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forruner_mercy wrote:THe 40K vehicles are not efficient (fluff wise)?

Yeah, they only move 12" and can only fire 1 Weapon, not very efficient it would take 'em a day to get to the end of a drive never mind going down a road

Ok, but how is the Tau design questionable?

forruner_mercy wrote:Ok, but how is the Tau design questionable?

Huge, not particularly fast ( still somewhat faster than a modern mbt because it is apparently not effected by rough terrain ), vulnerable air intakes, a very exposed maingun, huge and possibly vulnerable sidehatches.
One of the problems with both the Tau Hammerhead and the Marine Predator are that both tanks are essentialy nothing but a turret straped on an IFV hull.
That tends to make them overly large and a large target is an easy to hit target.

Don't they both have armor comparable to a modern MBT?

forruner_mercy wrote:Don't they both have armor comparable to a modern MBT?

We don't know. IA2 gave some pretty loltastic armour values, which state the Landraider's armour, which is at least on the tabletop compareable to the Leman Russ's frontarmour to be comparable to be the equivalent of 300mm steel, which is roughly WW2 niveau. Of course we do not know what is actualy meant by "conventional" steel. Super scifi steel which is conventional in the Imperium of Men? Conventional steel as we understand it today? Something in between? Hells given the varying technological capabilities even within the Imperium of Men this can mean almost anything
So all i can say is that both tanks seem to offer comparable amounts of protection within their respective universes.

*edited for spelling mistakes*

We'd probably last the longest against the Orks, simply because of their blunt methods of attack and lack of specialist methods of attack like electronic/chemical warfare, or the like. Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Tau would probably strike at key installations that would decapitate any means of prolonged resistance while the Tyranids and Necrons would simply rapidly overwhelm us due to a sheer difference in combat power/terror. I can see the Tau widely using things such as electronic warfare which would cripple us quickly as well.

About the nukes, not sure if they would actually work, theres many quotes in the BL novels of atomics being such a dirty tech and not used much due to it being ineffective. Of course this could be from their point of view where a melta torpedo from a battleship would do the job a hell of a lot better.

Given that my understanding is that the Abrams tank for instance is about a 13 front and side armor, and that the average assault rifle would be about S3 AP5-6, I would say we can hold out quite a while in a conventional fight.

Tau would not "indoctrinate" us, or try to be overlords. They would give us PRESENTS. "Here, this is how you cure cancer. Here, this is near FTL travel. Here, this will fix all of your problems overnight. Be a part of our Empire because it's better than killing yourselves." Some groups would fight it (because they're like that) but the Tau largely wouldn't need to conquer us. It's not their MO.

DE would let it draw out. Lightning raids on capitals, military bases, and population centers, and then it's all about herding up the rest. The agony of an entire planet living in terror? Good lord. They could feed on us for years. The whole planet would be one big arena.

Chaos Demons or CSM would have us pretty quick, but then there is a difference between taking the planet and conquering the whole race. Guerilla wars would last for a while, even against Eldar and especially Orks. Nids and Necrons would smoke us the fastest, IMO. Days, likely. There is no guerilla fight against nids. Once they make planet fall we're done.

Orks would actually be the one fight humanity in it's current technological state could take, IMO. The success of a WAAAAGH! depends on the brutal cunning (or cunning brutality) of its Warboss and the number a Boyz he brought. Did he bring enough Dakka? Dids he bring enough Choppas? Standard military strategy could win against them, as their tech isn't too crazy to overcome in the offense or defense. Mostly it's just pouring enough metal into all that green meat that's the issue. And of course whether or note enough of the planet survives the Rok hitting us...

People need to remember that the IoM in the 41st m has forgotten or lost alot of things that we take for granted today, and that we are more advanced than them in some ways, less so in others. Our lack of orbital defense would be the biggest problem, honestly, but on the ground? i think we'd do okay.

Nah. During the Great Crusade the Imperium utterly crushed planets even more advanced than we are without too much trouble at all. If you've ever read Horus Rising, you know what I mean.

Nagashek wrote:Given that my understanding is that the Abrams tank for instance is about a 13 front and side armor, and that the average assault rifle would be about S3 AP5-6, I would say we can hold out quite a while in a conventional fight.

Where are these numbers coming from?

Intuition maybe? It is possible that the Armor on a Predator is not much better than the Abrams.

iproxtaco wrote:Nah. During the Great Crusade the Imperium utterly crushed planets even more advanced than we are without too much trouble at all. If you've ever read Horus Rising, you know what I mean.

During the Gret Crusade the Imperium of Man could do quite a few things that it can no longer do. Still, orbital support, massed space marines and titan legions ( although i think that titans are a rather stupid way to mount heavy weapons ) are an advantage that cannot be denied.
The Imperial Guard by itself, at least when it comes to standard equipment, has yet to demonstrate abilities that are far more advanced than what we can field. Our aircraft and tanks are faster and at least the former generaly seem to carry more longrange firepower. They might even be more heavily armed and in the case of tanks, armoured, although that cannot be easily quantified.

Still though, remember that I said to leave the IoM out of this discussion

No offense, just want to keep this on track, and we do not need to be discussing Earth vs. IoM, as it has been done WAY to many times.

Our aircraft aren't faster. Imperial Armour gives the speeds of even the Lighting to be faster than an F-22, and it's armed with lascannons, armored like a tank, and doesn't require a ground base.

As for tanks, armor like you said is difficult to compare, but the Leman Russ is superior due to it's versatility and numbers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, many apilogees of the inconwenience OP.

iproxtaco wrote:
Anyway, many apilogees of the inconwenience OP.

It's alright.

Leman Russ superior? doubt it. Thing would run out of gas before it got close enough to even shoot back at an Abrams.

And look at that suspension, they'd lose more of them to bad terrain than to our own firepower.

Negator80 wrote:Leman Russ superior? doubt it. Thing would run out of gas before it got close enough to even shoot back at an Abrams.

And look at that suspension, they'd lose more of them to bad terrain than to our own firepower.

So? That tank can run on anything.
And can we please get away from this turning into a Earth vs. IoM discussion?

If you want to discuss Earth vs. IoM, then go HERE.

forruner_mercy wrote:

Negator80 wrote:Leman Russ superior? doubt it. Thing would run out of gas before it got close enough to even shoot back at an Abrams.

And look at that suspension, they'd lose more of them to bad terrain than to our own firepower.

So? That tank can run on anything.
And can we please get away from this turning into a Earth vs. IoM discussion?

If you want to discuss Earth vs. IoM, then go HERE.

Ignorant servant of the carriongod, we don't speak of the IoM but 100% chaos produced and Samesh ( or any other Dark Mechanicus forgeworld ) approved Chaos Leman Russ battletanks
, with extra spikes

Always need those spikes, ya know

forruner_mercy wrote:Always need those spikes, ya know

They make us feel manly :(

KingDeath wrote:

forruner_mercy wrote:Always need those spikes, ya know

They make us feel manly :(

Lol

...anyway, got a bit off topic there. Lets hop back on

Well if you want to be more realistic if say 1000 Khorne berzerkers landed on earth and was seeking direct confrontation I would assume we would beat the living hell out of them. no way could they take a planet of billions.
even with dreadnoughts. predators, demolishes etc. our anti tank missiles and bunker buster missiles would still tear them apart including sheer number of air support.

Would take like 3 days to wipe them out? give or take like 1 day

unless they were like say night lords and did like multiple surgical strikes of like squads of 10 that assassinated top world leaders and then moved on to our top military generals etc then we would simply be destroyed by the chaos they create

this could cause huge panic in a matter of 24 hours

GamzaTheChaos wrote:Well if you want to be more realistic if say 1000 Khorne berzerkers landed on earth and was seeking direct confrontation I would assume we would beat the living hell out of them. no way could they take a planet of billions.
even with dreadnoughts. predators, demolishes etc. our anti tank missiles and bunker buster missiles would still tear them apart including sheer number of air support.

unless they were like say night lords and did like multiple surgical strikes of like squads of 10 that assassinated top world leaders and then moved on to our top military generals etc then we would simply be destroyed by the chaos they create

I think most races would have to do something along the lines of the second thing.

Yeah I agree. we are basically like a weaker version of IG. we can handle a large scale direct confrontation with our numbers.
but small skirmishes we would get our ass kicked as warhammer 40k presents far superior elite type soldiers.

I have no doubt 1 Khorne berzerker could rampage through an entire police station and kill everyone in there. shotgun? pfft, assault rifle? lol yeah right. all he has to do is run straight through the station like a tank and smash walls down and trample them under his boots lol. let alone swing an axe.

1-3 chaos marines or eldar rangers or w/e you want assassinating a president? easy. WTF could a couple of black suit men with what 9MM too assault rifles do?
I think at that point it would be comedy to watch lol.


Though I would like to see Jackie chan VS a chaos space marine just for laughs

GamzaTheChaos wrote:Yeah I agree. we are basically like a weaker version of IG. we can handle a large scale direct confrontation with our numbers.
but small skirmishes we would get our ass kicked as warhammer 40k presents far superior elite type soldiers.

I have no doubt 1 Khorne berzerker could rampage through an entire police station and kill everyone in there. shotgun? pfft, assault rifle? lol yeah right. all he has to do is run straight through the station like a tank and smash walls down and trample them under his boots lol. let alone swing an axe.

1-3 chaos marines or eldar rangers or w/e you want assassinating a president? easy. WTF could a couple of black suit men with what 9MM too assault rifles do?
I think at that point it would be comedy to watch lol.


Though I would like to see Jackie chan VS a chaos space marine just for laughs

Really, anything fast, tough, or long ranged could do it.
For fast, Swooping Hawk or Warp Spider anyone? Jump/teleport in, and mow stuff down.
Tough? Pretty much anything from Chaos.
Long ranged? Rangers/Eldar Pathfinders for sure.

I think of all the factions the only two forces we'd certainly lose to would be the Orks (after a generation or two) and the Necrons (might take them a year).

Also, I am mainly focusing on when humanity pretty much breaks. Not when the last human dies.

It's pretty hard to "break" a people. Causing widespread destruction to home and country can actually inspire defiance and make the invader's job harder.

I think I worded that badly.
What I meant was to make us ineffective at fighting on a broad scale.

Necrons don't stand a chance. we have John conner and Arnold that would be enough to win the war