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Mikhallia, Screen Shot or it didn't happen! J/k...

About the negative comments about Ed, I met him, he was nice and so I think you might have the wrong guy. Either way, if you are going to make any such accusation, some reason why would be nice.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Transcript is a bit far, but something possibly official, maybe something from Games Workshop? Just because a director of whatever resign doesn't mean a tournament has been eliminated.

Ed and Chris resigning probably has something to do with it, but ultimately the reason I posted the info is that my GW Sales Rep, from GW, called to let me know the 'Ardboyz tournaments are cancelled.

Next time GW tells me something, should I say, "Hmmm, no one really wants the info unless I have 'something official' to take a screenshot of and post a link to"

I run a regional, and one of the Finals for 'Ardboyz. I've hammered GW about the event every week. There's a reason they called me as soon as they made the decision.

mikhaila wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Transcript is a bit far, but something possibly official, maybe something from Games Workshop? Just because a director of whatever resign doesn't mean a tournament has been eliminated.

Ed and Chris resigning probably has something to do with it, but ultimately the reason I posted the info is that my GW Sales Rep, from GW, called to let me know the 'Ardboyz tournaments are cancelled.

Next time GW tells me something, should I say, "Hmmm, no one really wants the info unless I have 'something official' to take a screenshot of and post a link to"

I run a regional, and one of the Finals for 'Ardboyz. I've hammered GW about the event every week. There's a reason they called me as soon as they made the decision.

See, that's the kind of information that people need to differentiate a troll thread from one with actual information...
Thanks for the clarification, I'll make sure to check with my FLGSs.

mikhaila wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:To the OP, where in your original post do you show any evidence of your subject? There is no news or even close to a rumor in this, just two resignations and a bit of a whine.

Evidence, please...

What do you want, a recording of the conversation with my GW sales rep?

Haha...

Actually, I was thinking something along the lines of having a notary-public solicitor stamp the document? (or whatever the US equivalent is). Although that still leaves it open to Photoshop skulduggery

Or you could just check mikhaila's posts, and see that he's legit (store owner who, as he mentioned, has run the 'Ard Boyz finals recently) . It's also called News & Rumors for a reason... i.e., we get to find out stuff here before it's "official" at times (or at least, before GW's ready to send out a newsletter about it).

I'm not all that sad to see it go, though. Hopefully something better takes its' place! Such as even more indy tournies . It'd be nice to have more GW support for those if they're not supporting 'Ard Boyz, though.

RiTides wrote:Or you could just check mikhaila's posts, and see that he's legit (store owner who, as he mentioned, has run the 'Ard Boyz finals recently) . It's also called News & Rumors for a reason... i.e., we get to find out stuff here before it's "official" at times (or at least, before GW's ready to send out a newsletter about it).

Pretty much.

There's a very slim chance (as in, almost none) that Mikhaila's going to be making "troll posts".

I understand that people may be upset over the loss of a GW 'official' tournament, but no shooting the messenger, OK?

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Transcript is a bit far, but something possibly official, maybe something from Games Workshop? Just because a director of whatever resign doesn't mean a tournament has been eliminated.

Ed and Chris resigning probably has something to do with it, but ultimately the reason I posted the info is that my GW Sales Rep, from GW, called to let me know the 'Ardboyz tournaments are cancelled.

Next time GW tells me something, should I say, "Hmmm, no one really wants the info unless I have 'something official' to take a screenshot of and post a link to"

I run a regional, and one of the Finals for 'Ardboyz. I've hammered GW about the event every week. There's a reason they called me as soon as they made the decision.

See, that's the kind of information that people need to differentiate a troll thread from one with actual information...
Thanks for the clarification, I'll make sure to check with my FLGSs.

''

Trolling? Notice that I clearly state I own a store, my real name, my store's website, etc.

-Loki- wrote:I really don't understand why people use brush on primer.With a little flow control, spray on primer is perfect. Even better if you have an airbrush.

Off Topic: Because I live in Houston and I haven't been able to spray prime or spray matte finish anything in over 3 weeks because the humidity hasn't dropped below 60%. I can usually count on 1 day every 2 weeks to get priming/sealing done. It looks like I'm going to have to wait another week.

I prefer Spray primer 100 to 1 over brush on, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

Have you thought of some kind of Walt Disney-esque oxygen tent, or else sealed atmosphere (through use of airlocks) somewhere in your house?

Pity, as this was one of the few tournaments I actually enjoyed playing in.

Don't get me wrong, as I am always for painted armies (and think this should have been implemented in at some point), but the creep of "hobbyists," soft scores, and all the other BS has basically ruined regular tournament play for me. 'Ard Boyz represented a return to pure tournament play, where the only thing that mattered was how well you actually played the game (at least in theory). I also liked the higher points level.

Speaking strictly of the Fantasy side- I never participated because it wasn't at all my style. There were plenty of pleasant guys that played in it locally, but it also attracted every one of the small handful of players I've decided I would never willingly play again in my life.

Also, the missions were straight crazy. I'm looking forward to seeing the community develop an alternative event for those who want an outlet for that aspect of the game- more power to them, and I think they'll get something that matches what they're looking for much better than 'Ard Boyz ever did.

Eldanar wrote:Pity, as this was one of the few tournaments I actually enjoyed playing in.

Don't get me wrong, as I am always for painted armies (and think this should have been implemented in at some point), but the creep of "hobbyists," soft scores, and all the other BS has basically ruined regular tournament play for me. 'Ard Boyz represented a return to pure tournament play, where the only thing that mattered was how well you actually played the game (at least in theory). I also liked the higher points level.

Prepare to be eviscerated by some frothy mouthed individuals who just can't stand to see people enjoy the game in a different manner than them. They've already been rampaging through this thread holding the severed head of 'ard boyz up high on a pike.

Red_Zeke wrote:Speaking strictly of the Fantasy side- I never participated because it wasn't at all my style. There were plenty of pleasant guys that played in it locally, but it also attracted every one of the small handful of players I've decided I would never willingly play again in my life.

Also, the missions were straight crazy. I'm looking forward to seeing the community develop an alternative event for those who want an outlet for that aspect of the game- more power to them, and I think they'll get something that matches what they're looking for much better than 'Ard Boyz ever did.

I certainly hope the community does develop something, and it probably would be better. Every GW-run event I ever went to was a complete disaster in some way. Although the prize support was always very nice.

helium42 wrote:Prepare to be eviscerated by some frothy mouthed individuals who just can't stand to see people enjoy the game in a different manner than them. They've already been rampaging through this thread holding the severed head of 'ard boyz up high on a pike.

I'm not worried. And to be honest, there should be different types of events for people who are looking for different things. I'm certainly not saying all tournaments should be like 'Ard Boyz, but it was nice to see at least one major event that was.

Eldanar wrote:I'm not worried. And to be honest, there should be different types of events for people who are looking for different things. I'm certainly not saying all tournaments should be like 'Ard Boyz, but it was nice to see at least one major event that was.

I agree with you. That's why I can't understand the outright vitriol some have expressed for 'ard boyz. As if they were forced to play in a tournament with a format that they didn't like.

mikhaila wrote:For a longer rant on several subjects, find me at the bar at Adepticon.)

Accepted. Would enjoy meeting you and receiving said rant!


Personally, I won't miss it. Not my thing, but I have a lot of friends who were into it and there was obviously frustration in the way it was run. Maybe we'll get something better or *gasp*, we'll have to come up with our own gaming events. No reason a non-GW entity can't run it's own Aard Boyz style event... and probably run it better.

This makes me sad. It was a a great chance to play outsized point vaues, and semi's or finals was one of the few times we got out of town/state/country guys down here to mix up the regular crews. It gets old seeing the same old faces every tourney, where one can pretty much predict every game.

helium42 wrote:

Eldanar wrote:Pity, as this was one of the few tournaments I actually enjoyed playing in.

Don't get me wrong, as I am always for painted armies (and think this should have been implemented in at some point), but the creep of "hobbyists," soft scores, and all the other BS has basically ruined regular tournament play for me. 'Ard Boyz represented a return to pure tournament play, where the only thing that mattered was how well you actually played the game (at least in theory). I also liked the higher points level.

Prepare to be eviscerated by some frothy mouthed individuals who just can't stand to see people enjoy the game in a different manner than them. They've already been rampaging through this thread holding the severed head of 'ard boyz up high on a pike.

skronk wrote:This makes me sad. It was a a great chance to play outsized point vaues, and semi's or finals was one of the few times we got out of town/state/country guys down here to mix up the regular crews. It gets old seeing the same old faces every tourney, where one can pretty much predict every game.

A double QFT!

This is a bummer. I enjoyed Ardboys for the opportunity to play big games at 2500 40k or 3000 pts Fantasy and the chance to play different people from out of town. 40k Nova Style GTs are 2000 points now but still 500 points makes a big difference.

I regret that I was unable to attend 'Ard Boyz the last few years. Seemed like a nice change-of-pace event, even if the format had its issues.

Although in some ways I'm surprised it took GW this long to shut it down. Encouraging grey plastic hordes runs counter to all their marketing efforts. It's tough to imagine GW running an event without a painting requirement in the near future, given that they have all that fancy, expensive new paint to sell.

It had to be a huge boon financially though. Each year the Aard Boyz faithful buy 2500 pts of the "latest thing" in hopes of taking the tournament. As long as the models fly off the shelves... why should GW care if they end up painted or not? Or do you thing the financial burden of prize support and putting on the tournament was overwhelming sales??

mikhaila wrote: For a longer rant on several subjects, find me at the bar at Adepticon.)

Okay this has the beginings of a real first rate party with a number of peaople I really want to meet.

Darn it I cant even spell peaople right!

Gitsplitta wrote:It had to be a huge boon financially though. Each year the Aard Boyz faithful buy 2500 pts of the "latest thing" in hopes of taking the tournament. As long as the models fly off the shelves... why should GW care if they end up painted or not? Or do you thing the financial burden of prize support and putting on the tournament was overwhelming sales??

I'm sure they sold stuff, but their business model is about selling an entire hobby. They make a lot of money on paint, etc., so why would they run events discouraging painting? GW's spent umpteen years promoting the painting of miniatures. So they sponsor and endorse an event that could put the idea in little Billy's head that painting isn't necessary? That's a potential short-term gain, long-term loss situation.

Note that I'm not placing a value judgment on anything here. I'm only saying 'Ard Boyz never seemed to fit GW's modus operandi.

Good points gorgon. Guess I was assuming that their business model was changing away from fostering the hobby and more towards things that would make the increasingly expensive models fly of the shelves faster... Codex creep, Aard boyz, fine cast, etc. seemed to point in that direction.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Glad Ed is gone, he was a HUGE douchebag. part of the reason GWUS seemed to always not give a crap.

Really? In my few interactions with Ed, he was always great. It's sad to see him go.

Legions just got its confirmation this morning also that 'ard boyz is cancelled.. Along with Showcase we were the 2 stores that did semi-finals in PA

helium42 wrote:

Eldanar wrote:Pity, as this was one of the few tournaments I actually enjoyed playing in.

Don't get me wrong, as I am always for painted armies (and think this should have been implemented in at some point), but the creep of "hobbyists," soft scores, and all the other BS has basically ruined regular tournament play for me. 'Ard Boyz represented a return to pure tournament play, where the only thing that mattered was how well you actually played the game (at least in theory). I also liked the higher points level.

Prepare to be eviscerated by some frothy mouthed individuals who just can't stand to see people enjoy the game in a different manner than them. They've already been rampaging through this thread holding the severed head of 'ard boyz up high on a pike.

Well, when you post like that you almost guarantee that those people will come out of the woodwork with their pitchforks and torches. In other words, you can't fight fire with gasoline. It has been said that hardcore tournament players are truly the friendlier between the hobby vs. the competitive gamer, yet it sure seems to me like there are people on both sides who use any chance they can get to deride the opposite 'side' while claiming their 'side' is full of the nice friendly people.

There are legitimate reasons to dislike the 'ard boyz that have nothing to do with soft scores or unpainted models.

• It didn't have long enough round times for the points values utilized.
• The mission designs were wildly imbalanced.
• Yet it was often billed as being a 'hardcore' tournament, which is diametrically opposed to what those first two points allow for.


I have no problem with some tournaments allowing unpainted armies and/or using large point values. Just have longer round times to compensate and by god use some basic missions so as to help the game end more quickly.

And of course there is the big conceit that the 'ard boyz was somehow the bastion of tournaments that didn't use soft scores when more and more that is becoming the norm rather than the exception. So if you don't like soft scores, guess what? There are plenty of tournaments out there for you to play in...and surely everyone can get at least 3 colors of paint on their models, right?

Finally, where did the idea come from that the 'ard boyz represented a 'return' to pure tournament gaming? All of the original GW tournaments for years and years and years were all soft score based. It has only been recently, and having nothing to do with the 'ard boyz that tournaments have started using alternate scoring methods. So the 'ard boyz wasn't a return to *anything* IMHO, except terrible missions and a bunch of games ending on turn 3 and 4.

mikhaila wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Transcript is a bit far, but something possibly official, maybe something from Games Workshop? Just because a director of whatever resign doesn't mean a tournament has been eliminated.

Ed and Chris resigning probably has something to do with it, but ultimately the reason I posted the info is that my GW Sales Rep, from GW, called to let me know the 'Ardboyz tournaments are cancelled.

Next time GW tells me something, should I say, "Hmmm, no one really wants the info unless I have 'something official' to take a screenshot of and post a link to"

I run a regional, and one of the Finals for 'Ardboyz. I've hammered GW about the event every week. There's a reason they called me as soon as they made the decision.

See, that's the kind of information that people need to differentiate a troll thread from one with actual information...
Thanks for the clarification, I'll make sure to check with my FLGSs.

''

Trolling? Notice that I clearly state I own a store, my real name, my store's website, etc.

Completely transparent. Well done sir !

: )

Looks like I save over $110 on getting my Daemons ready, and who knows how much on my blood angels. Maybe $200?

yakface wrote:There are plenty of tournaments out there for you to play in...and surely everyone can get at least 3 colors of paint on their models, right?

Barring some form of physical disability, I'd say almost everyone is capable of repeating the actions of a four year old if they're also capable of posting on the internet to complain about it. While I was never a fan of 'ard boyz for multiple reasons, I'm sad to see any nationwide gaming tourney get dropped simply because I don't want the hobby to shrink even faster than it currently is. I fear that Scifi/Fantasy minis gaming in 20 years will probably resemble non-FOW historical gaming and railroad hobbies today. Having the biggest manufacturer drop their marque tourney doesn't help that slide.

yakface wrote:

helium42 wrote:

Eldanar wrote:Pity, as this was one of the few tournaments I actually enjoyed playing in.

Don't get me wrong, as I am always for painted armies (and think this should have been implemented in at some point), but the creep of "hobbyists," soft scores, and all the other BS has basically ruined regular tournament play for me. 'Ard Boyz represented a return to pure tournament play, where the only thing that mattered was how well you actually played the game (at least in theory). I also liked the higher points level.

Prepare to be eviscerated by some frothy mouthed individuals who just can't stand to see people enjoy the game in a different manner than them. They've already been rampaging through this thread holding the severed head of 'ard boyz up high on a pike.

Well, when you post like that you almost guarantee that those people will come out of the woodwork with their pitchforks and torches. In other words, you can't fight fire with gasoline. It has been said that hardcore tournament players are truly the friendlier between the hobby vs. the competitive gamer, yet it sure seems to me like there are people on both sides who use any chance they can get to deride the opposite 'side' while claiming their 'side' is full of the nice friendly people.

There are legitimate reasons to dislike the 'ard boyz that have nothing to do with soft scores or unpainted models.

• It didn't have long enough round times for the points values utilized.
• The mission designs were wildly imbalanced.
• Yet it was often billed as being a 'hardcore' tournament, which is diametrically opposed to what those first two points allow for.


I have no problem with some tournaments allowing unpainted armies and/or using large point values. Just have longer round times to compensate and by god use some basic missions so as to help the game end more quickly.

And of course there is the big conceit that the 'ard boyz was somehow the bastion of tournaments that didn't use soft scores when more and more that is becoming the norm rather than the exception. So if you don't like soft scores, guess what? There are plenty of tournaments out there for you to play in...and surely everyone can get at least 3 colors of paint on their models, right?

Finally, where did the idea come from that the 'ard boyz represented a 'return' to pure tournament gaming? All of the original GW tournaments for years and years and years were all soft score based. It has only been recently, and having nothing to do with the 'ard boyz that tournaments have started using alternate scoring methods. So the 'ard boyz wasn't a return to *anything* IMHO, except terrible missions and a bunch of games ending on turn 3 and 4.

I don't think I ever played fewer than 5 rounds in any 'Ard Boyz tournament.

I'll readily concede that there all kinds of issues with the missions, the play time, and the lack of paint (particularly in the qualifying round, but usually not in the semis). But it was also a breath of fresh air to not have to worry about soft scores, or the crap that surrounds them. And actually, there are not very many tournaments left that do not rely on soft scoring to one degree or another. Also, the problems, and the challenges they presented, were also part of what made this tournament so interesting.

Soft scores are fine in and by themselves. I agree with you, that most tournaments have had them in one form or another for years, but the shenanigans that surround them were never as pronounced or as obvious a problem as they appear to be now (I'll also concede that there appears to be a little push back to get this a little more under control, but it is still there). It is when they become retaliatory due to someone losing a game and getting their feelings hurt; or when there is a gentleman's agreement to artifically inflate/deflate scores, that they become a problem. They realistically only matter to people who typically finish high in battle points to begin with; but when they are tied to shenanigans, rather than being accurate reflections based on objective criteria, then they more or less make the final standings meaningless, particularly when only a few points seperate 1 from 10.