Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Joey ranking the miner's strike alongside WWII = Mind blown.

Albatross wrote:Joey ranking the miner's strike alongside WWII = Mind blown.

Mate the more recent history is the more important it is!

That's why who won celebrity big brother is equally as important as world war two.

Joey wrote:Just because something is recent doesn't mean it's important. Some are, like suffrage and the evolution of democracy, others, like the empire, are not.

Why is the evolution of democracy important? In fact, how could democracy even be considered to have evolved?

It sounds to me like your concept of 'what is important and should be taught in schools' is dangerously tainted by a political bias there, straight from the bat. I see no more importance in the miners strikes then I would in the Poll Tax Riots.

It's times like these I think E.H. Carr must be rolling in his grave.

Back when I was at school there was a grounding in narrative British history.

This was quietly removed as 'irrelevant' or 'untrendy' by the previous administration. A narrative British history has only recently returned to the school curriculum, it was one of the first things the Cameron government did.

During the last decade 'history' was reduced to post 1945 with side topics on colonialism, slavery and the womens liberation movement. Its as if they wanted to make a point. The English Civil War and William the Conqueror were barely touched on the formal curriculum, so the American War of Independence gets even less part.

A generation has grown up almost utterly devoid of their heritage. You wont have to travel far to find a kid who hadn't heard of Wellington, Cromwell or Churchill.

Albatross wrote:Joey ranking the miner's strike alongside WWII = Mind blown.

If you think that's what I said then your reading comprehension is piss-poor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ketara wrote:

Joey wrote:Just because something is recent doesn't mean it's important. Some are, like suffrage and the evolution of democracy, others, like the empire, are not.

Why is the evolution of democracy important? In fact, how could democracy even be considered to have evolved?

The average citizen knows very little about the way that democracy works, this is a bad thing and should be rectified.
I'd rather people knew what the cabinet actually do, than know that a quarter of the world used to be pink.

Joey wrote:I'd rather people knew what the cabinet actually do, than know that a quarter of the world used to be pink.

You're against people sympathetic to communism now?

Joey wrote:
The average citizen knows very little about the way that democracy works, this is a bad thing and should be rectified.
I'd rather people knew what the cabinet actually do, than know that a quarter of the world used to be pink.

It's much easier to teach school kids the latter rather than the former.

corpsesarefun wrote:

Joey wrote:
The average citizen knows very little about the way that democracy works, this is a bad thing and should be rectified.
I'd rather people knew what the cabinet actually do, than know that a quarter of the world used to be pink.

It's much easier to teach school kids the latter rather than the former.

It's about time children got taught complicated issues rather than just churning out essays.

Joey wrote:It's about time children got taught complicated issues rather than just churning out essays.

Didn't you fail all your exams?

SilverMK2 wrote:

Joey wrote:It's about time children got taught complicated issues rather than just churning out essays.

Didn't you fail all your exams?

According to himself he did.

Joey wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:

Joey wrote:
The average citizen knows very little about the way that democracy works, this is a bad thing and should be rectified.
I'd rather people knew what the cabinet actually do, than know that a quarter of the world used to be pink.

It's much easier to teach school kids the latter rather than the former.

It's about time children got taught complicated issues rather than just churning out essays.

And while we're at it lets teach quantum mechanics and differential equations at primary schools, we waste our time teaching kids "multiplication" lets just skip to the good bit!

corpsesarefun wrote:

Joey wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:

Joey wrote:
The average citizen knows very little about the way that democracy works, this is a bad thing and should be rectified.
I'd rather people knew what the cabinet actually do, than know that a quarter of the world used to be pink.

It's much easier to teach school kids the latter rather than the former.

It's about time children got taught complicated issues rather than just churning out essays.

And while we're at it lets teach quantum mechanics and differential equations at primary schools, we waste our time teaching kids "multiplication" lets just skip to the good bit!

Quantum mechanics isn't exactly on the same level as the fundamentals of British democracy.
It'd mean MPs didn't have to stop doing their actual jobs in order to attend parliamentory sessions that they know will be on tv, for one.
Orrr MPs blaming the judiciary for things when they shouldn't be.
Or every single Europe-related headline.
These are contempory issues in which a public awareness of the mechanism of democracy is nessesary to understand.
I think schoolchildren in India, Pakistan, Palestine, et al, would be better off knowing about the history of the British Empire than schoolchildren in Britain.

Explaining democracy to the plebs is what Civics classes are for, not history...

Orlanth wrote:Back when I was at school there was a grounding in narrative British history.

This was quietly removed as 'irrelevant' or 'untrendy' by the previous administration. A narrative British history has only recently returned to the school curriculum, it was one of the first things the Cameron government did.

Academically, it is irrelevant. Its only relevant in terms of national identity.

LordofHats wrote:Explaining democracy to the plebs is what Civics classes are for, not history...

There is very little difference.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

corpsesarefun wrote:

Joey wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:

Joey wrote:
The average citizen knows very little about the way that democracy works, this is a bad thing and should be rectified.
I'd rather people knew what the cabinet actually do, than know that a quarter of the world used to be pink.

It's much easier to teach school kids the latter rather than the former.

It's about time children got taught complicated issues rather than just churning out essays.

And while we're at it lets teach quantum mechanics and differential equations at primary schools, we waste our time teaching kids "multiplication" lets just skip to the good bit!

Basically.

Politics are complicated, ridiculously so. You don't want to teach children about them. Teaching children about politics creates people like me.

There wasn't really any difference when I was in school but I thought that was stupid. Civics classes should teach government, history should teach history. There's going to be overlap but they shouldn't be interchangeable.

LordofHats wrote:There wasn't really any difference when I was in school but I thought that was stupid. Civics classes should teach government, history should teach history. There's going to be overlap but they shouldn't be interchangeable.

The closest we had to civic classes were citizenship classes where everyone dossed around and wrote about a paragraph or so in an hour.
Anything that's not a "hard subject" is given a lower priority by schools, and is not the history of democracy the history of the West? What would we be without the Greek polis, the Roman Empire, the Magna Carta, universal suffrage?

LordofHats wrote:There wasn't really any difference when I was in school but I thought that was stupid. Civics classes should teach government, history should teach history. There's going to be overlap but they shouldn't be interchangeable.

In a practical sense, civics teach what your government does, and why it does it. Until you get into theory, there isn't much difference between poli sci, and history.

Joey wrote:

Albatross wrote:Joey ranking the miner's strike alongside WWII = Mind blown.

If you think that's what I said then your reading comprehension is piss-poor.

I think we've already established your writing deficiencies, so I'm inclined to believe it's your fault for failing to express yourself properly. Perhaps you should, in future, steer cleer of absurd absolutist statements, and focus on crafting more subtle arguments.

Why did you edit that part out of your post, incidentally? It appears to have disappeared...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No wait, here it is:

Joey wrote:Rawke's drift may well be a bombastic peice of British history but it's not in the same league as the miner's strike or the second world war.

And it's 'Rorke's Drift', incidentally.

Albatross wrote:

Joey wrote:Rawke's drift may well be a bombastic peice of British history but it's not in the same league as the miner's strike or the second world war.

And it's 'Rorke's Drift', incidentally.

He's right, 'Rorke's Drift isn't in the same league as miner's strike or the Second World War. Nor is the miner's strike in the same league as the Second World War. There is considerably more to British colonialism than one minor skirmish at the arse end of a minor colony.

Orlanth wrote:This was quietly removed as 'irrelevant' or 'untrendy' by the previous administration. A narrative British history has only recently returned to the school curriculum, it was one of the first things the Cameron government did.

This policy actually began in the 1980s. Tory policy has clearly adapted for the better here.

Joey wrote:

Albatross wrote:Joey ranking the miner's strike alongside WWII = Mind blown.

If you think that's what I said then your reading comprehension is piss-poor.

It's exactly what you said. It might not have been what you meant, but it was definitely what you said.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Joey wrote:I'd rather people knew what the cabinet actually do, than know that a quarter of the world used to be pink.

You're against people sympathetic to communism now?

Nonono. Pink was queen Victoria's favourite colour so she had the land surface of the empire painted pink.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

corpsesarefun wrote:

Joey wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:

Joey wrote:
The average citizen knows very little about the way that democracy works, this is a bad thing and should be rectified.
I'd rather people knew what the cabinet actually do, than know that a quarter of the world used to be pink.

It's much easier to teach school kids the latter rather than the former.

It's about time children got taught complicated issues rather than just churning out essays.

And while we're at it lets teach quantum mechanics and differential equations at primary schools, we waste our time teaching kids "multiplication" lets just skip to the good bit!

I used to have lessons in engineering, reletavistic physics and a number of other university level subjects. It was called "the only things on are OU lectures; a static picture of a girl and a blackboard; and some static, because there are only 3 channels and it is 6am you hyperactive child you".

I can remember explaining how space time was curved by black holes to a rather startled primary school teacher.

Albatross wrote:Joey ranking the miner's strike alongside WWII = Mind blown.

Alby whats the Miner's Strike?

There were these miners and Mrs Thatcher didn't like thier unions. The Mines were nationalised and Mrs thatcher wanted to privatise the industry so she fethed the miners over and started a minor civil war with them.

It was a big deal over here at the time and would of lost her the next election if Argentina hadn't invaded the Falklands and got handed it's posterior on a platter.

I wasn't puting it on the same level as the second world war I was simply saying that it was important to contemporary Britain in a way that "The Empire" is not.
I grew up in an ex-coal minding village(though the pits were gone by the 80s) surrounded by dead industry so it's kind of relevant.

Frazzled wrote:

Albatross wrote:Joey ranking the miner's strike alongside WWII = Mind blown.

Alby whats the Miner's Strike?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_miners'_strike_(1984%E2%80%931985)

There you go. As you can see, it's a divisive issue. I can't help but think think that certain people would like to teach this incident from a very specific perspective...

There is no point claiming that one aspect of history is "more important" than another, because just about everything in 'history' changes in importance depending on the subject at hand. Besides which "importance" is incredibly broad and subjective as a term.

Can we get back to the important point that TEA was thrown into the sea?

Pfft most British people prefer coffee anyway.

Joey wrote:Pfft most British people prefer coffee anyway.

I would probably have to disagree with you here, most of the people I know prefer tea, and the amount of tea that gets drunk in our office would probably kill most normal people