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Ok people let me get some stuff straight Jewish or(Jews) is the proper politically correct statement its not slander I have nothing against the Jewish tradition/religion I just love the WW 2 battles/armies I mean would some one get angry if someone made a Red army (Soviet Russian) out of Vostroyan or Valhallans? Of course someone who takes it the wrong way.

I DO NOT CONDONE THE ACTION OF NAZIS OR THE RULES/IDEALS I JUST WANT TO MAKE A HISTORICAL ARMY VERSION THAT HAS NO POLITICAL CONVICTIONS!!!!!!

I am sorry if some of you are disturbed by this thread I don't care I am just trying to play a fun game with an old historical twist.

and the only German writing on the models is on the tanks and Valkyries near the guns and bottom and it says ACHTUNG or caution or warning in German.

Bottom line is paint them how you like.

If questions are raised explain that all characters appearing in your 40k army are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

Also, be polite to people and you will have less problems.

Commissar41.0 wrote:Ok people let me get some stuff straight Jewish or(Jews) is the proper politically correct statement its not slander I have nothing against the Jewish tradition/religion I just love the WW 2 battles/armies I mean would some one get angry if someone made a Red army (Soviet Russian) out of Vostroyan or Valhallans? Of course someone who takes it the wrong way.

I DO NOT CONDONE THE ACTION OF NAZIS OR THE RULES/IDEALS I JUST WANT TO MAKE A HISTORICAL ARMY VERSION THAT HAS NO POLITICAL CONVICTIONS!!!!!!

I am sorry if some of you are disturbed by this thread I don't care I am just trying to play a fun game with an old historical twist.

and the only German writing on the models is on the tanks and Valkyries near the guns and bottom and it says ACHTUNG or caution or warning in German.

If you want a generic response you've gotten it. It sounds like your army isn't actually painted as SS, it's painted as wehrmacht. If that's the case, then the army isn't really a problem, it's your attitude and the comment about Jews, which implied that only Jewish people would be offended. Which was crass and ignorant.

If you want more specific feedback, post pics of your army.

Commissar41.0 wrote:Ok people let me get some stuff straight Jewish or(Jews) is the proper politically correct statement its not slander I have nothing against the Jewish tradition/religion.

It wasn't the fact that you used the wrong politically correct terminology and you weren't derogatory about Judaism or anyone of Jewish descent, it was that you were callous in assuming only Jews would be offended by the Nazis. Now, that isn't to say that your army is a Nazi one, I think a historically inspired army paint scheme is a great idea , it's just that because the connotations with the Nazis had been established by the person who accused you, the comment you made was construed as offensive. It's a mistake to broadly generalise like that in any given situation anyway, so take this as a life lesson in sensitivity and defusing situations and move on.

Im just going to drop this in here. Everyone should be quiet. OP did nothing wrong. He said nothing wrong. They had no right to ask him to leave. The goal of 40k is the mass slaughter of every other living thing and some idiot at a store can't handle it then he shouldnt be working there. Templars are like the crusade. Space marines in general are representative of old empires that raped, pillaged and conquered the known world. People who collect model planes and tanks paint accurate symbols and color schemes onto the models they buy, does the hobby store have the right to boot them out after they take their money?

The death corps do look like pictures of german special forces that we have all seen, it is clearly the style that they are shooting for. In all honesty, despite the fact that they take their concept from them does that have to make them wrong? I think the models look amazing. Doesnt mean I walk around with my arm out and a tiny mustache. People just love to be offended about everything and anything. As gakky as it is, in a generation or two, the holocaust will be a bunch of facts in a textbook, like most wars are to us now. Such is the way of the world, get over it. Just wait for the stylized 300esque representations.

Way to skip the entire thread, Hoz. Your point has already been brought up and discussed earlier.

Platuan4th wrote:Way to skip the entire thread, Hoz. Your point has already been brought up and discussed earlier.

Way to read. I read the entire thing. I summed up my opinion. If other people share it, so be it.

Hox wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:Way to skip the entire thread, Hoz. Your point has already been brought up and discussed earlier.

Way to read. I read the entire thing. I summed up my opinion. If other people share it, so be it.

I did read. That's not a summation, it's telling everyone to shut up because they're wrong:

"Everyone should be quiet. OP did nothing wrong. He said nothing wrong."

And yet, people have explained in good detail WHY they believe he's in the wrong. Your opinion is not definitive enough to tell everyone else to be quiet.

You're telling people what to do, NOT just summing up how you feel.

Platuan4th wrote:

Hox wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:Way to skip the entire thread, Hoz. Your point has already been brought up and discussed earlier.

Way to read. I read the entire thing. I summed up my opinion. If other people share it, so be it.

I did read. That's not a summation, it's telling everyone to shut up because they're wrong:

"Everyone should be quiet. OP did nothing wrong. He said nothing wrong."

And yet, people have explained in good detail WHY they believe he's in the wrong.

I mean learn to read, you spelled my name wrong and it right in front of you and consists of only 3 letters. And oh really? Other people have opinions? Didn't realize that, thanks for sharing champ. He asked if there were jewish people in the club which is fair. The holocaust, while effecting lots of people is centralized around the massacre of jewish people when it is represented today and among the people I grew up with, despite the fact that we all have family members who fought and died in that war, our jewish friends tended to be the ones you didnt mention it around as when somebody basically declares war against your people and considers them subhuman, it can leave scars on your racial identity. I think if someone were to be truly offended by plastic soldiers that sort of, possibly look like nazis, it would probably be the demographic who made up the largest percentage of victims, if it bothered anyone at all.

Hox wrote:I mean learn to read, you spelled my name wrong and it right in front of you and consists of only 3 letters.

Do me a favor and look down at your keyboard. See that z next to the x? It's called slipping and making a typo you don't realize. No need to get bent out of shape about that.

Hox, he made a very offensive comment. You read that, right? Until he made that comment, he did nothing wrong. As to the OP, we really do need pictures to decide about your army, but it sounds like the guy was trying to bait you and you fell for it. I'd go back and apologize immediately and hope I'm not banned from the store.

Platuan4th wrote:

Hox wrote:I mean learn to read, you spelled my name wrong and it right in front of you and consists of only 3 letters.

Do me a favor and look down at your keyboard. See that z next to the x? It's called slipping and making a typo you don't realize. No need to get bent out of shape about that.

Thanks for responding to the first sentence of my post, not the main concept I put out. Also, thanks for taking the time to actually respond to my first post with no information or point other than saying other people also have said what I did.

Hox, he made a very offensive comment. You read that, right? Until he made that comment, he did nothing wrong. As to the OP, we really do need pictures to decide about your army, but it sounds like the guy was trying to bait you and you fell for it. I'd go back and apologize immediately and hope I'm not banned from the store.

I just think people are so willing to be offended by everything and anything. If you told somebody their possibly nazi looking army was offensive and the first people he thought who could have been offended is jewish people really that far off? I would say thats fair of him. Why anybody would be offended by something that isnt even a real nazi army scheme is beyond me and the only people I could think of who would be upset enough to make any sort of deal about it would be someone who potentially lost most of their friends and family. My grandfather was german and him and his family were put into a work camp. He watched friends and extended family die. Him, his siblings and parents only escaped by pretending to be deathly ill and not wanting to become sick, they were thrown out of the camp by the nazis, assuming that they would die anyways and they escaped into austria. This did not stop him from collecting and building WW2 models later in his life. This did not stop him from openly talking about it at any point if you had any questions. People just love to be offended.

There is no need for anyone to get angry with another or be rude. Everyone cool it or don't post in the thread.

And we were doing so well at keeping it civil...

In the words of Medic I quote.
" I have no idea!"

Hox wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Hox wrote:I mean learn to read, you spelled my name wrong and it right in front of you and consists of only 3 letters.

Do me a favor and look down at your keyboard. See that z next to the x? It's called slipping and making a typo you don't realize. No need to get bent out of shape about that.

Thanks for responding to the first sentence of my post, not the main concept I put out. Also, thanks for taking the time to actually respond to my first post with no information or point other than saying other people also have said what I did.

OK, then, let's do this:

The death corps do look like pictures of german special forces that we have all seen, it is clearly the style that they are shooting for. In all honesty, despite the fact that they take their concept from them does that have to make them wrong?

DKoK do NOT look like German Special Forces like you posit. They are in fact(as stated by FW themselves) based on a mix of WWI German, French, and a few others.

People just love to be offended about everything and anything.

Yes, they do, and that would be a great point, if the army was what people had a problem with.

He asked if there were jewish people in the club which is fair.

No, he didn't. He said that he didn't know there were Jews there.

That statement is crass because it not only assumes that only Jews would be offended(hey, remember all those gays, gypsies, and various other ethnicities that were sent to the camps? Yeah, neither does anyone else), but also that it's only potentially offensive to have an army based around a certain period of history if there are certain people around.

Honestly, I didn't respond because your statements came across as being as ignorant as the OP's.

And that's all I'm saying for the rest of the thread. Also, sorry, Mann, I was typing this as your warning was being posted.

I wouldnt really say you were in the wrong (though you could of left off the jewish comment) I would just ask him to explain why he thought it was nazi. On a side note the majority of luftwaffe officers and men didnt suppot nazism

Hox wrote:Im just going to drop this in here. Everyone should be quiet. OP did nothing wrong. He said nothing wrong.

You are wrong. His question/statement implying that only Jews would find a Nazi army offensive was thoughtless, ignorant, and a bit racist, honestly.

Hox wrote:They had no right to ask him to leave.

If it's their property they certainly did. If he had an army that could offend passers-by (which has not been established for sure) or was making racist comments they would certainly be right to do so.

Hox wrote:IThe goal of 40k is the mass slaughter of every other living thing and some idiot at a store can't handle it then he shouldnt be working there. Templars are like the crusade. Space marines in general are representative of old empires that raped, pillaged and conquered the known world.

There is a real and substantial difference between having things in a fantasy world which use real world historical and literary themes, and taking that a step FURTHER by directly representing a real-world offensive thing which is not present in the fictional world. Explicit Nazi imagery, KKK imagery, or the like are another step beyond generic references to historical facist or murderous groups.

Hox wrote:The death corps do look like pictures of german special forces that we have all seen, it is clearly the style that they are shooting for.

No, they don't. As already points out earlier in the thread, their helmets and gas masks are similar to WWI Germans, and the rest of their uniforms similar to WWI French.

Oh so the OP should have been conscious of the large gay german and gypsy populations existing in his neighborhood? I couldn't see how anyone would be offended by this army and if someone were to out of the blue make a big deal of it and expect you to leave, you would have to assume there was maybe a certain person who had a history you didnt know of that the employee did and the employee was looking out for that person. If I came to that conclusion, my first guess would be a jewish person who had lost family. To call the OP ignorant and all this other stuff is ridiculous.

If you can honestly say that if you were to think of someone who would be offended by this and jewish people werent the first thing to pop into your head than maybe your missing a few nuts and bolts upstairs.

There is a real and substantial difference between having things in a fantasy world which use real world historical and literary themes, and taking that a step FURTHER by directly representing a real-world offensive thing which is not present in the fictional world. Explicit Nazi imagery, KKK imagery, or the like are another step beyond generic references to historical facist or murderous groups.

Ok nobody is ever allowed to use tallarn guards again because they represent middle eastern people. I lost a family member in the twin towers and being in the armed forces, have lost friends. Nobody is ever allowed to use them because they look like middle eastern guerrilla soldiers and that offends me. They have not only killed people in our society but their suicide bombs have done so to many other groups including their own. Is that fair at all? No. Would I ever do it? No.

The OP wasn't ignorant, he was a bit crass and thoughtless, unintentionally making a situation worse by making a statement that could easily be construed in a negative way.

Hox wrote:Oh so the OP should have been conscious of the large gay german and gypsy populations existing in his neighborhood?

Again, you're assuming the only people "allowed" to be offended are the ones that were directly affected by the Holocaust/camps.

I would be offended by an army that was trying to look like a bunch of Nazi's outside of a historical game. A Wermacht wanna be army? Meh, whatever floats your boat. But the "I didn't know any Jews were around" comment is what would've made me the most angry. The right response, as has been said, should've been to explain that the army isn't based on Nazism and the symbol isn't representative of the Nazi regime, rather it's a symbol that was used starting in 1918 by the Air arm of the German army.

The nature of the hobby means that there is a large percentage of people who have social interaction issues. Literally everything you do can cause offense. There are a few responses if someone takes offense at your actions, but the least reasonable is mocking the situation.

Lord_Vader wrote:The OP wasn't ignorant, he was a bit crass and thoughtless, unintentionally making a situation worse by making a statement that could easily be construed in a negative way.

100% fair. To call him all these names is not fair. Something slipped out and he made an assumption. That is not grounds to call him ignorant and racist. Maybe he doesnt have a way with words, but to blatantly say he is a bad person is not the right thing to do. I got you OP, I can see what you meant.

The nature of the hobby means that there is a large percentage of people who have social interaction issues. Literally everything you do can cause offense. There are a few responses if someone takes offense at your actions, but the least reasonable is mocking the situation.

Do you know that he was mocking the situation? He was probably genuinely asking if there were jewish people as thats who he assumed would have an issue with the army. Maybe its because I'm forced to be well rounded socially by choice of profession but if someone has interaction issues, that doesnt make it the other persons fault.

Hox wrote:

Lord_Vader wrote:The OP wasn't ignorant, he was a bit crass and thoughtless, unintentionally making a situation worse by making a statement that could easily be construed in a negative way.

100% fair. To call him all these names is not fair. Something slipped out and he made an assumption. That is not grounds to call him ignorant and racist. Maybe he doesnt have a way with words, but to blatantly say he is a bad person is not the right thing to do. I got you OP, I can see what you meant.

Good Lord man, are you blind? Being thoughtless on one occasion doesn't make you a bad person at all, nor did I say it did. We've all made mistakes, that's part of being human, that's the point I was making.

And where did me calling him a racist come into it? I think you're a bit wrapped up in your own logic-proof internet armour, personally, with your real-world blinders on.

Well, that was good while it lasted.

Since people seem to be getting a little hot under the collar here, and it's a topic that's been done to death before anyway, I think it's time to move on.