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kraken88 wrote:How can you say I don't understand evolution or history? #1 you don't know me or my educational background. 2# Evolution is not a proven science. It is a theory. Just because schools teach it, doesn't make it right. #3 I am well on my way in receiving my Education degree, so I'm sure Ill be fine teaching my son.

There's not a reputable medical body in the world which does not advocate vaccination of children to safeguard them against preventable diseases. There's also not a reputable scientific body in the world which does not accept evolution by natural selection as scientific fact; your trite and misleading phrase "it's just a theory" only underlines your scientific ignorance.

On-topic: Schools four, five and six on the list seem to be no more than amusingly quirky; seven is an average sports academy; the rest are embarrassments.

Palindrome wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:I am hoping troll. Otherwise I suspect the homeschool uniform will be a tinfoil hat...

Troll. If he were antivaccination he'd be yammering that it causes autism.

Not forgetting mercury poisoning.

Oh that too. Excellent.

EDIT:
I've know two families that home schooled.
1. The mom was an antivaccination wack job, ok mostly just a wack job. I think she had separation issues actually.
2. The boy has Assberger's (I think thats what it was called). Nice kid but picked on a lot, and needed help getting through. He's doing well now and is working towards a soccer scholarship to college.
I know another family that almost pulled their kid for a similar reason to #2 (different condition) but he hung in there and barely made it through, but he did make it.

The mercury just makes it taste better in your veins

kraken88 wrote:Trust me death from a vaccine is not a minor risk. You need to research vaccines for yourself before you pass judgment. Vaccines are deadly, its a fact. I didn't just Google this stuff, I have many friends and family in the medical field. Do me a favor and look up some statistics on how many doctors vaccinate their own kids. I will be waiting for your reply.

As somebody who works in the "medical field" I call bullgak on this. They may have told you that you do not need to run out and get the Flu Vaccine every year or something, but I can guarantee that no medical professional in their right mind has told you not to have your kid get the Polio or Hep Vaccines.

kraken88 wrote:Trust me death from a vaccine is not a minor risk. You need to research vaccines for yourself before you pass judgment. Vaccines are deadly, its a fact. I didn't just Google this stuff, I have many friends and family in the medical field. Do me a favor and look up some statistics on how many doctors vaccinate their own kids. I will be waiting for your reply.

My mum works in medicine, she practically drags us to get vaccinated (when needed, not stuff like flu shots that only old/young people need) and if we didn't go she'd jab us in our sleep.

personally, I think THIS and THIS should be all you need to read to get yourself jabbed quite quickly

kraken88 wrote:
How can you say I don't understand evolution or history? #1 you don't know me or my educational background. 2# Evolution is not a proven science. It is a theory. Just because schools teach it, doesn't make it right. #3 I am well on my way in receiving my Education degree, so I'm sure Ill be fine teaching my son.

Just because you have and education degree doesn't make you a good teacher, I had plenty of dire teachers at school who couldn't teach or control a class, granted you'll be dealing with your son, but that brings it's own problems.

as for #2

wikipedia page "scientific theory wrote: Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.[3] This is significantly different from the word “theory” in common usage, which implies that something is unproven or speculative.[5]

Not to egg this on but Kraken..your prior Air Force and looking into going active duty army. One vaccination we all get going overseas is the Anthrax seris...and the horror of the small pox jab (Never think a shot can produce a huge A$$ scab). You know and I know your going through that round again when you slap the uniform back on.

Also you know becuase I KNOW that every month is a heritage month. Not only is it Black History month but also Native American, asian american and a whole slew of others. If the Air Force EO program wasn't doing this then their WRONG.

kraken88 wrote:

JohnnoM wrote:lul wut, evolution is not science?

I said its not proven. How can you prove that we were apes once and some mutation made us self aware and intelligent?
Just because we are all made of the same substances doesn't mean we were all related.
Like I said, these are my opinions, but evolution is still a theory, that is a fact.

You don't even understand what "Theory" means in a scientific sense, clearly. This claim that it's still "Only a Theory" shows you don't even understand what science is or how it works on even the most elementary level. Hell the first result on google explains just why this stance is silly: http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/lawtheory.htm

EDIT: Someone linked a wikipedia page from a above that actually makes the point even clearer.

That aside, going over the preponderance of evidence that demonstrates the clear existence of the complex set of processes that results in the change of life over time that is explained in terms of evolution is faaaaaaaaar, far, far beyond the scope of a thread like this or even a single question. They way you're talking about it shows you don't even have the most basic grasp of even the most elementary principles of what makes evolution true. Evolution is proven, and is has been for a while a now. The evidence is not disputable. Heck you don't even need an in-depth look at the facts to see how not-an-issue the truth of evolution is, you can get all the important stuff out of series of 12 minute youtube videos.

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Easy E wrote:Those are just anecdotal observations, and in no way consistute evidence on a larger scale. I see effective education as a stool with three legs; Schools, Parents, and Kids. If one of those three legs is not standing; then the entire thing falls apart.

It's actually generally recognised that the US does very well with slow developers and high achieving kids, while the kids in the middle generally miss out on resources relatively (the US spends about as much per capita as other countries, and when you spend more on the best and worst kids, the middle misses out somewhat).

I'm not saying your experience is wrong, or that it doesn't reflect experiences in general across the US, just that whatever the difficulties US kids outside of the norm might have they're actually worse elsewhere around the world. Basically, having an education system that can account for the level of diversity you see in children and do alright by all of them is just a really hard thing to achieve.

I have a feeling post-industrial education system has something to do with a service industry rather than a manufacturing industry.
Basically focusing more on things that set you up for jobs not related to manfactoring jobs. Economics or financial sector jobs being a prime example...
I believe in that context the UK has a post-industry economy

kraken88 wrote:I'm not worried about him being a well adjusted kid, if he is anything like he is now when he grows up he will be awesome

If your kid is like he is now as an adult, then he will be a terrible person. All adults would be terrible people if they behaved as they did as children.

kraken88 wrote:Google " Ian's story" to see what a vaccine is capable of. Im not willing to risk that for my son. Sory to the op. Im done.

You mean the "Ian's Story" where the "Ian" in question had Infantile Refsum disease?

Dont many places require vaccinations to go to? Like parks and stuff?
And Vaccinations are dangerous? Sense when? Sense when is getting rid of diseases considered a bad thing?
Is this just a case of panic? Because that what the anti-vaccinations seem to me.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Dont many places require vaccinations to go to? Like parks and stuff?
And Vaccinations are dangerous? Sense when? Sense when is getting rid of diseases considered a bad thing?
Is this just a case of panic? Because that what the anti-vaccinations seem to me.

There is a very small chance of a reaction to vaccines, some of the vaccines actually caused an infection, depending on type-by I think thats gottena lot better. I think most times it does that is actually related to the flu vaccine, but I'm no expert.

Frazzled wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Dont many places require vaccinations to go to? Like parks and stuff?
And Vaccinations are dangerous? Sense when? Sense when is getting rid of diseases considered a bad thing?
Is this just a case of panic? Because that what the anti-vaccinations seem to me.

There is a very small chance of a reaction to vaccines, some of the vaccines actually caused an infection, depending on type-by I think thats gottena lot better. I think most times it does that is actually related to the flu vaccine, but I'm no expert.

None of them actually cause an infection anymore, as far as I'm aware. Vaccines either use a dead organism, an organism that is still alive but which can no longer reproduce/do anything or bits of an organism that your immune system can easily recognise. Vaccines often cause sypmtoms as your body basically thinks that it has an infection but they don't last long and its basically a nessicary side effect due to how the whole process works. A reaction is quite common, I get them a lot, but its nothing more than a mild fever that lasts a day or so. Serious reactions are rare and usually involve an allergic response to eggs (as a lot of viral vaccines are made in eggs).

Couldn't you oppose vaccination but still send your kid to school??? I mean, I'm thinking about homeschooling my kids (if I ever get any), but isn't it silly to keep them at home because of something that happens once every 6 months? On top of things, even if you disagree with the theory of evolution as a representation of the development of species, why would you want you kids to be badly informed about it? Knowing about silly theories can help you a lot, especially if you want your kid to become proficient with science...

I would never even consider home schooling my children. I will suppliment and support their education but I could never give them the breadth of learning that they will recieve in school.

Kovnik Obama wrote:Couldn't you oppose vaccination but still send your kid to school?

Most schools (public or private) require them, so unless you oppose them but get them anyway, you couldn't send the child to school.

Ahtman wrote:

Kovnik Obama wrote:Couldn't you oppose vaccination but still send your kid to school?

Most schools (public or private) require them, so unless you oppose them but get them anyway, you couldn't send the child to school.

Exactly. Parents that "oppose vaccination" are not only putting their own children at major risks, they turn them into ticking time bombs that are just waiting to become vectors that should be nowhere near the general population.

Vimes wrote:

kraken88 wrote:I said its not proven. How can you prove that we were apes once and some mutation made us self aware and intelligent?
Just because we are all made of the same substances doesn't mean we were all related.
Like I said, these are my opinions, but evolution is still a theory, that is a fact.

You should recheck what theory in science actually means, though.

the·o·ry   /ˈθiəri, ˈθɪəri/ Show Spelled[thee-uh-ree, theer-ee]
noun, plural the·o·ries.
1. a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity. Synonyms: principle, law, doctrine.

Besides, the theory of evolution actually doesn´t suggest that we were apes once, but rather that we share a common ancestor, some sort of proto-ape-but-not-quite-an-ape-actually for the lack of a better word, from which we evolved away, but apes did as well.

In other news: Even the vatican accepts evolution and does not see any conflict between christian faith and evolution, so that might be something to consider for anyone who has religious doubts about it. Then again, it does not really affect people if those people aren´t catholics. But anyway, faith and evolution don´t have to be opposites.

This is no way reflects my position on the subject matter.

If you reread your definition, "...a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct..." means that a theory is a group of related tests which points to the theory being accepted as correct. This does not mean is is truth. A very good example of this is general realitivity and quantum mechanics. While general realitivity is accepted to be true, it breaks down at the quantum level, thus is not true in all instances of the theory.

Just saying...


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hotsauceman1 wrote:Dont many places require vaccinations to go to? Like parks and stuff?
And Vaccinations are dangerous? Sense when? Sense when is getting rid of diseases considered a bad thing?
Is this just a case of panic? Because that what the anti-vaccinations seem to me.

This is not true. When I was younger, I belonged to a Christian group who did not believe in vaccinations and thus have been waivered from every vaccination given while at school. I never understood why until recently why I never took them.

Chongara wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

Kovnik Obama wrote:Couldn't you oppose vaccination but still send your kid to school?

Most schools (public or private) require them, so unless you oppose them but get them anyway, you couldn't send the child to school.

Exactly. Parents that "oppose vaccination" are not only putting their own children at major risks, they turn them into ticking time bombs that are just waiting to become vectors that should be nowhere near the general population.

Ah, oki, well, it makes sense. Anyhow, don't we have at least a century of vaccinations to give us a history of the bad side effects? Even with medical history being private, I'm sure that there would be some way of tracking pretty accuratly the problematic cases?

Vaccinations are like any other medicine, sometimes they can have negative side affects, though these cases are the exceptions and not the rule. Maybe there's such a thing as receiving too many at once. Some diseases are too dangerous not to be vaccinated, but you don't need to be vaccinated against every disease out there.

Crazy people who need to shelter their children from those 'dangerous ideas' like evolution and vaccination programmes are the main reason to question the wisdom of allowing home education at all. It's scary the 'education' some children receive.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Crazy people who need to shelter their children from those 'dangerous ideas' like evolution and vaccination programmes are the main reason to question the wisdom of allowing home education at all. It's scary the 'education' some children receive.

Well, if they have crazy parents, they're likely already fethed up before they even hit the classrooms, so on the positive side, that's a few less burned-out teachers...

Lets just hope none of the sheltered kids develop telekinetic powers.

Zyllos wrote: A very good example of this is general realitivity and quantum mechanics. While general realitivity is accepted to be true, it breaks down at the quantum level, thus is not true in all instances of the theory.

General relativity doesn't work at a quantum level, neither does causality, so are Newton's laws of motion untrue then? If Relativity was untrue then we got really lucky with calculating the time difference on GPS satellites. Seriously, people should really open their eyes a bit and maybe they might realise that the incredibly complex mathematics that underpin these "theories" don't allow much in the way of error.

kraken88 wrote:Trust me death from a vaccine is not a minor risk. You need to research vaccines for yourself before you pass judgment. Vaccines are deadly, its a fact. I didn't just Google this stuff, I have many friends and family in the medical field. Do me a favor and look up some statistics on how many doctors vaccinate their own kids. I will be waiting for your reply.

Interesting. So... where are all the millions of dead kids from vaccines these past hundred years? I know since vaccines were mandated, hundreds of millions of kids have been vaccinated in America alone. This has saved millions of kids from preventable and potentially lethal childhood diseases like polio. So... how man dead kids from vaccines? A dozen? A hundred? Please tell me, I find myself intensely curious.

Evolution is not a proven science. It is a theory.

So is gravity. Want to jump out a 20th story window on the off-chance the theory is wrong?

EVERY bit of evidence we've found indicates that life started simple and evolved into more complex forms. There is NO evidence of ANY other mechanism for the development of life.


Besides... I take a bit of extra refuge knowing the creator was omnipotent and onmiscent enough to set the whole universe in motion in an instant, so that it would inevitiably create life intelligent enough to figure out how it was done. Now THAT'S some foresight and power! Just BANG and off it goes!

As opposed to "Okay, here's the light, gotta keep it separate from the dark. Now where's that earth and water at, I hope it didn't get mixed up...."


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kraken88 wrote:I said its not proven. How can you prove that we were apes once...

Three letters for you. D.N.A.

kraken88 wrote:
I said its not proven. How can you prove that we were apes once...

My inlaws?

kraken88 wrote:Trust me death from a vaccine is not a minor risk. You need to research vaccines for yourself before you pass judgment. Vaccines are deadly, its a fact. I didn't just Google this stuff, I have many friends and family in the medical field. Do me a favor and look up some statistics on how many doctors vaccinate their own kids. I will be waiting for your reply.

Wait, what?

I'm serious, what?

Even if it contains pathogens, they have been weakened to the point where you will only get mild symptoms of the actual illness, and in return your immune system has optimized to combat the disease if it should strike again. Deathly ill you say? Children are prone to exaggeration. If you have friends in the medical profession, what field? If they are people such as busboys or nurses, they won't be specifically trained and do not have a full comprehension of this. An immunologist, however, is fully aware of the risks involved with it. It has been refined from the days of a small pinprick topped with pus to a fully developed vaccine.

To quote you, you need to research vaccines before you pass judgement.

kraken88 wrote:Google " Ian's story" to see what a vaccine is capable of. Im not willing to risk that for my son. Sory to the op. Im done.

I assume you're talking about the Hep-B shot and not the kid from India or the teen with testitcular cancer.

I have a surprise for you. I've had that same shot. So has every other person who's worked in a restaurant in St. Louis in the past 20 years. And look at that, we're not dropping like flies.

ONE statistical outlier does not invalidate MILLIONS of proven results.

It's like expecting a Tau Firewarrior to beat a Demon Prince in close combat EVERY TIME because you saw a battle report on the internet where it happened this one time...

Do universities now require proof of immunization as well? I think so but...its been a looooooong while.

Frazzled wrote:Do universities now require proof of immunization as well? I think so but...its been a looooooong while.

Yes.