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Tadashi wrote:Lascannons and Missile Launchers. And they'd still get owned in close combat.

Actually, no. In the BL novel Courage and Honour, Tau Battlesuits were able to beat down multiple Space Marines in cc.

Coolyo294 wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Lascannons and Missile Launchers. And they'd still get owned in close combat.

Actually, no. In the BL novel Courage and Honour, Tau Battlesuits were able to beat down multiple Space Marines in cc.

True, but on the table I beat the snot, or whatever a Tau equalivent is, outta Battlesuits with Marines in CC.

The Tau could easily expand if they target the right systems. Taking a system held by the chaos or Eldar or DE, they could easily take that system with the right numbers, resources, leadership etc. They could even take systems held by the IoM and Orks just because of their firepowers and tactics. The only race they really need to fear are the Tyranids because they're so massive and dangerous. If i was the Tau, I would keep my distance from the Tyranids and let the IoM handle them.

Think of it this way guys,

IoM thinks bigger is better, thats lame; HUGE computers years ago now a small phone that can fit in your palm does the same job way better
Tau don't want psykers, that'd be daft, it'd make them a target for all sorts of chaos nonsense

Damocles gulf crusade = stale mate until IoM had to divert forces to deal with tyranid hive fleet;
Implies that the IoM would destroy the tau empire if they wanted to but half the IoM would be consumed by Tyranids, Orks, Chaos... the list kinda keeps going

Its more difficult to make the Railgun on a hammerhead small enough to be carried by a pathfinder than it is to make bespoke railgun bigger:
e.g. Plasma Pistol from Plasma Gun from Plasma Cannon which got upsized to fit on a titan
How long until planet smashing railguns, hmmm.........

Basically, guys, bash tau all you like cuz in fluff tau have developed tech to compete with the IoM's (even with the use of manpower (not sexist)) in 6000 years whereas the technology level the IoM is at has taken approx 50000 years...

Give tau another 46000 years and they'll deal with anything in the WH40K universe without breaking a sweat, eldar, necrons, humans, chaos, tyranids, let the C'tan and Old Ones come back and get owned

The only variable factor: time, and if the tau can survive for long enough to achieve this level of technology



Anyways, tau are not communists or socialists, I hate it when people say that tau are reds seriously get reading fluff, you're just jealous...

Tau society has aspects of communism I'll grant that because they work together for the better of the whole ( a very noble concept) but the ethereals seem to occupy a position akin to monarchial rule almost or maybe republic or democratic with all the councils and voice of the people. Thus with this in mind, How can they be communists?

Anyway, Tau bashers, IoM lovers, Your civilisation has been around for a long time and not conquered the galaxy and if Tau eliminated humans then chaos would get a lot weaker (reason for chaos to target tau if they get too strong for the liking of the ruinous powers)!!!
Step aside or get tossed aside; Its time to let the big boys play

What are you guys on about?? Webway doesn't need anything close to any psyker abilites
Did you forget about DE, they hate all stuff psyker!

Maybe Eldar tech is psyker based but tau need only get they're little blue mitts on a DE and they have access to the webway

ironhand45 wrote:The Tau could easily expand if they target the right systems. Taking a system held by the chaos or Eldar or DE, they could easily take that system with the right numbers, resources, leadership etc. They could even take systems held by the IoM and Orks just because of their firepowers and tactics. The only race they really need to fear are the Tyranids because they're so massive and dangerous. If i was the Tau, I would keep my distance from the Tyranids and let the IoM handle them.

The Dark Eldar do not permanently hold systems and the Eldar tend to be extremely annoyed when it comes to taking away their toys.
Targeting imperal backwater planets which can be comparatively easily swayed by trade and diplomacy, which has the nice side effect of avoiding unnecessary bloodshed, is far smarter and less likely to result
in pricey long term comitments. After all, with the Eastern Fringe in turmoil the the Imperium will rarely invest large amounts of resources just to reconquer someworthless backwater.

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:
Its more difficult to make the Railgun on a hammerhead small enough to be carried by a pathfinder than it is to make bespoke railgun bigger:
e.g. Plasma Pistol from Plasma Gun from Plasma Cannon which got upsized to fit on a titan
How long until planet smashing railguns, hmmm.........

Basically, guys, bash tau all you like cuz in fluff tau have developed tech to compete with the IoM's (even with the use of manpower (not sexist)) in 6000 years whereas the technology level the IoM is at has taken approx 50000 years...

Give tau another 46000 years and they'll deal with anything in the WH40K universe without breaking a sweat, eldar, necrons, humans, chaos, tyranids, let the C'tan and Old Ones come back and get owned

The only variable factor: time, and if the tau can survive for long enough to achieve this level of technology

You're right about the time thing...But you seem to assume that just because they progress means that they'll keep progressing to infinity. This is a misconception. There is such a thing as a peak. A limit. Materials available can only do so much. The pace of Tau technological growth has already slowed down.

Another thing: You're assuming everything the Tau do is based off pure genius and imagination...This is also a complete misconception. The only reason the Tau have any form of warp travel is because they found an 'alien' ship on one of their homeworld's moons. More than likely an Imperial ship. They kinda failed at copying the meat of the drive but they managed to come up with what they've got now. The same goes for a lot of Tau tech. They've learned it from the other established races. One of the reasons why they boomed, boomed, boomed.

Just one more thing, please don't say things that are blatantly untrue. M18 was the peak of mankind's technological prowess. Where we didn't have to do a single thing because we had robots infinitely more advanced than any drone. We had technology that just destroyed whatever we wanted. STC pumping out super high tech anythings for little cost in resources. Technology that far eclipsed that of the Tau. Tech relics prove that much and that's only a small fraction of the technological wizardry humanity had. Seriously, everything they built, to put it in perspective, is a good 4-5 times older than the Pyramids are to us, to the IoM so we'll never even really know about most of their technology. Then mankind went through terrible, terribly hardship (Iron man rebellion, psyker gene appearance, warp storm craziness, ect.) and lost much technology until (Seriously, reduced back to barbarianism in many/most cases) around 30k when the good old Emperor decided to bail us out. That's when technological rediscovery began. Only lasted a short while till the Horus Heresy. And now the IoM is still in technological recovery mode. You can't just say it took 50k years to get to the IoM's level of technology...Because mankind lost almost everything in the middle of those years and stayed lost for a good 10,000 years enduring hardships that the Tau imagination can't even dream up.

So really, the Tau advanced twice as fast as Humans but with the help of 'alien' ships lying around for them to reverse engineer. Oh, and they didn't colonize the whole galaxy yet like Humanity managed by the time it peaked.

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:What are you guys on about?? Webway doesn't need anything close to any psyker abilites
Did you forget about DE, they hate all stuff psyker!

Maybe Eldar tech is psyker based but tau need only get they're little blue mitts on a DE and they have access to the webway

The DE forbid the use of phykic abilities because they cannot afford to attract Daemons. They don't have spirit stones. Their souls are free to gobble gobble. They already have access to and reasonable knowledge about the webway though. They've already got all the portals and gates they are ever going to need...

Let's look at the Emperor's attempt to break into the webway. He had to use his psykic abilities to forge a path through the warp to existing webway tunnels then try to seal it off using, wait, what, oh he had to deal with Daemons the whole time. Something Tau don't know a single thing about...And he had to use his psykic abilities, his extremely potent one of a kind abilities just to get the project off the ground. Plus, he found an ancient, ancient relic...The Golden Throne...Which started his whole foray. Seems pretty unlikely the Tau will be able to do this same thing ever in a million years without a lot of help.

BrainDeleted wrote:

The pace of Tau technological growth has already slowed down.

Another thing: You're assuming everything the Tau do is based off pure genius and imagination...This is also a complete misconception. The only reason the Tau have any form of warp travel is because they found an 'alien' ship on one of their homeworld's moons.

Just one more thing, please don't say things that are blatantly untrue. M18 was the peak of mankind's technological prowess. Where we didn't have to do a single thing because we had robots infinitely more advanced than any drone. We had technology that just destroyed whatever we wanted. STC pumping out super high tech anythings for little cost in resources. Technology that far eclipsed that of the Tau. Tech relics prove that much and that's only a small fraction of the technological wizardry humanity had. Seriously, everything they built, to put it in perspective, is a good 4-5 times older than the Pyramids are to us, to the IoM so we'll never even really know about most of their technology. Then mankind went through terrible, terribly hardship (Iron man rebellion, psyker gene appearance, warp storm craziness, ect.) and lost much technology until (Seriously, reduced back to barbarianism in many/most cases) around 30k when the good old Emperor decided to bail us out. That's when technological rediscovery began.

Oh, and they didn't colonize the whole galaxy yet like Humanity managed by the time it peaked.

The DE forbid the use of phykic abilities because they cannot afford to attract Daemons. They don't have spirit stones. Their souls are free to gobble gobble. They already have access to and reasonable knowledge about the webway though. They've already got all the portals and gates they are ever going to need...

Let's look at the Emperor's attempt to break into the webway. He had to use his psykic abilities to forge a path through the warp to existing webway tunnels then try to seal it off using, wait, what, oh he had to deal with Daemons the whole time. Something Tau don't know a single thing about...And he had to use his psykic abilities, his extremely potent one of a kind abilities just to get the project off the ground. Plus, he found an ancient, ancient relic...The Golden Throne...Which started his whole foray. Seems pretty unlikely the Tau will be able to do this same thing ever in a million years without a lot of help.

Here we go;

Tell me where it says that the tau found this ship I can't find a reference apart from people on dakka (genuinely, politely asking here)

Now, The Emperor tried to force his way into the webway with technology that someother person discovered and had been abandoned before he found it and tried to use it with no instructions
As to the tau's lack of dealing with demons I ask you to look up Pg 10 of the codex at "The Perdus Rift Anomaly" - 'an area of space through which the corruption of the immaterium intrudes upon the material universe...acts as a gateway to elsewhere, through which things from nightmares may pass' - just because the tau barely register in the warp doesn't mean they have no experience with demons
Where does it say the pace of tau technological development is slowing down, we're talking about a stationary point in the WH40K timeline? (a.k.a. it hasn't slowed down)
Humans still peaked at M18 according to scenario, after almost 30000 years then - given that you yourself said that the tau are progressing twice as fast and haven't peaked (the second bit is me ) then give the tau another 4500 years and they'll have topped the Imperium's peak tech level
I agree there are limiting factors as there are to everything but ingenuity is not limited, if there is a problem there is a solution
It is unlikely given fluff that the tau will experience a similar point of civilizational collapse because of their overwhelming belief in the greater good

By the way check your facts:
The Imperium is not by any means nor definition undergoing a technological recovery - GW calls it technological stagnation while the Adeptus mechanicus throttle the life out of the IoM by saying that technological development goes against the tenets of the Imperial Truth and occasionally they rediscover a lost technology and attempt to use it - they don't know what they're doing, cannot reverse engineer it and can't usually use it
And let's be honest if the IoM was at its peak at M18 then how come very few worlds had enough knowledge to maintain if not actually progress with technological advancement, hmm...
Because by the time they had robots to do everything they'd already began to stagnate and ingenuity was on the retreat and now the High lords of terra are kinda against discovering and implementing new tech, that's why they're innumerable hordes of gaurdsmen are armed with glorified flashlights

Typhon, bored youngster

Tau Battle Fleet Gothic rules. You can dl them at the Gamesworkshop website. Don't have all their codices on hand but I believe there's mention in those as well.

The Tau race did not come into being 9000 years ago in the 40k timeline. That's where we choose their starting point. It's when they had a similar level of Technology to humanity at year 0. You're inflating things by using this misconception.

The IoM is technologically stagnant. The only thing they are doing is recovering humanity's lost technology. They aren't advancing. Thus they are stagnant. This does not mean that they aren't finding new things. They always are...Land speeder, Land raider, new combat knife STC, ect, ect. It just isn't advancing their technological level because they aren't making new things, rather, they are rediscovering old tech. It is also not quite true to say the AdMech stops technological research. They actually do carry out research it is just very restricted and they put much more effort into recovery. True, technologies are lost at times with the destruction of forge worlds...But the IoM does get a new toy every once in a while. By the way, when the AdMech discovers some old technology, they implement it if it is found to be pure. Please provide a counter example. They always utilize found human technology if it does take an obscene amount of testing and study.

Anyway, we (humanity) went stagnant sort of in the Dark Age of Tech...Because we reached the peak of what technology can achieve for all intensive purposes. It was to the point where humans did not need anything else. We rocked.

For the slowing of Tau tech, they boomed to space faring with their partial warp drive thingamagig then haven't done anything super major since. Counter examples?

To the Webway...The Tau don't have and very, very likely won't find a Golden Throne (Dark Age of Tech.) equivalent so their even more up the creek on breaking into the Webway than the Big E was when he tried. I don't see your point.


EDIT: Sorry, I post then edit a million times. It's my style.

I will simply say this: Human tech during the Dark Age of Technology make the Tau look like children. Humanity made the Iron Men, which are sentient AI, Supernova inducing weapons, Terraforming tech, created the Warp drive, created the Navigator gene, created Land Ships as per the Rogue Trader rpg, Void shields to defend cities as per RT rpg, may have built a planet if the implications are true as per RT rpg, have colony worlds with tech to sterilize planets, cloaking technology, all the other tech in the 40k rpgs's etc.

If the Tau were ever taken from 40k and placed in the galaxy during the DAoT and they tried their nonsense on humanity. They would get stomped on so hard, the very first Tau that evolved would be feeling the beatdown.

The cool thing about the Dark Age of Technology is that we'll never really know the full heights of humanity's technology. All we know is that they were so advanced that humanity didn't have anymore needs...And there are a few mystified snips like Iron Men and Land Ships and Void Shields.

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:
Oh, and they didn't colonize the whole galaxy yet like Humanity managed by the time it peaked.

Almost the entire galaxy was colonised otherwise why are all these planet filled with primitive human keep being found?

The Imperium is not by any means nor definition undergoing a technological recovery - GW calls it technological stagnation while the Adeptus mechanicus throttle the life out of the IoM by saying that technological development goes against the tenets of the Imperial Truth and occasionally they rediscover a lost technology and attempt to use it - they don't know what they're doing, cannot reverse engineer it and can't usually use it

The Imperial truth was something that existed during the time of the Great Crusade and was replaced by the Imperial Cult post Horus Heresy. The Mechanicus use their influence to put their ideals of no or at least very little innovation as Imperial policy.

And let's be honest if the IoM was at its peak at M18 then how come very few worlds had enough knowledge to maintain if not actually progress with technological advancement, hmm...
Because by the time they had robots to do everything they'd already began to stagnate and ingenuity was on the retreat and now the High lords of terra are kinda against discovering and implementing new tech, that's why they're innumerable hordes of gaurdsmen are armed with glorified flashlights

Typhon, bored youngster

The Imperium didn't exist during the M18. Infact, the Imperium came into being with the advent of the Great Crusade which happened in the year M31.

Read these links for info:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Technology#.Ttty77KMiKs

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Technology

BrainDeleted wrote:The cool thing about the Dark Age of Technology is that we'll never really know the full heights of humanity's technology. All we know is that they were so advanced that humanity didn't have anymore needs...And there are a few mystified snips like Iron Men and Land Ships and Void Shields.

Yeah, I truly like the Landships below:

Here is the kind of tech and damage DAoT colonies could do to themselves:

Zayth Gazetteer

Like so many worlds across the galaxy, Zayth is a place of never-ending war and bloody, futile conflict. For centuries uncounted, its human inhabitants have been locked in a bitter struggle against their kin—warrior clans living in behemoth land-ships and fighting for reasons lost in the smoke and blood of battle. There is much to interest Rogue Traders here, however—the land-ships themselves are artifacts of a time now lost to the Imperium; dark-age technology of incalculable value. The world’s blasted landscape is also a scavenger’s dream, littered with the remains of millennia
of warfare. However, no one just lands on Zayth and looks around—to even approach the world requires the support of at least one of the clans and more than one intrepid explorer has underestimated the power of the land-ships and had his vessel blasted from the sky.


The Big War

Even within the vaulted halls of the city-sized land-ships, the clans of Zayth have little memory of how their world came to be the blasted wasteland of death and destruction it is today. Visitors to Zayth from the Imperium, though few and far between, have pieced together something of the history of this tragic world and its descent into endless conflict. From patchy Administratum records compared against the incomplete data of the clans—kept for the most part locked in cogitators deep within the land-ships—it seems that Zayth was once a green and verdant world, settled millennia ago during mankind’s great expansion across the stars. Over time, however, the shifting tides of the warp and the waning strength of humanities’ grasp on the galaxy meant Zayth was cut off and forgotten.

Alone, its inhabitants turned inwards, and what had once been a single unified colony of man became a distrustful world of suspicious city-states and secretive nations. Still in control of powerful dark age technology—city-levelling macrocannons, virulent bio-agents and mighty land-ships the size of hives—the city-states and nations created the thousand-year treaty that restricted conflict to remote regions and far out to sea. It was a treaty that lasted less than a decade. There are no solid records of what began the Big War, but its effects are plain to see for anyone visiting Zayth. Everything was laid to ruin as armies swarmed across the land, bombs dropped from the sky, and the mighty land-ships strode across the earth like merciless gods of war. At first, there must have been some kind of plan for victory, some strategy to defeat the enemy and restore the peace.

However, as the war escalated, all seemed forgotten in years of fire, blood, and death. After a time (impossible to gauge from fractured records), only the land-ships and their crews remained, protected from their now-toxic world by thick hulls and flickering void shields. With nothing left to hope for, the crews fought on, driven by a bitter hatred of the other land-ships and the memory of their homelands burnt to ash. Generations came and went within the land-ships and what was once a military crew became a clan, a tribal city-state with no allegiances beyond its armoured shell. Today, the land-ships crunch and grind their way across the wasteland in paths set out by their Elder-Tacticians, driven on by the hatred of their Gun-Masters, and maintained by the secretive Engine-Orders. Occasionally a land-ship falls, its carcass stripped and looted by the others, and Zayth takes another slow and steady step toward the day it will become a dead world.


Ash and Death

Zayth is a wasteland pocked with craters and divided by vast dry ocean basins, long since boiled away by radiation and nuclear fire. Even the world’s mountains have been shattered and smashed by titanic exchanges of firepower until they are little more than lines of jagged foothills crisscrossing dust choked plains. It is across this remaining macro-continent that the landships sail—churning up great plumes of radioactive ash in their wakes. Occasionally their passage unearths a grim reminder of the past—the broken foundations of a pre-war city, the petrified stumps of an ancient forest, or even the skeletal remains of a destroyed land-ship. For the most part these desiccated remains are only given a cursory glance by the land-ship for anything of use, and then quickly forgotten. The clans have little connection to their past and less interest in exploring it.

Beyond these broken memories of the world that once was, the only other major landmarks on Zayth are the Great Craters. Caused by the first bombs dropped in the Big War, these craters are kilometres across and sometimes hundreds of metres deep. So potent were the bombs that made them that the land-ships still avoid crossing them, for fear of radiation hard enough to slice though their shields and fry their hulls. The Great Craters also act as a guide to those crossing the wastelands, their greenish glow visible for thousands of kilometres in all directions. In fact, they can even be seen from orbit as eerie glowing dots of light powerful enough to pierce the thick toxic atmosphere.

Aside from the Great Craters and the land-ships themselves, the greatest danger to a traveller on Zayth are the toxic storms. After centuries of warfare and the complete destruction of its biosphere, the world of Zayth has become a hellish place to visit. Its skies are constantly covered in boiling crimson storm clouds, lit from within by jagged bolts of purple lightning. Without natural barriers to stop it, the wind howls around the world creating tornados of dust and ash that can strip a man to bone in seconds —if the radiation and airborne toxins haven’t already reduced him to bloody slag. For the most part, these storms wash harmlessly over the land-ships’ heavy shields, but once every so often a titanic one tears across the wasteland and any land-ship in it path must stop and dig into the hard earth to survive—its inhabitants cowering in the ship’s hold, praying to the ancestor spirits of the Engine-Orders to keep their ship upright.


Land-Ships of Zayth

The humans of Zayth live almost exclusively in the land-ships, each one home to a fiercely independent clan with its own set of traditions and rites. Over the centuries, the land-ships themselves have also become unique: as the toxic winds of Zayth and the constant war between the clans damage them they are repaired in a variety of inventive and makeshift ways, mostly from parts scavenged from beneath the ash-covered plains or torn from vanquished rivals. From a distance, a land-ship looks not unlike an Imperial hive, its ringed hull tapering toward a point hundreds of metres above its vast base. Closer in, a multitude of protrusions become visible—gun decks, sensorium banks and dust glider hangers covering its hull like a thousand tiny wounds. At its base, behind a billowing cloud of ash and dust, legs, tracks and suspensor arrays can be glimpsed, holding the mighty structure aloft. There is nothing in the Imperial arsenal that completely compares to a land-ship, and more than one traveller from the Imperium has commented that it is as if a light cruiser had landed and sprouted legs—certainly a land-ship’s firepower is comparable to many battlefleet ships of the line.

Each of these monstrosities is home to a clan, the ancient descendants of its military crew. Within these clans exists a rigid caste system, perhaps brought about by the martial discipline of their ancestry. At the head of this structure are the Elder-Tacticians, mystic officers charged with plotting the course of the clan and the path the land-ship travels. Ancient and wise, the tacticians spend most of their time cataloguing and researching the centuries worth of records from countless engagements and weapon tests to prepare for their clan’s next encounter with a rival land-ship. In more recent times, the arrival of off-worlders has prompted them to re-evaluate how these outside influences might change the course of the Big War.

Beneath the tacticians are the Gun-Masters, those men and women specially trained to operate the weapon systems of the land-ships, be they conversion-beam batteries, macro-cannon turrets, or squadrons of missile-laden dust gliders. These are sacred positions aboard the land-ships, where surviving the next conflict is all that matters in the never-ending battle between the clans. Below the Gun-Masters dwell the teeming masses of the land-ships; men, women, and children who call the lumbering citadels their home. Of course they too have a role to play, for everyone aboard a land-ship contributes to its battle readiness—be it cleaning decks, crafting shells, or carrying fuel. Finally there are the Engine-Orders—secretive cults that keep the vast machinery of the land-ships running, passing on the secrets of their working from one generation to the next. Aboard a land-ship they seal off corridors, rooms, and sometimes whole decks behind tarnished copper doors—a clear message to all aboard that only those of the Engine-Order may pass beyond their threshold. Understandably, Adeptus Mechanicus techpriests and Explorators that have visited Zayth have noted the parallels between the Engine-Orders and the Machine Cult—and there are even rumours of the Mechanicus infiltrating the orders of Zayth to unearth the secrets of the land-ships. Some tech-priests have noted the similarities between the land-ships and similar structures on the moon of Cog and the mobile hive of Ambulon on Scintilla, only further increasing the Machine Cult’s desire to plumb their secrets.


The World that Once Was

The dust plains and ash wastes of Zayth hide a past long forgotten and buried by war. Travellers to Zayth speak of ancient cities buried beneath the ash, some still mostly intact and littered with ancient Imperial technology, forgotten wealth, and records of man’s expansion into this region of space. One such city that even the clans themselves speak of is Zolran—fabled capital of Zayth and first colony of man. Stories tell of the city surviving the first bombs of the Big War—sheltered beneath a powerful shield dome. As the war dragged on, however, and more and more of the world was laid to waste Zolran found itself alone, its inhabitants unable to escape the dome that protected them from the land-ships and the world’s worsening climate. Finally its location was lost, buried beneath the shifting ash and dust of Zayth, the clans still whisper that the city and its inhabitants survive, hidden somewhere in the wastes.

There are also reports of something much older on Zayth, ruins that predate even the coming of man and the start of the Big War. It is said that far out in the dust basins are deep ravines, that once long ago would have been deepsea trenches—before the oceans boiled away—and within these deep cracks in the earth is the remains of an alien city, undisturbed and unvisited for millennia.

The Explorers’ vessel must enter low orbit (well within 10,000 km or one Void Unit of the planet’s surface) to initiate a bombardment (essentially, it will have no Manoeuvre actions until it breaks orbit, and must remain stationary—except for changing orientation—every turn it conducts the bombardment). A Zayth land-ship should count as a cruiser with Armour 16, 3 Void Shields, and 75 Hull Integrity. It also has the equivalent of two Mars Pattern Macrocannon broadsides, which—while designed for surface work—are easily capable of hitting a starship in low orbit. The land-ship has a Detection Rating of –10, and a Crack crew (Skills and Characteristics of 40). It will perform Extended Actions such as Focused Augury and Lock On.

All this^ is from the RT campaign adventure "Lure of the Expanse"


One final thing, Landships are armed with Vehicle-mounted Conversion Beamers which I bolded in the long text. What are Conversion Beamers you ask? Here's the answer, the ones below are from Deathwatch:

Although many of the weapons carried by Space Marines are wonders of technology beyond the dreams of normal men, there are some machines that are so exceptional that only a Techmarine may attend them. One of the most unusual of these is the conversion beamer, a rare weapon that works by converting matter to energy in a beam that becomes stronger the further it extends and the more matter is converted. It is only by the constant ministrations of a Techmarine that such a weapon can be utilised—should anyone else attempt to use the weapon, its war spirit might become greatly angered and turn its ire upon the wielder instead.

Astartes Conversion Beamer

A small number of these rare and deadly archeotech devices circulate through the hands of senior Techmarines. By using the energy stored in atomic bonds, a conversion beamer can annihilate creatures, vehicles, or nearly anything its beam reaches, provided it is given time to build to critical mass. When fired, a conversion beamer expels a stream of neutronbombarded particles, beginning an atomic chain reactionthat converts matter to energy in a blazing beam that hurtles towards the target. As the escalating reaction travels, more and more air molecules are converted into a deadly blast that finally consumes the target in an explosive release of energy. Conversion beamers are more powerful at long ranges as they can absorb more matter into the blast’s strength before it hits.

At distances of up to 15 metres, it does 1d10+9 Damage and has a Penetration of 2. Over that distance and up to Short Range, it does 3d10+9 Damage with a Penetration of 8 and gains the Felling Quality. Against targets further than Short Range it does 6d10+12 Damage with a Penetration of 14 and possesses the Felling and Blast(2) Qualities.

And this was for mere colony worlds. Truly humanity has forgotten more than the Tau will ever know. It makes one feel despair over what great heights humanity has fallen from .

Oh btw, nice avatar .

I doubt the Tau could completely defeat every threat. But they are likely to be able to win most individual fights.

They are constantly improving their technology and adapting to deal with new threats.

The Imperium may have better technology in some key areas, but the majority of that technology is either unreplaceable or very difficult to get more of. When it's gone, it's gone.

The Tau are rapidly advancing and will likely be able to deal with the majority of threats soon. By the time something large (E.g a Waaagh, Tyranids, Crusade etc) reaches them they will be able to deal with it alot better than they could currently.

People, people. This is GW we are talking about. Stop taking their fluff so serious. In 6th edition we might have Space marines riding unicorns spreading love.

Space Crusader wrote:People, people. This is GW we are talking about. Stop taking their fluff so serious. In 6th edition we might have Space marines riding unicorns spreading love.

That's crazy. They cant do that. Spreading love is the tau's job.

Mentlegen324 wrote:I doubt the Tau could completely defeat every threat. But they are likely to be able to win most individual fights.

They are constantly improving their technology and adapting to deal with new threats.

The Imperium may have better technology in some key areas, but the majority of that technology is either unreplaceable or very difficult to get more of. When it's gone, it's gone.

The Tau are rapidly advancing and will likely be able to deal with the majority of threats soon. By the time something large (E.g a Waaagh, Tyranids, Crusade etc) reaches them they will be able to deal with it alot better than they could currently.

Sounds like a no-limits fallacy to me.

nomotog wrote:

Space Crusader wrote:People, people. This is GW we are talking about. Stop taking their fluff so serious. In 6th edition we might have Space marines riding unicorns spreading love.

That's crazy. They cant do that. Spreading love is the tau's job.

The Tau's goal is to conquer the galaxy not spread love.

ironhand45 wrote: If i was the Tau, I would keep my distance from the Tyranids and let the IoM handle them.

If you payed attention to GW, the IoM ( inq kryptman ) actually were faster than you and planned the Tau as speed bump of the tyranids.
Sorry they're not as slow as you think..

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:Think of it this way guys,

And here comes the request to alter this thread into a "Tau bashing"... WHY?

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:IoM thinks bigger is better, thats lame; HUGE computers years ago now a small phone that can fit in your palm does the same job way better

You sure? Its the IoM's fault your computer was lame?

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:Tau don't want psykers, that'd be daft, it'd make them a target for all sorts of chaos nonsense

No psykers is like no magic in a fantasy setting and we know how beneficial that is...

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:
Damocles gulf crusade = stale mate until IoM had to divert forces to deal with tyranid hive fleet;
Implies that the IoM would destroy the tau empire if they wanted to but half the IoM would be consumed by Tyranids, Orks, Chaos... the list kinda keeps going

Does it? This plot-armor, where angered neighbours always have something else to care for, it won't last.

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:Its more difficult to make the Railgun on a hammerhead small enough to be carried by a pathfinder than it is to make bespoke railgun bigger:
e.g. Plasma Pistol from Plasma Gun from Plasma Cannon which got upsized to fit on a titan
How long until planet smashing railguns, hmmm.........

Hell freezes over first.
Why do you think railguns are downsized and plasma weapons upsized?
The rail rifle is a invention of a software project and was transferred to the tabletop cause the guys at GW liked it.

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:Basically, guys, bash tau all you like cuz in fluff tau have developed tech to compete with the IoM's (even with the use of manpower (not sexist)) in 6000 years whereas the technology level the IoM is at has taken approx 50000 years...

So we shall bash the Tau?
Not really sure where you pull that crap about developement time from....maybe your behind?

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:Give tau another 46000 years and they'll deal with anything in the WH40K universe without breaking a sweat, eldar, necrons, humans, chaos, tyranids, let the C'tan and Old Ones come back and get owned

Oh how come nobody realizes that?

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:The only variable factor: time, and if the tau can survive for long enough to achieve this level of technology

No factor at all.
40k is a setting not a story. Movement factor = 0.

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:Anyways, tau are not communists or socialists, I hate it when people say that tau are reds seriously get reading fluff, you're just jealous...

Agreed anyone elses, except yours, are not communists.
But I have to insist you take your stalinistic blue faced scumbags off of our beloved 40k.

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:Tau society has aspects of communism I'll grant that because they work together for the better of the whole ( a very noble concept) but the ethereals seem to occupy a position akin to monarchial rule almost or maybe republic or democratic with all the councils and voice of the people. Thus with this in mind, How can they be communists?

Its just your Tau.
Exceptions happen...

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:Anyway, Tau bashers, IoM lovers,

>The IoM would have nothing to do with Tau if they kept their blue asses of our lawn.!

Maybe the so called bashing isn't really hate but rather a reaction to your weird fan dreams? Once in a while, the background as provided by GW is to be accepted as is. Its fascinating how close minded the fans of so called 'enlightened factions' of a fictional wargame can be.
Ever considered there is a reason why it turns into Tau vs IoM and rarely in Tau vs X ? A result of the IoM bashing maybe?

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:Your civilisation has been around for a long time and not conquered the galaxy and if Tau eliminated humans then chaos would get a lot weaker (reason for chaos to target tau if they get too strong for the liking of the ruinous powers)!!!
Step aside or get tossed aside; Its time to let the big boys play

WTF?
Chaos is around without humans, it just swaps one favored victim for another.
1 great crusade = 200 years and a million worlds belong to mankind again. Thousands of years and what is the property of the Tau?
If this should be some sort of humor, you epically fail.

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote: Webway doesn't need anything close to any psyker abilites

Thats why necrons had it easy to break in...oh wait.... doesn't look like..

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:Maybe Eldar tech is psyker based but tau need only get they're little blue mitts on a DE and they have access to the webway

Another "cultural exchange" ?
How often can Tau perform these before they run out of Tau ? DE are pretty fast consumers of playthings..

There is so much wrong with your post.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Mentlegen324 wrote:I doubt the Tau could completely defeat every threat. But they are likely to be able to win most individual fights.

They are constantly improving their technology and adapting to deal with new threats.

The Imperium may have better technology in some key areas, but the majority of that technology is either unreplaceable or very difficult to get more of. When it's gone, it's gone.

The Tau are rapidly advancing and will likely be able to deal with the majority of threats soon. By the time something large (E.g a Waaagh, Tyranids, Crusade etc) reaches them they will be able to deal with it alot better than they could currently.

Sounds like a no-limits fallacy to me.

It is. It also makes a number of assumptions based the early warning systems the Tau have capable to them. gak, Chaos could open up shop in a few minutes if GW focused its writers on that task.

nomotog wrote:

Space Crusader wrote:People, people. This is GW we are talking about. Stop taking their fluff so serious. In 6th edition we might have Space marines riding unicorns spreading love.

That's crazy. They cant do that. Spreading love is the tau's job.

The Tau's goal is to conquer the galaxy not spread love.

CpatTom wrote:It is. It also makes a number of assumptions based the early warning systems the Tau have capable to them. gak, Chaos could open up shop in a few minutes if GW focused its writers on that task.

Agreed!

The Tau's goal is to spread the Greater Good, conquering the galaxy is the "Goodest" (haha, englih) way to do so.

Thats the Tau's opinion . Other races disagree!

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Mentlegen324 wrote:I doubt the Tau could completely defeat every threat. But they are likely to be able to win most individual fights.

They are constantly improving their technology and adapting to deal with new threats.

The Imperium may have better technology in some key areas, but the majority of that technology is either unreplaceable or very difficult to get more of. When it's gone, it's gone.

The Tau are rapidly advancing and will likely be able to deal with the majority of threats soon. By the time something large (E.g a Waaagh, Tyranids, Crusade etc) reaches them they will be able to deal with it alot better than they could currently.

Sounds like a no-limits fallacy to me.

While GW could decide to unleash anything on them of that scale at any time, currently there is nothing we know of heading towards them. If something was sent, whatever it would be would take quite a while to get there and by that time it arrives Tau technology would have improved.

Prehaps i phrased it wrongly, but what i basically meant was that unless it's something completely new, they would have developed more counters towards the threat. I did not mean they would be able to completely destroy whatever threat arrives, just deal with it better than they could currently.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Thats the Tau's opinion . Other races disagree!

Not all the other races, everyday, more and more races see the light that is the Greater Good.

The Tau aren't developing any anti Chaos counters to my knowledge. So, watch for that.

Well it seems Games Workshop can get inspiration from the Pretty Marines.

CpatTom wrote:Not all the other races, everyday, more and more races see the light that is the Greater Good.

I smell propaganda .

The Tau aren't developing any anti Chaos counters to my knowledge. So, watch for that.

As I have kept saying; its either Chaos or Nids who will win in 40k. Frankly, I want them to win just to spite you Tau fans cause you guys annoy me so much .

LET THE GALAXY BURN!!!

On the subject of warp travel and technology, it's obvious that warp travel involves technology because psychic devices such as the Geller Field generator, Librarian helmets and Teleporters exist.

Secondly, humans can't hear ultrasonic noises like dog whistles, but we can still sense them and generate them using technology.

Thus there is no reason why the Tau should not invent some form of warp drive not based on space magic.

Kilkrazy wrote:On the subject of warp travel and technology, it's obvious that warp travel involves technology because psychic devices such as the Geller Field generator, Librarian helmets and Teleporters exist.

Secondly, humans can't hear ultrasonic noises like dog whistles, but we can still sense them and generate them using technology.

Thus there is no reason why the Tau should not invent some form of warp drive not based on space magic.

The Tau already have a their version of a Warp travel which doesn't entail entering the Warp. Its just that they can't use Warp travel to its full capacity cause they are not psychic nor can they perceive the Warp.

Humans don't have wings and can't perceive the magnetic spectrum. Yet we are just as good as homing pigeons at flying around the world.

Corporal_Reznov wrote: I smell propaganda .

I promise you'll like it. Just give it a try. its "good" for you.

As I have kept saying; its either Chaos or Nids who will win in 40k. Frankly, I want them to win just to spite you Tau fans cause you guys annoy me so much .

LET THE GALAXY BURN!!!

My money is on the Orks, but more or less the same outcome either way. Fighting to forever.

KplKeegan wrote:

BrainDeleted wrote:To the above, what makes you think the Tau would have better planet killers than the Imperium? They don't have better big guns (By this I mean face smashingly, mind implodingly HUGE guns) than the Imperium does on the Space level.

Through their extreme knowledge of plasma and magnetic technologies. If the ethos of Tau ever changed, I bet they could develop a Rail Gun that could slice a planet in half if the really wanted to.

BrainDeleted wrote:Tactically, the Tau have no equivalents to Titans. I suppose Mantas, Barracudas, and Tiger Sharks could fill the gap but at the same time...Not really. The Imperium possesses much better super heavies whether tank or titan.

As they've shown in the Taros Campaign, the Tau don't need equivalents. Perhaps another two-hundred years down the road, Titans and Baneblades and Land Raiders will be downed by Crisis Suits.

The Imperium thinks bigger equals better, while the Tau's armaments (to the Mechanicums detestment) keep getting smaller and more streamlined.

Which again is dictated by the ethos of both races. Tau want to preserve as much infastructure and resources as possible while the Imperium could care less what happens.

Tadashi wrote:The Germans thought the same in WWII, but the Soviets simply threw HUGE numbers at them until they broke, something the Imperium and the Orks can do and won't hesitate to do.

This is incorrect. There were other factors that affected Germany's defeat in the East, moreso than the shambling horde that was Russia's Army.

Tadashi wrote:Without psykers, they can't use warp technology to it's full potential

I honestly don't see that their inferior because they're a psyker-dead race. The Imperium has the latest and greatest Tom-Tom GPS (with all its flaws) built into their dash while the Tau stick the current Atlas on their iPads.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't it take a while for the Imperium to develop warp-based travel? Do we even know how long it took? How come you Emperor-Botherers don't give the Tau the same grace period to find galaxy-wide travel?

Ah, and once again we hear about the galaxy-shattering railgun. And Tau fans wonder why Imperial fans get all irritated about them. And how many times do we have to say that the Tau can't use warp technology without psykers. The Immaterium is a psychic realm. Without psykers, you can't understand it. That's why the Tau can't fully use warp technology to it's full potential. As for Germany, yes, they overreached themselves in Russia. Same with the Tau. Sooner or later, they're going to to overreach into Imperial space, and the Imperium will retake those worlds such that the Tau can't reinforce until it's too late, or by the time their reinforcements arrive, they'll be walking into a trap.

Oh and the Tau don't have the advance technology in the galaxy. Historically, that would belong to pre-Fall Eldar (psychic technology), Necrons (material technology), and Dark Age of Technology Humans (a mix of both). In 40k, Eldar and Necrons still have the position of having the best technology in the galaxy with regards to their specialties.

Once the tau gain modern warp travel I believe they will be a much bigger threat. As of now they cannot expand beyond their current borders. If they were to get into any real size conflict with the IoM they would be incapable le often reinforcing the battle in their favour.
however IMO I think the biggest anchor to their forward movement is the greater good itself it causes them to be naive and overlook just how evil everyone is. They have shown this on several occasions.

First post since I joined the military, its good to be back.

They can't acquire warp technology. They don't have the psykers to do it, and the Ethereals forbade warp research after the fall of Medusa.