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Rented Tritium wrote:The tau absolutely cannot handle a full-on war. However, their technology and numbers are advancing far faster than any other race, so basically if they stay just under the radar, the tau could position themselves to do quite well in the next few thousand years.

With their Empire's current size and advanced technology they can and actualy do handle a full scale war. What they cannot handle are galactical threats like full scale hivefleets, unusualy large whaaghs ( Scarus and perhaps Armageddon ) and fully fledged Black Crusades. In fact i would argue that the Imperium of Man is the only faction which can reliably deal with such threats ( the Eldar and Orks are fractured, the Dark Eldar don't care, the various alien empires, like the Tau, the Rakhgol and whatever else stalks the galaxy, lack the numbers ).

KingDeath wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:The tau absolutely cannot handle a full-on war. However, their technology and numbers are advancing far faster than any other race, so basically if they stay just under the radar, the tau could position themselves to do quite well in the next few thousand years.

With their Empire's current size and advanced technology they can and actualy do handle a full scale war. What they cannot handle are galactical threats like full scale hivefleets, unusualy large whaaghs ( Scarus and perhaps Armageddon ) and fully fledged Black Crusades. In fact i would argue that the Imperium of Man is the only faction which can reliably deal with such threats ( the Eldar and Orks are fractured, the Dark Eldar don't care, the various alien empires, like the Tau, the Rakhgol and whatever else stalks the galaxy, lack the numbers ).

Those are the things I am referring to when I say "full-on" war.

The Tau empire have also never created Super Chaos Space soldiers (I wonder why the Imperium keeps getting attacked by those: I blame Daddy )

CpatTom wrote:The Tau empire have also never created Super Chaos Space soldiers (I wonder why the Imperium keeps getting attacked by those: I blame Daddy )

no they havent, but all those "allies" will turn on them in one way or another. At least it would be an awesome story.

Tadashi wrote:No, the Tau have never faced a full Chaos incursion like a Black Crusade, or the First War for Armageddon. And the Second and Third Wars for Armageddon were the biggest Waaaaagggh!!!!!!!!!! since the Ulanor Crusade during the Great Crusade. The Tau can't handle either.

Nope, you are wrong. The Tau are better.

Space Crusader wrote:

Tadashi wrote:No, the Tau have never faced a full Chaos incursion like a Black Crusade, or the First War for Armageddon. And the Second and Third Wars for Armageddon were the biggest Waaaaagggh!!!!!!!!!! since the Ulanor Crusade during the Great Crusade. The Tau can't handle either.

Nope, you are wrong. The Tau are better.

On what scale?

Individual battles? Sure. In fluff, the tau tactics and constantly upgrading equipment are phenomenal. In larger scale wars? I'm not sure they could handle those things. They don't have the numbers.

Their technology acts as a force multiplier, but even with that they STILL can't stand up to the full force of a lot of the other races. Give them 100 more years of technological development while everyone else stays in a dark age and things might be different.

KingDeath wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:The tau absolutely cannot handle a full-on war. However, their technology and numbers are advancing far faster than any other race, so basically if they stay just under the radar, the tau could position themselves to do quite well in the next few thousand years.

With their Empire's current size and advanced technology they can and actualy do handle a full scale war. What they cannot handle are galactical threats like full scale hivefleets, unusualy large whaaghs ( Scarus and perhaps Armageddon ) and fully fledged Black Crusades. In fact i would argue that the Imperium of Man is the only faction which can reliably deal with such threats ( the Eldar and Orks are fractured, the Dark Eldar don't care, the various alien empires, like the Tau, the Rakhgol and whatever else stalks the galaxy, lack the numbers ).

Unusual? Waaghs are probably the epitome of variety, and any real waaagh can and will endanger any system they hit, be Tau, Eldar, human or any other race out there.
The change we had this year, was the rise of the Necrons, so soon another faction will handle incoming Hive fleets, ork waaghs, etc..

Space Crusader wrote:

Nope, you are wrong. The Tau are better.

.......N O .

Fido198674 wrote:

CpatTom wrote:The Tau empire have also never created Super Chaos Space soldiers (I wonder why the Imperium keeps getting attacked by those: I blame Daddy )

no they havent, but all those "allies" will turn on them in one way or another. At least it would be an awesome story.

Time will tell. Tau really seem to fear civil wars so a rebellion could be interesting.

Rented Tritium wrote:

On what scale?

Individual battles? Sure. In fluff, the tau tactics and constantly upgrading equipment are phenomenal. In larger scale wars? I'm not sure they could handle those things. They don't have the numbers.

Their technology acts as a force multiplier, but even with that they STILL can't stand up to the full force of a lot of the other races. Give them 100 more years of technological development while everyone else stays in a dark age and things might be different.

100 years is nothing until one cheats with time.
And thats not happening again.

Tau lost the cover they had from being small and unknown. Most threats know about their existence now.
The 3 contenders for the galactic east,tyranids, orks and necrons plus the IoM and its dark cousins of chaos aren't going to hold back for the new kid on the block. The chance of the Tau is to stop pissing on their neighbours lawn and start to cooperate without anyone adopting their "greater good". If they don't alter their course, it won't be just a "cultural exchange" like they had with DE.

Imo if the Imperium mobilized the resources necessary to take out the Tau Empire it wouldn't be able to maintain itself between all of its other wars. Imperium is so overstretched that it can't destroy the Tau even if it wanted without risking its very existence. People like to say that blah blah Damocles Crusade would have won but the Tau Empire is 100 worlds and the Tau themselves can create a quagmire with relatively few men. It would take a very significant mobilization of Imperial resources to destroy them completely, probably on the level of 3rd Armageddon. And again, if the Imperium did that them Armageddon will fall, the Tyranids rampages throughout Segmentum's Ultima/Tempestus won't be stopped, Cadia would likely fall, the Sautekh Dynasty would overrun the Eastern Fringe, and many other smaller warzones would risk total defeat. A situation the Imperium simply can't allow.

1hadhq wrote:
100 years is nothing until one cheats with time.
And thats not happening again.

Tau lost the cover they had from being small and unknown. Most threats know about their existence now.
The 3 contenders for the galactic east,tyranids, orks and necrons plus the IoM and its dark cousins of chaos aren't going to hold back for the new kid on the block. The chance of the Tau is to stop pissing on their neighbours lawn and start to cooperate without anyone adopting their "greater good". If they don't alter their course, it won't be just a "cultural exchange" like they had with DE.

They still have the cover of not being the largest threat. Tau technology is chugging alone at an alarming pace compared to the rest who are not chugging at all. 100 years is enough for the tau to basically double their tech level. Who KNOWS what that looks like? Staying under the radar for 100 years is not really a tall order in the 40k universe. Everyone still has much higher priorities than stopping the tau.

Before we get to exited with genoside fantasies I want to say (to no one in particular) that the Tau have about a hundred worlds, a population of tens of billions and a military of several billions. That might not be much compared to the fighting forces of the galaxy, but still whomever wishes to destroy them they will need bilions themselves. And that is a whole lot.

Right. The tau don't have to completely hide, just keep the prospect of invading them a bad play.

I thought this thread was about Tau expansion, not Tau survival?

BrainDeleted wrote:I thought this thread was about Tau expansion, not Tau survival?

And my argument is that since the tau have lower numbers, they need to play their cards just right and expand carefully and quietly. This REQUIRES the ability to not be a primary target of the other races, survive and increase their tech level and expand with superior strategy and efficiency.

Tau survival plays strongly into that.

Tau expansion can't be fast, it's got to be slow and calculated.

All of this Tau talk has me wanting to purchase some Forgeworld Tau goodies...




Stop! For the love of my Iron Snakes that have yet to be painted.

Now that the strongest Necron Dynasty has been confirmed to be on the Eastern Fringe, as are the bulk of Tyranid Hive Fleets and Ultramar, further Tau expansion is gonna be an issue. Though even the Eastern Fringe is a huge place.

It makes one wonder what the next Tau Codex will include in it to indicate why the Tau haven't been swallowed up by one of the above, now that the Warp Storms are gone.

Jefffar wrote:It makes one wonder what the next Tau Codex will include in it to indicate why the Tau haven't been swallowed up by one of the above, now that the Warp Storms are gone.

We've already been over it. Wiping out the tau still represents a vast loss of resources. Everyone involved just keeps putting it off till later and saying they aren't a threat.

Sorry you are all wrong. The Tau own the little Imperium.

Space Crusader.

You're trolling dude.

I've owned Tau before, cool army and cool fluff. But they rank low in terms of overall galactic power (for now).

I assume you are being ironic Space Crusader?

Harriticus wrote:Imo if the Imperium mobilized the resources necessary to take out the Tau Empire it wouldn't be able to maintain itself between all of its other wars. Imperium is so overstretched that it can't destroy the Tau even if it wanted without risking its very existence. People like to say that blah blah Damocles Crusade would have won but the Tau Empire is 100 worlds and the Tau themselves can create a quagmire with relatively few men. It would take a very significant mobilization of Imperial resources to destroy them completely, probably on the level of 3rd Armageddon. And again, if the Imperium did that them Armageddon will fall, the Tyranids rampages throughout Segmentum's Ultima/Tempestus won't be stopped, Cadia would likely fall, the Sautekh Dynasty would overrun the Eastern Fringe, and many other smaller warzones would risk total defeat. A situation the Imperium simply can't allow.

There is no such thing as overstretching.
See what Mr cruddace had done. First we had the IG....now we got billions of regiments of IG. The IG is free to move , not the common garrison which is the PDF. So with 1.000.000 worlds in mind, a billion of regiments is 1000 regiments per world + x.
Notice the billion S Mr cruddace put there in the old fashioned "i don't know, what is this scale people talk of?" manner..

Thus based on 5th background presented in codex imperial Guard and debated on dakka, the Imperium could provide lots of Regiments,who are about 1.ooo - 100.000 wo/men under weapons because GW cannot bother with a detailed answer as they did in previous editions, and therefore an impressive force of thousands of regiments could be unleashed against any unexpecting foe.

GW also deemed it a good idea to give the necrons million of worlds and surely "some" necrons to defend these.
GW also just raised the number of marines in a pre-heresy Legion from around 10k to 100k and if one pays attention they pretty much
moved on from conflicts with millions of combatants ( Armageddon in 3rd ed ) to far greater headcounts of involved forces.
GW added other forces if campaigns did run as planned ( Eldar for example ) and necrons are most likely the candidate for this job in the future.

So a "correct" size of a given force in 40k exists only inside a publication, not across the background.

Rented Tritium wrote:
They still have the cover of not being the largest threat. Tau technology is chugging alone at an alarming pace compared to the rest who are not chugging at all. 100 years is enough for the tau to basically double their tech level. Who KNOWS what that looks like? Staying under the radar for 100 years is not really a tall order in the 40k universe. Everyone still has much higher priorities than stopping the tau.

Priorities are all nice, until "eternal war" hints on multiple conflicts going on at once and multiple "threats" don't have to gather at a single theatre of war but could start a lot of 1 vs 1 conflicts so anyone is part of it without actively seeking out a role in this.

MrTau wrote:Before we get to exited with genoside fantasies I want to say (to no one in particular) that the Tau have about a hundred worlds, a population of tens of billions and a military of several billions. That might not be much compared to the fighting forces of the galaxy, but still whomever wishes to destroy them they will need bilions themselves. And that is a whole lot.

Source for these imagined populations and military size?
IIRC GW never told anyone after codex Tau anything reliable about the population.
Also zero data of their military when it comes to the overall size.

Wishes to destroy?
The orks don't think their fun, chaos mostly ignores them, necrons just kill the tresspassers, IoM only retaliates and also kills tresspassers,
Eldar are busy picking flowers or grab a few Tau to have fun with but leave the rest alone,that reduces it to nids who are just hungry and can't resist an dense cluster of inhabitable worlds, thus biomass found in one spot without much travel.
I don't see these wishes to destroy anywhere...

Rented Tritium wrote:

And my argument is that since the tau have lower numbers, they need to play their cards just right and expand carefully and quietly. This REQUIRES the ability to not be a primary target of the other races, survive and increase their tech level and expand with superior strategy and efficiency.

Tau survival plays strongly into that.

Tau expansion can't be fast, it's got to be slow and calculated.

Right.

Jefffar wrote:It makes one wonder what the next Tau Codex will include in it to indicate why the Tau haven't been swallowed up by one of the above, now that the Warp Storms are gone.

Still take the spot of the role-model of the upcoming new races, add a few new "add-ons" and show them the darkness of this Galaxy.
Wild guess: if chaos is a major player ( again ) Tau may just be unlucky enough to sit on some artefacts and thus learn the danger of the warp cannot be ignored. This could alter their view a bit, as the claims of other races of what lies beyond can't be waved off as easily as they were.

Space Crusader wrote:Sorry you are all wrong. The Tau own the little Imperium.

Space Crusader.

The Tau own a place in the arc of my chainsword swinging down, thats all they own...

Seriously, stop that nonsense.
Tau have a place, just not to rule the Galaxy.

The Tauros campaign book from Fw says a hundred worlds if I recall correctly. Does 0.3 (= 1/23 of Earths curent population) billion Taus per planet sound reasonable? That is what I counted with.

Im sorry but you are all wrong. I am ignoring your facts and countering it with my dumb eastern european imperia... Tau fantasies. The Tau if mobilised would overrun the entire Imperium.
My beard is 10 metres long and very fat/oily.

Space Crusader

Ps. Your personal choice of army sucks.

Space Crusader wrote:Im sorry but you are all wrong. I am ignoring your facts and countering it with my dumb eastern european imperia... Tau fantasies. The Tau if mobilised would overrun the entire Imperium.
My beard is 10 metres long and very fat/oily.

Space Crusader

Ps. Your personal choice of army sucks.

Please remain mature. I get it, but it's really not the best way to handle the situation. Remain polite and cordial, as the Greater Good dictates.

MrTau wrote:The Tauros campaign book from Fw says a hundred worlds if I recall correctly. Does 0.3 (= 1/23 of Earths curent population) billion Taus per planet sound reasonable? That is what I counted with.

Earth is populated with humans not Tau.
Humans and Tau may like some similar environments but thats all they have in common when it comes to planets and population.
Tau seem to prefer it dry... and less crowded.

So earth = a planet in 40k isn't a good choice and earth filled with humans = planet x filled with Tau is worse.
To mix real life and 40k just doesn't work. Too much space magic.

Space Crusader wrote:Im sorry but you are all wrong. I am ignoring your facts and countering it with my dumb eastern european imperia... Tau fantasies. The Tau if mobilised would overrun the entire Imperium.
My beard is 10 metres long and very fat/oily.

Space Crusader

Ps. Your personal choice of army sucks.

Wich of the armies I have sucks?
Also when was Sweden counted as eastern europe? Run a false flag? Pirate?

Tau may overrun a imperium, just not the imperium of man as thats who they run away from and trample some other unlucky small empire in their stampede, like the cow-people they are.

agnosto wrote:

ironhand45 wrote:I doubt GW will add the Demiurg because they really dont have much to them just as being trade partners with the Tau. The Imperium rarely sees them too. The Tau could always to the orky way and take junk Imperial ship drives and adapt them to Tau ways. Or take it, study it, make their own version, and prosper.

They had ships and fluff in Battle Fleet Galactic.

Yea ships. Thats it. They don't get involved with tau military that much. Just trading. They might join a space battle or two, but no planetside attacks.

I was parodying Tadashi and Brother Coa... Why do germans have no humour?

Space Crusader wrote:I was parodying Tadashi and Brother Coa... Why do germans have no humour?

WE HAVE HUMOUR! TOTAL HUMOUR! LAUGH NOW SCHWEINEHUND OR WE WILL INVADE YOU!

SEE! IM LAUGHING! PLEASE DONT INVADE US!!!

Speaking as an avid lover of the tau and all they are and do:

there is no way in hell they will ever be important to the 40k universe. They are the least spread out army in the entire game, GW hates them, there is no chance of them ever getting near terra. That said, do they have the tech? yes. They easily have enough tech to wipe humanity of the face of the universe. Do they have the bodies? no. They do not. They are among the smallest army in the game, second only to DE and Eldar in terms of race size. They may be tightly packed into their little sector, but the tau still don't even have the mass of an imperial sector, let alone the girth of an ork Waagh!, or the unrelenting force of the eye of terror.