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Psienesis wrote:The difference between a DK and a "washingmachinedread" is that the guy in the box has probably lost both arms, both legs, and a significant portion of his torso... and yet continued to live. The Dread sarcophagus is what keeps him alive, and keeps him slaying the foes of the Emperor century after century after century.

I am aware of the fluff, and I think it is pretty cool. It's the implementation that is lacking



Look at the thing. It cannot physcially walk because it cannot physically lift a leg (even assuming there is an invisible knee there somewhere) because it cannot physically bring its body's center of gravity far enough to either side so that it could, even for the briefest of moments, balance on one leg in order to move the other one forward in a step-like motion. It's simply inept miniature design, comparable for example with this highly functionable gun turret; worse even. Also, how is that DDCW going to hit anything? It cannot even reach beyond the bulk of its own sarcophagus. On a charge, the Dread's bulk would push away the very foe it was trying to hit.

Psienesis wrote:

It's not a vehicle you just "hop in" and turn the key... also, the DK offers way too many exposed parts of the pilot to be viable. Every limb, as in the Orky one up there, and the pilot's head is exposed... a well-trained and properly-equipped sniper could end the DK threat from a few miles away.

And yes, a Dreadknight would be vulnerable to snipers. Incidentally, snipers in 40K are rather good at talking it out as a high T MC even by the current 40K rules. Seems like another brilliant example of not only a glorious model (designed according to the fluff for larger-than-life swordfight, not sniper-warfare, or indeed, any "conventional" military warfare), but of excellent and highly fluff-congruent rule-design too.

Zweischneid wrote:The question was whether or not Grey Knight players who enjoy the Dreadknight would take offense to conversions on a fluff-basis.

Which was a silly question, if not flame-bait, in the first place. It's nobody's business what one does with their models.
And no matter what, the Dreadknight does look like a giant baby carrier. I found it great at first, but the instant I heard the word, it was ruined for me. What has been seen cannot be unseen.

Concerning the Dreadnought, the Dawn of War games present a surprisingly credible animated version.

Hyd wrote:

Concerning the Dreadnought, the Dawn of War games present a surprisingly credible animated version.

And randomly derailing threads with hate-trolling isn't flamebait? Oh, and we might have slighly different notions of "surprisingly credible" for animations of several tons of steel and armour war walker.. , not even accounting for the fact that Dawn of War features rather "flat" terrain with no credible rubble, steps, pitfalls or other obstacles. Hell, a felled tree across a street or a train-track could stop a Dread from moving on, even if it could move.




Even the contast with the Wraithlord is quite revealing. Nonewithstanding the many flaws with the Wraithlords anatomy (I guess, it being "Eldar Magic" works to an extend), it at least can make credible walking-movements. The Dread, if it is not "floating", can only walk by "tilting sideways" in an improbable manner that makes the whole upper sarcophagus appear weightless. Were it made of some sort of heavy metal, it's own momentum when it "jumps up" on one side to make a step would flip it over.

Zweischneid wrote:

Hyd wrote:

Concerning the Dreadnought, the Dawn of War games present a surprisingly credible animated version.

And randomly derailing threads with hate-trolling isn't flamebait? Oh, and we might have slighly different notions of "surprisingly credible" for animations of several tons of steel and armour war walker.. , not even accounting for the fact that Dawn of War features rather "flat" terrain with no credible rubble, steps, pitfalls or other obstacles. Hell, a felled tree across a street or a train-track could stop a Dread from moving on, even if it could move.




Even the contast with the Wraithlord is quite revealing. Nonewithstanding the many flaws with the Wraithlords anatomy (I guess, it being "Eldar Magic" works to an extend), it at least can make credible walking-movements. The Dread, if it is not "floating", can only walk by "tilting sideways" in an improbable manner that makes the whole upper sarcophagus appear weightless. Were it made of some sort of heavy metal, it's own momentum when it "jumps up" on one side to make a step would flip it over.

In the end it doesn't matter. Its not real life so...

I you get worked up about the physics of a fictional machine then you should not be here, you should be out complaning that, tyranids are stupidly designed, or that psychic powers are unrealistic. Its just a game. Learn to treat it as such.

We might also have diverging perceptions as to what amounts to "derailing threads with hate-trolling". I've seen none of that in this thread.

Continuing on that, I was more thinking about DoW2 actually, where it's appropriately ponderous and can only walk by small steps ; didn't recall anything shocking in the first, and still don't.

The thing is, your starting point is "it couldn't work, here's why". For all we know, it could have some sort of gyroscopic stabilizer that helps with the balancing. The "pelvis" looks like it could allow for the necessary movements, although clumsily and without grace.
In the end, it doesn't stretch my suspension of disbelief.

Hyd wrote:We might also have diverging perceptions as to what amounts to "derailing threads with hate-trolling". I've seen none of that in this thread.

Continuing on that, I was more thinking about DoW2 actually, where it's appropriately ponderous and can only walk by small steps ; didn't recall anything shocking in the first, and still don't.

The thing is, your starting point is "it couldn't work, here's why". For all we know, it could have some sort of gyroscopic stabilizer that helps with the balancing. The "pelvis" looks like it could allow for the necessary movements, although clumsily and without grace.
In the end, it doesn't stretch my suspension of disbelief.

Fine enough. Neither does the "open cockpit" of the Dreadknight stretch my suspension of disbelief. As a quick reminder, it wasn't me who started on realism. It was people feeling the need to hate the Dreadknight, in no small part on the "open cockpit" vs. "sniper" issue. For example TheRobotLol...

TheRobotLol wrote:

Oh yes, never thought of that. Just pop a few pullets into the exposed driver. Wow. Easy.

Before he backtracked again that is..

TheRobotLol wrote:

I you get worked up about the physics of a fictional machine then you should not be here, you should be out complaning that, tyranids are stupidly designed, or that psychic powers are unrealistic. Its just a game. Learn to treat it as such.

I am perfectly fine in disregarding the "suspension of disbelief" issue for fictional warmachines and return to the argument that I, personally, hold a more "humanoid-shaped" Warwalker to be aesthetically far superiour to the "box-shaped" ones of Dreadnought, while (as I did in previous a post) acknowledging that the ungainly Dreadnought-design was largely a legacy of the limited modelling techniques 25 years ago. And while others, like FW's Contemptor, have gone into similar directions, I, personally, see the Dreadknight as the best-made and coolest take on it yet and, personally, consider it to be by and large GWs coolest plastic kit released in the last 10 to 15 years or so.

Yar, the contemptor is good.

I'm so getting the chaos one.

Yeah, the "snipers eat it for breakfast" bit isn't that blatant to me either. The guy's still wearing a Terminator armour. Not exactly what I call "exposed in the open". Now without the helmet, different story, but that's nothing new with Spess Mehreens
I really want to agree it's awesome, I just need to do something with that harness.

Yes.

Dreadmonkey.

TheRobotLol wrote:



Yes.

Dreadmonkey.

Not enough poo. Quick, somebody run to the toilet with rubber gloves and help that model out!!

Also, the DK with Dreadnaught conversions was epic. Regular Dreadknight by itself looks uglier than a Razorgor trailing a tampon.

Psienesis wrote:The difference between a DK and a "washingmachinedread" is that the guy in the box has probably lost both arms, both legs, and a significant portion of his torso... and yet continued to live. The Dread sarcophagus is what keeps him alive, and keeps him slaying the foes of the Emperor century after century after century.

It's not a vehicle you just "hop in" and turn the key... also, the DK offers way too many exposed parts of the pilot to be viable. Every limb, as in the Orky one up there, and the pilot's head is exposed... a well-trained and properly-equipped sniper could end the DK threat from a few miles away.

Fluff armor protect hims sheesh.. Didn't you watch alien? As far as exposed shoot the driver comment what the heck kinda safety does most the ork or de rides give? Why not just shoot the crews of those vehicles? I mean they're hangin off the thing.

Kaldor wrote:I don't care about the Dreadknight conversions. But I hope everyone with a MLP conversion gets hit by a bus. Those guys suck.

Sir, If you weren't on the other side of the planet I would call for a duel. Seeing as you are, I'll just have to love and tolerate.

Back on topic, Apart from being annoying to build, I think the DK is an ok model (better than the Stormchicken), and some of the conversions are great. It also hints in the GK codex that the Dreadknight is not necessarily of Imperial origins. My bet is that they stole it from the Interex.

looks wise.... meh. im not impressed, but i dont think its terrible either.

as for the actual kit....its a fething #$%#%# !#@!#@##@!!! pieces dont align, the joints arent ball/socket and instead have tabs forcing it into a singular pose.. the legs are all one piece, the joints that connect the shoulders (those pipe things) are forced into one posistion to fit, the entire model feels like im building a model car that can only be one way, and not something i should be able to custom pose without cutting into it. normal 40k troops arent really posable either, but at least you have "some" choice in posistion of heads arms etc.

rules wise - meh.

OT - i think people convert it into other stuff because its a big plastic kit, that can act as a starting point for other largish models that dont come in plastic. plus remove the GK plating and script and you have a pretty generic armor walker thing. should GK players hate on those who convert? no.. why should they? its not like these people took their own personal model and wrecked it to make a objective marker or something..

liquidjoshi wrote:

Kaldor wrote:I don't care about the Dreadknight conversions. But I hope everyone with a MLP conversion gets hit by a bus. Those guys suck.

Sir, If you weren't on the other side of the planet I would call for a duel. Seeing as you are, I'll just have to love and tolerate.

Back on topic, Apart from being annoying to build, I think the DK is an ok model (better than the Stormchicken), and some of the conversions are great. It also hints in the GK codex that the Dreadknight is not necessarily of Imperial origins. My bet is that they stole it from the Interex.

I call you to a duel, my friend, MLP shall taste the cold steel of my chainsword! KHORNEEEEEEEEEAH

TheRobotLol wrote:

liquidjoshi wrote:

Kaldor wrote:I don't care about the Dreadknight conversions. But I hope everyone with a MLP conversion gets hit by a bus. Those guys suck.

Sir, If you weren't on the other side of the planet I would call for a duel. Seeing as you are, I'll just have to love and tolerate.

Back on topic, Apart from being annoying to build, I think the DK is an ok model (better than the Stormchicken), and some of the conversions are great. It also hints in the GK codex that the Dreadknight is not necessarily of Imperial origins. My bet is that they stole it from the Interex.

I call you to a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPPRT, my CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT, CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORTshall taste the cold CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT of my CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT! CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT

Were you saying something?

Try me, I'm in a Land Raider.

Dreadknight conversions don't annoy me, why would they? Just people buying then trying to use it in their vanilla Marine armies (Yes, I know people that have done this.)

liquidjoshi wrote:Try me, I'm in a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.

Dreadknight conversions don't annoy me, why would they? Just people buying then trying to use it in their vanilla Marine armies (Yes, I know people that have done this.)

Fixed that for you

purplefood wrote:

liquidjoshi wrote:Try me, I'm in a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.

Dreadknight conversions don't annoy me, why would they? Just people buying then trying to use it in their vanilla Marine armies (Yes, I know people that have done this.)

Fixed that for you

I approve

purplefood wrote:

liquidjoshi wrote:Try me, I'm in a Khorne ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.

Khorne conversions don't annoy Khorne, why would they? Just Khorne buying then trying to use it in their Khorne Marine armies (Yes, I know people that have done this.)

Khorned that for you

You are welcome

TheRobotLol wrote:

purplefood wrote:

liquidjoshi wrote:Try me, I'm in a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT .

CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT conversions don't annoy CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT, why would they? Just Khorne buying then trying to use it in their CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT Marine armies (Yes, I know people that have done this.)

CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT that for you

You are CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT

Lets leave it before a MOD gets involved...

Could have been worse.

It could have involved Boreale.

Back on topic, if anyone feels like converting a Boreale Dreadknight...

BOREALIS.

So, to answer the OP, (As this seems to be the second thread I've dragged OT with the aid of Robot tonight) no, most of us don't get offended by Dreadknight conversions. We're not techmarines, after all.

Zweischneid wrote:

Psienesis wrote:The difference between a DK and a "washingmachinedread" is that the guy in the box has probably lost both arms, both legs, and a significant portion of his torso... and yet continued to live. The Dread sarcophagus is what keeps him alive, and keeps him slaying the foes of the Emperor century after century after century.

I am aware of the fluff, and I think it is pretty cool. It's the implementation that is lacking



Look at the thing. It cannot physcially walk because it cannot physically lift a leg (even assuming there is an invisible knee there somewhere) because it cannot physically bring its body's center of gravity far enough to either side so that it could, even for the briefest of moments, balance on one leg in order to move the other one forward in a step-like motion. It's simply inept miniature design, comparable for example with this highly functionable gun turret; worse even. Also, how is that DDCW going to hit anything? It cannot even reach beyond the bulk of its own sarcophagus. On a charge, the Dread's bulk would push away the very foe it was trying to hit.

Psienesis wrote:

It's not a vehicle you just "hop in" and turn the key... also, the DK offers way too many exposed parts of the pilot to be viable. Every limb, as in the Orky one up there, and the pilot's head is exposed... a well-trained and properly-equipped sniper could end the DK threat from a few miles away.

And yes, a Dreadknight would be vulnerable to snipers. Incidentally, snipers in 40K are rather good at talking it out as a high T MC even by the current 40K rules. Seems like another brilliant example of not only a glorious model (designed according to the fluff for larger-than-life swordfight, not sniper-warfare, or indeed, any "conventional" military warfare), but of excellent and highly fluff-congruent rule-design too.

you realize that GW has kept the same basic dread layout/look for over 10 years right?

it used to be metal. the new ones are now in plastic obviously, with more bling and more options but the general idea and look of the dread has not changed.

it has stood the test of the time, dont you think if people didnt like the way dreads looked and they were selling badly that GW would have overhauled it like 8 years ago?

anyway, my point is you are in the minority. dreads look cool. if you like the baby carrier then to each his own i guess

SBG wrote:Personally, I think the model is awesome. Just a matter of taste.

I agree with you, I like look of the Dreadknight, a little silly, but pretty awesome at the same time.

Zweischneid wrote:

Hyd wrote:

Concerning the Dreadnought, the Dawn of War games present a surprisingly credible animated version.

And randomly derailing threads with hate-trolling isn't flamebait? Oh, and we might have slighly different notions of "surprisingly credible" for animations of several tons of steel and armour war walker.. , not even accounting for the fact that Dawn of War features rather "flat" terrain with no credible rubble, steps, pitfalls or other obstacles. Hell, a felled tree across a street or a train-track could stop a Dread from moving on, even if it could move.


Even the contast with the Wraithlord is quite revealing. Nonewithstanding the many flaws with the Wraithlords anatomy (I guess, it being "Eldar Magic" works to an extend), it at least can make credible walking-movements. The Dread, if it is not "floating", can only walk by "tilting sideways" in an improbable manner that makes the whole upper sarcophagus appear weightless. Were it made of some sort of heavy metal, it's own momentum when it "jumps up" on one side to make a step would flip it over.

Your post is an absolute troll-sandwich.

I do want to note the ludicrously top-heavy design of the Dreadnought and the absolute silliness that is a Wraithlord.

And I contest the borderline trollish idea that Dawn of War does not have uneven terrain or movement obstacles. That's just patently false, and I could disprove it utterly given a few decent screenshots. Or you could just, you know, play the game, drop some artillery, and wander through the shell-craters.

Anyway, on that note

That looks really good!

From a modelling perspective, any solid attempt at conversion earns kudos from me - that's more than I can produce at this point.

From a flavour perspective, though, I would rather see an Ork conversion than a Chaos conversion. Grey Knights are supposed to be the exception, the incorruptible opposition to Chaos. Seeing a Chaos Dreadknight just seems a little off. Now, Orks looting one makes perfect sense, especially if there are GKs piloting them without bloody helmets on.

Personally I like the model - but only the helmeted pilot option. I'm not a fan of any unhelmeted Marines, period, so to have a bareheaded marine strapped to the belly of a giant walker seems a stupid idea. It's like lazy boss design in video games: put a big ol' glaring weak spot in the center.