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dbsamurai wrote:Speaking as an avid lover of the tau and all they are and do:

there is no way in hell they will ever be important to the 40k universe. They are the least spread out army in the entire game, GW hates them, there is no chance of them ever getting near terra. That said, do they have the tech? yes. They easily have enough tech to wipe humanity of the face of the universe. Do they have the bodies? no. They do not. They are among the smallest army in the game, second only to DE and Eldar in terms of race size. They may be tightly packed into their little sector, but the tau still don't even have the mass of an imperial sector, let alone the girth of an ork Waagh!, or the unrelenting force of the eye of terror.

See? Even parts of your "greater good" know better, we win.

Tau will eventually develop a form of warp travel. It is inevitable. An entire Caste System is dedicated to its Navy and Naval Research (the Air Caste), so I wouldn't be surprised if some form of Segmentum-wide travel in the next Codex. And again there could be alien factions that have the potential to create galaxy-wide travel.

And people don't seem to understand that 'Armageddon-sized this' and 'Massive Warp-Incursion that' hitting the Tau Empire is unlikely due to its small size. And besides, humanity is far more tempting to Daemons and Orks (because Space Marines are dead 'ard).

No faction in 40k will ever reach Terra. Even the Necrons were downgraded from a galactic to local threat. All that's left is the Tyranids.

KplKeegan wrote:Tau will eventually develop a form of warp travel. It is inevitable. An entire Caste System is dedicated to its Navy and Naval Research (the Air Caste), so I wouldn't be surprised if some form of Segmentum-wide travel in the next Codex. And again there could be alien factions that have the potential to create galaxy-wide travel.

And people don't seem to understand that 'Armageddon-sized this' and 'Massive Warp-Incursion that' hitting the Tau Empire is unlikely due to its small size. And besides, humanity is far more tempting to Daemons and Orks (because Space Marines are dead 'ard).

Some psycho mek boy might become obessed with Tau tech after the lootas get ahold of it


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Harriticus wrote:No faction in 40k will ever reach Terra. Even the Necrons were downgraded from a galactic to local threat. All that's left is the Tyranids.

Wouldn't the day that anything reaches Terra be pretty much the start of the end of the story?

The Tau aren't vastly technologically superior to the Imperium. In fact, I'd say they're inferior for reasons stated earlier in this threat which were largely ignored in favor of various Tau/Imperial bashing...The advantage they have is their technology is not stagnant, it is progressing.

BrainDeleted wrote:The Tau aren't vastly technologically superior to the Imperium. In fact, I'd say they're inferior for reasons stated earlier in this threat which were largely ignored in favor of various Tau/Imperial bashing...The advantage they have is their technology is not stagnant, it is progressing.

But their tech is also better, it's mostly a user error. Their flyers are stronger, but the pilots lack the same skill as imperial pilots. Pulse Rifles are definitely better than bolters, but the tau themselves have shoddy eyesight. Their tech isn't just progressing, it IS better. It's more reliable and more powerful, and if it isn't both it's one of them. Their main weakness is that they will NEVER develop warp travel. EVER. At current all they can do is push into the warp and bounce out, like hitting a trampoline. They will NEVER develop warp travel because the entire race registers as little more than a blip in the warp in terms of psychic potential. All the methods of true FTL travel require some psychic capabilities, and since they closest they've come to psychic abilities is the nacissar, who have little interest in war and stay the hell away from imperial space, they'll never be able to use FTL, and they certainly will never find a way into the webway, since only psychics and the necrons have done so, and necron tech is millennia ahead of Tau tech. Considering the necrons have been dormant since before mankind voted for kennedy, and their weapons are still more advanced than even the weapons of the 40k universe, there is no way the tau will ever catch up, and so they will never access the webway. thus the two methods of travel for the tau through the warp are gone, and they're screwed in that regard. It would take billions of generations for a force to reach terra, and while it will have grown to a massive size by then, there's no telling what might have happened to the imperium, or the tau, by the time such a force would reach terra. To give you an idea:

Tau build a battlegroup, the largest of it's kind totalling 10000 ships. They send it off towards terra at the standard FTL speeds of Tau ships.
That battlegroup arrives at terra. It's original mission is but a legend told to children aboard it's floatilla, now having grown to almost a million ships due to generations of breeding and growth. the history of the tau is also a myth, something akin to battlestar galactica, with few people ever believeing it could be true, that there could be a race of them on a single planet that would only stick to a single sector, since everyone on the battle group is used to constant nomadic travel, pillageing and trading for what they need as their armies grow. They reach terra to find that mankind has destroyed the planet. The emperor has moved on, the sollar system is on the verge of collapse as the sun itself is finally ready to go supernova.

That's how slow Tau FTL is. That's why they'll never reach it lol

Epic, case closed. Everything sumed up. Tau won't reach us and eventually Terra will fall.

BrainDeleted wrote:The Tau aren't vastly technologically superior to the Imperium. In fact, I'd say they're inferior for reasons stated earlier in this threat which were largely ignored in favor of various Tau/Imperial bashing...The advantage they have is their technology is not stagnant, it is progressing.

That is debatable. With the Tau's development of Drones and from what we can understand about Tau Colonies, I'd say the only advantage the Imperium has is its Gellar Fields and Warp Drives and to an extent, its political/propoganda machine.

And again, its the social and political agenda that dictate military research. If the Tau were ever as Genocida as the Imperium, they would have a far better delivery system for an Exterminatus than the Imperium would.

If you point out 'Super-Human Genetics', they don't really need it. They have the Kroot, who upgrade their genetics naturally.

It's a bold claim to say the Tau have superior technology just because Pulse Rifles beat out the humble Bolter.

The Tau don't have better ships...The Imperium has a pretty vast advantage in this regard. Imperial battleships dwarf anything the Tau have in both size and firepower. Yes, rail guns aren't considered anything special in ship to ship combat. The mightiest Tau vessel is the rough equal of a grand cruiser...Though my money is on the cruiser in a one on one, depending on the class. The Tau do have really nice drone guided missiles though. But don't even get me started on Ramilies Class Star Forts...The Tau have nothing at all like them. It's exactly what the name implies: Space Castle. Huuuge and massive fire power.

Tau have no teleportation technology.

EDIT: To the above, what makes you think the Tau would have better planet killers than the Imperium? They don't have better big guns (By this I mean face smashingly, mind implodingly HUGE guns) than the Imperium does on the Space level. They don't even have the platforms for guns equal to the guns the Imperium has got...But to the meat of what you're saying...Yeah, the Imperium is definitely genocide happy. It would be some serious litotes to say that the higher ups are jaded...Ha. However, the Tau haven't been around long enough to understand the necessity of some exterminatus action. It's hard to swallow, I know, but it is actually completely necessary in 40k sometimes. Not just because it would be a waste of resources otherwise...But because everything on the planet is already dead anyway (whether they realize it yet or not) and leaving it to rot would endanger billions more living people.

Ect, ect.

Since we're stuck in 41k the Imperial has a tech advantage over the Tau in the most critical areas. The thing is, the Imperium only gets slightly worse or, at best, stays the same with the passage of time.

The Tau; meanwhile, are always improving their technology. They've reached the point where there are some real barriers between them and further advancement but even if they've slowed down some they actually move forward........If they can survive, they have a chance to gain a legitimate technological advantage! They represent hope.


EDIT...Again: To Drones - Humanity has been there and done that
Didn't work out so good. Who knows if the same will befall the Tau eventually...I think it probably will.

The Tau have certain obvious advantages over the Imperium technology wise (Ether drive has certain advantages despite being slower) and the Imperium has advantages technology wise in other areas. It's not a "generally either/or" thing.

The tau, however, have a more reliable logistical chain. ether drive doesn't seem to suffer the problems warp drive does, so despite being slower it is alot more reliable. And given the smaller size of the Tau Empire and the fact it is close together, they can still maintain a rather short logisitcal chainto keep their troops supplied and maintained. Whereas the IG has inconsistent logistics (especially at long range) and is lucky that it can equip most guardsmen with a lasgun and flak armor most of the time. Beyond that, anything else is sheer luck.

I'd say size is really the only reason the Tau have got a logistical advantage. Smaller armies are easier to equip especially when condensed in a smaller area. Their space travel is really inferior to the Imperium's in almost every way. They have smaller ships, slower ships, less heavily armed ships, and worse knowledge of the Galaxy. Imperial ships don't really get lost in the warp that much when you think about how much shipping there is going on in the Imperium total. It's kind of like ships/planes nowadays crashing/sinking. The major culprit is piracy.



*Please don't paint me a Tau hater. I actually like them, I'm just trying to be factual here.*

The IoM has biger more powerful ships then the tau. I don't know if that means they are more technological advanced.

They aren't. They're all about size over strategy. But if space battles have taught us anything it's that all those guns and size are great until a small squad of single man craft attack your 2 meter wide exhaust port. Yes I'm mixing canon here but even modern naval battles show us: bigger ships are slower, slower to turn, harder to hit small targets, and vastly more easy to hit than their smaller cousins. Smaller is better in a space battle because you're a lot harder to hit and easier to hide with asteroids and such.

The Tau have better technology on the tactical and immediate level. Standard armaments, battlesuits, munitions accuracy, drones, electronic warfare, battlefield support, etc.. They've also certainly mastered plasma/anti-grav tech better and have a true understanding for their technology. Imperium has some more advanced systems like teleportation or Void Shields thanks to the Golden Age of Technology/Emperor. But if we're talking about the battlefield, Tau have a technological advantage.

But these areas of better tech is tens of thousands of years old and largely the same as it was then and the tech itself is so closely guarded by the AdMec and so shrouded in myth that it's gradually becoming a lost art. In the next few centuries the Tau will likely develop teleportation equivalents, true FTL travel, better shieldings/warships, etc..

Not really...Battle suits = power armor or TDA. The Tau are less accurate than marines, equal to guardsmen. Ordinance wise, the Tau tend to prefer the 'smart' bomb strategy when the Imperium will just bury its foes under sheer weight of fire. Neither is really superior, it's different styles there.. Drones aren't a necessity to the Imperium so I don't think they're really comparable. The Tau use drones to make up for their lack of raw manpower. Obviously the Imperium just uses people to bridge this gap though I suppose drones are comparable to servitors and servo-skulls really. Electronic warfare? I don't know what you mean. Battle field support? Do you mean air support or orbital support? Because the Imperium is arguably quite a bit better here.

Tactically, the Tau have no equivalents to Titans. I suppose Mantas, Barracudas, and Tiger Sharks could fill the gap but at the same time...Not really. The Imperium possesses much better super heavies whether tank or titan.

I think the game kind of shows that the Tau and the Imperium are, when it comes to battlefield tech, about on par. Yes. The Imperium uses crazy things like horses and other backwards stuff but then they also have some of the most powerful ground based war machines in the Galaxy alongside Necrons (Probably the most powerful tech-wise) and Eldar (Second to Necrons only). As well as some of the most advanced and able troops in the Galaxy when it comes to Space Marines. Yeah, the elite of the elite technologically and, well, in almost every way.

Speculation is kind of pointless. In the major area of space travel the Tau have hit a pretty huge technological roadblock. They have no psykers and no way to navigate the warp so they need to:
A) Break into the webway somehow. Rising trend here. Though it's very, very improbable that they could do this or reverse engineer any Eldar technology as Eldar tech is very based in psykic crap.
B) Find a means besides the webway or the warp. Neigh impossible. Their technology really isn't that good.

C) Find a -reliable- race to partner with that can navigate the warp and also develop Gellar field equivalents and fully capable warp drives that can actually fully break into the warp.

C is most likely though still a long ways away for the Tau. They've kind of plateaued for a little while, technologically, after their enormous boom.

Electronic warfare means things like disruption pods decoy launchers. They have a device that scans for enemy communications, decrypts them, changes them then rebroadcasts them in real time so that enemies are moved around by false orders.

I find battlesuits superior to space marines. Can space marines use 4 guns at the same time?

They might stand a chance, provided they don't catch the High Lord's or the Orks' attention, or Biel-Tan's anger by colonizing maiden worlds. A full-on Imperial Crusade (think Sabbat Worlds) or the Swordwind would tear the Tau to pieces.

Tau technology is superior in many ways, but as so many others have said, they are still inferior. Without psykers, they can't use warp technology to it's full potential, and I doubt the Necrons would share any technology with them. Navy-wise, they outrange the fleets of most other races, but they can't exactly outgun the Orks or the Imperials, while the Eldar and the Necrons would fly circles around them. And it doesn't matter in the long run if their technology is superior. The Germans thought the same in WWII, but the Soviets simply threw HUGE numbers at them until they broke, something the Imperium and the Orks can do and won't hesitate to do. It would cost dearly though, something Cain said in For the Emperor, stating that a full-on Imperial Crusade against the Tau would see the Imperium victorious, but it would also be the biggest bloodbath since the Sabbat Worlds Crusade.


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Space Crusader wrote:I find battlesuits superior to space marines. Can space marines use 4 guns at the same time?

No, but a full squad outguns and outranges Battlesuits. Not to mention the Tau would still get owned in close combat, especially by Assault Marines/Assault Terminators.

Battlesuits have jetpacks and outrange most Astartes weapons. Please tell me how a squad of astartes outgun three of these guys?

Lascannons and Missile Launchers. And they'd still get owned in close combat.

KplKeegan wrote:
And people don't seem to understand that 'Armageddon-sized this' and 'Massive Warp-Incursion that' hitting the Tau Empire is unlikely due to its small size. And besides, humanity is far more tempting to Daemons and Orks (because Space Marines are dead 'ard).

On the contrary, people seem to miss the point of waaghs and chaos incursions, which is the fact they happen wherever GW pleases to enact them. Small size? No problem there surely is a chaos follower with good BS... and orks just show up where the fight is.
Both are 'wildcards' , threaths GW can place freely without bothering to much. Size of the local 'empire' in question doesn't matter.
GW adds a artefact to a system and chaos swarms in to claim that. Orks don't plan their course and in a Galaxy filled with greenskin who is to say there isn't a waagh already close to this system? Same with necrons, establish a 'new' past of a system and mark it as tomb world,
viola crons in place to partake in the story. The level of strategy you seem to apply to the setting of 40k isn't there.
Threats show up, sometimes wellplaced sometimes facepalmworthy. Maybe they really roll a d6 for everything.....

Harriticus wrote: In the next few centuries the Tau will likely develop teleportation equivalents, true FTL travel, better shieldings/warships, etc..

Teleportation is restricted for a reason and the Tau are one of the most unlikely candidates for teleportation tech..
True FTL? did something happen to the necrons FTL recently?
Shielding? Stops death & xplosions, who wants that ? FX to the max FTW!

Space Crusader wrote:I find battlesuits superior to space marines. Can space marines use 4 guns at the same time?

Yes.

Tadashi wrote:
..... it would also be the biggest bloodbath since the Sabbat Worlds Crusade.

.....bloodbaths are the fuel of 40k...

While I agree with most of what you just posted, the Imperium can ill-afford a bloodbath with the effects of the 13th Black Crusade and Hive Fleet Leviathan still kicking around.

Battlesuits can only use three guns, and only two at the same time.

CpatTom wrote:Battlesuits can only use three guns, and only two at the same time.

Twinlinked guns are technicaly two guns. So they can actualy fire three guns ( twinlinked weapon + extra weapon ) at the same time.

I thought with twin-linked you just get to re-roll once a failed roll to hit?

KingDeath wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Battlesuits can only use three guns, and only two at the same time.

Twinlinked guns are technicaly two guns. So they can actualy fire three guns ( twinlinked weapon + extra weapon ) at the same time.

Only as a Team Leader. Not enough hardpoints to get the Multi-tracker on a twinlinked and an alternate weapon suit. I assumed we were talking regular run of the mill Marines and Suits. Once you start upgrading guys I'm sure there is a techmarine with five guns or something ridiculous like that.


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Tadashi wrote:I thought with twin-linked you just get to re-roll once a failed roll to hit?

You do, but it is to represent the second weapon firing at the same target. (Twin linked broadsides actually fire 2 railrifle rounds at targets, just only one can hit)

Thanks. A Techmarine with a servo-harness has a boltgun/bolt pistol, twin-linked plasma pistol and flamer. You can fire both servo weapons in a turn, or the boltgun/bolt pistol and one servo weapon.

Hazard suits have two pairs of twin linked guns.

BrainDeleted wrote:To the above, what makes you think the Tau would have better planet killers than the Imperium? They don't have better big guns (By this I mean face smashingly, mind implodingly HUGE guns) than the Imperium does on the Space level.

Through their extreme knowledge of plasma and magnetic technologies. If the ethos of Tau ever changed, I bet they could develop a Rail Gun that could slice a planet in half if the really wanted to.

BrainDeleted wrote:Tactically, the Tau have no equivalents to Titans. I suppose Mantas, Barracudas, and Tiger Sharks could fill the gap but at the same time...Not really. The Imperium possesses much better super heavies whether tank or titan.

As they've shown in the Taros Campaign, the Tau don't need equivalents. Perhaps another two-hundred years down the road, Titans and Baneblades and Land Raiders will be downed by Crisis Suits.

The Imperium thinks bigger equals better, while the Tau's armaments (to the Mechanicums detestment) keep getting smaller and more streamlined.

Which again is dictated by the ethos of both races. Tau want to preserve as much infastructure and resources as possible while the Imperium could care less what happens.

Tadashi wrote:The Germans thought the same in WWII, but the Soviets simply threw HUGE numbers at them until they broke, something the Imperium and the Orks can do and won't hesitate to do.

This is incorrect. There were other factors that affected Germany's defeat in the East, moreso than the shambling horde that was Russia's Army.

Tadashi wrote:Without psykers, they can't use warp technology to it's full potential

I honestly don't see that their inferior because they're a psyker-dead race. The Imperium has the latest and greatest Tom-Tom GPS (with all its flaws) built into their dash while the Tau stick the current Atlas on their iPads.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't it take a while for the Imperium to develop warp-based travel? Do we even know how long it took? How come you Emperor-Botherers don't give the Tau the same grace period to find galaxy-wide travel?

KplKeegan wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't it take a while for the Imperium to develop warp-based travel? Do we even know how long it took? How come you Emperor-Botherers don't give the Tau the same grace period to find galaxy-wide travel?

[Troll Post] - Because DIE XENOS, thats why......