there is something wrong with the German WWII army.

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:There is nothing wrong with the German army of World War II. Germany is a proud country, and their army of WWII was one of the most remarkable armies ever assembled. I respect the German army of wwII, and any historian does. Germans who fought in WWII fought for their country. People in the military dont have a choice, they do what they are told.

Actually the German army in WWII is not totally innocent of war crimes. During the push across Poland and later Russia there was too much for the einsatzgruppen (SS extermination units) to deal with so the task of exterminating Jewish Citizens was handed over the Wehmacht and then on to their reserve police units. These duties were on a voluntary basis, so these guys knew what they were doing and chose to do it. For anyone that is interested in doing more than just watching the tripe on the History Channel check out Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning for a good reference to just how involved other branches were involved in the Holocaust.

I actually appreciate this responce, and that looks like a VERY interesting book.

Obviously im walking over thin ice with this statement, but my overall point in which Im sure you can agree, is that some germans who fought in WWII did so because they were told to do so. Generals like Rommel didnt support the holocaust, and generally treated POW's well, and at the very end of the war when he contemplated surrendering the western front the SS forced him to commit suicide. Obviously what Germany did during WWII was terrible, but there were heroes among the Germans who opposed hitler.

Smitty0305 wrote:there were heroes among the Germans who opposed hitler.

very true

as a german ...one sole comment...we had very few heros in that dark time...even so called heros like as staufenberg...they were known for their antisemitic beliefs...

Viktor von Domm wrote:as a german ...one sole comment...we had very few heros in that dark time...even so called heros like as staufenberg...they were known for their antisemitic beliefs...

Also true. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe other than the military assasination attempt, there was no other organized internal resistance movement on a large scale to the regime.

Georg Elser?

not really ... you are right...there minor movements...but to no general avail...sadly...my only hope is if ever such historic movements should rise again, germany then would fight the enemy within...

Commissar41.0 wrote:at my hobby store we were about to play a tournament when I pulled out my DKoK army that resembled a NAZI army but it had no swashti's just the German luftwaffe symbol (+) and some one not the store owner or director came up to me and said yeah you cant play that here....I was like why not it has nothing wrong with it....and he said it looks to much like a NAZI army, to which I replied oh I am sorry I didnt know we had any jewish members here and later to find out we don't. Any way he went to the store director complaining like a little girl and he told me it would just be best if i go home so he would shut up. But I dont plan to change the flags or models what should I do?

I think that you handled that foolishly saying what you did but everyone is entitled to paint and play their army as they see fit. My suggestion though is maybe to change the luftwaffa symbols to the hydra symbol from captain America that looks cool and is still kinda evil looking.

Yes because of your comment.


You never want to give them more fuel. He said it was a nazi army and you replied with "there's no jews around".


While being snarky is never that way to go, if you absolutely have to, pull something out of your butt to throw them off.


"This isn't Nazi. It's the Positive Reinforcement Brigade. Blue is a calming color, which would help keep them rallied in battle and the plus symbols on everything is supposed to give a Positive vibe. I wanted to put Smiley Faces, but I couldn't get them to fit on the small DKoK Shoulders."

Should you say this next time? No. Just tell them what every one else said about the Iron Cross and be done with it.

Calm facts are better than anything else you can bring to a conversation.

pretre wrote:I swear no one reads these threads before posting...

Welcome, sir, to discussion 'pon the internet

The entire imperial guard army is basically made after the Russians from WW2... how could somebody be offended by this



and NOT be offended by this?



I mean , the Russian army wasn't the most upstanding , morally correct army throughout the war.

I dunno, I think some people are WAAAY too overly sensitive about this.

Commissar41.0 wrote:at my hobby store we were about to play a tournament when I pulled out my DKoK army that resembled a NAZI army but it had no swashti's just the German luftwaffe symbol (+) and some one not the store owner or director came up to me and said yeah you cant play that here....I was like why not it has nothing wrong with it....and he said it looks to much like a NAZI army, to which I replied oh I am sorry I didnt know we had any jewish members here and later to find out we don't. Any way he went to the store director complaining like a little girl and he told me it would just be best if i go home so he would shut up. But I dont plan to change the flags or models what should I do?

I very much doubt this actually happened. This post reeks of trying to be controversial to start an argument.

Kudos to everyone involved in the thread so far though for keeping it civil. This topic is one that often doesn't end well.

Cryage wrote:The entire imperial guard army is basically made after the Russians from WW2... how could somebody be offended by this

They aren't. Because those a mish mash of WW1 styles. It's tarting them up as nazis and brushing of criticism with "there's not jews about" that is the problem.

There's a lot of imagery in 40K suggesting the authoritarian nature of the imperium. Their uniforms, particularly the officers, the eagles and skulls everywhere. But to then actually turn them into nazis seems a bit dumb IMO.

My suspicion is that the OP is courting controversy, by making this army and starting this thread. He didn't paint swastikas but chose to sail close to the wind because he didn't deny the the nazi connection, he just said there were no jews about. No he's upset because he got challenged.

I say he produces photographs of the offending material.


I don't personally feel offended at the sight of nazis, I just think it's a dumb, crass idea to do them so obviously in 40K. Seems immature but it's easy for me because I'm in the UK apart from some familiy members fighting, my family was not really touched by the nazis. But judging by some comments here... I don't think some people realise how sensitive the nazi thing can still be, especially in parts of Europe. Yes Crusades killed a lot, but is that really a fair comparison? The fact is that the nazis killed a lot of people in Europe within living memory and wounds are deep, any perceived attempt to glorify or trivialise them will upset people, particularly in light of some neo-nazism - it makes some people very twitchy. A little bit of empathy beyond "well there's no jews about" wouldn't go amiss.

^^ Agree. I'd say the catalyst was the comment about the "I dont see any jews here" , even as a 'joke' , it was in poor taste and not something I would have said.

Personally, I've always found the Nazi's uniforms to be amazing looking and very stylish so if somebody did an army like that, I wouldn't have an issue... unless they were waiving swastikas around with "White power!" written on the side of a chimera

Cryage wrote:^^ Agree. I'd say the catalyst was the comment about the "I dont see any jews here" , even as a 'joke' , it was in poor taste and not something I would have said.

Personally, I've always found the Nazi's uniforms to be amazing looking and very stylish so if somebody did an army like that, I wouldn't have an issue... unless they were waiving swastikas around with "White power!" written on the side of a chimera

Oh yes, nazi uniforms look fantastic, but I got funny looks from the neighbours last time.

A lot of people make up armies that can be construed as offensive for kicks and giggles. The difference is, they only use them at home or at a friend's place where noone's going to get offended.

I don't think DKoK are offensive. But the comment very, very clearly was.

You can't just look at a person and go "well, they're Jewish" anyway. I know at least one person who doesn't look at all classically Jewish but grandparents escaped Nazi Germany with nothing but the clothes on their back.

You could have explained that no, no they're not Nazis, they're DKoK and gone on to explain the world of Krieg and why they look like that. Open discourse, education and conversation. Heaven forbid, you may have found someone you get along with instead of looking like a smart Alec.

Noone has to apologise. Most of us, including you, know whether or not you should. And it's entirely up to you whether you do or not.

How is this going for 3 pages?

My secondary point was the store manager handled it badly in terms of wanting "a quiet life".

I would say that the manager was looking to keep tension and arguments out of his store, like any good store manager would, so that people can play without feeling like they're going to be insulted by others and uncomfortable.

Tallarn - Modern day Jihadist/Al Qidah

Ummm.....not in the least. WWI Lawrence-led Arabic guerrilla forces. Trust me on this.