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spaceelf wrote:

insaniak wrote:

spaceelf wrote:I believe that smaller stores are hurt by GW stores.

spaceelf wrote:I have not seen any stores that stay in business based on GW sales, but maybe that is just a local thing.

One of these things doesn't belong...


If an FLGS is relying on GW sales to stay afloat, then yes, a GW store opening nearby might be bad news. But specialising in one particular brand, unless you have some sort of special deal with the owner of that brand, is a surefire way to commit business suicide. I can't speak for other countries, obviously, but here in OZ those stores set up to cater specifically to the GW crowd (usually set up by a gamer who thinks 'Hey, how hard can it be? And I get stuff cheap! Woot!) have never lasted. They totter along selling stuff to their mates for a while, and then eventually collapse and disappear overnight.

For my money, if you're setting up a wargaming store and not including space to actually play games, you're setting yourself up for failure. If you're relying solely on selling GW product, you're also setting yourself up for failure.

If you're providing space to game, and selling other product, then a GW opening up nearby shouldn't necessarily be an issue... because you can do everything they can do, and more.

Your point is taken about the statements.

I firmly believe that FLGS are hurt by local GW stores, as the GW stores compete for their business. Although FLGS can offer things a GW store cannot, they cannot be in two places at once. If the GW shop was more convenient for certain customers at certain times, then the FLGS lost business. Every dollar spent at GW is a dollar not spent at the FLGS. (Both Game Sanctuary and the comic shop had plenty of space to game. (It is the current FLGS that no longer have space))

So your stance is that GW is somehow at fault because they were smarter about running their business than the stores that closed? Golly, mean ol' GW, putting their stores somewhere easy to get to instead of in the middle of the Patascopo River.

The fact of the matter is (and I'd imagine this is true with most people), I'd rather go to one store that carries rpgs, wargames, and ccgs, and supports the attendant community, rather than three separate stores that each specialize in one. How did GW lure away such a signifigant portion of their customer base that it killed them? It certainly wasn't through discounts and loyalty programs, or a willingness to show off and share other games.

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that they'd be competing against each other as well, and not just GW.

curran12 wrote:

Byte wrote:

You could always hit the ignore button in posts in don't like. A tool I should use more often actually...

I totally could, but I am trying (my best anyway) to integrate with the wider community as a whole. I don't want to just block out what bugs me, I want to understand it and hopefully try to find some middle ground.

I never was a fan of the "well if you don't like it, just ignore it" philosophy. If I don't like something, me ignoring it isn't going to make it vanish.

Mate, you've been a member here for less than 2 months, and at this point, fractionally over 5% of your posts are in this thread essentially trolling others. There's a lot to talk about on Dakka, and trolling others with talk about PP (Privateer Press? Who was talking about them?) The "I don't ignore things I don't like" stance doesn't make much sense on the internet. You're not exactly going to affect change by trolling in this thread.

Games Workshop Vorhees in NJ is probably going to close soon. After firing their previous manager, alot of the regulars and those loyal to him just stopped purchasing from the stores or simply stop coming.

Yeah, if the internet is to be believed, hundreds of customers have fled the store.

*cough*

I've never been into a GW store. I don't see the need. All I hear is horror stories about them.

The hobby will survive if the GW's close.

In this economy, you really have to be on your game to stay afloat as a store. Money is very tight nowadays. Gaming is a hobby built for those with disposable income. As a store, you have to get people in the store and spending money to even have a hope to stay afloat, plus you need them to keep coming back and spending lots of money in the store.

GW sells one brand of products, their own. They offer gaming space, and teach newbies how to play the game, they also do this at full retail price. As a retailer, you have the ability to undercut their prices by a small amount and still make a healthy profit, they don't have that luxury.

A gaming store needs to have ample gaming space. A single table in a corner will help a bit, but it won't win the war. My local FLGS for example has around 20 tables, and in the evening, on most nights many of them are in use through wise use of planning events. There are different leagues for different games. Magic the Gathering being a big part of their business, having good prize support and a good community gets a lot of asses in chairs, and to participate in stuff like Friday Night Magic, everyone has to buy in to the round which provides packs of cards. My FLGS also has reps from different companies doing demo games. They also provide a large bookshelf full of board games that you can just pick up and play if you are waiting for people to show up.

They also chose a very good location for the store. It's not on a highway, but a 4 lane street with ample fast food/restaurant options nearby. It is also on a city bus route that lets younger gamers get to the store without bugging their parents for a ride.

They also keep their finger on the pulse of the local gaming community to make sure they can supply the products for what people want to play, but also being diverse enough that any single product line falling out of favor won't sink them. Recently the community got into Heroclix and Infinity. By wise use of leagues for games, you get more people seeing the game being played, which then they might pick up to be able to participate. Would I have picked up a decent sized Hordes army if I hadn't seen it played at the store quite often? Not a chance.

At my local store, for now at least, Fantasy is on the wane, which means my FLGS doesn't stock as much there, a GW store on the other hand, has to fully stock the game and then sit on that stock hoping to shift it. At my store, GW terrain has edged into the fantasy rack, from its previous spot on the 40k wall, while the 40k wall has taken advantage of the extra space and stocked up even more since that is 'hot' right now. Infinity took a bit of the Privateer Press section, leaving it just slightly under double the size of the Fantasy section, and the D&D and other RPG wall has been pretty steady.

GW store employees are (mostly) just enthusiastic gamers who got hired by GW. Of course there's fanbois amongst them, but in the end the overarching majority of them that I've met are just nice guys who work in a GW store. Sure, they've outwardly over-enthusiastic about the stuff, and hype up the latest releases, but that's part of their job as well, and if they didn't do that, they'd end up made redundant.

I stop in my local GW (at the Mall 15 minutes from home) and pick up WD every month. Sometimes I'll pick up something small and hobby-related like a wash or something like Liquid GS, etc, but I don't buy figures there - I used to occasionally, but not after the last price hikes. My former FLGS is about an hour away, and has never been run by people all that Friendly anyway...

edit - replying to Horst.

They've never closed an Australian store.

Honestly... one shop? This is based on the closure of one shop? Shops close and open all the time. In case you haven't noticed, it's a recession, and GW isn't immune to that.

filbert wrote:Not only that, but if I may be permitted to make a bit of a sweeping generalisation, the US seems to have a much more fluid retail scene as far as GW are concerned - there seems to be a constant churn of stores opening and closing.

Contrast that with the UK where the vast majority of GW stores are well established - my local GW has been running in the same location for 20 years or so now (I should also mention that's not say that the UK hasn't had it's share of closures/new openings too!)

Indeed.

Although conversely the sheer almost monopoly GW stores have in the UK means it's hard for a FLGS to get established as a lot of gamers I've met locally seem to have a "GW or nothing" attitude due to the fact their only gaming outlet was a GW store (this is obviously different in places like Mansfield for example where Maelstrom is a strong presence on the gaming community).

It always strikes me as something our American cousins don't "get" (just as some of us UKers cannot fathom why they've never seen a GW store in their life. America is big.) Whereas they have a churn and burn of GW stores and many an FLGS out there (compared to the UK, I can count the major ones on 1 hand more or less) to play all of the games under the sun that they feel like, many people in the UK are simply restricted to playing GW's games unless they can start a gaming club, play at home or go to their FLGS if they have one.

To me, this is felt most harshly at my local gaming club, that we've been trying for many years to get Warmahordes going there, people just aren't having it, they have their GW security blanket and don't want to branch out. As of last week I've been fanning the flames somewhat and running demos and showing off the models so hopefully it will pick up, but whatever my point was again before I went on this ramble, GW's foothold in the UK stymies the growth of the hobby in public view IMO and I'm failing to see how a store closing is an entirely bad thing for the community as they will have to adapt, maybe form a gaming club; something which I've heard is not a very widespread thing in the US, with gaming clubs being a very UK... thing.

GW stores closing might be good news for nearby FLGSs, but it would NOT be good news for GW's "competitors".

Make no mistake, GW's largest "rival" is nowhere near the size of GW. The mini wargaming hobby is a niche of a niche, and is only as big as it is because of GW. If GW never existed, mini wargaming would be a bunch of old men playing napoleonics, and a few crusty grognards holding on to scraps of battletech. So no, GW being in trouble is NOT good news for their "competitors"... GW is the battleship that all the other little frigates sail safely in the shadow of.

However, stores closing cast NO reflection on the overall state of GW. Its simply the sign of bean-counters being on point. Keep in mind, GW is the ONLY miniatures company with ANY stores. If a store isnt showing growth, why not close it down? Saves GW costs, while local hobbyists will still buy online or at other FLGSs.

It seems all the GW hate stems from gamers who aren't comfortable with GW actually being ran like every other retail corporation, rather than a couple fellas pouring molds in their basement. Its just the nature of the beast when something grows to that size. Let's not hate on success. If you really want to see something fail that would please miniatures games companies... quit playing video games.

I guess I love the hobby enough, I don't want to see ANY miniatures company fail.

Battle Ready Studios wrote:GW stores closing might be good news for nearby FLGSs, but it would NOT be good news for GW's "competitors".

Make no mistake, GW's largest "rival" is nowhere near the size of GW. The mini wargaming hobby is a niche of a niche, and is only as big as it is because of GW. If GW never existed, mini wargaming would be a bunch of old men playing napoleonics, and a few crusty grognards holding on to scraps of battletech. So no, GW being in trouble is NOT good news for their "competitors"... GW is the battleship that all the other little frigates sail safely in the shadow of.

However, stores closing cast NO reflection on the overall state of GW. Its simply the sign of bean-counters being on point. Keep in mind, GW is the ONLY miniatures company with ANY stores. If a store isnt showing growth, why not close it down? Saves GW costs, while local hobbyists will still buy online or at other FLGSs.

It seems all the GW hate stems from gamers who aren't comfortable with GW actually being ran like every other retail corporation, rather than a couple fellas pouring molds in their basement. Its just the nature of the beast when something grows to that size. Let's not hate on success. If you really want to see something fail that would please miniatures games companies... quit playing video games.

I guess I love the hobby enough, I don't want to see ANY miniatures company fail.

Wow, you really drank from the cool aid didn't you?

I could get on a lengthy tirade on sales figures and the like, but after having visited your site, I'll give you the same discount that I give other people that wouldn't make a living without GW. Its your way of making a buck, so I'll rate your post in accordance.

PhantomViper wrote:
Wow, you really drank from the cool aid didn't you?

I could get on a lengthy tirade on sales figures and the like, but after having visited your site, I'll give you the same discount that I give other people that wouldn't make a living without GW. Its your way of making a buck, so I'll rate your post in accordance.

There's drinking the cool aid, and then there's bathing in the stuff.

I suspect that a lot of the vitriol is that many people actually liked Warhammer and all that it has begat. What they hate is what GW (The business model) insists on doing to both the hobby at large and the HOBBY they insist they are. Like a good friend from childhood growing up to be a dick.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I suspect that a lot of the vitriol is that many people actually liked Warhammer and all that it has begat. What they hate is what GW (The business model) insists on doing to both the hobby at large and the HOBBY they insist they are. Like a good friend from childhood growing up to be a dick.

This, at least for me. I would love to be more involved with GW games. I have a partially finished skaven army at home that can attest to that. But it's hard to get motivated to finish it when prices keep going up, and the reports that I hear about this edition of Fantasy are so bad.

To the OP... Chill out, dude. One store closing isn't the end of the world, and none of us should want it to be. We want GW to get better, not die.

rockerbikie wrote:They've never closed an Australian store.

I've never seen an English store close... *prepares to be proved wrong*... as repeated before one store closin gis not the end of the world. They may be opening another nearby in a better spot.

rockerbikie wrote:They've never closed an Australian store.

They've downsized a few though, and moved a couple to less expensive locations.

PhantomViper wrote:

Battle Ready Studios wrote:GW stores closing might be good news for nearby FLGSs, but it would NOT be good news for GW's "competitors".

Make no mistake, GW's largest "rival" is nowhere near the size of GW. The mini wargaming hobby is a niche of a niche, and is only as big as it is because of GW. If GW never existed, mini wargaming would be a bunch of old men playing napoleonics, and a few crusty grognards holding on to scraps of battletech. So no, GW being in trouble is NOT good news for their "competitors"... GW is the battleship that all the other little frigates sail safely in the shadow of.

However, stores closing cast NO reflection on the overall state of GW. Its simply the sign of bean-counters being on point. Keep in mind, GW is the ONLY miniatures company with ANY stores. If a store isnt showing growth, why not close it down? Saves GW costs, while local hobbyists will still buy online or at other FLGSs.

It seems all the GW hate stems from gamers who aren't comfortable with GW actually being ran like every other retail corporation, rather than a couple fellas pouring molds in their basement. Its just the nature of the beast when something grows to that size. Let's not hate on success. If you really want to see something fail that would please miniatures games companies... quit playing video games.

I guess I love the hobby enough, I don't want to see ANY miniatures company fail.

Wow, you really drank from the cool aid didn't you?

I could get on a lengthy tirade on sales figures and the like, but after having visited your site, I'll give you the same discount that I give other people that wouldn't make a living without GW. Its your way of making a buck, so I'll rate your post in accordance.

Its just math.

Privateer is commonly accepted as GW's largest competitor. Since they are not publicly traded, their financials are not easily accessible. However, several independent business profile services including Hoovers, Manta, and Dun & Bradstreet note Privateer as generating $1m to $5m in yearly sales. Even if the true number is as much as 300% higher than that, it still puts their sales at roughly 10% of GW's yearly sales.

As hobbyists, we can often have a difficult time seperating our hobby prejudices and preferences from what is actually occurring out there in the business world. I quite like Warmachine (Khador is the coolest faction in any game. ever.), I enjoy other wargames such as Flames of War and Infinity. I am also quite intrigued by games like Dust Tactics and Dystopian Wars ...I only seem to receive GW commissions because that is the VAST majority of miniatures gamers out there.

Really my point is that we can like other companies and hope they grow and do well WITHOUT wishing ill on Big Bad GW.

Guildsman wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I suspect that a lot of the vitriol is that many people actually liked Warhammer and all that it has begat. What they hate is what GW (The business model) insists on doing to both the hobby at large and the HOBBY they insist they are. Like a good friend from childhood growing up to be a dick.

This, at least for me. I would love to be more involved with GW games. I have a partially finished skaven army at home that can attest to that. But it's hard to get motivated to finish it when prices keep going up, and the reports that I hear about this edition of Fantasy are so bad.

To the OP... Chill out, dude. One store closing isn't the end of the world, and none of us should want it to be. We want GW to get better, not die.

Instead of listening to reports, why not try and see what you think for yourself?

Brother SRM wrote:Stores open and close all the time. I don't think it's a "beginning of the end" or whatever. Cool your jets.

agreed

Battle Ready Studios wrote:GW stores closing might be good news for nearby FLGSs, but it would NOT be good news for GW's "competitors".

Make no mistake, GW's largest "rival" is nowhere near the size of GW. The mini wargaming hobby is a niche of a niche, and is only as big as it is because of GW. If GW never existed, mini wargaming would be a bunch of old men playing napoleonics, and a few crusty grognards holding on to scraps of battletech. So no, GW being in trouble is NOT good news for their "competitors"... GW is the battleship that all the other little frigates sail safely in the shadow of.

However, stores closing cast NO reflection on the overall state of GW. Its simply the sign of bean-counters being on point. Keep in mind, GW is the ONLY miniatures company with ANY stores. If a store isnt showing growth, why not close it down? Saves GW costs, while local hobbyists will still buy online or at other FLGSs.

It seems all the GW hate stems from gamers who aren't comfortable with GW actually being ran like every other retail corporation, rather than a couple fellas pouring molds in their basement. Its just the nature of the beast when something grows to that size. Let's not hate on success. If you really want to see something fail that would please miniatures games companies... quit playing video games.

I guess I love the hobby enough, I don't want to see ANY miniatures company fail.

It is irrelevant to debate the history of mini wargaming. You never really state the reason that you think that GW closing would be bad for their competitors. I am confident that if GW closed up shop the hobby would continue, and that most GW customers would migrate to other games such as Warmachine. This is an outcome that would definitely benefit their competitors. (I do not think that GW will go out of business anytime soon. I do not hope that the company goes out of business. However, I would like the company to change its policies and stop treating its customers and employees like dirt.)

In terms of your comment about closing stores that are not in growth I would like to respond there are many reasons not to close a store that is not in growth. Firstly, the economy is in a dreadful state, and thus expecting growth at this point in time is not realistic. Secondly, and more pertinently, the store may actually be profitable, but not in growth. If I owned a store that made money in this economy I would be quite happy, even if said store were not in growth.

space wrote:elf I am confident that if GW closed up shop the hobby would continue, and that most GW customers would migrate to other games such as Warmachine.

You are more deluded than I suspected.

curran12 wrote:And thanks for proving my problems with the PP community. It's not about the games, it is about you wanting to be smug and condescending.

<broadcast mode active: enhance your calm, and keep your discussions on-topic, or you may experience some problems here, too>

infinite_array wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
Wow, you really drank from the cool aid didn't you?

There's drinking the cool aid, and then there's bathing in the stuff.

Lets get one thing straight here, it's spelled "Kool Aid"

Also, given that the phrase originated with the Jonestown massacre, they used Flavorade, the cheap knockoff.

Towson native for a few years now--I've been to the Yorkridge store a number of times.

I feel bad that it's closing, but I'm not surprised.

The store in question was always clean and well-stocked, but it was regrettably closed on Mondays and Tuesdays, which usually meant that my post-gaming-weekend dollar got spent on Amazon.

The store also never opened earlier than 2 p.m. on weekdays, which meant that if I wanted to get in an early afternoon game (I'm a student) with a friend then I'd have to go elsewhere, and elsewhere we went.

Rounding out the trifecta were the lunch breaks, made necessary by the store's light staffing. There was an hour or so lunch break during which the store was closed, every day. Although these were always regularly scheduled and John once opened up so I could buy something I'd called ahead about, scheduling one's visits around the proprietor's lunch was always a bit of a turn-off.

Honestly, I'm not even certain if this is an involuntary closure. Although the staff was professional, the lack of hours suggests to me that John really wasn't into the store.

There are also several other stores in the area, both GW (White Marsh is about 20 mins away) and otherwise (Collector's Corner is about 10 mins away). Both of these stores keeps good hours and the area does not lack for good gaming stores.

this just in


all companies are closing stores world wide



the retail store is dying, most people shop online these days



and as long as you are playing with GW models, GW could care less where you get it,m they sold it to them anyways

phantommaster wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:They've never closed an Australian store.

I've never seen an English store close... *prepares to be proved wrong*... as repeated before one store closin gis not the end of the world. They may be opening another nearby in a better spot.

Apparently there used to be one here in Wisbech but it disappeared...we used to have a GW factory too...that moved up north for some reason :/


And I too do not want GW to fail...the only other FLGS I know of is at least 2 hours drive away. Without my local GW there is nowhere else I can go to to be part of the hobby.

Yorkridge? Never heard of it

We have the Battle Bunker in Bowie (The BBB), it only makes sense to close down the one's that are out-performed.

That Yorkridge location was doomed when Borders closed. Its in a weird location, with not much around it. You cant see the store from the road either. York road is awful to travel on. Between that store's hours and the just sheer dreadfulness of Legends over the past decade, Towson and the surrounding areas has been under served when it comes to Warhammer, and gaming in general.

As erewego86 said, slide over a few miles around the beltway and things seem much greener. The White Marsh GW has to keep a 7 day, full day schedule due to the shopping area they are in. They have tons of foot traffic going by all day, and do a good job of fostering community. Collector's Corner seems to be finding a good balance, especially after the move. In general, Baltimore is not hurting for gaming options, both still having a huge amount of GW stores and some good to great indy places. I couldn't say if the closing is isolated or not, but I'd guess that it is GW closing a store that no longer made sense to keep open.

At Erewego86: That's actually pretty close to the hours that GW is mandating for all of it's one man stores. They take two days off a week, usually mon/tue, and have to take that hour break. Aren't really allowed not to. The two Philly stores keep mostly the same hours. I don't see the point myself, but I quit trying to wrap my mind around what the UK mandates the US market to do.

There's a lot of reasons why they might be closing the store. Foremost is that the lease is up. It may not be a good place to keep a GW store, especially if there are a lot of empty shops in the center, especially a dead Borders. Rent is negotiable in this economy. GW may just be closing that store, re-evaluting the Baltimore area and deciding if they want another store nearby, or it they are good with the stores they have.

Considering how many different people have talked to me in the last two weeks about opening stores in Baltimore, I don't think the area will be hurting for long. May get substantially better for gaming in fact.