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Ignatius wrote:

Psienesis wrote:TBH, other than some variant bug-types more suited to specific terrain types or similar combat functions, I think they've pretty much reached the pinnacle of their evolution. Adapting to use cybernetics or machines is just... not Niddy.

I'd have to agree with this statement.

Everything has an innate ability to overcome any odds. Adapt to survive. Tyranids are just the sci-fi prime example of this... Don't you think in the dozen galaxies they have stripped already, they have overcome odds which proved difficult for them in the past? I do, evolution comes in many forms. Considering they haven't taken much genetic data on Psycher's so far... Imagine what the entire Astropathic choir could do? Plus the Emperors genetic data, and that of the Adeptus custodes. They are by no means limited and/or at the peak of evolution, as they keep raising that bar.

You tyranids seem very sure that you will kill everything in your path, If they even get close to killing the emperor, the chaos gods could just cut the entire species in half, without lifting a finger.

The Chaos Gods feed on Misery and despair, they cant do that if an entire race is eliminated, therefore if any tyranids came close. They die!

As a point of interest, something I've posted in a related thread:

The Tyranids have laid waste to 12 galaxies already, this we know. Now if they took biomass relative to Modern day earth, that would be 4TtC (Trillion tons of Carbon). And if that is proportional to how many Tyranids were produced, you would have a lot of tyranids on your hands. Also what is to say the Milky Way is the only system the Tyranid race is currently engaged in fighting?

The threat won't be over, not by a long shot. Plus, chaos gods will be weakened by the lowering numbers of worshipers. as the power of the gods is directly proportionate to the power they gain from being deified.

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:

Ignatius wrote:

Psienesis wrote:TBH, other than some variant bug-types more suited to specific terrain types or similar combat functions, I think they've pretty much reached the pinnacle of their evolution. Adapting to use cybernetics or machines is just... not Niddy.

I'd have to agree with this statement.

Everything has an innate ability to overcome any odds. Adapt to survive. Tyranids are just the sci-fi prime example of this... Don't you think in the dozen galaxies they have stripped already, they have overcome odds which proved difficult for them in the past? I do, evolution comes in many forms. Considering they haven't taken much genetic data on Psycher's so far... Imagine what the entire Astropathic choir could do? Plus the Emperors genetic data, and that of the Adeptus custodes. They are by no means limited and/or at the peak of evolution, as they keep raising that bar.

If they have already killed 12 galaxies, then I would have to assume they have evolved unimaginably since the first tyranid walked the land. There is only so much that you can adapt to. I think they have encountered pretty much everything imaginable at this point. And therefore have evolved to pretty much everything.

TKG Painting wrote:You tyranids seem very sure that you will kill everything in your path, If they even get close to killing the emperor, the chaos gods could just cut the entire species in half, without lifting a finger.

The Chaos Gods feed on Misery and despair, they cant do that if an entire race is eliminated, therefore if any tyranids came close. They die!

I'm not just a Tyranid player, I'm also: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Iron Warriors, Necron and World Eaters.

IW happen to be my first love, BUT, I do think Tyranids will consume the Milky Way and nothing will stop them. they are an unstoppable swarm, a tide that will not be allowed to go hungry

HEY,HEY,HEY,HEY!I'm going to tell you something important now, so you better dig the wax out of those huge ears of yours, and listen! The reputation of The Imperium echoes far and wide... When they talk about its bad ass leader, the man of indomitable spirit and masculinity, they're talking about me! The Mighty Emperor!
Just who the hell do you think I am!

Oh yes I did just use a Gurren Lagann quote. You Think you're so big and bad 'cause you ate a couple galaxies, eh? Well I'll tell ya what: My drill will pierce through the heavens!

Sorry, I went overboard. The point that Mankind's got fighting spirit if not faith. The Emperor's dead, but he's*BLAM!* Man's gonna fight no matter what, and they're gonna win!

Dingdoodah wrote:Sorry, I went overboard. The point that Mankind's got fighting spirit if not faith. The Emperor's dead, but he's*BLAM!* Man's gonna fight no matter what, and they're gonna win!

YEAH! Let's go! I'm amped up! Wooo!!

Charizard.

Another possible evolution, thought it seems unlikely, would be more human like soldiers, or atleast some sort of primarch-esc commander that could communicate and demorilize the enemy, maybe even make em surrender.

Something to extend the synapses range of the commander nids should be pretty high on the hive minds evolution list too, since the humans have regognized this weakness and are expoliting it everytime they face the nids.

Dingdoodah wrote:HEY,HEY,HEY,HEY!I'm going to tell you something important now, so you better dig the wax out of those huge ears of yours, and listen! The reputation of The Imperium echoes far and wide... When they talk about its bad ass leader, the man of indomitable spirit and masculinity, they're talking about me! The Mighty Emperor!
Just who the hell do you think I am!

Oh yes I did just use a Gurren Lagann quote. You Think you're so big and bad 'cause you ate a couple galaxies, eh? Well I'll tell ya what: My drill will pierce through the heavens!

Sorry, I went overboard. The point that Mankind's got fighting spirit if not faith. The Emperor's dead, but he's*BLAM!* Man's gonna fight no matter what, and they're gonna win!

Kamina you ain't

Limbo wrote:Another possible evolution, thought it seems unlikely, would be more human like soldiers, or atleast some sort of primarch-esc commander that could communicate and demorilize the enemy, maybe even make em surrender.

Something to extend the synapses range of the commander nids should be pretty high on the hive minds evolution list too, since the humans have regognized this weakness and are expoliting it everytime they face the nids.

Tbh they have something similar already... The Genestealer Cult. When procreating each subsequent offspring derived from humans become more human, and each generation is only a matter of hours. but there is always some small detail that makes them stand out from other humans.

Yeah, I thought of that too, but I was thinking of something abit flashier, think Kerrigan from Starcraft. Seems pretty unlikely thought

Tbh, its not a bad idea... maybe make deathleaper into a Kerrigan-esque character... as deathleaper is pretty much her, but without looking like her.

Deathleaper + Doom of Malan'tai = Tyranid version of Kerrigan. Question is: Would the swarm benefit from such a creature? It hardly needs a commander since a single organism couldn't match the collective of the hive mind, and if it was to be a really potent synapse node it would just be a big glowing weak spot for everyone to target. Still, this creatures power, both physical and psychic would probably be a great asset to the Tyranids

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:Just as the title suggests, What do you think the next step in the Hive-minds game plan?



Consumption of a particular races DNA?

Invasion of Terra?

Destruction of all Forge-worlds?

Or something else?


Please note, this discussion is not about slating Cruddace, even if I would like to give him a slap... That goes elsewhere.

Happy camping

im not to sure of them the former and latter both seem like suicide missions for the nids. They seem contempt with the way they are going. Planet hopping isnt all that bad id guess unless they make a stationary hive like bees.

Mike101 wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:Just as the title suggests, What do you think the next step in the Hive-minds game plan?



Consumption of a particular races DNA?

Invasion of Terra?

Destruction of all Forge-worlds?

Or something else?


Please note, this discussion is not about slating Cruddace, even if I would like to give him a slap... That goes elsewhere.

Happy camping

im not to sure of them the former and latter both seem like suicide missions for the nids. They seem contempt with the way they are going. Planet hopping isnt all that bad id guess unless they make a stationary hive like bees.

The endgame for the nids is to eat everything biological in the entire galaxy and universe. The way they are going, is eating everything. And evidence suggests they are heading to Terra.

Limbo wrote:Deathleaper + Doom of Malan'tai = Tyranid version of Kerrigan. Question is: Would the swarm benefit from such a creature? It hardly needs a commander since a single organism couldn't match the collective of the hive mind, and if it was to be a really potent synapse node it would just be a big glowing weak spot for everyone to target. Still, this creatures power, both physical and psychic would probably be a great asset to the Tyranids

The problem with comparing Tyranids and the Hive Mind to the Zerg and the Overmmind is both are different things.

For Tyranids, it's a collective conciousness. It'sa big brain made up of the perceptions of every Tyranid. While they can't all act independantly, they all contribute to it.

The Overmind of the Zerg was its own entity with its own sentience without free will, and was created for a purpose. it knew its purpose, and wanted an escape - creating Kerrigan did this by adding control with free will.

The Tyranids wouldn't create something like Kerrigan because the hive mind isn't its own entity created to control the Tyranids, it is the Tyranid race, and the Tyranid race is the Hive Mind.

-Loki- wrote:

Limbo wrote:Deathleaper + Doom of Malan'tai = Tyranid version of Kerrigan. Question is: Would the swarm benefit from such a creature? It hardly needs a commander since a single organism couldn't match the collective of the hive mind, and if it was to be a really potent synapse node it would just be a big glowing weak spot for everyone to target. Still, this creatures power, both physical and psychic would probably be a great asset to the Tyranids

The problem with comparing Tyranids and the Hive Mind to the Zerg and the Overmmind is both are different things.

For Tyranids, it's a collective conciousness. It'sa big brain made up of the perceptions of every Tyranid. While they can't all act independantly, they all contribute to it.

The Overmind of the Zerg was its own entity with its own sentience without free will, and was created for a purpose. it knew its purpose, and wanted an escape - creating Kerrigan did this by adding control with free will.

The Tyranids wouldn't create something like Kerrigan because the hive mind isn't its own entity created to control the Tyranids, it is the Tyranid race, and the Tyranid race is the Hive Mind.

I am aware of how the Tyranids work, which is why I questioned if they needed a "General" creature like Kerrigan. Still if it just acted like a giant synapse node it would have some value, but as I pointed out, it would just be a giant glowing weak spot for the tyranids.

I can imagine the hive mind trying to spawn parasite infiltrators, kind of like the Facehuggers off Alien. I can sort of see a Lictor gathering the info or the feeding ground, and then these infiltrators laying gants inside people. Aliens begins from this point.

Btw I love the Alien movies, but I'm not a fan of nids

Unfortunately no matter how many humans or eldar they eat, they just can't figure out the warp or the webway. Typically it goes like this.

Tyranid 1: "Nom nom nom this one is crunchy. How about yours?"
Tyranid 2: "Nom nom...mostly squishy this one. Figured anything out yet?"
Tyranid 1: "Nom nom nom. Nope, keep eating."

Nemesor Dave wrote:Unfortunately no matter how many humans or eldar they eat, they just can't figure out the warp or the webway. Typically it goes like this.

Tyranid 1: "Nom nom nom this one is crunchy. How about yours?"
Tyranid 2: "Nom nom...mostly squishy this one. Figured anything out yet?"
Tyranid 1: "Nom nom nom. Nope, keep eating."

Why do they need to figure out the warp? The Shadow in the Warp stops vessels escaping via the warp. Nothing else is needed. As for the webway, there's nothing they need in there. Sure, there's the Dark Eldar in there, but it's not going to give them much biomass. Just leave it and eat a few more worlds.

-Loki- wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:Unfortunately no matter how many humans or eldar they eat, they just can't figure out the warp or the webway. Typically it goes like this.

Tyranid 1: "Nom nom nom this one is crunchy. How about yours?"
Tyranid 2: "Nom nom...mostly squishy this one. Figured anything out yet?"
Tyranid 1: "Nom nom nom. Nope, keep eating."

Why do they need to figure out the warp? The Shadow in the Warp stops vessels escaping via the warp. Nothing else is needed. As for the webway, there's nothing they need in there. Sure, there's the Dark Eldar in there, but it's not going to give them much biomass. Just leave it and eat a few more worlds.

Deathwatch explained that the Shadow in the Warp happens, when too many communication signals are sent through the Warp. In other words, the Warp is being overloaded, and hence prevents signals from being sent back and forth through the Warp.

I wouldn't go as far as to try and make sense of the Tyranids, as the only sense that can be made of them, are a given set of highly evolved primal instincts. They've evolved to a point where their very nature has been shaped to fit as a biological warmachine. None the less, these traits are no more than instincts.
- If you want a concrete comparison, you could look at our own species. In contrast of being an intelligent species, capable of thinking, understanding and analysing, we're still bound to a set of primitive urges, that is capable of dictating these intelligent capabilities. The same can be said about the Tyranids. Even though some creatures amongst their ranks shows intelligent behaviour, their nature still dominate their behaviour, hence rendering each organism unable to act fully on it's own.

I consider the Hive Mind to be a immaterium-based platform of psychic communications, that allows for the species, as a whole, to act as one, despite not being such. The Hive Mind isn't some overmind planning the next move. It's "merely" a place in the Warp, where the psychic communication of the race meets, enabling the race, as a whole, to act as if they were one larger organism. Most creatures within the given Hive Fleets are unable of thinking, even within the given frames of the Hive Mind. They act solely on instinct. All the larger leading organism does, is directing these instincts in a certain direction (eg. they tell them WHERE to go, but they don't tell them WHAT TO DO, when they arrive there).

The flaw to the Tyranids, however, is much clear: they NEED biomass to prosper. IMO, this is a product of their rapid abilities to evolve and adapt. Such occasions requires the fleet to consume and explore more useful dna material to mold into their ranks, in order to survive within the given hunting grounds.

@Kerrigan
Just a little note: The Tyranid HAVE GOT such a creature; The Swarmlord. An intelligent commander organism design, which consciousness upon death, is "uploaded" to the so called "immaterium-based platform of psychic communications". A leader veteran that cannot die! I think Kerrigan would come to short against such a beast entity!

bringing up this whole thing again, the Necrons are antiwarp AND their bodies contain a living bio metal.

that would be interesting to see if a group of genestealers that were able to bring back the living metal from the Necrons and evolve the species and bring them into a digital age.

imagine Nids that could heal themselves, and shoot energy weapons as well as hulking Tervigons and carnifex's and every other bog ones that is near impervious to bolterfire.

too crazy? well, if the metal is bio made, even partially, the nids can break it down.

thats a scary thought, metal chitin.

Necrodermis is not "bio-metal"... there's nothing biological about it, it's just metal. They call it "living metal" because it's self-healing and self-repairing... but they don't bleed.

Billinator wrote:
@Kerrigan
Just a little note: The Tyranid HAVE GOT such a creature; The Swarmlord. An intelligent commander organism design, which consciousness upon death, is "uploaded" to the so called "immaterium-based platform of psychic communications". A leader veteran that cannot die! I think Kerrigan would come to short against such a beast entity!

True, why did i forget about him?

Psienesis wrote:Necrodermis is not "bio-metal"... there's nothing biological about it, it's just metal. They call it "living metal" because it's self-healing and self-repairing... but they don't bleed.

you've been reading too much of the new codex.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Living_metal#.T33-q3q0JnM

there is evidence to support that it is indeed living and can be transferred.

hence, if the nids ever figure out how to adapt that, we're all screwed.

lexicanum wrote:It is a metallic substance that appears to grow and heal as if it were part of a living organism.

Notice the 'as if' in the bit I bolded

EDIT: not taking a shot at anyone, but read it first

IHateNids wrote:

lexicanum wrote:It is a metallic substance that appears to grow and heal as if it were part of a living organism.

Notice the 'as if' in the bit I bolded

EDIT: not taking a shot at anyone, but read it first

possibility still exists that it is, but the Adeptus Aestrtes isn't sure.

And the possibility still exists that the Tyranids will reach Terra, catch the influenza virus, and all curl up and die instantly.

There's really no possibility that the Necrodermis is biological. There's absolutely no purpose for it to be. If you want to see an example of it in action, go watch Terminator 2. Better still, imagine a bunch of T-800 Terminators that are actually made of the liquid metal construction of the T-1000, pretending to be solid objects.

Psienesis wrote:And the possibility still exists that the Tyranids will reach Terra, catch the influenza virus, and all curl up and die instantly.

There's really no possibility that the Necrodermis is biological. There's absolutely no purpose for it to be. If you want to see an example of it in action, go watch Terminator 2. Better still, imagine a bunch of T-800 Terminators that are actually made of the liquid metal construction of the T-1000, pretending to be solid objects.

you DO understand this is all fluff right? of COURSE there is a possibility.

Even the fluff disagrees with the notion that Necrodermis is, in any way, biological in origin or nature.

This isn't fluff, this is pointless fan-wankery.