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SoloFalcon1138 wrote:To the OP, where in your original post do you show any evidence of your subject? There is no news or even close to a rumor in this, just two resignations and a bit of a whine.

Evidence, please...

Easy Solo. Read his post again:

mikhaila wrote:But did get official word that they cancelled it, so at least they gave us that bit of info.

If Mike says he did, then you can bet that he did.


Mike, did you get this from at GW rep?

MrMoustaffa wrote:

Grundz wrote:You can get brush on primer dude

Holy crap really? So how viable would that be to paint roughly 120 guardsmen and 3 tanks?

Very!

All these claims that 'Ard boys brings out the worst in the hobby are just ludicrous.

Every single Warmachine/Hordes event is essentially 'ard boys (minus the silly missions) and they typically run very well.

Sure, there are examples of ridiculous things happening at various 'ard boys events. I'm willing to bet good money that most of those are as a result of a poor tournament organizer letting things getting out of hand (e.g. styrofoam balls as drop pods or guys flat out cheating). There is no reason anything should get out of hand in the douchey department if the TO is vigilant.

The only thing wrong with 'Ard Boys was the ridiculous set of missions.

Target wrote:

Talonwinter wrote:This sucks cause this was one of the few tournaments that i had a chance of winning.
I gone to it for two years and never ran in to the WAAC people you all clamor about. I don’t have the money to pay out 50 + dollars to go to some of the bigger tourney or to have a army painted for I get top score in painting. On top of that my painting is average at best.
To lose to a painting score seam unfair, if I have the best win / lose record. Nit 9th place or less, as I have seen happen in some tournaments.

In almost all events I can think of, there is a general track (pure win/loss or battle points) and an overall track (a combination of battle + paint and sometimes sports). I'd say to lose best overall to a paint score is totally fair, it's not billed as an award purely based on winning, that's the generalship award.

Practice your painting, you'll be proud of the results you start to achieve, and trust me, average painting can still hit 80-90% on a tournament rubric if you paint to the rubric. Who knows, in a year or two you may look back at your lovely painted army and be happy that GW ended ard boyz (though I too enjoyed the free tournament).

My painting is decent after only 2 years of practice. I have found painting scores to be highly dependent on who is judging. The last tournament i got a 22 out of 40. my friend got a 21 with a bare bone three colors, no blending highlighting or shading. He was ticked off that i got so low of a score. I just don't see having to paying 50 to 100 dollars to have someone else tell me my stuff is not pro painted.

I have Pro painters in my Local store all the time. I even had the to get on them for raging on new painter like myself. These people count on there bought paint score to cover for their lack of playing ability. I have lost top 3 spots 2 times now over paint scores. Ard boys style game are fun and there are some jerks but for them most part here in the north west I have not ran in to many.

Talonwinter wrote:

Target wrote:

Talonwinter wrote:This sucks cause this was one of the few tournaments that i had a chance of winning.
I gone to it for two years and never ran in to the WAAC people you all clamor about. I don’t have the money to pay out 50 + dollars to go to some of the bigger tourney or to have a army painted for I get top score in painting. On top of that my painting is average at best.
To lose to a painting score seam unfair, if I have the best win / lose record. Nit 9th place or less, as I have seen happen in some tournaments.

In almost all events I can think of, there is a general track (pure win/loss or battle points) and an overall track (a combination of battle + paint and sometimes sports). I'd say to lose best overall to a paint score is totally fair, it's not billed as an award purely based on winning, that's the generalship award.

Practice your painting, you'll be proud of the results you start to achieve, and trust me, average painting can still hit 80-90% on a tournament rubric if you paint to the rubric. Who knows, in a year or two you may look back at your lovely painted army and be happy that GW ended ard boyz (though I too enjoyed the free tournament).

My painting is decent after only 2 years of practice. I have found painting scores to be highly dependent on who is judging. The last tournament i got a 22 out of 40. my friend got a 21 with a bare bone three colors, no blending highlighting or shading. He was ticked off that i got so low of a score. I just don't see having to paying 50 to 100 dollars to have someone else tell me my stuff is not pro painted.

I have Pro painters in my Local store all the time. I even had the to get on them for raging on new painter like myself. These people count on there bought paint score to cover for their lack of playing ability. I have lost top 3 spots 2 times now over paint scores. Ard boys style game are fun and there are some jerks but for them most part here in the north west I have not ran in to many.

Are the events you're talking about having attended just local tournaments at game stores, GT's, or ?

You pay the 50 - 100 dollars to play in an event which rents out a space for you to do so, staffs it, organizes it, etc. There is also (typically) an award track that doesn't involve painting what-so-ever. Your money isn't being paid to win an award, it's to participate in a hobby event. If you're attending a tournament or event which only has one award track which has a heavy painting component, and you don't like that, vote with your wallet and don't attend! There are lots of indy events popping up which involve both general and overall tracks.

Originally Posted by silashand
In GW games there seems to be a rift between those who want competition and those who want a laid back game [...]. IMO it is the latter group who has done more to harm the game than the tournament players because they seem to me to be the ones refusing to admit that there is any other way to play the game than theirs. While tournament players are generally happy to let people play however they want, it is the fluff side that seems to feel they need to tell others how they have to enjoy the game.

Oldie but goodie. Still true.

Im really suprised at all the dislike for Ard' Boyz. I dunno if it was really that unpopular or if it just has more vocal opponents than supporters.

I miss it as a opportunity to just play your meanest nastiest list against other people bringing the same. I'm a little shocked and skeptical of the coke-can styrofoam goings on, as WYSIWYG and "counts as" were pretty clearly defined in that everything must be at least 50% citadel miniatures.

It sounds like a lot of people were dealing with really bad TO's. At our store we only had one slow play accusation the whole day for 40k and none for Fantasy, which plays at 3000 points instead of 2500.

Im going to miss the circuit that fostered the idea of the best general winning the day completely. Not the 2nd track booby prize.

Also, I'm pro sports score, and pro seperate best painted award, but composition scores offend me. I buy an Army book to have all options available at my disposal.. not to have my opponent tell me post game what units/comboes he feels are acceptable for tournament play.

I always enjoyed throwing down with bigger armies for the simple fact that I can play with more of my models...The types of armies I liked playing did much better at higher points limits.

After all the years of 'ard boyz, I was like 1 or 2 points from getting first in the semi finals, I am glad I at least managed to pull in the first prize in the semis last year and place in the finals...I really hope they do something similar but better thought out.

mikhaila wrote:

For a longer rant on several subjects, find me at the bar at Adepticon.

Challenge accepted!

I was looking forward to meeting you at Adepticon anyway, but I love a good story too!

My issues are not so much with the idea of 'ard boyz (IE a 2500 point event with only battle scores) but the GW implementation of such an event (Or the lack there of and total disregard for taking it seriously)

I am ALL in favor of 2500 pt competitive events.

Glad Ed is gone, he was a HUGE douchebag. part of the reason GWUS seemed to always not give a crap.

Kirasu wrote:Yeah I agree, 'ard boyz basically killed 4 months of decent events that I could run. I might do an 'ard boyz style event tho this spring/summer to compensate

yes please do i loved this thing. only event where you could run a huge army (2500 points)

reds8n wrote:...

... I don't think so.

IIRC he was , for a while, spending time over there ( was it 3 weeks per month or something ?), but I think this ended a while back. Prior to the last set of (full) financial results anyway.

Mr Kirby came over to North America with his great 'one man store approach' fethed everything up then went home claiming success. So business as usual.

Don't understand all the WAAC bellyaching. I don't know any competitive players who put stock into Ard Boyz. Poorly run, bad missions, uncompetitive point level....

Yeah, who really cares. Go to good events instead I guess?

I loved ard boyz. I like playing a game where my opponent is trying his best to beat me and its a battle of wits. There were not as many fluffy baby seals in ard boyz so it was more of a fun tournament at least for me. I hate matching up against a fluff bunny at a tournament and curb stomping them even if I have a subpar list. Its no fun for either party involved. Ard boyz usually guaranteed a tough opponent and a good game.

Also I love high point games. Now I probably will never have 3k points of fantasy see the field. Except 3 rounds at adepticon .

In addition, ard boyz was a chance to play some of the best gamers from around the country. My first round opponent at Ard Boyz finals won his regional event. That is the best players from 2 regions facing off and it was just round one. I loved it. Sure there were drawbacks as people mentioned but people will always be practicing for the next tournament. As for a painted army I have 27 credit hours, the army, and a fiance(soon to be wife). I can understand if you dont have the time to paint your little soldiers and just want to have a nice competition with them on a weekend.

Now I have to find a local fantasy tournament that has enough players to do a big game. Otherwise I might have to retire my fantasy armies.

Tomb King wrote:I loved ard boyz. I like playing a game where my opponent is trying his best to beat me and its a battle of wits. There were not as many fluffy baby seals in ard boyz so it was more of a fun tournament at least for me. I hate matching up against a fluff bunny at a tournament and curb stomping them even if I have a subpar list. Its no fun for either party involved. Ard boyz usually guaranteed a tough opponent and a good game.

Shenanigans, there are way more fluffbunnies at 'ard boyz as it is so decentralized, free and local, that there are way more people who are woefully under equipped for a tourney setting and get thier skulls caved in way worse at 'ard boyz than compared to real tourneys which require travel. The quality of opponent is often worse and cheating is rampant due to many of the locations running 'ard boyz have people not qualified or willing to run a 40k tourney which is often exploited.

Also I love high point games. Now I probably will never have 3k points of fantasy see the field. Except 3 rounds at adepticon .

Sure they are fun... but they are often (in the case of 40k) grossly unbalanced and uncompetitive. If the playing field is unfair, the event becomes a joke

In addition, ard boyz was a chance to play some of the best gamers from around the country. My first round opponent at Ard Boyz finals won his regional event. That is the best players from 2 regions facing off and it was just round one. I loved it. Sure there were drawbacks as people mentioned but people will always be practicing for the next tournament. As for a painted army I have 27 credit hours, the army, and a fiance(soon to be wife). I can understand if you dont have the time to paint your little soldiers and just want to have a nice competition with them on a weekend.

I feel the indy events like the NOVA invitational and Aadpeticon are much more representative of truly good players due to the integrity and quality of the events. I see plain old cheats and bad players winning 'ard boy regional tickets simply because the store they played at had poor attendance or other issues.

I feel like we are not losing a dang thing and the hole left behind will be filled with a much better event which is much better run and actually a test of competitive skill as 'ard boyz was hardly that.

I doubt it was dropped for any reason of 'change in direction' and likely just dropped to cut costs.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Glad Ed is gone, he was a HUGE douchebag. part of the reason GWUS seemed to always not give a crap.

Wow. None of the store owners or indy TO's I know ever had a problem with Ed. He was also the only non-douche Regional VP at GW when I worked there and seemed to be the only one who knew how to actually run a business. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I never really liked the tournament series. From my personal experience, I've never been to any other tournaments with as many outright cheaters.( Referring to second rounds)

I won't be shedding any tears.

I was always sad that I did not get to know Ed better. His office was upstairs from mine, and we were in two different parts of the company. You can't question the man's work ethic, or his love of the hobby. I never got to play in any of his tournaments, but I heard the ones he ran were a blast.

The one tournament he did try and run unfortunately came during a holiday and a lot of the staff had plans. Instead of emailing me that it was cancelled, he walked down and brought my entry fee ( they were going to buy a Thor's Hammer or Iron Man helmet from Museum Replicas) to me personally and thanked me for signing up. How someone treats one's "lessers" says much about the person....

Grundz wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:

Grundz wrote:You can get brush on primer dude

Holy crap really? So how viable would that be to paint roughly 120 guardsmen and 3 tanks?

Very!

Love how a whole platoon and most of the HWT's on the bottom left are completely unpainted haha

How long does it take roughly to do, say a platoon of 20 guardsmen with paint on primer like that? I would think it would take a long time, but I don't know much about painting so I could be completely wrong. Looks really good though, that may very well be the solution to my problem

I really don't understand why people use brush on primer.With a little flow control, spray on primer is perfect. Even better if you have an airbrush.

Bursh on primer takes so long to get a good, even coat on multiple models.

-Loki- wrote:I really don't understand why people use brush on primer.With a little flow control, spray on primer is perfect. Even better if you have an airbrush.

Bursh on primer takes so long to get a good, even coat on multiple models.

People use it because they don't (or feel they don't) have a place to spray models, typically due to living in an apartment or flat without a well ventilated space they don't care for (basement, garage, etc.).

Honestly though, get a cardboard box, put your mini's in it, walk outside with your can of spray primer, spray, walk back inside. Done.

Brush on primer really isn't too slow to use, but it is infinitely slower than spray on.

Target wrote:Brush on primer really isn't too slow to use, but it is infinitely slower than spray on.

We had this thread over in P&M (and can go more into this there) but brush on is the way to go for me - I've had to strip my Hive Tyrant quite a few times because it's too humid or too cold outside when I spray.
If/when I get an airbrush I'll be able to do that inside (more than likely) but that isn't as sensitive to the temp/humidity anyway.

We're getting into the months where it's not that big a deal to spray, but aren't really there yet. It doesn't help that I can't spray until after 8pm usually (work, family, kid's bedtime...)

KGatch113 wrote:

I was always sad that I did not get to know Ed better. His office was upstairs from mine, and we were in two different parts of the company. You can't question the man's work ethic, or his love of the hobby. I never got to play in any of his tournaments, but I heard the ones he ran were a blast.

The one tournament he did try and run unfortunately came during a holiday and a lot of the staff had plans. Instead of emailing me that it was cancelled, he walked down and brought my entry fee ( they were going to buy a Thor's Hammer or Iron Man helmet from Museum Replicas) to me personally and thanked me for signing up. How someone treats one's "lessers" says much about the person....

I may be thinking of someone else then...apologies if I am.

Gotta love how one little comment by me about how I can't paint right now has completely derailed the thread into a discussion about brush on primer vs spray on

Haha sorry guys. Thanks for all the advice though, this really helps me get an idea for ways to paint my little army manz. Always amazed by how much advice you can get on these forums sometimes!

As for OT: maybe we'll see another tourney rise up to take 'Ard Boyz place? Surely GW wouldn't just leave it where there's no tournament period.

As long as something replaces 'Ard Boyz with free prize support at FLGS I'll be content. As is, this seems like nothing more than another price-cut at the cost of the players.

lucasbuffalo wrote:As long as something replaces 'Ard Boyz with free prize support at FLGS I'll be content. As is, this seems like nothing more than another price-cut at the cost of the players.

Just like GW created all those new events to replace the Games Days they got ri- oh wait.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:To the OP, where in your original post do you show any evidence of your subject? There is no news or even close to a rumor in this, just two resignations and a bit of a whine.

Evidence, please...

What do you want, a recording of the conversation with my GW sales rep?






Automatically Appended Next Post:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Glad Ed is gone, he was a HUGE douchebag. part of the reason GWUS seemed to always not give a crap.

Incredibly stupid post. Ed was one of the people who really did care.

Transcript is a bit far, but something possibly official, maybe something from Games Workshop? Just because a director of whatever resign doesn't mean a tournament has been eliminated.