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admiral9 wrote: I admire the paint jobs of the guys in my FLGS and never go whine about cheese.
So i was wondering why the hate.

That cheese eh, sometimes it just isn't good enough! Stilton, Cheddar... you name it!

There's a lot of factors, and it isn't necessarily hate.

I'm one of the people who would much rather not play a younger gamer if there's a choice. For me it's mostly just how me, and the older crowd around, get into the game. We curse, and shout, and threaten, all in good fun and spirits.

But when I have to play a younger opponent, it's a much more calm and terse game. A lot of times I feel I can't bring the full weight of my army to bare because it feels so much more... ish against someone younger and generally newer to the game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely willing to help new people learn, including younger gamers. And there are some exceptions, but generally the overall tone of the games I have against a younger player make me prefer to spend my gaming time playing against someone else.

I have no problem playing someone younger. You guys often play as good as the rest of the people my age. I don't care what your army looks like. The only request or expectation that I have; and this goes for every opponent, is that you are not a jerk. Everyone should be treated equal imo.

I think most hate for younger gamer comes from the fact that many older gamers view us as immature. Although some younger gamers can be very immature, judging all younger fans of wargames this way is just wrong. This is really one of those times when 1 apple ruins the bunch.

Because they all stink =]

There were four underage kids at our local FLGS until recently. I say that because one of them just hit 16 and got his driver's liscence, and we haven't seen him or his two buddies since. I presume they are off doing teenage things with the car now.

The youngest one - thirteen, I think - is a young lady who knows the rules pretty well and is well on the way to becoming a wicked tactician... when she puts her mind to it anyway. But she had an unfair advantage, her dad plays too and they have been playing (and painting) together for several years.

The other trio was a mixed batch. The oldest one was a decent enough player, but had all the tactical finesse of a thrown brick. Playing WOC suited him well. The middle one was a bit more scattered, but a nice kid. The youngest... I got the impression he played WFB because the other two did, not because he wanted to. He was a real pain to deal with.

As everything in life does, it comes down to individuals.

I don't like younger gamers because they are walking reminders of my own mortality.

I game with younger gamers all the time. SOME are fine. Some are a pain in the arse. The same could be said for the older gamers.
AND, just BTW, no one just gets respect because they are older. You give someone respect if they earn it. There are plenty of older people who have not the slightest sense of what it means to behave and treat others with respect. sure, good behavior is learned over time (usually), but that does not mean that you have to be nice to someone who is older than you. thats a crock.
You give what you get. Show up. Model the behaviors that you wish to receive from your opponent, and if they still act like they are better than you just because they are older, well... that just show a level of immaturity that is unbefitting of anyone. especially an older more experienced gamer.
Some of my favorite gamers are a lot younger than me. Just saying.

Heh.

Maturity is not a function of chronological age.

I know some very immature 40 year olds.
I know some quite mature 18 year olds.

chromedog wrote:Heh.

Maturity is not a function of chronological age.

I know some very immature 40 year olds.
I know some quite mature 18 year olds.

What he said

GW is *not* free daycare.

That is why I despise younglings.

Despite probably being a 'youngling' to many members of this board

Henners91 wrote:GW is *not* free daycare.

That is why I despise younglings.

I started when I was 8, and actively participated in games night when I was 12. My brother, 3 1/2 years older than me, would take me by train to our closest GW to play every week, and get picked up by our parents at closing. And that's what we did - participate in store wide games.

Is that free daycare? We weren't lumped in the store while they went shopping, we went on our own time. I was definitely a youngling, and one of the youngest there.

I don't know whether to say you're in a minority, since I avoid GWs like the plague, but in the time I *have* actually spent there, the dominant image I took away was of loud-mouthed little bints being left by momma without any intention of actually buying anything or being constructive.

Do you actually see them being dropped off by their parents for the day?

Another point to consider is they may be doing it because the kid wants to play some games. That doesn't make it parents treating GW like daycare, it makes it young kids wanting to play games with their stuff, and parents not wanting to stand around doing nothing for hours.

I guess I really don't get the irrational hate for younger players. Everyone I know started when they were young, just like me, and I haven't actually met anyone who got into the hobby later in life. I'm not saying they don't exist, just my experience.

I don't play at my local GW because it's terrible. I still get young kids at my FLGS, though not as many (most likely due to it being very far from any shopping areas - not because it's hard to use the place as 'free daycare', but likely a child safety concern). Most of the kids I see playing are accompanying their parents who are also playing. I don't see this at GW since all my local stores (even the bunker near where I work) are tiny. Again, it's not an issue. They're just miniature hobbyists.

Maybe I have been lucky that my FLGS has only a few younglings for 40k, but they actually aren't too bad ... no worse than some of the oldlings.

I mostly play Warmahordes, and the kids I've met that play it have generally been pretty cool. What I'm interested more in is this:

Piston Honda wrote:I was awarded my OWN gaming table with built in cabinets and locks built by a couple of members. It is mine, can do anything and play anything on it. I call my table the black pearl. Spray painted flat back with a painted skull and cross bones on the center of the table with a Jolly Roger flag on one of the corners. It makes me feel special sine only 6 of the 50 some people who play at the shop on various days have their own table.

I let anyone play on it as long as they don't kick it or put drinks on it.

Which reminds me, got to screw in the cup holders I bought a couple years back for it.

. . . how the heck did you rate THAT?

I'm 21, I've been playing for over a decade and have only once come across a person (out of probably several hundred) that I would never play again because they were immature. I play at home or at my nearest GW, but I don't believe my store could be so disproportionately well behaved compaired to what some of you guys are saying.

Great White wrote:I think we should get a chance to prove ourselves first. Not get kicked to the curb on first sight for something like age.

This guy is 100% correct, how can a person possibly prove that they're not as emotionally and socially stunted as a lot of you seem to assume if you wont even give them a chance?

In my defense, you're all young to me.

I was never a child gamer.
So I neither know the viewpoint nor understand it.
I started gaming with mates my age (18), when all the gamers around me were that age or older (in the late 80s there WERE no "child gamers" who attended conventions or tournaments). There were no child gamers playing 40k or battletech or anything else at that time where I lived - so I'll assume if there were, they kept to themselves.

I was also a well behaved gamer (I didn't touch people's stuff without first asking and receiving permission), didn't pester people during games and paid attention where required when I started. I have seen these traits in some younger gamers around me now, but by and large, they are outnumbered by the screeching, attention deficit individuals and their instant gratification needs.

I don't hate them. I just don't associate with them. Mainly because a 43 year old "hanging out" with under 18s is creepy (from both sides).

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Xeriapt wrote:Theres plenty of younger gamers at the club I go to (probably ages 12-15 I imagine) most are fine to game with.

The only things that annoy me is if they have half an army proxied with anything they can find, or they just dont know how to play at all, but to be fair everyone has to start somewhere.

Lastly and least commonly they have some soft drink and get all hyper then its just hard to play a game while they bounce off the walls.

I know that I've been yelled at a couple of times for leaving a game, as I'm checking my Blood Sugars.

If I have, Hypoglycemia, I'll act quite hyper, which has gotten me yelled at before

Thats an excuse. Do what you have to to act properly. No one when care when you enter Real Life (TM). If you were an employee who bounced around like an idiot you wouldn't last long.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fafnir wrote:I just hate kids. Has nothing to do with whether they're on the other side of the table or not.

Still, I do my best to treat them politely and with the respect I would want them to give me. Just because you dislike someone doesn't mean you can't be civil.

I don't, not any more, but then again I no longer play where kids are present. I can barely stand 20 year olds at this point, and they give me a wide berth. Of course, at this point I'm pretty wide, so they have to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

matphat wrote:I have absolutely no hate for the young gamer.
It's a fact of life that a 40 yr old and a 15 yr old have no business trying to act like peers.
If I'm interacting with a 15 yr old, its because I'm his mentor or his relative, otherwise our culture, experiences, and outlook are too different for it to be beneficial for either of us.

This. Plus you have the additional fact that, past a certain age, playing a kid gets into the pervy sweaty old guy by the keg level.
This does not apply to teching them the game etc. or if there is a real heavy mix of younger older gamers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chromedog wrote:I don't hate them. I just don't associate with them. Mainly because a 43 year old "hanging out" with under 18s is creepy (from both sides).

Agreed.

admiral9 wrote:I have noticed that there is a certain hate for the young hobbyists not a huge one but it does exist.
So i want to know why?
An example. I am 15 years old, i play tau its my first army. My painting is gakky and my gaming skills are less then descent.
But when i play i am always polite. I admire the paint jobs of the guys in my FLGS and never go whine about cheese.
So i was wondering why the hate.

Please understand that you are the kind of young gamer I would happly play against. However, there are many young gamers who have the attention spans of gnats,a certain deviance from neurotypical behavior, rage issues, and the inability to do things such as count. If you are not one of these, then you are welcome to my store and table any time. When people are complaining about young gamers, they are not talking about you. Unless they know you personally.

When I was little, I found it very easy to interact with adults.

I was fairly quiet, always had an excellently painted army and a lot of patience and a high attention span.

If you're young and don't have some or any of the above, there's your problem.

When someone mentioned a "younger gamer" I agree that chronological age does not equal playability. I have played some teenage gamers who are fantastic, others are transwrecks. I started this game when I was 12-13 and went to my first tournment when i was 16. I was respectful of opponent and learned a lot. I don't think anyone regretted playing me. I also wasn't a push over as I really learned competitive play and tactics fast. 16 years later i'm still learning, those younger players teach me things all the time.

However, I do not believe that anyone under the age of 16 should really be at a tournment. I had the pleasure of playing a teenager this last weekend. He beat me fair and square his demons vs my orks. Both lists competitive. It was one of the most enjoyable games I have had for a very very long time. He knew the rules, game was smooth. It was great.

Same tournment, I played a 8 year old. He should not have been in a tournment. He had no attention as was expected. Ironically he had a very good Ork army list, with some poorly put together models where I had no idea what was what. I likely would not play him again. I didn't want to play him in the first play, as I knew I needed full battle points to place, and was nervious about inflicting a severe beating. He knew the basics. But I caught him several times rolling more dice, not removing casualties, arguing rules he had no understanding of. I have no blame for him as he is young and still learning things that need to be applied to the game, such as grammer, reading, writing, which have to be applied.

Those are the only opponent I do not want to play very young children. 16+ years olds, perfectly fine. Most of them can spank and adult easily and even be a better sport about it.

chromedog wrote: that age or older (late 80s)

i

m00ndragon wrote:.

i started gaming when i was 12 and i was nothing like them. But ofcourse i was involved in sports and an army kid so any of that behavior wasnt tolerated or i get my butt chewed out by the coach or whooped by parents. lol.

Same here. And i am still a young kid. If i acted like that my father would be over me harder than a drill sargent on a new pvt.

Gorechild wrote:I'm 21, I've been playing for over a decade and have only once come across a person (out of probably several hundred) that I would never play again because they were immature. I play at home or at my nearest GW, but I don't believe my store could be so disproportionately well behaved compaired to what some of you guys are saying.

I think I know who you're talking about...

I hate rotten kids in any setting, FLGS included. I am an equalist.

From age 3 to 18, people are persona non grata to me. Age 3 because that's when they stop being cute and start being annoying...

admiral9 wrote:I have noticed that there is a certain hate for the young hobbyists not a huge one but it does exist.
So i want to know why?
An example. I am 15 years old, i play tau its my first army. My painting is gakky and my gaming skills are less then descent.
But when i play i am always polite. I admire the paint jobs of the guys in my FLGS and never go whine about cheese.
So i was wondering why the hate.

You answered your own question without knowing it.

You yourself are always polite, so it is easy for you not to understand.

I hate kids who run amok the shop being terps who grab your model, butt into conversations, etc. etc. etc.

Basically rude little snots whose parents taught them no manners. If they are going to be such twerps, then I feel no need to hold back and treat them rudely.

wpago wrote:

m00ndragon wrote:.

i started gaming when i was 12 and i was nothing like them. But ofcourse i was involved in sports and an army kid so any of that behavior wasnt tolerated or i get my butt chewed out by the coach or whooped by parents. lol.

Same here. And i am still a young kid. If i acted like that my father would be over me harder than a drill sargent on a new pvt.

Thank your parents for making you into decent human beings. There's a lot of individuals out there who haven't had that advantage.

Being 40, I don't mind kids that are respectful and love the hobby and such.

Like anything its the disrespectful at any age, the power gamer, the obnoxious ones, I don't care what age they are, I dislike them and do not want to play anything with them or show them anything in the hobby.