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Kanluwen wrote:
This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read here on Dakka. I'm kind of disappointed that it came from you, Aerethan.

For what it's worth, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate on this topic. Do I actually think you can price out counterfeits? not really as the only overhead they have is the price of rubber and resin.

It's fairly well known on Dakka that I recast. I don't show it, I don't sell it, I don't name what pieces. I do it to save myself a buck here or there, and the piece has to be rare enough to cover the cost and hassle of the process.

I also don't tell people how to do it, or even encourage it. If you need 10 of something and the bit is $2.50 online, then the $25 is WAY cheaper than making more yourself. Now when that same bit is $8 each it starts to look more enticing, but only if you have already spent the time and money to learn how.


Back to the main topic: If you are morally against OWNING pirated models, then report them to GW and see what they offer you in place of them. That is what GW wants you to do. The other option is to see if Paypal will reimburse you for them since they are illegal and were being marketed as legitimate.

Aerethan wrote:
Back to the main topic: If you are morally against OWNING pirated models, then report them to GW and see what they offer you in place of them.

A large Finecost brick for Astorath, I keep meaning to take a pic of the one at the local FLGS. Who cares if it's a recast, it's metal, and inexpensive. If you want a guarantee on a genuine product you should buy one still in a blister. Last I heard they haven't resorted to counterfeiting those yet.

derek wrote:

Aerethan wrote:
Back to the main topic: If you are morally against OWNING pirated models, then report them to GW and see what they offer you in place of them.

A large Finecost brick for Astorath, I keep meaning to take a pic of the one at the local FLGS. Who cares if it's a recast, it's metal, and inexpensive. If you want a guarantee on a genuine product you should buy one still in a blister. Last I heard they haven't resorted to counterfeiting those yet.

That would be both hilarious and almost impossible to tell the difference if they did that.

Aerethan wrote:
Back to the main topic: If you are morally against OWNING pirated models, then report them to GW and see what they offer you in place of them. That is what GW wants you to do. The other option is to see if Paypal will reimburse you for them since they are illegal and were being marketed as legitimate.

Having actually been in the unlucky position of having to deal with this kind of situation, what happened was this:

I bought a Thunderbolt Pilot off eBay. When I noticed afterwards the seller had the exact same picture, exact same listing, etc after it had sold--I started to get suspicious. When I contacted him, some things didn't add up (he claimed he "bought them from a hobby shop that went out of business") so I then forwarded the communications, etc on to GW.

They thanked me for it, but since the Thunderbolt Pilot was no longer in production--they told me to just keep it and paint it up, but not to try to sell it on. That point ended up being moot anyways as when I went to strip the paint off of it the thing lost all detail and became a shapeless blob that I threw out.

I find that interesting. A chinese site(which was recently taken down) did OOP metals like Archaon on foot(and for only $18) so GW's stance would be to keep them?

Makes me kinda wish someone would recast the Gamesday Slann.

I imagine that if you bought something thinking it was legit there would be room for concern. My biggest flags on recasts are OOP or LE stuff that is being sold en mass.

Not so bad I just got some mark 2 "forge world" marines from a guy off of ebay and people I've shown them to since they are still unpainted have come to a general consensus they are fakes. They didn't lose to much or detail and like yours they came out alright I wouldn't lose any sleep over it because well heck you got a new fig for cheap. And if people have a problem with Piracy than why did they name it after the coolest job ever?

Aerethan wrote:I find that interesting. A chinese site(which was recently taken down) did OOP metals like Archaon on foot(and for only $18) so GW's stance would be to keep them?

Makes me kinda wish someone would recast the Gamesday Slann.

I imagine that if you bought something thinking it was legit there would be room for concern. My biggest flags on recasts are OOP or LE stuff that is being sold en mass.

I think it's more that it was done "in good faith" and that I cooperated fully.

Plus I shelled out friggin' $50 for that damn Thunderbolt Pilot and the guy was sympathetic to that.

Kanluwen wrote:

Aerethan wrote:I find that interesting. A chinese site(which was recently taken down) did OOP metals like Archaon on foot(and for only $18) so GW's stance would be to keep them?

Makes me kinda wish someone would recast the Gamesday Slann.

I imagine that if you bought something thinking it was legit there would be room for concern. My biggest flags on recasts are OOP or LE stuff that is being sold en mass.

I think it's more that it was done "in good faith" and that I cooperated fully.

Plus I shelled out friggin' $50 for that damn Thunderbolt Pilot and the guy was sympathetic to that.

It's nice to hear about the rarely seen "human" side of GW. Glad they came through for you.

narkuk wrote:Because these are counterfeit and because of the way PayPal works you can order from the recaster and when it arrives tell PayPal it's a fake and get your money back. Just open a dispute you will win because it's true and they should not be selling knockoffs even if they are better quality than fine cast.

Free models and a wrist slap for the recaster

Everybody wins except the guy breaking the law !

I can think of at least one other loser in this cunning plan as well.

The fact of the matter is absolutely no business can compete with counterfeits of their own products. If enough people buy counterfeits, it will kill Warhammer, the end.

I have a real problem with people selling counterfeit models and trying to pass them off as the real thing. Of course, people selling counterfeit models who do not hide the fact that they are recasts (a bit like all those markets in Bali or Thailand or wherever), that's a different story.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:If enough people buy counterfeits, it will kill Warhammer, the end.

I don't think it's wide-spread enough for that to happen any time soon, though there is something to be said about people turning to recasters to avoid the endless GW price increases.

I'm not sure I would care much about counterfeits that are of OOP minis, as the very fact that they are "out of production" shows that GW is not interested on making money on those sculpts any more.

Active market minis is another story.

All that aside, back to the OP...

ellis_esquire wrote:Hi all, wasn't sure if there was an ongoing thread regarding counterfeit but I think I've been had. Its hard to say but reading about fine-cast shenanigans I saw something about Chinese sellers. Did a quick search on my seller caomao1122
and found this thread. Initiate paranoia.

I just bought Canis Wolfborn and Astorath the grim from him. I got the models but now am starting to wonder if they are fake. They feel as lead should, weight and texturewise, and the detail appears GW lead level, but I dont have any other version of same models to compare to. The only thing that looks suspicious to me is that on Canis' tabs there is no "Games Workshop" print.

Here they are. If anyone has the models or knows what to look for then I'd appreciate your input...

Caomao1122 is a KNOWN recaster. I actually bought about $100 worth of metal mini's off him, and only then did a search on his background.
However, I had a little word with him. I asked him if they were recasts, and he actually told me they were. ( )
So I got my money back, he hadn't shipped the models yet, and he went and ripped off a bunch more people!
It was a happy ending...
THE END

Ouze wrote:
Indeed, in my experience there is one specific Chinese gentleman that sells counterfeits that can only be distinguished from the real thing by the fact they ship for free, in a timely manner, and the quality is perfect. No way that's real FW resin, amirite?

I love that guy. His Contemptors are great.

I did find Contemptor bodies for $21 >.> sadly they don't offer the autocannon arms yet otherwise I'd have bought 2 sets.

Just thought i should add that sending your illegal recasts to GW or FW will not always result in you getting replacement models, i know this first hand.

Hi all,

Wow what a shed load of responses. Much appreciated all - Ive opened a paypal dispute, so well see what happens....

Their quality is arguably better than my store bought eavy metal. I think your fine.

narkuk wrote:Because these are counterfeit and because of the way PayPal works you can order from the recaster and when it arrives tell PayPal it's a fake and get your money back. Just open a dispute you will win because it's true and they should not be selling knockoffs even if they are better quality than fine cast.

Free models and a wrist slap for the recaster

Everybody wins except the guy breaking the law !

No that is not how paypal works. You cannot simply tell them something is counterfeit and get your money back. Good try though.

Though it's funny, that in their "Counterfeit and Peer-to-Peer Sharing" section of their legal mumbo jumbo, GW specifically states that they DO NOT produce electronic copies of their rulebooks and codicies, and that any electronic copies should be considered counterfeit's and can be legally pursued (to include imprisonment).

Codex: Space Marines for iPad IS A FRAUD!

@Cottonjaw: ZOMG, you should totally screenshot that and make a meme out of it.

leohart wrote:@Cottonjaw: ZOMG, you should totally screenshot that and make a meme out of it.

2 reasons why no.
1. Forced memes aren't funny. EVER!
2. No.

Just make sure you dont payid a lot for them, and dont spread it to the winds... The chinese guy produce good things in miniature terms, if those are the chinese recasts, you have not lost so much (except for the thrust in your regular seller).

The Dwarf Wolf wrote: (except for the thrust in your regular seller).

That... is very disturbing to think about..

brettz123 wrote:

narkuk wrote:Because these are counterfeit and because of the way PayPal works you can order from the recaster and when it arrives tell PayPal it's a fake and get your money back. Just open a dispute you will win because it's true and they should not be selling knockoffs even if they are better quality than fine cast.

Free models and a wrist slap for the recaster

Everybody wins except the guy breaking the law !

No that is not how paypal works. You cannot simply tell them something is counterfeit and get your money back. Good try though.

Actually, it is. Paypal has a policy that covers counterfeit goods. They will forward him instructions on how to establish authenticity (or lack thereof) and will refund the purchase if it can be shown to be a counterfeit (often they will ask you to destroy the counterfeit goods).

narkuk wrote:Because these are counterfeit and because of the way PayPal works you can order from the recaster and when it arrives tell PayPal it's a fake and get your money back. Just open a dispute you will win because it's true and they should not be selling knockoffs even if they are better quality than fine cast.

Free models and a wrist slap for the recaster

Everybody wins except the guy breaking the law !

Quick, someone PM me a few of these Chinese Dealers Ebay names and I'll try this.

Worst case sceanrio I get some cheap models. Best case Scenario I get FREE models.

Thanks for the heads up!
I was looking to pick up some more Eldar Warp Spiders to flesh out a unit in my army. I was also pleased to see he's a cheap source for buying plastic slotta bases in bulk. (when you buy mostly seond hand figures like I do, that's aways a problem) I just placed an order with this seller. If the order goes through without a hitch and he ships quickly, he will go on my "favorite Ebay sellers" list. Support your local recaster!

Sadly, the amount of busines I do with him will be limited as he really does not sell that much of the older OOP stuff I prefer. We need "mac-Ace" back!

TR

Grimtuff wrote:

Clthomps wrote:It's a recast. Not a bad one but still not genuine. You can tell by the missing tabs for venting and some slight loss of detail.
Although that being said gw has been know to recast its own sculpt if a mold breaks or what not. So I would not worry about it unless you paid a lot for it.

Er, what missing tabs? What loss of detail? As I'm seeing the former and not seeing the latter.

The tabs that are missing are the venting tabs, they carve them into the molds to avoid bubbles in certain areas most people assume they are flash. A new metal model will always have a few, and since most recasters do not know what they are for they get removed with the mold lines prior to making a cast.

Before you ask: The Rolex you bought in Hong Kong for 15$ is a fake as well and Rolex won't exchange it for a real one

ellis_esquire wrote:Hi all,

Wow what a shed load of responses. Much appreciated all - Ive opened a paypal dispute, so well see what happens....

Well, if its any consolation that guy looks better than the 'official' resin model I saw a couple of months ago. This one doesn't have bingo wings for instance.

It's amazing how the world has changed. Back in the day I knew people that were really good casters that could take a GW metal and using pressure pots and excellent molds, be able to create resin miniatures. They'd test cast some minis molded from GW stuff on the way to learning how to sculpt and cast their own stuff, checking how well their molds could capture detail.
They got really good and in somecases were able to improve on what GW did with the result being, someone could only tell the difference between a painted miniature they cast and a GW miniature was the lighter weight of the copy.
That being said, they never tried to sell anything or go into high scale production for themselves since they just wanted to use the copies to gauge their skill at casting resins.
Nowadays, if it's metal, it might be a recast.