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Frazzled wrote:American Graffiti was good, but I liked Hollywood Knights much more.

Yes Empire was the best.

I like the Indie films quite a bit (except Crystal Skull, that was just sad)

"He grabbed it.....he grabbed it, he, he grabbed it with his ****!" Ahh hollywood knights, that movie just does not get enough credit.

THX1138 is still pretty cool.

Lucas is just like every other artist, they do their best work when they are unknown and hungry.

Never been a fan of Starwars, and really not a fan of Lucas as a person, director, and certainly not as a writer.

SilverMK2 wrote:Never been a fan of Starwars, and really not a fan of Lucas as a person, director, and certainly not as a writer.

I tend to agree. I feel that the Star Wars films in particular are incredibly overrated by certain folks. Special mention must go to the acting, which is uniformly dreadful in all three of the originals.

Henners91 wrote: Sure we get a nice CGI fight at the end but up till then it's Lucas-tries-to-do-romance.

Did we watch the same movie? The duel in AotC was the worst of all the films? And for that to have followed the Duel in TPM
was even crazier. Obi/Qui-Gon/Maul was very physical and intense. even with the stupid random force field high jinx. The one in AotC
looked like 2 actors swinging flashlights infront of themselves, just out of camera view. WEAK!

The best things about the prequels were both killed off in TPM: Ray Park and Liam Neeson. Killing off the two most interesting and original (for the prequels, anyway) characters right out of the gate should have been a big ol' red flag of what was to come.

Ahtman wrote:The best things about the prequels were both killed off in TPM: Ray Park and Liam Neeson. Killing off the two most interesting and original (for the prequels, anyway) characters right out of the gate should have been a big ol' red flag of what was to come.

Also, not re-hiring the professional weapon master that does all the best melee weapon based fight choreography in Hollywood was probably a bad plan.

I am happy because maybe this is a sign of Star Wars might get some proper love eventually.

Having read the original script (lucas wrote all 6 movies in 1 script, chose the last 3 to make) I just wish he would have just fething stuck with it. Good riddence George. Fuel your crack habit another way. Whoring out the star wars universe no longer is how you get your fix.

Fafnir wrote:Even then, I wouldn't say they were brilliant. Starwars was a real marvel of technology at the time, and had a solid plot and some iconic characters, but hardly anything original or thought provoking.

Star Wars really was an exceptional story. The reason it doesn't feel so amazing now is because it's been copied over and over again.

You can find early scripts for Star Wars online, as well as short stories by Lucas that are very similar, and they give a decent glimpse into what 70s science fiction was like at the time. Lucas had the instinct to want something more fun, more like the pulpy sci-fi of years gone by, but left to his own devices what he was producing still had all the gobblidigook of the sci-fi of the time.

Francis Ford Coppola took him away for a week, and just hammered into Lucas everything he knew about storytelling. Lucas then put that into Star Wars, and the result was basically the invention of the high concept movie… the modern blockbuster.

Over time Lucas has steadily lost the disciplines Coppola hammered into him, and it’s funny how much the over plotted, tedious mess that was the prequels have in common with Lucas’s early drafts for Star Wars.


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Frazzled wrote:I thought Spielberg did the Indiana Jones movies. Am I wrong in that?

Lucas wrote and produced, Spielberg directed and produced. There was close collaboration between the two men throughout the process.

The big thing is that Lucas loves the hell out of the old serial pulp adventures, and that's basically what Indiana Jones is. The idea of whip cracking archaeologist going from site to site, battling nazis to uncover mystical artifacts is all Lucas.


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Kilkrazy wrote:A lot of people reckon Lucas's best film ever was "American Graffitti".

Whereas those of us who've seen it know otherwise. I mean, it's an alright movie and everything, but it would have been long forgotten if it wasn't by the guy who made Star Wars.

It was Spielberg who directed all the Indiana Jones films so you can't blame Lucas for those.

Lucas wrote and produced, and the idea of having a hero like in those old serial adventures was all Lucas.

And why would be 'blame' anyone for the Indiana Jones movies? The first is about as good an adventure movie as there's ever been.


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Henners91 wrote:I think I am the only guy on the planet who honestly prefers Return of the Jedi...

Nothing happens in Empire! We get lovely Hoth and then some incredibly boring exploits on Cloud City whilst Luke plays around in a swamp... Finally Luke turns up at Bespin, gets the chance to have that immortal line delivered to him, reacts worse than Hayden Chrstiansen: NOOOOOOOOOOOO-NOOOOOO-NOOOOOOO! and the films ends with his kewl robotic hand.

The heroes are hiding on the ice planet Hoth when the Empire discovers them and attacks, despite the efforts of our heroes they are overwhelmed and have to retreat. Our heroes split up at this point, with the Millennium Falcon chased by Empire forces through an asteroid field, and when they hide in an asteroid it turns out it’s actually a space monster, forcing another hasty escape, at which point they hide on a starship before craftily sneaking away, before fleeing to Cloud City to meet up with an old friend, Lando, who it turns out betrayed them to the Empire, and they are captured. They are held captive as a trap for Luke, with Han frozen solid in carbonite.

While that was all happening Meanwhile, Luke travelled to Hoth to meet a wise old Jedi master, who begins to train him, only for Luke to see a vision of his friend’s capture, and head off to save them.

It turns out Lando was only helping the Empire reluctantly, and frees Leia and Chewie, and they all head off to try and save Han. Luke arrives, but is directed away from his friends and into a conflict with Darth Vader, and in their duel he first cuts off Luke's hand, then tells him he is his father. Luke refuses to believe this. The others are unsuccessful in rescuing Han, and flee the station. Luke flees his father, falling through the station. Leaving Cloud City, Leia feels look is in need of help, and they circle around the base of the station, and rescue him. Luke gets a new robot hand.

Nothing happens?!

sebster wrote:Star Wars really was an exceptional story. The reason it doesn't feel so amazing now is because it's been copied over and over again.

The impact has also been lost. I mean, these days even people who have never seen the original trilogy know the plot. "I am your father" was a bomb that could only be felt once.

LordofHats wrote:

sebster wrote:Star Wars really was an exceptional story. The reason it doesn't feel so amazing now is because it's been copied over and over again.

The impact has also been lost. I mean, these days even people who have never seen the original trilogy know the plot. "I am your father" was a bomb that could only be felt once.

Indeed, thats a 'you had to be there moment.'

Havn't seen a lucas film I didn't enjoy. Maybe I'm sheltered, maybe I'm a bad critic. Good Bye you movie dude.

Albatross wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:Never been a fan of Starwars, and really not a fan of Lucas as a person, director, and certainly not as a writer.

I tend to agree. I feel that the Star Wars films in particular are incredibly overrated by certain folks. Special mention must go to the acting, which is uniformly dreadful in all three of the originals.

No, I disagree with that. It's not uniform at all, IMO. Ford and Fisher are pretty good in TESK. Hamill's actually not terrible in it either, which is saying something. Then in ROTJ, Ford and Fisher lose any spark they previously had, which goes to show you that good actors can't overcome a poor script.


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sebster wrote:

Fafnir wrote:Even then, I wouldn't say they were brilliant. Starwars was a real marvel of technology at the time, and had a solid plot and some iconic characters, but hardly anything original or thought provoking.

Star Wars really was an exceptional story. The reason it doesn't feel so amazing now is because it's been copied over and over again.

Lucas copied about 30 plot points from Dune.

I doubt George Lucas ever read Dune.

Just like he'd never seen the Tuskeegee Airmen

gorgon wrote:

Lucas copied about 30 plot points from Dune.

I thought it was supposed to be Flash Gordon?

Lucas had a lot of influences, most of them ancient literature actually. Dune has f all to do with star wars, nothing like it really, unless spaceships and special powers are your only qualification.

Ancient Literature? Maybe a smattering of Joseph Campbell, but a lot more old movies and pulps. Check out Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress" while you're at it, if you want to meet Leia's predecessor, as well as R2 and 3PO's.

He's retiring and it's all my fault?

Surely I can't take all the credit here.

Mannahnin wrote:Ancient Literature? Maybe a smattering of Joseph Campbell, but a lot more old movies and pulps. Check out Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress" while you're at it, if you want to meet Leia's predecessor, as well as R2 and 3PO's.

There is all kinds of inspiration from ancient literature in star wars, plus plenty of pulp fiction (the genre not the actual movie), a touch from westerns and yes Kurosawa......but no dune.

Avatar 720 wrote:He's retiring and it's all my fault?

Surely I can't take all the credit here.

Take your bows, mate. There's a time for humility and a time for pride.

Any one that likes the prequels watch this guys vid's, The startrek ones are good too, never realized how bad some of my favorite series are.

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/

sebster wrote:The heroes are hiding on the ice planet Hoth when the Empire discovers them and attacks, despite the efforts of our heroes they are overwhelmed and have to retreat. Our heroes split up at this point, with the Millennium Falcon chased by Empire forces through an asteroid field, and when they hide in an asteroid it turns out it’s actually a space monster, forcing another hasty escape, at which point they hide on a starship before craftily sneaking away, before fleeing to Cloud City to meet up with an old friend, Lando, who it turns out betrayed them to the Empire, and they are captured. They are held captive as a trap for Luke, with Han frozen solid in carbonite.

While that was all happening Meanwhile, Luke travelled to Hoth to meet a wise old Jedi master, who begins to train him, only for Luke to see a vision of his friend’s capture, and head off to save them.

It turns out Lando was only helping the Empire reluctantly, and frees Leia and Chewie, and they all head off to try and save Han. Luke arrives, but is directed away from his friends and into a conflict with Darth Vader, and in their duel he first cuts off Luke's hand, then tells him he is his father. Luke refuses to believe this. The others are unsuccessful in rescuing Han, and flee the station. Luke flees his father, falling through the station. Leaving Cloud City, Leia feels look is in need of help, and they circle around the base of the station, and rescue him. Luke gets a new robot hand.

Nothing happens?!

I must agree with everything, except he went to Dagobah to meet Yoda.

Edited because i'm an ape.....

LordofHats wrote:The impact has also been lost. I mean, these days even people who have never seen the original trilogy know the plot. "I am your father" was a bomb that could only be felt once.

True, the story is old and well known now. But it isn’t just Star Wars and it’s story that was a brand new thing, it was the idea that with a simple, appealing story idea and good production values you could rake in a huge box office. Previously the big money movies had been far more weighty films like 2001, while lighter genre fair was mostly just low budget, minor stuff. While Star Wars itself was not a big budget movie, it showed how much money films like that could make, and it led to studios rebuilding their approach to filmmaking entirely.

Think about all the great big nerd movies we’ve all loved over the last 30 years, from Indiana Jones to Spiderman and Lord of the Rings… none of that would exist if Star Wars hadn’t shown the market that was out there.

gorgon wrote:No, I disagree with that. It's not uniform at all, IMO. Ford and Fisher are pretty good in TESK. Hamill's actually not terrible in it either, which is saying something. Then in ROTJ, Ford and Fisher lose any spark they previously had, which goes to show you that good actors can't overcome a poor script.

Hamill was pretty good in the original film, and pretty passive through ESB and downright boring in RotJ (I think it has something to do with how hard it is to play a Jedi, Liam Neeson was fairly dull as well, and Ewan MacGregor only got interesting when he started copying Alec Guinness more closely… I guess all that just shows to go how marvellous Alec Guinness was as an actor).

Lucas copied about 30 plot points from Dune.

You don’t measure a story by how original its plot beats are. You measure it by how it works on screen. I mean, look at the actual film Dune, it’s a campy mess with a story that’s both unintelligible unless you’ve read the book, and completely inconsistent with the book all at the same time.

Star Wars copied a bunch of stuff from all over, especially from Kurosawa films (who in turn was heavily influenced by John Ford and Frank Capra), but none of that really means anything. Kurosawa is great because he took ideas from other places and make them work in his stories. Lucas is great because in Star Wars he did the same thing.

The reason that the acting degraded over the three original films is because the actors were realising just how royally screwed they had been by Lucas's contracts.

Oh no, whatever will we do without him crapping on his own doorstep.

The only thing he could do to vindicate himself is release the original theatrical release on DVD or blu-ray. Which won't happen.

Deathshead420 wrote:Any one that likes the prequels watch this guys vid's, The startrek ones are good too, never realized how bad some of my favorite series are.

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/

Dude that guy ripped it a new one. I laughed my ass off.

LordofHats wrote:I doubt George Lucas ever read Dune.

Lucas has openly acknowledged it as an inspiration. The parallels have been talked about for years and years. Here's a list of just some of the similarities.

http://moongadget.com/origins/dune.html

It's not the same story, but [insert Yoda voice] borrow heavily he did.

Mannahnin wrote:Ancient Literature? Maybe a smattering of Joseph Campbell, but a lot more old movies and pulps. Check out Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress" while you're at it, if you want to meet Leia's predecessor, as well as R2 and 3PO's.

Yeah, Lucas borrowed from all over. And y'know, that's okay...is anything truly original?

The issue for me is how as Lucas' ego has grown, it seems like he's been more and more willing to embrace high-falutin' notions like that he "tapped into ancient myths," rather than just borrowing from other filmmakers and authors.

Andrew1975 wrote:There is all kinds of inspiration from ancient literature in star wars, plus plenty of pulp fiction (the genre not the actual movie), a touch from westerns and yes Kurosawa......but no dune.

Desert planet, spice mines... Lots of WWII references in Star Wars too.

LordofHats wrote:

sebster wrote:Star Wars really was an exceptional story. The reason it doesn't feel so amazing now is because it's been copied over and over again.

The impact has also been lost. I mean, these days even people who have never seen the original trilogy know the plot. "I am your father" was a bomb that could only be felt once.

Which is why I have carefully shielded my daughter from all Star Wars until she is old enough to appreciate the feeling of that bomb!

Edit: The long version of the Dune movie (which is not available anymore that I am aware of) was awesome! I would pay good money for it.