Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yes right. And I think to an extent that still goes on. I've never had the inclination to do so myself, but know of quite a few guys who have cast up their own stuff. Not to sell (well, they might pass on a few bits and pieces to a friend for small change), but just to make mass conversions, perhaps a different type of marine shoulder pad or something, possible.

On the other hand I have to be honest in that I've never seen so many large scale re-casters easily accessible on the internet. On the one hand it is almost certainly a sign of the times we live in - the global nature of e-commerce making this kind of thing possible, when it wouldn't have been even 10 or 15 years ago. And its exacerbated by the re-casters being able to often produce the item at a cheaper price, and with a higher production quality. The latter in particular I find galling, but all kind of phrases spring to mind regarding GW's relationship to this issue; reaping what you sow, and making your own bed, to name but two.

To an extent I admire the moral standpoint of the OP, and the others in thread who have piped up saying they will do the same and return a cheaper model, and replace it with an official one that could well have production faults. But in the grander scheme of things, and in the cold reality of the marketplace, and I'm not sure that many people would do the same thing.

Yeah, the quality thing is pretty crazy. I like that in the legal area they ask who wants a badly-cast recast, yet it seems the most hassle-free miniatures out there are the recasters.

The only time I've used recasters are for FW conversion bits for models such as the wraithseer or Warp Hunter. I am heavily into trading miniatures, and therefore getting the base models will cost me only other miniatures and a tiny bit of shipping. Instead of offering just the bits to turn a stock standard wraith lord or falcon into a FW piece, they want to sell me the base model at full retail + 15% shipping on that cost. I can go onto a reseller, get the wraithseer pieces for 4 dollars and trade for the base model. Instead of spending 34 GBP + 15% shipping, it only costs me $10 + old models I'm not going to use.
The moment FW would offer the conversion bits alone, I'd drop those recasting scumbags like a bad habit, but when FW is asking me to pay that much for a model I can already get + 4-5 resin bits, I find it VERY easy to look past.

spackledgoat wrote: I'd drop those recasting scumbags like a bad habit, but when FW is asking me to pay that much for a model I can already get + 4-5 resin bits, I find it VERY easy to look past.

So you knowingly shop with recasters and then call them scumbags?

To be honest, this thread is the best kind of free advertising for the recasters. I didn't even know they existed until this thread and since this thread started the inventory on the site has been flying off of the virtual shelves. So honestly, if your of a moral position against recasting, you should probably just stop posting to this thread.

Moral objection or not, I have to admit that $15 Space Marine Drop Pods and Nercon Scythes for $18 were sorely temptimg.

brettz123 wrote:

spackledgoat wrote: I'd drop those recasting scumbags like a bad habit, but when FW is asking me to pay that much for a model I can already get + 4-5 resin bits, I find it VERY easy to look past.

So you knowingly shop with recasters and then call them scumbags?

It's like you, me and everyone else looks past work conditions at many huge manufacturers because the quality of life we have would be much more expensive (if not unaffordable) if everyone was given welfare state style work conditions, regulation and wages. I recognize that those who were contracted to build my computer is a scumbag, but such it is.

spackledgoat wrote:

brettz123 wrote:

spackledgoat wrote: I'd drop those recasting scumbags like a bad habit, but when FW is asking me to pay that much for a model I can already get + 4-5 resin bits, I find it VERY easy to look past.

So you knowingly shop with recasters and then call them scumbags?

It's like you, me and everyone else looks past work conditions at many huge manufacturers because the quality of life we have would be much more expensive (if not unaffordable) if everyone was given welfare state style work conditions, regulation and wages. I recognize that those who were contracted to build my computer is a scumbag, but such it is.

Except GW prices aren't high because of their labor costs and we all know it. And the majority of GW production is automated(injection molding that is). The labor is mostly packaging and sorting which are unskilled positions where they can pay minimum wage. Finecast may cost a little more to run, but that line isn't near the scale of the plastics.

The things I buy from recasters are generally things that are either OOP or that are insanely overpriced bits on feebay.

Aerethan wrote:

spackledgoat wrote:

brettz123 wrote:

spackledgoat wrote: I'd drop those recasting scumbags like a bad habit, but when FW is asking me to pay that much for a model I can already get + 4-5 resin bits, I find it VERY easy to look past.

So you knowingly shop with recasters and then call them scumbags?

It's like you, me and everyone else looks past work conditions at many huge manufacturers because the quality of life we have would be much more expensive (if not unaffordable) if everyone was given welfare state style work conditions, regulation and wages. I recognize that those who were contracted to build my computer is a scumbag, but such it is.

Except GW prices aren't high because of their labor costs and we all know it. And the majority of GW production is automated(injection molding that is). The labor is mostly packaging and sorting which are unskilled positions where they can pay minimum wage. Finecast may cost a little more to run, but that line isn't near the scale of the plastics.

The things I buy from recasters are generally things that are either OOP or that are insanely overpriced bits on feebay.

Oh, I wasn't talking about GW labor practices. I bet they are light-years above the foxcomm style operations. I was merely stating that we justify doing business with unscrupulous individuals all the time in order to get all the things we want. This is similar to how I choose to do business with recasters when it becomes difficult for me to justify paying FW prices on GW models.

There are so many overpriced models on ebay that I'm amazed the recasters haven't jumped on. The kneeling steel legion sniper goes for $50 a pop, and yet I've never seen anyone that was blatently a recaster selling it.

Remember kids; downloading stuff for free off the internet funds terrorism.

And buying better quality casts in a more reliable material from a recaster POISONS KITTENS. Edit: And no-one will want to play with you, because you'll smell of Dirty.

Honestly, I wouldn't consider a recast over an original if the quality was comparable or worse on the recast, as you might expect it to be. The fact that the ones I've seen have been significantly *better* on the other hand...

There are a few Finecast models being recast, and from what I've seen the recasts are perfect, where Finecast is pretty much only perfect if you roll snake eyes.

winterdyne wrote:Remember kids; downloading stuff for free off the internet funds terrorism.

And buying better quality casts in a more reliable material from a recaster POISONS KITTENS. Edit: And no-one will want to play with you, because you'll smell of Dirty.

Honestly, I wouldn't consider a recast over an original if the quality was comparable or worse on the recast, as you might expect it to be. The fact that the ones I've seen have been significantly *better* on the other hand...

Best of all, buying currently available products from a recaster harms GW, which is a good thing!

Thanks again to the OP for posting the name of the Ebay seller in question. That was a good find. I got my Warp Spiders and 100 bag of 25mm round bases this week and they look just fine. The Spiders are a very good copy, and if I did not know were I got them from, I would never be able to tell them from recent metal castings. Once they are painted and based of course, even poor casts are very hard for most people to detect, so these will be undetectable. I will certainly be doing business with this seller again. It is a pitty they do not make older models though as most of my armies consist of those. We need a China based high volume output version of Mac-Ace!

TR

The only thing I will say is be aware that recasts in metal (especially from China and other countries that don't have such stringent toy safety laws) will often contain lead.

Don't chew your minis, and wash your hands after handling them unpainted. Also be aware that the metal will be softer when working than GW's white metal alloy.

I've cast over a 1000 lead figures and I'm okay.... at least that's what the voices tell me.

Once they are base coated you should be fine. Just be extra careful if your filing or shaving them. Those tiny particles are easy to inhale or ingest. It's really a big concern around children, and not so much of an issue for adults.

It's a hobby a gave up once I had children.

Regarding the counterfeit dispute - it isn't quite as easy as you might think:

http://reviews.ebay.com/No-PayPal-Protection-for-eBay-for-Counterfeit-Items?ugid=10000000013674782

Once they actually verify that you have a counterfeit - before Paypal will issue the refund they will also request proof of destruction of the product (was a big news story a couple years back regarding a "counterfeit" violin which after it was destroyed was actually shown to be real). Generally this requires photographic evidence of the product in a no longer useable state. They have to do this in order to remain in the clear legally as it is illegal to possess counterfeit goods as well as to sell them (and ship and manufacture them). So - no free models sitting about.

In the end though, this is really a better topic to consider before you purchase - not after the fact. It is also pretty well pointless to report it to GW, eBay or Paypal. The Chinese vendors will at the absolute worst have to create a new account. GW can not touch them over there. eBay and Paypal are well aware of what is going on, but largely do not care (they only take action when it is put in front of them directly, but don't bother putting anything in place to prevent the listings from popping back up the next day under a different account).

If you do bring it to GW's attention, they can actually legally compel you to return the counterfeited item to them and it is unlikely that you will get anything in return. That is the way the laws are written.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of recasters have gotten smarter. Instead of actually providing their location as China or Russia - they list the location of a relative or similar arrangement in a more friendly location. I have purchased a couple items from US locations which shipped from both Russia and China in the past year or so.

There are also recasts where there are zero mold lines, even some pieces are pre casted together if they dont intrude on the painting parts.

Geez it saves money, cleaning time.