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Overpriced? please get real, that thing is under priced as hell, 2 turns of shooting with average success at marines (which mind you is exactly what it is designed to take out) will easily earn more that its points back.

With 3 blast you can easily expect to kill 5 marines, 2 turns at 5*15 = 150, not to mention if you roll average or higher that thing can easily vaporize marine units.

I would take it with no upgrades and abuse its cost effectiveness.

Hate to be the guy who has to exit the Pred under fire and change the external drum mags on those bolters.

xxvaderxx wrote:Overpriced? please get real, that thing is under priced as hell, 2 turns of shooting with average success at marines (which mind you is exactly what it is designed to take out) will easily earn more that its points back.

With 3 blast you can easily expect to kill 5 marines, 2 turns at 5*15 = 150, not to mention if you roll average or higher that thing can easily vaporize marine units.

I would take it with no upgrades and abuse its cost effectiveness.

You journey into a dangerous place sir. Math hammer gives up few who travel down it's road.

Anywho, I think people are generally comparing it in price to the leman russ executioner which can move 6" and still fire that gun and one other. Also it has 14/13/11, whist our humble predator relies on 13/11/10. I always believed that predators should have 12 side armour.

That said soon as I can get my hands on a FW book that has this thing in it I'm gonna start building a nice list with it. 150 points for 3 plasma cannons and 2 heavy bolters, man just think about pricing that out as a dev squad. 5 marines base, 3 plasma cannons and 1 heavy bolter = 180 pts in vanilla marines and thats still a heavy bolter short.

Forgot the more obvious Trygon, Drop Pod and Vindicator kits. The latter two (iirc) were gw rules without models.

And what about the daemon princes, specifically the nurgle one? Gw and FW both have had them for quite some time. Or bloodthirster? Or Eldar Avatar? They are different sizes, but same rules.

Do the FW beakies and older armors mean any new sm kits will by strictly mk 7?

I don't see any FW model precluding a gw one. Gw even said they may do stuff FW does, it would just have different designs. A good example might be an old rhino versus new rhino chassis. We don't know anything, I'm not going to pretend we do.


OT those apoths will be mine. Maybe the preds, not sure yet.

whalemusic360 wrote:Forgot the more obvious Trygon, Drop Pod and Vindicator kits. The latter two (iirc) were gw rules without models.

And what about the daemon princes, specifically the nurgle one? Gw and FW both have had them for quite some time. Or bloodthirster? Or Eldar Avatar? They are different sizes, but same rules.

Do the FW beakies and older armors mean any new sm kits will by strictly mk 7?

I don't see any FW model precluding a gw one. Gw even said they may do stuff FW does, it would just have different designs. A good example might be an old rhino versus new rhino chassis. We don't know anything, I'm not going to pretend we do.


OT those apoths will be mine. Maybe the preds, not sure yet.

Argument was never that FW model precludes GW model

Argument was that FW model significantly delays new GW model.

I love the apothecaries they look great in the pre-heresy armor patterns!

I don't think it does much of anything. Those that will buy the FW kits will also buy the gw ones. FW is and always will be a different buying group then straight gw purchasers.

carabine wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:Overpriced? please get real, that thing is under priced as hell, 2 turns of shooting with average success at marines (which mind you is exactly what it is designed to take out) will easily earn more that its points back.

With 3 blast you can easily expect to kill 5 marines, 2 turns at 5*15 = 150, not to mention if you roll average or higher that thing can easily vaporize marine units.

I would take it with no upgrades and abuse its cost effectiveness.

You journey into a dangerous place sir. Math hammer gives up few who travel down it's road.

Anywho, I think people are generally comparing it in price to the leman russ executioner which can move 6" and still fire that gun and one other. Also it has 14/13/11, whist our humble predator relies on 13/11/10. I always believed that predators should have 12 side armour.

That said soon as I can get my hands on a FW book that has this thing in it I'm gonna start building a nice list with it. 150 points for 3 plasma cannons and 2 heavy bolters, man just think about pricing that out as a dev squad. 5 marines base, 3 plasma cannons and 1 heavy bolter = 180 pts in vanilla marines and thats still a heavy bolter short.

The 5 marines are more likely to retain capabilities while taking losses. Vehicles vs. Infantry heavy weapons is the old argument of putting all your eggs in one basket. They'll never see shaken or stunned... and they more easily benefit from cover saves.

I don't think many people believe its overpriced... the overpriced thing is the conversion beamer.

aka_mythos wrote:

carabine wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:Overpriced? please get real, that thing is under priced as hell, 2 turns of shooting with average success at marines (which mind you is exactly what it is designed to take out) will easily earn more that its points back.

With 3 blast you can easily expect to kill 5 marines, 2 turns at 5*15 = 150, not to mention if you roll average or higher that thing can easily vaporize marine units.

I would take it with no upgrades and abuse its cost effectiveness.

You journey into a dangerous place sir. Math hammer gives up few who travel down it's road.

Anywho, I think people are generally comparing it in price to the leman russ executioner which can move 6" and still fire that gun and one other. Also it has 14/13/11, whist our humble predator relies on 13/11/10. I always believed that predators should have 12 side armour.

That said soon as I can get my hands on a FW book that has this thing in it I'm gonna start building a nice list with it. 150 points for 3 plasma cannons and 2 heavy bolters, man just think about pricing that out as a dev squad. 5 marines base, 3 plasma cannons and 1 heavy bolter = 180 pts in vanilla marines and thats still a heavy bolter short.

The 5 marines are more likely to retain capabilities while taking losses. Vehicles vs. Infantry heavy weapons is the old argument of putting all your eggs in one basket. They'll never see shaken or stunned... and they more easily benefit from cover saves.

I don't think many people believe its overpriced... the overpriced thing is the conversion beamer.

Yeah the downside of all vehicles. All that weaponry that might disapear to a single guy with a missile launcher. Risk vs reward. Probably the reason I love land raiders so much, 2 TL lascannons a multi melta and a TL heavy bolter on an AV 14 platform, for about what it costs to field a 10 man squad of devastators with las cannons with about the same effectiveness... except the raider can move and kill and won't die to bolters.

Still Plasma pred is sexy, both in idea and product and still, I just don't get using conversion beamers.

wonder if these will be at salute tomorrow?

the Predator Executioner is lovely and I really wish Chaos could have one. the Apothecaries are beautiful, but I can't justify paying £20 for two models*


*That is to say, if they're available tomorrow I WILL be buying them. Immediately.

carabine wrote:
Still Plasma pred is sexy, both in idea and product and still, I just don't get using heavy conversion beamers.

On the predator and contemptor, the one and only real reason to take the conversion beamer is that its the only (potentially) high strength ordnance template weapon that space marines can take.

You mean apart from the vindi? And the Chapter Masters orbital bombardment.

Vitruvian XVII wrote:You mean apart from the vindi? And the Chapter Masters orbital bombardment.

Let me correct myself:..

aka_mythos wrote:On the predator and contemptor, the one and only real reason to take the conversion beamer is that its the only (potentially) high strength [long range] ordnance template weapon that space marines can take.

...I did actually intend that.

Not all chapters have the "Orbital Bombardment"... this is more accurate... and you can take more than one, or field all three options.

This is version of the Predator is the closest the Space Marines have ever come to an honest to god battle tank. It isn't just a turret with man-portable weapons.

Also for some of us old timers... its cool.

Yeah i figured thats what you meant, only messing

Not having lots of access to those weapons fits with sm fluff tho. (Just stating this btw, not implying you implied it)

carabine wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a plastic or metal griffon mortar so my point still stands though I have to move that item into another catagory I already stated. Canquishers had a 10 year gap between FW and GW production, again my point.

Not the world's best picture, but here is an example of the metal Griffon components in use. It was released with Codex: Imperial Guard during 2nd Edition, so I'd estimate 1995/6, and was only pulled from shops around the time the 4th ed codex came out, when it was randomly removed, having been present in the 3rd ed book, and returning in the 5th ed book. Quite why it hasn't been rereleased (or a plastic version released), I don't know - to me, it is the most battlefield-appropriate of all the IG self-propelled artillery.

carabine wrote:I've only been at this game for about 10 years, so I've never seen any skyrays or pirannah pre GW but with a good bit of net surfing I can't find any that aren't the plastic kits.

They've apparently been pulled from the FW site since being hijacked into Codex: Tau Empire, but the Skyray and Piranha were innovated by Forge World. They appeared in Imperial Armou 3: The Taros Campaign (released in 2005), on pages 167 and 181 respectively, though they would have been released before then.

carabine wrote:Again I said when FW releases a kit it generally means GW will not release a direct likeness or parallel anytime soon. I did not say never. I stand by my examples GW tends to wait much longer on producing kits that have already been released by FW.

The demigryphs would like a word with you, given they were "borrowed" inside a year. Ignoring upgrade kits (including such things as dreadnought arms), if it hasn't appeared in Epic or another GW game then Forge World has created the unit. GW will then generally see which kits are popular, or will fit with their idea of where a codex is going, before they decide to "borrow" the idea.

Finally, whoever thinks FW and GW talk a lot about what is coming up should ask them about Modelling Masterclass 2 - I'm just saying...

deejaybainbridge wrote:http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/DEIMOS_PATTERN_PREDATOR_EXECUTIONER.html



http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/SPACE_MARINE_APOTHECARY_SET.html



Just popped up on the facebook page.

ThomasPolder wrote:

Norn King wrote:Those apothecaries look sick.

Is it me or are the puns here getting worse?

Sadly I fear that wasn't a pun.

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Valkyrie, Baneblade, Manticore, vanquisher, wave serpent, the current design for the Whirlwind, the Immolator, the Piranha, and the Skyray have gone from FW to GW.

The inclusion of the Basilisk variants is not purely "GW picked up from FW", by the by. The Griffon Mortar(a Basilisk variant) was GW's before it was FW's.

fixed that for you

fixed that for you.
Everyone forgets the Eldar.

But will we be getting Apothecaries (and other characters, for that matter) in Mk III and Mk V, I wonder?

Dysartes wrote:The demigryphs would like a word with you, given they were "borrowed" inside a year. Ignoring upgrade kits (including such things as dreadnought arms), if it hasn't appeared in Epic or another GW game then Forge World has created the unit. GW will then generally see which kits are popular, or will fit with their idea of where a codex is going, before they decide to "borrow" the idea.

Finally, whoever thinks FW and GW talk a lot about what is coming up should ask them about Modelling Masterclass 2 - I'm just saying...

1 character on a demigryph does not derail this hypothesis. Considering how long it takes gw to sculpt and get ready to market an item as compared to how fast FW can do it comparitivly ( they're a dozen guys who sculpt almost at lesiure and are rather good and quick work) I'd put solid money that that was FW putting out a character to match what GW's unit. FW can turn out a model within 6 months with no effort. GW however takes atleast a year before marking what they have. Its just the issues with a larger company and more distribution situations.

Seeing that gryphon mortar puts my theory even more in tact, GW puts out their griffon, FW puts out THEIR griffon, GW's griffons don't sell well for 3rd ed so they don't come back in 4th. Griffons come back in 5th but because FW now has a model kit that's superior to what GW had in the past GW is now hesitant to put time and money into a new model rather than simply let the FW one stand for the time being.

Again since info for the skyray and phirana are kinda hard to find I again yield the points. Can't argue blindly.

On topic piece to keep it going. Anyone else planning on canibalizing those apothecaries for even more custom ones?

Insurgency Walker wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Valkyrie, Baneblade, Manticore, vanquisher, wave serpent, the current design for the Whirlwind, the Immolator, the Piranha, and the Skyray have gone from FW to GW.

The inclusion of the Basilisk variants is not purely "GW picked up from FW", by the by. The Griffon Mortar(a Basilisk variant) was GW's before it was FW's.

fixed that for you

fixed that for you.
Everyone forgets the Eldar.

You are absolutely right, how could I forget the Wave Serpent!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

carabine1 wrote: character on a demigryph does not derail this hypothesis. Considering how long it takes gw to sculpt and get ready to market an item as compared to how fast FW can do it comparatively ( they're a dozen guys who sculpt almost at lesiure and are rather good and quick work) I'd put solid money that that was FW putting out a character to match what GW's unit. FW can turn out a model within 6 months with no effort. GW however takes atleast a year before marking what they have. Its just the issues with a larger company and more distribution situations.

That model came out for "Tamurkhan: the Throne of Chaos" over a year ago. He was put out explicitly for "Tamurkhan: the Throne of Chaos". He apparently had a lot of preorders placed for him, so it would not have been strange to see GW sit up and take notice as they did with the Skyray/Piranhas.

Seeing that gryphon mortar puts my theory even more in tact, GW puts out their griffon, FW puts out THEIR griffon, GW's griffons don't sell well for 3rd ed so they don't come back in 4th. Griffons come back in 5th but because FW now has a model kit that's superior to what GW had in the past GW is now hesitant to put time and money into a new model rather than simply let the FW one stand for the time being.

Or it could simply be they're waiting for a release slot. There are multiple vehicles from the Guard book still without models, not to mention some characters. The release of the Manticore/Deathstrike kit with no option for a Hydra was a telling sign of this, since they decided to do an entirely new design of Manticore.
Off the top of my head the vehicles missing:
Griffon, Medusa, and Hydra.
Of those, the Griffon/Medusa could easily be a single kit--and if they do those two, they'd be silly not to package it with the Basilisk to cut down costs/SKUs.

Again since info for the skyray and phirana are kinda hard to find I again yield the points. Can't argue blindly.

It's not hard at all.

You just have to look at the plastic versions. GW lifted their versions straight from FW. Some of the scale on the Piranha got exaggerated, but that's about it.

On topic piece to keep it going. Anyone else planning on canibalizing those apothecaries for even more custom ones?

Cutting those guys up seems almost criminal.

Kanluwen wrote:Cutting those guys up seems almost criminal.

I'd make an exception to switch the melee weapon for a power sword or pistol, which might just be an arm swap - actually cutting would be unwise.

Overpriced? please get real, that thing is under priced as hell, 2 turns of shooting with average success at marines (which mind you is exactly what it is designed to take out) will easily earn more that its points back.

With 3 blast you can easily expect to kill 5 marines, 2 turns at 5*15 = 150, not to mention if you roll average or higher that thing can easily vaporize marine units.

Do you even play this game or did you just reply for the attention?

Ever realized most armies today are minmaxed squads all sitting in their transports?
Ever heard of spreading out your minis? I can imagine you loosing a lot when you face plasma russes since you obviously use a foot SM army where all the squads stand tightly together.
Ever seen someone use cover if faced with armour negating weapons?

So yes it is underpriced if...IF your opponent plays SM and not some dirt cheap infantry like IG.
IF your opponent doesnt use cover.
IF your opponent plays foot SM.
IF your opponent doesnt spread out his squads.
IF you dont roll scatter for those blasts.
IF you dont face an alpha strike army using mass DS.
IF your still AV13 expensive pred doesnt get destroyed before it can fire.

So nice logic there, sure a legion of the damned squad or a fully kitted jumppack vanguard squad are also underpriced if they face a lot of ifs.

Those apothecaries are unbelievable! I have no plans to do a marine army, but I'd love those just to paint and display. The predator I'm not so happy with. I really do not like the older pattern rhinos/preds, especially the turret, but I know that there are a lot of people who do so cheers to them.

Gimme my Pre-Heresy Assault Termies

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Gimme my Pre-Heresy Assault Termies

Seconded. Still waiting for cataphracts here. Will Hayes needs to get to work.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Gimme my Pre-Heresy Assault Termies

Assault Tartaros patter Terminators shouldn't be too long, given the appropriate arms have been sculpted for the Character Upgrade set.

Dysartes wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Gimme my Pre-Heresy Assault Termies

Assault Tartaros patter Terminators shouldn't be too long, given the appropriate arms have been sculpted for the Character Upgrade set.

He said pre heresy termies, not those fugly tartaros pattern ones which are NOT pre heresy. Their little blurb says that terminator armor in general is pre heresy and that the tartaros is just another mark.

carabine wrote:

Dysartes wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Gimme my Pre-Heresy Assault Termies

Assault Tartaros patter Terminators shouldn't be too long, given the appropriate arms have been sculpted for the Character Upgrade set.

He said pre heresy termies, not those fugly tartaros patter which are NOT pre heresy.

By FW's fluff, yeah the Tartaros pattern armor is from the era of "Pre-Heresy".

The Cataphract suits are "no longer in service", according to FW.

Apothecaries are pretty...