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mattyrm wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:You know what, Matty?

Next time you're in NE, or I'm in the UK, we need to have a game.

It would be terrifying, and I'm pretty sure it would be the only 40K game ever to have a bodycount, but it would be glorious.

Ill let you know next time I'm over that way, I said Id take the missus to New York and Boston this summer.

Time and a Place.

It'll be DakkaDakka greatest Battle Report ever.

Davylove21 wrote:And Pokemon cards used to be awesome but now they're just a sad reminder of what used to be good and pure in the world.

Hold the phone - at no point has anything to do with Pokemon been awesome, let alone good and pure...

hotsauceman1 wrote:

Yodhrin wrote:I have no issue with younger gamers, it's even enjoyable sometimes to help someone learn how to play, my issue is their parents. Trust me, after you've endured some psycho-mum ranting at you for twenty minutes and calling you a paedophile for giving their 14 year old a "good game" handshake, you'll be much less eager to game against anyone under 18 too.

Did that really happen?
And How do i feel about kid gamers. Not sure, I have met some that have destroyed me.
All in all its the person.

Alas it did, a couple of years back; I'd never attended that particular LGS before(and haven't since), but after the fact I was told by the manager that the poor kid's mum insisted on hovering about the store whenever he went, to keep an eye on him. Too much time spent reading the old Daily Fail I suspect.

I've got no problem playing anyone, regardless of age. It's maturity level that determines whether I would play someone or not.

However, experience has shown me that the younger crowd (especially at the flgs) lack maturity (obivously - they are still growing up and learning the worldly ways).

When I got back into the hobby about a 2yrs ago the first question I asked was "Is there a mature gaming group around I could jump into?" The guys I've met since jumping back in (some from this very forum) have been awesome. All around the same age (25-40).

Simply because I would rather hang out with people my own age to relax and have a drink with as well as throw some dice over well-painted/converted armies.

admiral9 wrote:I have noticed that there is a certain hate for the young hobbyists not a huge one but it does exist.
So i want to know why?
An example. I am 15 years old

And therein is the problem, unless one of your parents is there with you. People do not appreciate being forced to watch someone else's kid during their free time.

I'm also fairly young. I've noticed that the adult gamers in my group will respect you if you play well and know what you are doing. I've found that if your playing against a good person, you get double respect points for beating them.

People do not appreciate being forced to watch someone else's kid during their free time.

He's 15... do 15 year olds need 'minded' in the USA? In the UK at least a child requires no supervision unless he's being put at risk (which I don't think really includes being left at a games shop for a few hours).

While I'd rather play someone who plays well and in a sporting manner than otherwise, I don't mind the odd game against someone who hasn't perhaps got a good grasp on the rules (a group that would include some under 18s but also many over 18s) and I'm prepared to suffer through the odd game where for whatever reason my opponent sees the need to indulge in some rules bending (which again can include kids but also, more sadly, a certain sort of adult be they new to the game or not). In the latter case I find that often the younger players benefit from playing someone who's prepared to abide by the rules regardless and they quite often adapt their behaviour accordingly even without being openly challenged on any shennanigans.

Obviously people can refuse to play anyone they wish for whatever reasons they wish but personally I'm prepared to cut kids some slack and locally they're not really much of a problem compared to a couple of late-teen/20-somethings who are rather more prone to 'elastic' play and tantrum.

DemetriDominov wrote:We're advancing science and technology at an unparalleled pace throughout history, but much like the Imperium, our culture is becoming stagnant and less capable of supporting these new responsibilities. I agree that in my short time on this earth, every generation after mine seems to be getting more and more immature and we seek instant gratification more often through outlets that do not support creativity and imagination in the same ways as music, art, and literature has. "Idiocracy" is more prevalent than ever, because our pleasures can be given to us quicker and in more powerful doses than before without any responsibility or even work. In doing so we lose interest in these hobbies because of the time investment required to achieve success. It's the same thing all over the place, when we don't have to work hard for something, we no longer appreciate it's value.

"Instant gratification"-Demetri
"Any accomplishment requires constant energy and constant work"

Thing is though, it is a 50-50 tradeoff.

50 %, because playing games with kids is not one of the best experiences, especially when they overtly just psuh into the game area, plop down a greay horde, then expect to table all comers, then get all butthurt when they are sent packing.

But.

50% because those same PITA's are your next generation of gamer coming up much in the same way as we did ourselves, sans manners. Manners is relative, as well. Main thing is that you play them, teach them in the peramiters of your game club social norms, and hold thier feet to the the fire when they commit various acts of Faux Pas. ( Same as when you came up, you got your ears pinned back every once inawhile, but on the whole the game area eather taught you that you liked gaming, or drove you to other avenues, like tagging, shoplifiting, being a general jackass, or whatever they call it these days.

A kid comes in on gaming, the least you can do is put it out there that you want to teach them if they want to learn- But if they want to act the fool there are ways to deal with that as well.

It isn't so much of a question of "Hate", but a question of- THESE days, most adults don't want anything to do with kids based on they do not feel like ending up on the 6:00 news for some sort of perv stuff or altercation that is going to get them hemmed up with johnny law. Myself, I could take kids in the shop or leave them.

I'd rather meet your moms.

I think that Grot has said exactly what needs to be said.

Except for the "I want to meet your moms" part.

THESE days, most adults don't want anything to do with kids based on they do not feel like ending up on the 6:00 news for some sort of perv stuff or altercation that is going to get them hemmed up with johnny law

Maybe. More likely I think is that gamers, who are often not very outgoing anyway, sometimes don't really know how to deal with kids and often have unrealistic expectations coupled with low tolerance, coupled with the fact that as leisure time has expanded, adults seem more focused on its quality rather than the mere fact it exists (which isn't by any means unreasonable in my view) and playing kids is seen as a 'waste of time' (or more likely to be a waste of time).

Mind you when I was younger (14-24, say) I don't think I ever played wargames against anyone who was more than a couple of years older or younger than me, though that was perhaps partly because the opportunities just weren't there.

Who said anything about younger gamers? The local MTG crowd, which is mostly college age guys and older, is louder than the local Pokemon crowd that meets at the same FLGS. Seriously, you cannot hear yourself think over all of the cursing, trash-talking and raging that goes on during Friday Night Magic. Pretty much everyone other than the MTG crowd stays miles away from the FLGS on Friday nights.

_Tim?

Well I don't mind loudness. Actually I rather enjoy the excitement and craziness that goes on with the 40k gamers. At my LGS the 40k players expect eachother to get into the game and be animated. That's kind of why I took 40k over FoW. Flames tends to be quite and all the guys are prepping tourney lists. Whereas 40k is expected to have shouts of "WAAAAGH!" or "Blood for the Blood God!" Quite amusing really

What is with all of the cliques in game stores? It is not only about younglings. There are all kinds of cliques, even when there are relatively few people. You have the golden daemon painters, the speed painters, the scenery makers, the power gamers, TFG, video gamers, goths, ex military, kids, etc.

Gamers act like a bunch of teenage girls, gossiping behind peoples backs, putting people down, etc. They just can't seem to get along with many other gamers.

The only solution is to hate the haters. Oh wait that won't work. Well, it looks like in the future there will only be war.

There are all kinds of cliques

True... or at least true that there will always be sub-groups within any larger group (and that includes groups with a membership as small as 3) where some members will be closer than others for any number of reasons. This can often come across as cliquery even when no clique actually exists. But it's just life, really. Locally I think i'm perceived as being in a 'tournament gamers' clique by some of my GW shop regulars and as a 'ringer (for want of a better term)' by some of my local 40K club members... part of a clique in one, outside the clique in the other. In truth in neither case do I think a proper clique (an exclusive selective grouping) exists.

Cliques are a pretty common thing everywhere. It is hard to have a regular meeting group (in any field) that get very well acquainted that do not appear to be a clique.

This is not usually intentional rather the perception of those outside it.

Hey man it happens but know this. If you start playing the game (i mean the right way) you will earn their respect. Of course beating them with in the rules and pointing out when they dont get a magjor rule right (you'd be surprised on how many times i've caught people) You will start to earn their repsect. Now i know this because i am 16 and I have been playing since 4th (for you math guys i was in 6th grade) I am now proud to say that show me a adult in the game and I will not only give him a run for his money but will beat him more than likely. In the last uear i have been wrong on 2 rules total. Now my that comes from sitting on the toliet reading codexs and rule books. (good idea for you to try. Now I belive i am not your normal 16 year old. I have already starte to look at colleges includeing visting them. I have also go in and talked with recruiters on Army ROTC stuff. So if your are responable you will gain their respect. A good qoute i try to live my life by is
"Respect takes a life time to earn but, a second to loose it" -Brain Wadsworth (5th grade teacher of mine) Also if you live by these rules you will gain their respect for they will make shure you follow the rules and are a nice person to play against or with. H.D.C. (Honor, Duty, Country)

Cliques happen everywhere.
You can't avoid them.
It's part of the human need to "belong" to a group, and the root of all tribalism. Those who are like us and those who are not. Many cultures do this - and they even have names for it.

Commonly, their name for their own group is "of the people" and the others are "not of the people".

admiral9 wrote:I have noticed that there is a certain hate for the young hobbyists not a huge one but it does exist.
So i want to know why?
An example. I am 15 years old, i play tau its my first army. My painting is gakky and my gaming skills are less then descent.
But when i play i am always polite. I admire the paint jobs of the guys in my FLGS and never go whine about cheese.
So i was wondering why the hate.

I feel you my russian friend. I am often picked on for playing "cheese" and that it is because I am so young.
The fact of the matter is that we are the new generation and they need to realise that we are going to be replacing them at somepoint regardless.
Just remind them that they were our age at one point and if they still dont listen then they are just behind a thick wall of egotism. We all go through newbie phases just some have easy and some have it hard. One possible reason however is that they may think you will drop out of the hobby in short time.

spaceelf wrote:What is with all of the cliques in game stores? It is not only about younglings. There are all kinds of cliques, even when there are relatively few people. You have the golden daemon painters, the speed painters, the scenery makers, the power gamers, TFG, video gamers, goths, ex military, kids, etc.

Gamers act like a bunch of teenage girls, gossiping behind peoples backs, putting people down, etc. They just can't seem to get along with many other gamers.

The only solution is to hate the haters. Oh wait that won't work. Well, it looks like in the future there will only be war.
"in the future there will only be war"
I see what you did there. Now where is my cat picture saying that????
Found it.....

I feel you my russian friend. I am often picked on for playing "cheese" and that it is because I am so young.

Or, alternatively, it is because you play cheese. Also, alternatively, those players weren't all asses when they were young. Or didn't bother the older, obviously more serious players.

i was a manager at a game store that my brother owned. i had to learn every game. including: pokemon and yugioh. from that point on i hated anyone younger then 14 as i just couldnt stand them for more then 5 mins. its different when your a gamer and you agree to play them. but when i have to run a tournament with a bunch of 15 yr old douches wearing skinny jeans, justin beiber haircuts, and bigger then normal glasses that have no lense in them, with flat rimmed hats and all of them have ipod headphones stuck in there ear, that cant carry on a conversation for more then 5 mins because of there adhd... well you get the point... if you had to endure that for about 4 hours of a MTG or yugioh tournament you will hate them too.

i started gaming when i was 12 and i was nothing like them. But ofcourse i was involved in sports and an army kid so any of that behavior wasnt tolerated or i get my butt chewed out by the coach or whooped by parents. lol.

Chowderhead wrote:

mattyrm wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:You know what, Matty?

Next time you're in NE, or I'm in the UK, we need to have a game.

It would be terrifying, and I'm pretty sure it would be the only 40K game ever to have a bodycount, but it would be glorious.

Ill let you know next time I'm over that way, I said Id take the missus to New York and Boston this summer.

Time and a Place.

It'll be DakkaDakka greatest Battle Report ever.

Might get me to actually read that section again.

I am 27, I don't profess to hate teenagers. However, what I will say is that the majority of teenagers are churlish, petty and very uninterested in the game. They wander away given a moments notice and they cheat like blazes regardless of whether you are a veteran and notice it or a new player.

Because that age group is so petty, I know of at least 3 stores where they have games night on a thursday night to dissuade all the teenagers from coming in to annoy the vets.

If you come in, I want you to behave, do hobby and don't mouth off at your opponent every time your deathstar unit gets hit.

Blood and Slaughter wrote: He's 15... do 15 year olds need 'minded' in the USA? In the UK at least a child requires no supervision unless he's being put at risk (which I don't think really includes being left at a games shop for a few hours).

He cannot drive, drink, vote or work. Just to be clear, dumping your kids off at a store "for a few hours" because you don't have the time or inclination to watch them is in no way acceptable.

Blood and Slaughter wrote:
Maybe. More likely I think is that gamers, who are often not very outgoing anyway, sometimes don't really know how to deal with kids and often have unrealistic expectations coupled with low tolerance, coupled with the fact that as leisure time has expanded, adults seem more focused on its quality rather than the mere fact it exists (which isn't by any means unreasonable in my view) and playing kids is seen as a 'waste of time' (or more likely to be a waste of time).

No. It is because we do not run a babysitting service, if you are too busy to watch your kids and leave them with some strangers perhaps you should have pulled out 15 years ago.

Necroagogo wrote:

Piston Honda wrote: Joined my gaming group at 17 and got a "F-U" like welcoming for about 4 years mostly no other reason other than I was young and the new guy.

And you suffered that for 4 years? Wow, Did the club have unlimited booze or ladies of negotiable affection to hand?

Well close to it.

I was awarded my OWN gaming table with built in cabinets and locks built by a couple of members. It is mine, can do anything and play anything on it. I call my table the black pearl. Spray painted flat back with a painted skull and cross bones on the center of the table with a Jolly Roger flag on one of the corners. It makes me feel special sine only 6 of the 50 some people who play at the shop on various days have their own table.

I let anyone play on it as long as they don't kick it or put drinks on it.

Which reminds me, got to screw in the cup holders I bought a couple years back for it.

matphat wrote:I have absolutely no hate for the young gamer.
It's a fact of life that a 40 yr old and a 15 yr old have no business trying to act like peers.
If I'm interacting with a 15 yr old, its because I'm his mentor or his relative, otherwise our culture, experiences, and outlook are too different for it to be beneficial for either of us.

As a person well into his 30s, Ill agree with this. Ive been on both ends of it, as the young noob, and the experienced adult gamer. When your young its hard to understand, but as you get older it just clicks and you realize why you were treated that way when you were young, and notice yourself doing it to younger folks. Outside of the parent/relative or teacher/mentor role things like gaming are best done with people closer to your own age.

This is very true of a more closed gaming group/club...as you will find yourselves being friends and active in things outside of just gaming.

we do not run a babysitting service

Which is fine because you don't need to babysit 15 year olds or indeed any under 18s/under 21s 'dumped' in your shop. In general kids are there because the want to be, they're not dumped -- if their parents were dancing attendance on them throughout, you'd really have to worry.

As an older player I try not to overgeneralize- each player is to be taken on their own merits.

This said, I've pretty consistently had these problems the younger players around here:

1. Texting when they should be paying attention to the game.
2. More interested in their buddies than the game.
3. Leaving the table and take forever to come back- often chatting with the staff instead of, oh I don't know, THEIR TURN.
4. Immediately losing interest in the game when their favorite unit dies.
5. Not knowing the rules.
6. Not bringing a written down army list.

This is bad behavior that can be found in any age group, but it seems to be rampant in the younger ones.

What age are we talking for young gamers? <15 I can understand, but as a gamer of 17 years old, I think (or at least hope) I am polite and respectful to older gamers. I find the younger crowd (that is, 14 or younger generally) to be quite annoying generally, but I think this is more to do with them not knowing rules, etc.

However, you cannot blanket everyone into one group. I know kids that are about 9 - 10 that are good painters, good gamers, and are not incredibly irritating. Sure, most of them are. But not all of them. There can always be an exception.