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Boggy79 wrote:Marines are a certainty and as much as people would like otherwise, they will be in the box.

A sensible opponent would be Tau. They are in need of an update, they haven't appeared in a starter box before and would be good to draw in a younger audience because of the OMG KOOL ROBOTZ!!! factor.

Tau players for the most part give up the Close Combat Phase, a sensible one would be Eldar because be drawn it because of "Oh my god it's Legolas in Space!."

rockerbikie wrote:

Boggy79 wrote:Marines are a certainty and as much as people would like otherwise, they will be in the box.

A sensible opponent would be Tau. They are in need of an update, they haven't appeared in a starter box before and would be good to draw in a younger audience because of the OMG KOOL ROBOTZ!!! factor.

Tau players for the most part give up the Close Combat Phase, a sensible one would be Eldar because be drawn it because of "Oh my god it's Legolas in Space!."

What's this Close Combat Phase you speak of? My Tau have never heard of it....

GW's entire product line falls apart without the Adeptus Aestartes. they HAVE to put marines in it, its what sells their products. literally the Space Marines are part of their corporate advertising structure. its the most basic fundamental reason 40K exists. everything exists to be an "enemy" of the Imperium. Oh sure, the storylines are pretty well developed, but they exist because the space marines needed bad guys.

dudes in big armor and helmets with guns and tanks sell things.

When we sold starter kits, the FIRST question was, are the space marines in it. no one cared about who they were fighting. in fact am pretty sure the starter boxes sold the same whether it was bugs or orks lately.

now it'd be bad ass if they just offered to let you CHOOSE your opponent. like a 3 box setup. rules and needed items, choose your 2 opponents. just have the value be the same.

This would never fly because they can push products the way it is now, but its a good concept.

It will never happen but I'd like any combination with 2 out of these 3: Tau, DE, CSM

Boggy79 wrote:Marines are a certainty and as much as people would like otherwise, they will be in the box.

A sensible opponent would be Tau. They are in need of an update, they haven't appeared in a starter box before and would be good to draw in a younger audience because of the OMG KOOL ROBOTZ!!! factor.

I don't think Tau will draw in a younger audience as well as Space Marines. Nothing fulfills my to-this-day adolescent power fantasies like Space Marines do.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:
More likely that it would be the two least played armies in an attempt to increase sales.

But then nobody will buy it, especially if they're really niche. Put in one army that lots of people play and one that not so many people play, and you've got a good balance.

I think a starter set shouldn't be like black reach, it should have a rules book templaets 3-4 dice, paints/paint guide, tips and art booklet, and recommendation for battleforce along with cutting tools and (if then possible) one of them workstation.
This would not force people into an army choice while giving a good idea while also providing them with the tools to start, and not forcing them to either sell the original set or be stuck with theamry from the set.



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Games worksohp could still ask a nice price and make a profit.

I don't think a starter set that just comes with some basic paints and hobby supplies and recommendations of what to buy would do very well.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't think a starter set that just comes with some basic paints and hobby supplies and recommendations of what to buy would do very well.

Point taken, but seeing AoBR forced on random kids has discouraged several local kids from the hobby and i think that is such a waste, if the set focused more on tutoring on the game and painting and than assisting in making a good faction choice is a better option than: here's two armies accessories and rules go manage, at least in this hobby.

How about a few different sets.
Let them all have the Loyal vs Chaos. You get to pick which pairing you want, but let there be only like 3 or 4 pairings.

I think Tau vs Sisters would be great, and has no actual chance of happening ever.

I think DE and IG have a good chance at making a worthwhile scenario. DE show up on backwater planet to rape and pillage and capture slaves while IG are local PDF scrambled to stop them.

Juniperius wrote:I think a starter set shouldn't be like black reach, it should have a rules book templaets 3-4 dice, paints/paint guide, tips and art booklet, and recommendation for battleforce along with cutting tools and (if then possible) one of them workstation.
This would not force people into an army choice while giving a good idea while also providing them with the tools to start, and not forcing them to either sell the original set or be stuck with theamry from the set.



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Games worksohp could still ask a nice price and make a profit.

so it DOES have a rulebook, just a slimmed down version without all the fluff.

it comes with dice and templates (or at least did when I sold them)

It comes with a small scenario and quickstart guide.

what it does NOT do, is force an army. it simply provides 2 generic armies to test the game with. you can EASILY proxy the starter units to be any type you want. WYSIWYG is not always required.

as for the modeling part, well, tool.s are tools. nothing says you HAVE to buy GW tools. I actually appreciate they DON'T shove the hobby part down peoples throats. let them buy their own equipment and decide whats best for them.

its simply a starter box for the GAME, not the hobby as a whole.

back when it was $75 it was a steal. even a a hundred its not a bad deal considering the rulebook went up to $65.

There was another version of the last Fantasy starter that came with a paint set. GW also sells a basic paint set with 5 Marines and colors to paint them as Ultramarines. There's already healthy options for people to get into the game beyond the starter box.

Orks vs IG would be cool! Though Im sure there will be marines of some varity.

Brother SRM wrote:There was another version of the last Fantasy starter that came with a paint set. GW also sells a basic paint set with 5 Marines and colors to paint them as Ultramarines. There's already healthy options for people to get into the game beyond the starter box.

we used to sell starter bundles at the store. we'd basically gather up everything you needed, and wrap them all up together.

problem was when you saw the price tag people would freak out. so you have to spin it properly. (at the time $75 for the starter kit, $25 for the beginner paint set, $25 for the tool set, $5 glue, $4.50 primer etc etc, came out to be around $200 when its all said and done)

clearly, this isn't a game for people with little disposable income. obviously. and those in the know, can already get deals on tools and other things.

but new gamers? moms and dads? its a mall spot where they can buy everything instead of driving all over town.

The grey knight idea has one major flaw. Grey Knights have the one up on daemons.
I would love to have a Thousand Sons VS Space Wolves A very fluffy battle.

Nurgle wrote:The grey knight idea has one major flaw. Grey Knights have the one up on daemons.
I would love to have a Thousand Sons VS Space Wolves A very fluffy battle.

This would be cool but i'd prefer World Eaters v Blood Angels

Being realistic though I'd want Smurfs v Eldar (get a new book soon after and a reason to use my forgeworld avatar)

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:

Nurgle wrote:The grey knight idea has one major flaw. Grey Knights have the one up on daemons.
I would love to have a Thousand Sons VS Space Wolves A very fluffy battle.

This would be cool but i'd prefer World Eaters v Blood Angels

Being realistic though I'd want Smurfs v Eldar (get a new book soon after and a reason to use my forgeworld avatar)

Space Wolves and Thousand Sons (with daemon/cultist) support could be interesting. Fluffy, and pushes two popular armies.

World Eaters vs. Blood Angels would basically just be a game of football. Red choppy Marines vs. red choppy Marines doesn't sound like it would be very fun at all. Ultras vs. World Eaters could at least have the Chaos Gate factor, plus the fact that blue Marines vs. red Marines actually looks really cool. Ultras and Eldar would be cool too, but any chapter could work for that.

Either Black Templar or Dark Angels, since GW loves making chapter codexes and doing so means you can either make vanilla marines with the rules the box comes with or spend an additional $30 on the codex for the marines to run them with "flavor".
The opponent, Tyranids. It'll contain a model in this box that otherwise is vastly overpriced or sold individually that will come out in the 2nd wave of nids. Or just a model people wish they could buy, such as warriors with boneswords.
Either buying the box "for the marines" causes players to buy the codex in addition, or players who would normally only spend $40 on 3 warrirors, will spend 100 to get them with bone swords and a bunch of models they don't really need.
GW does not get "new" players with this set up, since GW seems to hate the idea of attracting more customers, Instead it causes it's current customers to spend more money than they would normally on a bunch of cheap plastic.
It also causes marine players to consider a tyranid army, since they'll have some now. Which really seems like the goal with the AOBR type set-ups.
It's not to get two people into the game, it's to trick one player into starting a second army.