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Brother Coa wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:
They also had Valkyries. But because Battlesuits may have fallen does not mean they were all caused by carbines. I mean, you shoot a hundred rifles at a barn and something should hit it. And no, they didn't use a Manta to defeat them. They used the Manta to deliver the Shas'o to collect his prisoners.

The text clearly states that Tau Manta fire all it's weapons at refinery. After the volley the Tau stormed the compound. That counts as "using Manta to defeat somebody". And I am referring to losses that Tau suffered while fighting in the compound. Elysians didn't use airstrikes there, there were only Guardsman vs. Battlesuits and Fire Warriors and still they manage to inflict heavy losses to Tau.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:They are.
There were numerous threads to prove this.
Aren't Elysians killed Battlesuits on Taros using Lascarbines?

And please Beef, we all know how "normal" you discussion are.

TT rules: a str 3 lascarbine (lasgun) vs. a T 4 battlesuit needs 5+ to wound, then the suits 3+ sav is inacted, and requires 2 succesful wounds..

So yes they can and likely did kill/disable battlesuits, just the odds would not be great for it, and require a substantial number of shots, or two very lucky ones.

And yes TT does not always reflect fluff but Forgeworld /IA seems to strive to have its match up.

IA and TT rules are the same thing, except fluff.
Please don't use TT rules to show how something should work in fluff ( because all those rules exist to BALANCE the things, completely different then fluff ). If we all compare TT rules and fluff then Space Marine would worth 3 Guardsman, not 100.
This also show's how much Tau fans know about Imperial fluff.

Did you even READ my post.. oh wait you again cherry pick I see.

The fluff is for the table top, and not vis versa, and the IA guys do seem to try to make the two match, even if the other authors, and BL guys do not, so where possible I will always use TT as a example.
And I am firmly and completely aware of Imperial fluff seeing as I was playing this game from RT days, you exhibit a complete ignorance of anything that does not fit your world view.

Hell, I even agreed with your claim as to lascarbines.

Your dogma is in place as always so actual discussion is as always wasted on you.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Did you even READ my post.

I did, I was just confirming the last part you written down in it. The one that said that "TT does not always reflect fluff "

Your dogma is in place as always so actual discussion is as always wasted on you.

Then why are you discussing those things again?

Brother Coa wrote:

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Did you even READ my post.

Your dogma is in place as always so actual discussion is as always wasted on you.

Then why are you discussing those things again?

Because I always feel people deserve a second chance, and I read a statement that could be confirmed in the rules.

But you being you, could not even take a comment from a Tau advocate that supported your statement.

And your need to argue is clearly evident, your dismissal of TT reflecting fluff is due to your ignorance of TT, play the damn game, the tabletop one , and alot of these things will be more balanced for you, and who knows you may even enjoy it.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Because I always feel people deserve a second chance, and I read a statement that could be confirmed in the rules.

Good for you.

But you being you, could not even take a comment from a Tau advocate that supported your statement.

See again.

And your need to argue is clearly evident, your dismissal of TT reflecting fluff is due to your ignorance of TT, play the damn game, the tabletop one , and alot of these things will be more balanced for you, and who knows you may even enjoy it.

Played a couple of game actually. It was hilarious how cruel the dice god can be. And it is not like you said, still managed to kill FIre Warriors in melee with few Guardsman. My opponent even missed the entire Guard squad he was targeting.
In the second game I played as Space Marine, My tactical squad with Heavy Bolter and Melta missed SINGLE Fire Warrior, they all target him and they all missed him. ( he was in the open )
So when it comes to fluff I completely disregard TT rules. SAme I do with DoW gameplay when compared to the fluff.

KplKeegan wrote:

Where Farsight built his Enclave. It is a place the Tau consider 'forbidden' and gives them great concern that there's something buried around those worlds Daemon related. They're afraid of the Tau releasing something and having that something make a bee-line straight for Imperial Space, which is likely because Humans are a better food source than Tau.

Jefffar wrote:The Tau specifically considered it forbidden because of the Imperial border. The Ethereals wanted a primarily diplomatic expansion in that area, not a military one because the Water Caste has proven very effective at splitting off Imperial worlds and they didn't want to trigger a massive Imperium response.

forbidden because of buried demons or forbidden because of a border close to it?
i can't find anything stating it was quarantined because of demons and I doubt they care if anything they disturb runs off to hit their neighbours.

<quote of now-deleted text redacted --Janthkin>

KplKeegan wrote:

Or it could be a Space Marine Chapter Relic since its a Shrine World for the Scythes of the Emperor...


Source: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Arthas_Moloch

Its really not a chapter relic as it was found in pre-human ruins on a dead arftifact world where Farsight was attacked by unknown opponents who killed his etherals. The shrine world part was true maybe bevor the marines cleansed it.

KplKeegan wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Not just the fans...even fluff says that Tau lose coherence and sense of purpose without guidance from an Ethereal. Let's say Farsight managed to avoid becoming 'overwhelmed'. If he's still in his right mind, first thing he would do would be to request a new Ethereal. But he didn't. He led his troops and civilian followers and dug themselves in and shut the Ethereals out. He doesn't even try to contact T'au at all. Something's up with him...

KplKeegan wrote:He's not possessed. He's not harboring some Necron Tech. He's considered a Renegade by Tau and its Ethereals.

Looks at weapon. fits old cron style , check.

KplKeegan wrote:

Whee Farsight built his Enclave. It is a place the Tau consider 'forbidden' and gives them great concern that there's something buried around those worlds Daemon related. They're afraid of the Tau releasing something and having that something make a bee-line straight for Imperial Space, which is likely because Humans are a better food source than Tau.

I don't see how its hard to believe that Farsight is influenced by his weapon. He is the only Tau that has not been reduced to a rock knocking idiot upon the death of his ethereals. And he is the only Tau that has found and used a mysterious sword.... to me this is not a mind blowing theory. Its actually rather understandable.

It's not hard to believe. Just that it's not a guarantee that the two are related.

nomotog wrote:It's not hard to believe. Just that it's not a guarantee that the two are related.

There's no guarantee of a lot of things in 40k..... hell what if GW had some crazy idea to not spell everything out! For people to maybe..... think.... and see clues in the fluff..... good god! Get me a line to GW STAT! I've figured out the puzzle!

Tau fans don't want to believe Farsight is influenced by his sword like Fulgrim since it would ruin their image of the Tau being a perfect incorruptible race.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I don't see how its hard to believe that Farsight is influenced by his weapon. He is the only Tau that has not been reduced to a rock knocking idiot upon the death of his ethereals. And he is the only Tau that has found and used a mysterious sword.... to me this is not a mind blowing theory. Its actually rather understandable.

The problem with your claim is he is not the only Tau to get through the loss of an Ethereal. We have the famous case of Shas O'Rymir and the Tau codex points tht many times Tau Firewarriors respond to the loss of an Ethereal with greater resolve than with panic.

In the case of Farsight we have a particularly motivated, aggressive and battle-hardened member of the Fire Caste who actually largely disagreed with the Ethereals and their actions. Why should it be so surprising that he is capable of acting independently after having the restraints of Ethereal guidance removed?

Farsight is essentially the Tau equivalent to George Patton. Would you imagine that Patton would run screaming home if the Germans had successfully killed Eisenhower during the Battle of the Bulge?

However those other instances were not as large a scale. Not to mention they didn't completely abandon the greater good and shut the rest of their race out. If this has happened before, why dishonor him by taking his hero title?

Tadashi wrote:Tau fans don't want to believe Farsight is influenced by his sword like Fulgrim since it would ruin their image of the Tau being a perfect incorruptible race.

And I mperial fans don't like to admit the IoM is evil totalitarian regime, with a corpse sitting on golden throne as a figure head while debased Lords of Terra defile the memory of everything the Emperor fought and sacrificed to build (its fun to make general statements huh ).

I have no problem with Farsight being influenced by his sword, or the planet he found it on or if his blood sugar was to low, or the teddy bear he snuggled with told him to do it, does not effect my idea of the Tau one little bit.

And as to Ethereals, they are a stabalizing force, one that brings moderation and harmony to the Castes, and in their absence the firewarriors are fully capable of commiting atrocities just like humans, I have always thought of them as the morality of the Tau made manifest, but hey thats just me.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
And I mperial fans don't like to admit the IoM is evil totalitarian regime, with a corpse sitting on golden throne as a figure head while debased Lords of Terra defile the memory of everything the Emperor fought and sacrificed to build (its fun to make general statements huh ).

Like we are much better with our God that we don't know if exist? And with major countries of this world wanting to rule over all others, using force in achieving that goal?

I have nothing against Tau but they are small fry in the big galaxy. Let them develop better FTL and then we can talk seriously.
In short: as long as Tau a threat to the local star systems and not local sectors they are not that to important in larger scale.

Brother Coa wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:All your lies about tau fans get annoying. Can't you troll someone else for a change?

My "lies":

- Tau Empire is smaller then the Imperium of Mankind. ( ~100 vs. ~1.000.000 ). Not about Tau fans.
- Tau military, even highly advanced and well trained can't stand against full scales of all race's attacks ( Tyranids, Orks, Imperium, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necrons... ). While they can defeat smaller incursions on their own territory and closest systems. Not aboout Tau fans
- Tau are using the "Grater Good" to unify the galaxy. Often they are saying that they will "make you" embrace the Grater Good if you don't want to embrace it. Not about tau fans
- There are hints that Etherials are using mind control ( Tau Codex 4'th edition ), but that's a rumor and until next codex I will leave it be. ( same as for sterilization in Ordo Xenos report ). Not about tau fans
- Farsight indeed brake of the Tau Empire and established his own little empire in Democles Gulf. Is that first free Tau or is he under some influence - we won't know until next codex. Not about Tau fans

One single sentence, and you still manage to not read it properly.
Again: All your statements about "Tau fans" are wrong and insulting and trolling.
If you can't understand the meaning of the above sentence, please ask someone to explain the meaning to you.

Kroothawk wrote:
If you can't understand the meaning of the above sentence, please ask someone to explain the meaning to you.

You mean like when Beef claimed that Tau can kill Chaos Gods with million Railguns?
I am finished here...

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Tau fans don't want to believe Farsight is influenced by his sword like Fulgrim since it would ruin their image of the Tau being a perfect incorruptible race.

And I mperial fans don't like to admit the IoM is evil totalitarian regime, with a corpse sitting on golden throne as a figure head while debased Lords of Terra defile the memory of everything the Emperor fought and sacrificed to build (its fun to make general statements huh ).

I have no problem with Farsight being influenced by his sword, or the planet he found it on or if his blood sugar was to low, or the teddy bear he snuggled with told him to do it, does not effect my idea of the Tau one little bit.

And as to Ethereals, they are a stabalizing force, one that brings moderation and harmony to the Castes, and in their absence the firewarriors are fully capable of commiting atrocities just like humans, I have always thought of them as the morality of the Tau made manifest, but hey thats just me.

No, I'm fine with admitting that the Imperium's a totalitarian theocratic oligarchy/military aristocracy. It's a necessary evil. 'To be kind, one must be cruel' - Chinese proverb, for the Imperium, mankind must be oppressed because if they were free to think and do as they please, they would do horrible things that would lead mankind to destruction. Feel free to think of me as an autocratic idealist (although I prefer moderate Japanese/Asian nationalist), but I can see such things even in western civilization right now.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:However those other instances were not as large a scale. Not to mention they didn't completely abandon the greater good and shut the rest of their race out. If this has happened before, why dishonor him by taking his hero title?

Yes, the scale in this case is the big separator. But at that same time that scale is what shows the ideas of Chaos or Necron influence are false.

Why? Well even if the sword is able to manipulate Farsight, there are still tens or hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of Tau warriors under his command. These warriors are without Ethereals and, as Farsight can only be in one place at any given moment, frequently without the direct influence of Farsight. Yet still they are bonded together and are neither panicked about the loss of their Ethereals (they've been functioning without them for around 250 years) nor flocking back to the Empire.

This proves that not only can Farsight step away from the Ethereals, in the right circumstances so can large numbers of Tau.

Which means that Farsight doesn't need some sort of third power to step away. His own force of will is enough.

Jefffar wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:However those other instances were not as large a scale. Not to mention they didn't completely abandon the greater good and shut the rest of their race out. If this has happened before, why dishonor him by taking his hero title?

Yes, the scale in this case is the big separator. But at that same time that scale is what shows the ideas of Chaos or Necron influence are false.

Why? Well even if the sword is able to manipulate Farsight, there are still tens or hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of Tau warriors under his command. These warriors are without Ethereals and, as Farsight can only be in one place at any given moment, frequently without the direct influence of Farsight. Yet still they are bonded together and are neither panicked about the loss of their Ethereals (they've been functioning without them for around 250 years) nor flocking back to the Empire.

This proves that not only can Farsight step away from the Ethereals, in the right circumstances so can large numbers of Tau.

Which means that Farsight doesn't need some sort of third power to step away. His own force of will is enough.

Farsight was initially placed in command by the ethereals, and during his command the firewarriors learned to trust him and admire him, the death of the Ethereals while I have no doubt caused much concern and sorrow to Farsights troops did not diminish their devotion to him as a leader, and we don't know what speeches he made or explanations he provided to his men, but what ever it was it maintained their displine and morale.

Its a case where a army grew more loyal to its commander than the empire that made it, much like legion in Roman history growing more devoted to its generals than the senate/emperor.

Must be a hell of a guy that farsight.

There's something very fishy about that Dawn Blade, but I can't put my finger on it...

Of course there is something fishy. The authors make an effort to leave hints that something may be up.

At the same time, they don't leave enough evidence to indicate there is actually more than what is the most obvious for what is going on.

We get that a lot with the Tau specifically and 40K in general. There are lots of theories about what is going on with them but very little proof to be found to confirm anything.

Jefffar wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:However those other instances were not as large a scale. Not to mention they didn't completely abandon the greater good and shut the rest of their race out. If this has happened before, why dishonor him by taking his hero title?

Yes, the scale in this case is the big separator. But at that same time that scale is what shows the ideas of Chaos or Necron influence are false.

Why? Well even if the sword is able to manipulate Farsight, there are still tens or hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of Tau warriors under his command. These warriors are without Ethereals and, as Farsight can only be in one place at any given moment, frequently without the direct influence of Farsight. Yet still they are bonded together and are neither panicked about the loss of their Ethereals (they've been functioning without them for around 250 years) nor flocking back to the Empire.

This proves that not only can Farsight step away from the Ethereals, in the right circumstances so can large numbers of Tau.

Which means that Farsight doesn't need some sort of third power to step away. His own force of will is enough.

AAAAHHHH, yes I can see what you are getting at. Good point. As in a sword can't control thousands of minds.

However, does emotion not branch from instinct? Sentient beings tend to follow the born leader. The Allah dog if you will. Farsight is obviously this leader, wielding a sword of great power. Having already held the position of their leader anyways. Who they would have given their lives for. It is much more understandable when viewed this way.

Brother Coa wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:If you can't understand the meaning of the above sentence, please ask someone to explain the meaning to you.

You mean like when Beef claimed that Tau can kill Chaos Gods with million Railguns?

As I've said in another thread of yours:

Kroothawk wrote:His name is BeefCakeSoup, not "most Tau players" or "lots of Tau players".

Kroothawk wrote:
As I've said in another thread of yours:

I know several more of them but I won't name them.
Suffice it to say: you are one of the few Tau fans I respect.
You defend Tau, but not with trolling but with, occasionally, bringing facts. And I like that.

Jefffar wrote:Of course there is something fishy. The authors make an effort to leave hints that something may be up.

At the same time, they don't leave enough evidence to indicate there is actually more than what is the most obvious for what is going on.

We get that a lot with the Tau specifically and 40K in general. There are lots of theories about what is going on with them but very little proof to be found to confirm anything.

That Ward had better not mess up again...I hope he doesn't rewrite the Tau into something from WFB...

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Jefffar wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:However those other instances were not as large a scale. Not to mention they didn't completely abandon the greater good and shut the rest of their race out. If this has happened before, why dishonor him by taking his hero title?

Yes, the scale in this case is the big separator. But at that same time that scale is what shows the ideas of Chaos or Necron influence are false.

Why? Well even if the sword is able to manipulate Farsight, there are still tens or hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of Tau warriors under his command. These warriors are without Ethereals and, as Farsight can only be in one place at any given moment, frequently without the direct influence of Farsight. Yet still they are bonded together and are neither panicked about the loss of their Ethereals (they've been functioning without them for around 250 years) nor flocking back to the Empire.

This proves that not only can Farsight step away from the Ethereals, in the right circumstances so can large numbers of Tau.

Which means that Farsight doesn't need some sort of third power to step away. His own force of will is enough.

AAAAHHHH, yes I can see what you are getting at. Good point. As in a sword can't control thousands of minds.

However, does emotion not branch from instinct? Sentient beings tend to follow the born leader. The Allah dog if you will. Farsight is obviously this leader, wielding a sword of great power. Having already held the position of their leader anyways. Who they would have given their lives for. It is much more understandable when viewed this way.

The main proof of the pudding is if Farsight can get his firewarriors to make war against other Tau, that will be a deciding point in if the sword is truly controlling Farsight and if that control extends to his troops.

It would take a bit of fluff manuvering to make that plausible, I geuss we will see in the new codex, or may not see, such is the whims of GW.

Yes, but if the supposition about Tau not being able to break from the Ethereals were true, the loss of the Ethereals, even with the presence of Farsight would have sent these Tau scurrying back to the Empire.

So there doesn't need to be anything about the blade for Farsight to separate himself from the Empire.

He's got you there coa, beefcakesoup is really the only Tau player that is outlandish with every claim he has made on this site. All the others supply the good debates that I continually check my phone for.

Every time beefcake enters a thread I'm tempted to back out. But I know that's what he wants so I just continue on. Hoping he will go away if I ignore him long enough.

Tadashi wrote:

Jefffar wrote:Of course there is something fishy. The authors make an effort to leave hints that something may be up.

At the same time, they don't leave enough evidence to indicate there is actually more than what is the most obvious for what is going on.

We get that a lot with the Tau specifically and 40K in general. There are lots of theories about what is going on with them but very little proof to be found to confirm anything.

That Ward had better not mess up again...I hope he doesn't rewrite the Tau into something from WFB...

Whoever writes it (still not confirmed) needs to hit a good balance of creating something that seems happy, obvious and without guile on the surface, but has just enough hints at something else to not be totally out of place in the grimdark.



Do the Ethereals actually exert a form of mind influence or mind control over the Tau? Where dd the Ethereals come from? Has Farsight just gone rogue or is he being influenced by a can opener? Does Aun'va wear depends? These sorts of questions shouldn't be answered.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:He's got you there coa, beefcakesoup is really the only Tau player that is outlandish with every claim he has made on this site. All the others supply the good debates that I continually check my phone for.

Every time beefcake enters a thread I'm tempted to back out. But I know that's what he wants so I just continue on. Hoping he will go away if I ignore him long enough.

Well some few other also claim some incredible things...but you are right.
I may as well bury my tomahawk now. Your comment bring me hope

Cold shoulder treatment?