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bastion breachers aren't anywhere near realiable, though. They've still got to hit with their single BS3 shot, they've still got to roll high enough to penetrate the armor (which is far from guaranteed), and they still need to roll well enough on the vehicle damage chart (in which they can still just stun the vehicle, or rip a weapon off and have it drive away). And it has no way of ignoring cover. A single shot from a bastion breacher is way more likely to do nothing at all than to wreck what it shoots at.

Which is expecially bad given that it's mounted on a flimsy AV12/10 chassis, which means that it's not all that likely to survive for enough turns to put down the damage it needs to, and without IF, it means whatever you're shooting at can return fire next turn (and probably most of its friends).

A medusa isn't any more reliable of a vehicle killer than its points in Heavy Weapons Squads, which are, themselves, not all that terribly reliable.

Railguns.

XV88 is simply the best anti-tank unit in the entire game. Period.

melta? It takes a few turn to get into 6" range, turns in which my XV88 will have already killed whatever it is they're shooting at.

Another good one is the Caestus Assault Ram.

imrandomghgh wrote:melta? It takes a few turn to get into 6" range, turns in which my XV88 will have already killed whatever it is they're shooting at.

Ha Ha Ha It's called a pod.

Also, I love people who play armies like orks (assaulty based armies that move up fast), and they line their BW opposite my rhino and send their whole army forward.

24" between us, the BW move between 12-13" on the first turn, I believe I am in melta range. And I don't even care if it's within 6" if i can get a side shot on that AV12 open topped sucka.

Just a small example. Against guard that is a different story, since the guard are going to be sitting back with their vehicles, not roaring full speed ahead. People often undervalue units/weapons based on the range, but its relative to where you are on the board. In pitched battle, you're only 24" from the opponent- bolter range. A friend moved his power blob forward on the first turn and then did a massive because the opponent deployed his harlequinns directly opposite- on foot. 6" guard move+whatever they roll for his "move move move!" order, =~10-12". 6" harlies+d6 run+6"charge =12+d6". First turn charge without a transport. that's apparently not meant to happen!

side note- I am fully aware most "experienced" players know not to do the above ork/power blob example of movement.

An out stretched foot while your opponent is carrying his tank to the table.




What?



Oh and for fun a Tau suicide suit (Crisis Suit) with twin-linked fusion blasters (Meltaguns for you imperial types) and Targeting Array (BS 4). It's oen of the cheaper configuratiosn out there and if you have a Pathfinders and their devilfish with LOS on where you want to go, you can drop it within 6 inches of the tank successfully more often than not.

Yeah he's dead next turn, but your 47 point suit robably just burned a whole clean through a 250 point Land Raider.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Put several meltaguns in a transport + send them up close = dead tank.

Statistically, no longer-ranged weapon comes anywhere near melta weapons in tank killing ability.

Railguns are better than meltas outside of close range and are in some cases (AV10) better than meltas inside of close range.

Fetterkey wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:Put several meltaguns in a transport + send them up close = dead tank.

Statistically, no longer-ranged weapon comes anywhere near melta weapons in tank killing ability.

Railguns are better than meltas outside of close range and are in some cases (AV10) better than meltas inside of close range.

Yeah!

Autopen=better than a chance to glance.

Plus, turbo penetrator.

Either melta bikes in a Vulkan list, or Broadsides, and I have to go with broadsides since it isn't as dependent on you going first.

I might have to go with suicide deffkoptas here... TL rokkit launchers, buzzsaw, with scout? That's turn 1 a TL rokkit mostly whereever you want it with the option of a charging Powerklaw attack if the missle fails but, it's kind of a one trick pony

Chaos Termicide:

3 combi-meltas and one chain fist.
The ability to deep strike them in.
2+/5++ save means they don't just die without a lot of fire.

Well, it seems like the big winner here is Broadsides from the Tau codex. And I would probably have to agree - 3 multi-wound models with 2+ and drones for wound allocation, plus the TL-Railguns at Str 10 AP1 72" range. Best Str, best AP, ridiculous range, very, very hard to kill, and twin-linked. That sounds like a turn 1 vehicle down every single game to me.

Call me old school, But a dreadnought with the close combat arm and a lascannon. Seems to be the best thing i have found. Or a wraith lord. If you are with in 6 inches in the shooting phase. You might as well have something that is str 10 and can assault. Meltas are great and all, But you leave your unit to being assault by what ever was in the transport you just took out. If you are facing a rhino rush, You really only need the free missile launchers for space marines, Or auto cannons. Suicide squads seem like the right idea. But dropping in a squad to have it blow up one tank, you are giving up 2 kill points to do so.

Gotta go with tau's hammer head, or lascannons

apple1988218 wrote:vindicare，turbo-penertrator

What he said ^

Its got incredible range, and is nearly guaranteed to pen.

garanteed to pen, not garanteed to do anything.

as an ork player I can say a powerclaw or 3 usually does it on the first try unless it went more than 6 inches. deff rollas do a good job to

as an eldar player fire dragons

and with my rarely used marines dreds with lascannons do a pretty goos job

Another thing That i've tried that works, but is gimmicky and definitely not THE best option, is the EMP FW commando routine, almost guaranteed to pen and glance a few times.

I hate to admit it, but Meltas are pretty effective against all vehicles, barring the Chain Fist, but there's a few long ranged weapons that are alot safer than an Alpha strike:

Railguns. Terrific to use, terrifying to roll armor against, although, the army attatched to them isn't stellar by any means.

Vanquisher Cannons. I know that they're only BS3, however, that S8 +2d6 Armor Pen. can't be looked over...

IHateNids wrote:garanteed to pen, not garanteed to do anything.

True, but its ap1 iirc, so its gonna have a much larger chance of doing something. And unless your grey knights or necrons, any dmg result is gonna do something

KplKeegan wrote:
Railguns. Terrific to use, terrifying to roll armor against, although, the army attatched to them isn't stellar by any means.

Why do you think they are so good at opening tanks and transports? They know that if the enemy gets close they are done .

d-usa wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:
Railguns. Terrific to use, terrifying to roll armor against, although, the army attatched to them isn't stellar by any means.

Why do you think they are so good at opening tanks and transports? They know that if the enemy gets close they are done .

As a general rule, guns don't help very much in assault...for any army...

And they ARE great at opening tanks. 72" range, 75% chance to hit, Str 10, 4+ wrecked result...

Medusa with BB shells, Strength ten with melta, and AP 1.

Basically, pens a LR on a 4+ on 2D6, then a 4+ blows it up. At only 140 points a pop, its better than a vanquisher, AND you can move 6 a turn and fire.

Doctadeth wrote:Medusa with BB shells. Basically, pens a LR on a 4+ on 2D6, then a 4+ blows it up.

Exactly. Hits on 4+, pens on 4+, wrecks on 4+, and if they've popped smoke or have cover from other vehicles (or cover), it sticks on a 4+

1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/16

Or, you have to shoot at the raider roughly 16 times to get the desired result. Not only isn't that reliable to begin with, but it comes on a flimsy AV12 chassis that must be in LOS in order to shoot at anything. Just how reliable is that carrier?

I wouldn't take this vehicle for anti-tank killing power at half its price.

Lascannons arent that great except when against transports eg, armour 10/11/12.

I'll give a shout out to the Demolisher. Large Blast, S10 AP2, 24" plus combat speed, with the ability to fire the hull lascannon or a melta/plasma sponson with the turret while moving, AV14/13/11 hull.

Bright lances, Dark Lances or possibly Dante in a Sanguinary Guard unit with 2 Infernus Pistols.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:

IHateNids wrote:garanteed to pen, not garanteed to do anything.

True, but its ap1 iirc, so its gonna have a much larger chance of doing something. And unless your grey knights or necrons, any dmg result is gonna do something

Or you roll a shaken or stunned result on a Death Company Dreadnought...

This may be out there, but the best Vehicular Tank Destroyer comes in the form of the Imperial Guard Medusa with Bastion Breacher Shells.

Blast = hits better than BS3 shell
Str 10 = awesome
AP 1 = +1 on the damage chard.
2d6 Penetration = almost guaranteed penetration on a hit of even AV-14, and even on a near miss it can still pen with a roll of a 10 or higher.


EDIT: Oh, I see it has been mentioned.

And as always, the Medusa is still inferior to infantry meltas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ailaros wrote:

Doctadeth wrote:Medusa with BB shells. Basically, pens a LR on a 4+ on 2D6, then a 4+ blows it up.

Exactly. Hits on 4+, pens on 4+, wrecks on 4+, and if they've popped smoke or have cover from other vehicles (or cover), it sticks on a 4+

1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/16

Or, you have to shoot at the raider roughly 16 times to get the desired result. Not only isn't that reliable to begin with, but it comes on a flimsy AV12 chassis that must be in LOS in order to shoot at anything. Just how reliable is that carrier?

I wouldn't take this vehicle for anti-tank killing power at half its price.

First of all, it hits better than a 4+ thanks to blast, but I'll let it slip. Second of all, one of your fours is on 2d6, so it's more like

.5 x ~.7 x .5 x .5 = .0825, or ~33% better than your calculation allows for.

And don't forget a near miss even has a not-insignificant chance of inflicting harm, penetrating AV14 ~16% of the time.

are BB shells melta?

Yes, but it's still FAR from one shot one kill. If it's not reliable in shooting, and it's not on a carrier that's reliable, then it's just not reliable.

I mean, in a matchup between three upgraded medusas and two land raiders, I'd take the land raiders every time 3x BS3 melta on AV12 doesn't stand a chance against 4x BS4 TLLCs on 2 AV14's.

BBs are not melta, since they neither have that rule nor is the additional D6 they get for ARP reliant on being within half range. They get it regardless of the distance fired.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Bright lances, Dark Lances or possibly Dante in a Sanguinary Guard unit with 2 Infernus Pistols.

Bright Lances, really? I'd rather have a Lascannon in any situation except for AV14, and I'm going to use FD for that anyway.

Scouting dominions are pretty good.

I'd also say Necron CCB is pretty good at it's job.

The cover negation of the Hiveguard is a really swell trick, especially for the points, and the frame is pretty good, if it had better range and wasn't hurt by synapse.

Lastly squads of black templar knight brother terminators with back mounted missile launchers and tank hunters make for pretty good tank repellent.

I'm sure someone has already brought up the cost - benefit analysis aspect of this discussion. Is this about what will kill tanks in abstraction, or what does it's job very efficiently?

Vulkan hanging out with drop pod marines and dreads make for a pretty solid anti tank army.