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*pulls out popcorn*

Excellent, should be good!

Personally I am glad to see GWs close. I am happy to see an opportunity for small local businesses.

This has nothing to do with hating GW as I still give them plenty of my cash, I just prefer to see an independent stockist get their share of the pie.

Probably also has a lot to do with the fact that I am also a small business owner.

One Store closing isn't the end of the world

This lashing out at people who criticize GW is equally silly. The company does quite a few things which understandably angers its customers. Do they generally make high quality products and have (at least a history of) producing excellent settings for their games? Yes. Do they overcharge, are they overly paranoid/secretive, treat the Pacific like crap, treat WD like a catalog, unfair towards independent retailers, and are they outright bastards to their fanbase/internet community? Yes

Harriticus wrote:This lashing out at people who criticize GW is equally silly. The company does quite a few things which understandably angers its customers. Do they generally make high quality products and have (at least a history of) producing excellent settings for their games? Yes. Do they overcharge, are they overly paranoid/secretive, treat the Pacific like crap, treat WD like a catalog, unfair towards independent retailers, and are they outright bastards to their fanbase/internet community? Yes

And Jervis helps blind kittens...

marielle wrote:And Jervis helps blind kittens...

...to cross the road safely.

Dysartes wrote:

marielle wrote:And Jervis helps blind kittens...

...to cross the road safely.

... in order that they can be "sacrificed" on the alter of Slaanesh by Kirby, along with the hopes and dreams of all who enjoy GW games!

Dysartes wrote:

marielle wrote:And Jervis helps blind kittens...

...to cross the road safely.

Nah, he just help blind kittens.

curran12 wrote:I never was a fan of the "well if you don't like it, just ignore it" philosophy. If I don't like something, me ignoring it isn't going to make it vanish.

Why does it need to vanish? People are entitled to their opinion. They're entitled to express that opinion... that's what the forum is for.

If you're perception is that the majority of posts about GW are negative, perhaps it would be more productive to look into why people are negative about GW, rather than simply dismissing them as a 'problem' that needs to be dealt with somehow.

Dakka is not inherently anti-GW. That would be a little self-defeating since the site has always had a fairly major 40K focus. There certainly are some posters who feel strongly about GW and their recent (and in some cases not so recent) actions... but those posters are no more representative of Dakka as a whole than those posters who seem to feel that GW can do no wrong.

Most of us sit somewhere in between the two extremes, just like in pretty much any community.


On topic - I would agree that one store closing doesn't really say anything in itself, nor is it a 'beginning' of anything. GW have been re-sizing, closing and opening stores all along. One particular store closing just means that they decided to close that store.

While I have no love of 'finecast', to the OP: getting rid of fine cast won't save them money, so I'm not sure why you even mention it... finecast does nothing but save money for GW...especially with the fluctuation in tin prices over the years (read: exponential growth in price).

spaceelf wrote:In terms of their stores in particular, they put lots of FLGS out of business by opening GW stores, and now close their stores, leaving the community without a store.

Portugal Jones wrote:
Funny how whenever called to put forth actual proof, this claim usually turns out to be overblown bs, and you see things like people bitching bitterly about 'that store that GW put out of business,' that actually closed years before GW put on in the area. Who knew that GW was putting Orrikan's space time shennanigans to use in their business model?

spaceelf wrote:
Lots of Balmer area stores have closed, and others stopped carrying GW products and miniature games in general since GW expanded.

Game Sanctuary in Towson, and another comic shop in Towson closed. Alternate Worlds stopped carrying GW products. Legends of Towson has stopped dealing in miniature games.

Sergeant Horse wrote:
did they close due to GW, or were they financially unsound? What other products did they carry? It's a bad idea to only rely on one type of product. Have you looked indepth into their Tax Returns too see what they were spending money on?

Game Sanctuary carried a full range of Minis, RPGs, and MTG. The comic shop that I no longer remember the name of carried comics, MTG, and Minis. Having GW stores nearby undercut their business. Alternate Worlds and Legends are both still in business and used to carry GW products. They have since stopped because they are better off carrying other merchandise. Maybe that is why they are still in business.

Portugal Jones wrote:
What, if anything, did GW have to do with any of them going out of business? Does the timing even work? There are a lot of GW stores in the vicinity of Baltimore, so if every time a gaming store folds you blame GW, you're going to have a nice, long list, that doesn't actually have anything to do with GW but certainly sounds mean when you reel it off.

In my area GW stores took business away from the FLGS. If someone buys a box o marines at GW then they will not buy it at the FLGS. As GW expanded in the area, more and more FLGS went under and others stopped carrying GW items.

@ Mikhaila: You are correct Yorkridge is just about 12 on the Baltimore Beltway. There are FLGS stores in Baltimore, but few of them have gaming space.

Obviously your FLGS is very successful and is not stifled by GW. However, you are very much the 800 lb gorilla of FLGS. I believe that smaller stores are hurt by GW stores.

I can see MTG and Yu Gi Oh keeping stores alive. I have not seen any stores that stay in business based on GW sales, but maybe that is just a local thing.

As insaniak would know - in Brisbane/Ipswich we have had a few openings/closures/Staff reductions over the last few years.

All in all - I think the Thread Topic is somewhat misleading personally. YMMV.

All the power to the Independent stockists - Like Mikhaila etc.

And furthermore - to support his statement about cooperation between independant stores and GW - good business is where you make it. It doesn't just mystically appear.

spaceelf wrote:I believe that smaller stores are hurt by GW stores.

spaceelf wrote:I have not seen any stores that stay in business based on GW sales, but maybe that is just a local thing.

One of these things doesn't belong...


If an FLGS is relying on GW sales to stay afloat, then yes, a GW store opening nearby might be bad news. But specialising in one particular brand, unless you have some sort of special deal with the owner of that brand, is a surefire way to commit business suicide. I can't speak for other countries, obviously, but here in OZ those stores set up to cater specifically to the GW crowd (usually set up by a gamer who thinks 'Hey, how hard can it be? And I get stuff cheap! Woot!) have never lasted. They totter along selling stuff to their mates for a while, and then eventually collapse and disappear overnight.

For my money, if you're setting up a wargaming store and not including space to actually play games, you're setting yourself up for failure. If you're relying solely on selling GW product, you're also setting yourself up for failure.

If you're providing space to game, and selling other product, then a GW opening up nearby shouldn't necessarily be an issue... because you can do everything they can do, and more.

insaniak wrote:

spaceelf wrote:I believe that smaller stores are hurt by GW stores.

spaceelf wrote:I have not seen any stores that stay in business based on GW sales, but maybe that is just a local thing.

One of these things doesn't belong...


If an FLGS is relying on GW sales to stay afloat, then yes, a GW store opening nearby might be bad news. But specialising in one particular brand, unless you have some sort of special deal with the owner of that brand, is a surefire way to commit business suicide. I can't speak for other countries, obviously, but here in OZ those stores set up to cater specifically to the GW crowd (usually set up by a gamer who thinks 'Hey, how hard can it be? And I get stuff cheap! Woot!) have never lasted. They totter along selling stuff to their mates for a while, and then eventually collapse and disappear overnight.

For my money, if you're setting up a wargaming store and not including space to actually play games, you're setting yourself up for failure. If you're relying solely on selling GW product, you're also setting yourself up for failure.

If you're providing space to game, and selling other product, then a GW opening up nearby shouldn't necessarily be an issue... because you can do everything they can do, and more.

Your point is taken about the statements.

I firmly believe that FLGS are hurt by local GW stores, as the GW stores compete for their business. Although FLGS can offer things a GW store cannot, they cannot be in two places at once. If the GW shop was more convenient for certain customers at certain times, then the FLGS lost business. Every dollar spent at GW is a dollar not spent at the FLGS. (Both Game Sanctuary and the comic shop had plenty of space to game. (It is the current FLGS that no longer have space))

The comment about GW sales keeping stores in business seems to be in keeping with your experience. GW sales alone do not keep a shop in business. However, without the income from them some shops go under.

Some people have commented about the title being misleading. Although I do not know of any other GW store closures, I suspect that there will be a good number of them. The reason is that GW has been trying to bolster its financial picture by cutting staff. They are currently running a skeleton crew of one man stores. The next thing to go are the stores themselves.

insaniak wrote:One of these things doesn't belong...

Thats because no other possibility for an indy shop going out of business exists. It can only be GW. Not the economy, not poor/inexperienced management on an owners parts, not an increase in rent or utilities, not an internet site offering the same stock and a more convenient shopping experience with a few simple mouse clicks, not just plain old disinterest in running a shop or any other external factor. Doom only comes when the evil yellow and red sign is hoisted over a new gaming store across town that sells only one product, allows only one product into its store and sells those products at regular retail thats already too high for some.

insaniak wrote: If you're providing space to game, and selling other product, then a GW opening up nearby shouldn't necessarily be an issue... because you can do everything they can do, and more.

A good case in point for that is Games and Stuff in Glen Burnie. It stayed in business before, during and after GW had its HQ and battle bunker in the same town, 5-10 minutes down the street, with about a half dozen smaller hobby centers in the baltimore metro area as well. They actually advertised for that store and a few others in the general area when the bunker was closing down.

As pointed out, thread title is misleading, as GW has been closing and opening stores for years and isn't indicative of any sort of trend. For better or worse, its business as usual.

Not only that, but if I may be permitted to make a bit of a sweeping generalisation, the US seems to have a much more fluid retail scene as far as GW are concerned - there seems to be a constant churn of stores opening and closing.

Contrast that with the UK where the vast majority of GW stores are well established - my local GW has been running in the same location for 20 years or so now (I should also mention that's not say that the UK hasn't had it's share of closures/new openings too!)

Apparently GW has been doing interviews/posting openings for a GW store to open in the Des Moines area in February.

spaceelf wrote:Obviously your FLGS is very successful and is not stifled by GW. However, you are very much the 800 lb gorilla of FLGS. I believe that smaller stores are hurt by GW stores.

How do you think I got to be an 800lb gorilla?) Part of my stores success is absolutely because I pushed GW (and many other games) quite hard, carried a full line, and ran a lot of events. And I did a lot of that to make absolutely sure I wouldn't be losing business to a GW store. If I'm doing everything they do, why should someone go elsewhere to buy things? If it's due to geographic convenience, that's something that can happen due to any other store, not just a GW.

End of the day, GW stores run a ton of demo games and get people into GW games. A local FLGS can certainly take advantage of that. It's not automatic, and not easy. Don't do the work and the GW will be a drain on your store. Then again, so will other FLGS, walmart, 7-11's, etc.



spaceelf wrote:
I have not seen any stores that stay in business based on GW sales, but maybe that is just a local thing.

Definitely a local thing. I know of many stores that can do over 10k a month in GW. Even 6k a month can pay the rent for a medium sized store. Stores not working too hard at GW will have a few hundred in sales per month.

My lord! Whenever I log it seems like another 50 of these treadds have poped up. I do not agree with everything GW dose, but they provide me with plastic crack. And if a shop closes so be it, I can always shop online

Oh! Look at this!

I've never seen this thread. Golly gee winnickers Batman. Oh! That reminds me I have to get back to posting my Konrad Kruze vs Batman Thread. Then after that i'm going to go update my blog full of DIY chapter that fought with the Tau in the Ghoul Stars.

To whichever sod reads this. I want you not to assume my voice as smug but as the most high pitched jittery cackle you've ever heard. Like the Joker if he lost his testicles in a knife fight with Scarecrow and inhaled a -lot- of helium.

Shadowbrand wrote:Oh! Look at this!

I've never seen this thread. Golly gee winnickers Batman. Oh! That reminds me I have to get back to posting my Konrad Kruze vs Batman Thread. Then after that i'm going to go update my blog full of DIY chapter that fought with the Tau in the Ghoul Stars.

To whichever sod reads this. I want you not to assume my voice as smug but as the most high pitched jittery cackle you've ever heard. Like the Joker if he lost his testicles in a knife fight with Scarecrow and inhaled a -lot- of helium.

THIS wins the tread by a longshot! Seriosly, why do we keep making these damned tarpits of treads! Its not like abybody is holding a knife to your neck and forcing you play GW games is it!

Aaaaaand here come the white knights!

Took them long enough this time.

Well to be fair. It's about a store closure. That's alittle more rare. It's just the way he worded it he obviously sounds like he's having a good time. I'd fething croak if my store closed. Sure theres two. But the other one is ripe full of WAAC gamers. And i'm willing to bet some hardcore Privateer Press elitists. They probably would take me if I brought my Beastmen or Space Wolves. And shackle me. And make me destroy all my models.

Then make me ride the Spanish Donkey if I didn't comply. So yeah. I'd defiantly make a thread if my store closed. I'd also go into vivid detail about my fond memories of getting into this great hobby which I all owe to it. And the lovely group of people I play games with every thursday.

...White Knight eh? That's a fething first. If I didn't wear my current tag with pride. I'd quote that guy. I think i've been called everything -but- that.

Thanks man.

Trondheim wrote:Seriosly, why do we keep making these damned tarpits of treads! Its not like abybody is holding a knife to your neck and forcing you play GW games is it!

People are invested in their hobbies. Is it really surprising that they want to discuss it when things happen that affect that hobby?

If I may speak on behalf of my good pal Trondheim. I think Insaniak he's commenting on the fact it's turning into a GW bashing thread. Not what I think the original point of the thread was. The closure of GW stores.

Shadowbrand wrote:...White Knight eh? That's a fething first. If I didn't wear my current tag with pride. I'd quote that guy. I think i've been called everything -but- that.

Thanks man.

Actually I was referring to Trondheim, I couldn't understand a word of your post to begin with. But you can keep the title if you wan't it...

Oh, well it wouldn't be fair to take his title.

I'm not a thief. I'm a crazy fether. But stealing is whack yo.

PhantomViper wrote:Aaaaaand here come the white knights!

Took them long enough this time.

Why yes, we where just talking about you

Aduro wrote:Apparently GW has been doing interviews/posting openings for a GW store to open in the Des Moines area in February.

what took them so long? I remember when GW was only a thought in that town.


The thred is full of winning, though.

How on earth is one store closing in a well covered area the Doomrider taking your first born?

The other cat spouting off about it didn't help, but point of fact, your kinda going overboard on the assumptions in your op, and continuing posts.

Only option you have left is to drop an F bomb and ragequit.

Ease up on the hyperbole, and leave some for the rest of us.

Trondheim wrote: Its not like abybody is holding a knife to your neck and forcing you play GW games is it!

It's not like anybody is holding a knife to your neck and making you read this, is it?!