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2012/05/30 21:19:26
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
dæl wrote:There is a distinct difference between growing and refining your own biofuel, which is time consuming, and having a ground source heat pump/heat exchanger/solar panel/turbine fitted, which once done will just save you money and not cost any time.
...assuming you're willing to wait 30 years to "save money" on that solar panel.
With a solar hot water heater on my roof, I started saving money within 3 days. The Natural gas didn't have to heat my water. That winter my furnace had to work about half as hard, saving me on average $85 per month. Factor in the water heater savings I was saving around $130 per month in the winter off my gas bill, and about $65 in the summer. It was pretty instant.
biccat wrote:You suggested that "the way we've always done it" didn't work out so well.
We've as in the human race. Have nuclear waste to dispose off. Seas of plastic waste, floating in the pacific.
Trees with no leaves, due to gasses from fossil fuels. And crude oil washed up on our beaches. Plus wars over resources, so yes well done.
Carry on as normal eh, lets see what else we can screw up.
Sounds like a life not worth living. If I were you i'd volunteer all my organs to others and do the honorable thing.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/05/30 21:22:32
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
loki old fart wrote:We've as in the human race. Have nuclear waste to dispose off. Seas of plastic waste, floating in the pacific. Trees with no leaves, due to gasses from fossil fuels. And crude oil washed up on our beaches. Plus wars over resources, so yes well done. Carry on as normal eh, lets see what else we can screw up.
And with that comes increased living standards, easy communication across the globe that requires no more than pushing a button, increased availability of food, reduced working hours, global food distribution networks (seriously, I could buy strawberries in upstate Minnesota in the depths of winter by merely driving a few miles to the grocery store), and technological innovations that people as early as 50 years ago could only dream about. To say nothing about increased longevity, eradication of once-deadly and debilitating diseases, and incredible advances in health care that allow legions of individuals to survive who would have died before reaching adulthood in centuries past.
Yeah, lets carry on as normal. It's a fething awesome time to be alive.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/05/30 21:23:28
text removed by Moderation team.
2012/05/30 21:25:40
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
dæl wrote:Things like facts don't really mean much to you do they biccat? Takes ten years to pay for its installation, that means it's saving money from day one, just not much. And bear in mind that fuel prices are constantly rising, so it could be less than ten years based on what you'd be paying three years from now.
From what I've seen, the price for solar panels is around $10,000 per KW for about 1300 hours per year. My electric rate is around $0.15/KWh.
You do the mathS and show me how I'm wrong.
Well according to this site, cost is £10,000, savings of £670 a year, so pays for itself after 15 (ish) years. But as I have said numerous times, ground source heat pumps are what people should be getting, not solar panels, unless you use solar panels to just heat your water, which is a completely different thing than electricity production.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
biccat wrote:
loki old fart wrote:We've as in the human race. Have nuclear waste to dispose off. Seas of plastic waste, floating in the pacific.
Trees with no leaves, due to gasses from fossil fuels. And crude oil washed up on our beaches. Plus wars over resources, so yes well done.
Carry on as normal eh, lets see what else we can screw up.
And with that comes increased living standards, easy communication across the globe that requires no more than pushing a button, increased availability of food, reduced working hours, global food distribution networks (seriously, I could buy strawberries in upstate Minnesota in the depths of winter by merely driving a few miles to the grocery store), and technological innovations that people as early as 50 years ago could only dream about. To say nothing about increased longevity, eradication of once-deadly and debilitating diseases, and incredible advances in health care that allow legions of individuals to survive who would have died before reaching adulthood in centuries past.
Yeah, lets carry on as normal. It's a fething awesome time to be alive.
Because we would have had none of that if we'd used Tesla's tower contraption for infinite, free energy. A century of stagnation would surely have followed us having abundant power.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/05/30 21:30:09
2012/05/30 21:31:50
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
loki old fart wrote:We've as in the human race. Have nuclear waste to dispose off. Seas of plastic waste, floating in the pacific.
Trees with no leaves, due to gasses from fossil fuels. And crude oil washed up on our beaches. Plus wars over resources, so yes well done.
Carry on as normal eh, lets see what else we can screw up.
And with that comes increased living standards, easy communication across the globe that requires no more than pushing a button, increased availability of food, reduced working hours, global food distribution networks (seriously, I could buy strawberries in upstate Minnesota in the depths of winter by merely driving a few miles to the grocery store), and technological innovations that people as early as 50 years ago could only dream about. To say nothing about increased longevity, eradication of once-deadly and debilitating diseases, and incredible advances in health care that allow legions of individuals to survive who would have died before reaching adulthood in centuries past.
Yeah, lets carry on as normal. It's a fething awesome time to be alive.
Strangely enough I have all that too.
All that comes with social development, You can have that without, screwing the environment
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2012/05/30 21:33:10
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
Southampton, Hampshire, England, British Isles, Europe, Earth, Sol, Sector 001
loki old fart wrote:
biccat wrote:You suggested that "the way we've always done it" didn't work out so well.
We've as in the human race. Have nuclear waste to dispose off. Seas of plastic waste, floating in the pacific.
Trees with no leaves, due to gasses from fossil fuels. And crude oil washed up on our beaches. Plus wars over resources, so yes well done.
Carry on as normal eh, lets see what else we can screw up.
dæl wrote:Well according to this site, cost is £10,000, savings of £670 a year, so pays for itself after 15 (ish) years.
So not really "ten years to pay for its installation." Btw, here's the site I used.
dæl wrote:Because we would have had none of that if we'd used Tesla's tower contraption for infinite, free energy. A century of stagnation would surely have followed us having abundant power.
Infinite, free energy? Not possible.
text removed by Moderation team.
2012/05/30 21:36:44
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
biccat wrote:You suggested that "the way we've always done it" didn't work out so well.
We've as in the human race. Have nuclear waste to dispose off. Seas of plastic waste, floating in the pacific.
Trees with no leaves, due to gasses from fossil fuels. And crude oil washed up on our beaches. Plus wars over resources, so yes well done.
Carry on as normal eh, lets see what else we can screw up.
Could be worse, it could be rainning
Very true
Time for the beach methinks, must stock up the fridge, and put children's DVDs in the motor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/30 21:39:37
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2012/05/30 21:37:27
Subject: The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
See thats your problem. We're using scientists when we should be using a million lawyers. We'll have that "law" of physics wrestled to the ground in no time!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2012/05/30 21:42:57
Subject: The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
Ribon Fox wrote:biccat, you mean improbable don't you
Unless you're aware of some way to violate the laws of physics, then no.
The same laws of physics that dictate there is background radiation of a few K, which I believe is what Tesla was harnessing. Also, nuclear fusion would like a word. These aren't infinite no, but they will last a lot longer than the human race. One until hydrogen runs out, and the other until the heat death of the universe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/30 21:44:22
2012/05/30 21:46:43
Subject: The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
dæl wrote:The same laws of physics that dictate there is background radiation of a few K, which I believe is what Tesla was harnessing. Also, nuclear fusion would like a word. These aren't infinite no, but they will last a lot longer than the human race. One until hydrogen runs out, and the other until the heat death of the universe.
So not infinite and not free? OK. I agree with you that there are non-infinite, non-free sources of energy that provide abundent power.
text removed by Moderation team.
2012/05/30 21:50:48
Subject: The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
dæl wrote:The same laws of physics that dictate there is background radiation of a few K, which I believe is what Tesla was harnessing. Also, nuclear fusion would like a word. These aren't infinite no, but they will last a lot longer than the human race. One until hydrogen runs out, and the other until the heat death of the universe.
So not infinite and not free? OK. I agree with you that there are non-infinite, non-free sources of energy that provide abundent power.
The reason Tesla never got to implement it was that they could not regulate how much power people were using and charge them, it would have been free.
And as for infinite, well if anything is going to last longer than the universe then fair enough, show me it, these will last to the very end.
2012/05/30 21:59:35
Subject: The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
Back in the day Montana Power used to invite kids to tour the dams on the Great Falls of the Missori. One of the demonstrations they had was a small Tesla coil. They used it to explain both the advantages and the drawback of the coil as a power source. Apparently they were continuing to look for a safe way to use a Tesla coil for energy.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/05/30 22:02:52
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
dæl wrote:The same laws of physics that dictate there is background radiation of a few K, which I believe is what Tesla was harnessing. Also, nuclear fusion would like a word. These aren't infinite no, but they will last a lot longer than the human race. One until hydrogen runs out, and the other until the heat death of the universe.
So not infinite and not free? OK. I agree with you that there are non-infinite, non-free sources of energy that provide abundent power.
The reason Tesla never got to implement it was that they could not regulate how much power people were using and charge them, it would have been free.
And as for infinite, well if anything is going to last longer than the universe then fair enough, show me it, these will last to the very end.
Tesla's big mistake having Westinghouse and JP Morgan as backers. As soon as they found they couldn't charge for it. They blocked his access to funds.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2012/05/30 22:06:14
Subject: The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
dæl wrote:The reason Tesla never got to implement it was that they could not regulate how much power people were using and charge them, it would have been free.
Build one yourself.
People will pay a lot of money for unlimited energy. I know a number of companies that would probably be happy to pay half of their annual electric bill for unlimited electricity.
text removed by Moderation team.
2012/05/30 22:11:47
Subject: The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
Southampton, Hampshire, England, British Isles, Europe, Earth, Sol, Sector 001
biccat wrote:
dæl wrote:The reason Tesla never got to implement it was that they could not regulate how much power people were using and charge them, it would have been free.
Build one yourself.
People will pay a lot of money for unlimited energy. I know a number of companies that would probably be happy to pay half of their annual electric bill for unlimited electricity.
Thats all well and fine to say "build one", but none of us have the level of genius that Tesla had, hell no one alive is as smart as Tesla was in his filed of studdies. Who knows what awesome things he would of came up with if he wasn't screwed over by his backers and the US goverment.
loki old fart wrote:
I can grow what I need, Build may own computer ( from parts). Repair my own vehicle. Why pay for something you don't have to.
Working minimum wage, I can afford a new t-shirt in about an hour's work. How long do you think it would take you to grow the cotton, harvest and process it, then weave it and dye it? Less than an hour?
Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION
2012/05/30 23:18:26
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
Incorporating solar panels on top of roofs of new constructions, and adding them to old ones is a good start.
We have a lot of surface area in the form of rooftops that can be used to generate electricity from solar power.. It won't work in every area, but in Texas, California, Egypt, and other sunny places across the world it can work quite well, especially for businesses and government organizations who can pay money to maintain them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/30 23:18:57
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/05/30 23:27:02
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
loki old fart wrote:
I can grow what I need, Build may own computer ( from parts). Repair my own vehicle. Why pay for something you don't have to.
Working minimum wage, I can afford a new t-shirt in about an hour's work. How long do you think it would take you to grow the cotton, harvest and process it, then weave it and dye it? Less than an hour?
Irrelevant question.
Why pay more than you need to for energy. Why pay for anything, when you can get it for free.
I mean, I can fix my own car, so I wouldn't need to pay anyone else. So why pay for anything, you can do for yourself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/30 23:29:35
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2012/05/30 23:28:37
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
loki old fart wrote:
I can grow what I need, Build may own computer ( from parts). Repair my own vehicle. Why pay for something you don't have to.
Working minimum wage, I can afford a new t-shirt in about an hour's work. How long do you think it would take you to grow the cotton, harvest and process it, then weave it and dye it? Less than an hour?
Irrelevant question.
Why pay more than you need to for energy. Why pay for anything, when you can get it for free.
You can't get anything for free, everything has to be worked for. Money represents that work, which is why you exchange it for goods and services.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/30 23:28:55
Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION
2012/05/30 23:31:32
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2012/05/30 23:33:05
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
In the example you gave of fixing your own car, you did pay money. For the parts, for the tools, and of course, your own personal time spent fixing it.
Not that I take pleasure in agreeing with Joey, but in this case, he is right.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/05/30 23:36:59
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
In the example you gave of fixing your own car, you did pay money. For the parts, for the tools, and of course, your own personal time spent fixing it.
Not that I take pleasure in agreeing with Joey, but in this case, he is right.
A few small parts, no big deal . Tools I needed for work, so no cost really I would have had to buy them anyway. Time I got lots of,
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2012/05/30 23:38:48
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
Which is like someone saying "money I got lots of".
Either way you're spending something--time, or money.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/05/30 23:39:13
Subject: Re:The impending energy crisis, and what to do about it.
Melissia wrote:Which is like someone saying "money I got lots of".
Either way you're spending something--time, or money.
Mostly time
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
