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pretre wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:Tempest Wrath may also become a favorite power

I love TW. One of my RP got the nickname 'Jarl of Tempests' after he took down 3 or 4 DE skimmers in one game with it. Including a flat-out one with Haemy and Wyches.

And if it works on Flyers

Hadn't seen that. Neat.

Njal's Vengful Tornado and Chail Lighting are going to clear the Skies. I need a Power Armored Version of Njal now.

Anpu42 wrote:Njal's Vengful Tornado and Chail Lighting are going to clear the Skies. I need a Power Armored Version of Njal now.

In the past, I only ran PA Njal. I have two of them (converted the other to be a bit different). I love that model.

Mine is actualy a Coverson of the Librarian from the new Space Hulk

The problem is that you won't get to "pick" your psychic powers. You have to role to see which ones you get at the beginning of the game.

Grugknuckle wrote:The problem is that you won't get to "pick" your psychic powers. You have to role to see which ones you get at the beginning of the game.

If you go for the ones in the main rulebook. You have to give up all your current powers for X amount in the rule book, the X depends on how good a psyker the dude is.

No one is going to play Njal with a few random main rulebook powers I bet...



Edited to add - NINJA POWERRRRRRrrrrr.....

Grugknuckle wrote:The problem is that you won't get to "pick" your psychic powers. You have to role to see which ones you get at the beginning of the game.

Not if you take the ones from C:SW.

Grugknuckle wrote:The problem is that you won't get to "pick" your psychic powers. You have to role to see which ones you get at the beginning of the game.

Well you can roll and then go for the default one if you don't like the result. The default one for Divination is already one of the best.

Yeah, I would not take random powers for Njal ever. He has like 8 powers as it stands, many of which are better than the ones in the book. The 100 pt Rune Priest though...

magodedisco wrote:

Grugknuckle wrote:The problem is that you won't get to "pick" your psychic powers. You have to role to see which ones you get at the beginning of the game.

Well you can roll and then go for the default one if you don't like the result. The default one for Divination is already one of the best.

Yeah, I would not take random powers for Njal ever. He has like 8 powers as it stands, many of which are better than the ones in the book. The 100 pt Rune Priest though...

That was my thought to, but only a second Rune Priest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
6e Grey Hunters

As for how 6th looks to effect Grey Hunters I will use my normal Grey Hunter Packs.
I run 10 man Foot-Slogging Grey Hunters.

Plasma Packs
o 1x Grey Wolf that I act as a Sergeant to anchor the Pack around. I have him equipped with Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun, Power Fist and Wolf Standard.
o 1x Grey Hunter with Plasma Pistol, Bolt Gun and CCW.
o 2x Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistol, Plasma Gun and CCW.
o 6x Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun and CCW.

5th Edition: This has been and always will be my Core Troop Choice; I even field it when I am running a Loganwing. The primary purpose was just to be mid-ranged fire support. I would play the two of them in some cover the center of the board, hunker down and just shoot up anything that got close. The 2 Plasma Guns gave me a 24” kill most anything weapon and the bolt guns kept everyone’s head down. The only threat I really had was from Nids. There was no need to move them except near then end to advance and take objectives as that would reduce my “Zone of Control”.
The Wolf Standard was actually my primary Defensive Gear; if you not the wording “In the next Assault Phase”. So I would at the end of My Assault Phase I look and see if any that Grey Hunter Squad was likely to be assaulted, if so I would “Pop the Banner” so to speak. This would give my opponent a choice of assaulting me right then and there and watch me reroll all of those “1s” or wait another turn before assaulting my position.
The Power Fist was there just to take out High Toughness and Anti-Tank work, that and the model in my 1st Pack just looked cool.
Why no Transports or Drop Pods you may ask? With the Local Meta we tended to play Gunlines with some maneuvering. Once I got some vehicles that changed a only a little for them. Also if I added a Wolf Guard I could not take the 10th Grey Wolf and the 2nd Plasma Gun. I have tried them in a Land Raider Crusader and/or Redeemer. Those attempts have not gone bad, but they could have been better, so they remained Foot Sluggers.

6th Edition: I think they will remain my Core. I might Mechanize them now though; with the ability to move and fore both Plasma Guns at 24” along with the 2 Storm Bolters. When the Rhino Explodes I will then have a nice 5+ Cover Save Crater to hide in. However when I get to where I am going they will get out and hold that objective. I might also Pod them in with the 24” Plasma Guns.
As for Assaulting; the Power Fist now has a more important job, defeating AP2 and with the new Assaulting Vehicle Rules it should have a better chance of killing them especially with the Wolf Standard.

Melta Packs
o 1x Grey Wolf that I act as a Sergeant to anchor the Pack around. I have him equipped with Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun, Power Fist and Wolf Standard.
o 1x Grey Hunter with Plasma Pistol, Bolt Gun and CCW.
o 2x Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistol, Melta-Gun and CCW.
o 6x Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun and CCW.

5th Edition: These are my tank hunters, and 2nd line Core. I do tend to be more mobile with them as range was not that big of an issue. After IA 11 came out I started to attach one to Redmaw to use as “Heavy Scouts”. In this role I would also try to attach a WGBL, Wolf Priest and/or a Wolf Guard to them. I did not find them as effective as my Plasma Gun Packs, but they still did well.

6th: Edition: Oddly enough they are going to become my 3rd line Core behind the Flamer Packs. With the Plasma Pack now getting a boost in Anti-Armor I will be pressed to find uses for them. I will probably keep adding the to Redmaw so when I am Running my “Winter Wolves” list.

Flamer Packs
o 1x Grey Wolf that I act as a Sergeant to anchor the Pack around. I have him equipped with Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun, Power Fist and Wolf Standard.
o 1x Grey Hunter with Plasma Pistol, Bolt Gun and CCW.
o 2x Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistol, Flamer and CCW.
o 6x Grey Hunters with Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun and CCW.

5th Edition: These are my 3rd Line Packs. With the limited range and the need to get into assault range they usually got replaced by Blood Claws when I had the points. Other than that they worked ok most of the time.

6th Edition: They just became my 2nd line Grey Hunters. I am most likely going to use them to hold objectives on my side of the table. With the Wolf Standard and 2 Flamers, Snap Fire just got a lot better. They are also going to most likely to Wolf Guard for Moral purposes and an extra “Gun on the Line”.

It will probably take a few game to see if my thoughts are right or not.

I've read rumours that apparently acute senses allows out-flanking re-rolls. Which sucks IMHO.



Well here is my favourite list (at 1750pts), thankfully it doesn't look like I will need to change it much for 6th.

HQ - Rune Priest - Chooser of the Slain, Meltabombs - Living Lightning, Tempests Wrath - 115pts

Elites - Wolf Guard - 147pts

Troops - 8 Grey Hunters - Meltagun, Wolf Standard - Rhino - 170pts
- Led by Wolf Guard - Combi-melta, Power Fist

Troops - 9 Grey Hunters - Meltagun, Wolf Standard - Rhino - 185pts
- Led by Wolf Guard - Combi-melta, Thunder Hammer

Troops - 5 Grey Hunters - Flamer - Razorback w/ Twin-linked Assault Cannon - 170pts
- Led by Wolf Guard - 2 Lightning Claws

Troops - 5 Grey Hunters - Flamer - Razorback w/ Twin-linked Assault Cannon - 150pts
- Led by Wolf Guard - Power Weapon

Fast Attack - 2 Land Speeder Typhoons - 180pts

Fast Attack - 2 Land Speeder Typhoons - 180pts

Fast Attack - 3 Land Speeder Tornados - 3x Multi-melta, 2x Heavy Flamer - 200pts

Heavy Support - Vindicator - Siege Shield - 125pts

Heavy Support - Vindicator - Siege Shield - 125pts


With the greater importance of Psykers, the Rune Priests is as powerful as ever.
Wolf Guard should remain useful for morale, anti-tank and preventing monstrous creatures, who are likely to be more mobile and common IMHO.
Grey Hunters have, if anything, got better as they can now Defensive-Fire and Counter-charge.
The vehicles however are what I'm worried about, with the introduction of hull points making them more fragile. Whilst a jink save helps Speeders somewhat, hull points could really hurt. Then again, Rhinos/Razorbacks and Land Speeders are probably so fragile that they'd be destroyed before losing all their hull points anyway, so should remain solid inclusions in the army.
Vindicators however look like they could struggle. These guys will face a lot of firepower and with hull points, they could really wither under it.

Overall, it doesn't look like I'll need to make many changes.
Anti-air could be crucial and it could be interesting to see where it's available, although I'd really rather not have to resort to Missile Long Fangs.
The Grey Hunters Meltaguns will probably be swapped for Plasma Guns, with the reduced power of AV14 and increased durability of termies and rapid fire supporting the latter.
Depending on how Hull Points work out in-game, the vindicators may need to be dropped, which would suck as I love these guys and am not sure what would be a suitable replacement.
Sadly, Hull Points also renders the Blood Claw, Wolf Priest and Redeemer team that I like unlikely to be worth it.
Wolf Priests leading Grey Hunter squads seems like an interesting possibility though.

The changes in 6th so far seems to favour an infantry-heavy - possibly rhino-rush - list for Space Wolves, which admittedly does suit the guys. I'm just annoyed it all seems to be further encouraging shooty armies and long-fangs...

Grey Hunters with a WG in termi armor are going to be indestructible for one turn of CC.

Due to the idea that wound allocation has to go from nearest to farthest and if the WG is in BTB with an enemy its rather hard to say he couldn't be the closest one. As such (since he is the only guy with a 2+ save) you can start giving him all the wounds saving on a 2+ (even power weapon wounds). Now if you had popped the banner he gets to reroll all failed armor saves for that one combat. Nothing wrong with a 2+ rerollable.

Jayden63 wrote:Grey Hunters with a WG in termi armor are going to be indestructible for one turn of CC.

Due to the idea that wound allocation has to go from nearest to farthest and if the WG is in BTB with an enemy its rather hard to say he couldn't be the closest one. As such (since he is the only guy with a 2+ save) you can start giving him all the wounds saving on a 2+ (even power weapon wounds). Now if you had popped the banner he gets to reroll all failed armor saves for that one combat. Nothing wrong with a 2+ rerollable.

Agreed.

If the meta goes anti-mech and rhinos really are hurt by hull points, then 10-man with a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour foot-slogging could be the way to go IMHO.
HOWEVER, wound allocation goes from the lowest-AP to the highest, so any AP2 or less weapons will target the Wolf Guard if he's in front. So it might be worthwhile to try and keep him 3rd closest or with a Storm Shield.

Just Dave wrote:I've read rumours that apparently acute senses allows out-flanking re-rolls. Which sucks IMHO.

Wolf Scouts. I have a 5/6 chance of coming in on the side I want. Oh now I have a 35/36 chance of coming in on the side I want.

Just Dave wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Grey Hunters with a WG in termi armor are going to be indestructible for one turn of CC.

Due to the idea that wound allocation has to go from nearest to farthest and if the WG is in BTB with an enemy its rather hard to say he couldn't be the closest one. As such (since he is the only guy with a 2+ save) you can start giving him all the wounds saving on a 2+ (even power weapon wounds). Now if you had popped the banner he gets to reroll all failed armor saves for that one combat. Nothing wrong with a 2+ rerollable.

Agreed.

If the meta goes anti-mech and rhinos really are hurt by hull points, then 10-man with a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour foot-slogging could be the way to go IMHO.
HOWEVER, wound allocation goes from the lowest-AP to the highest, so any AP2 or less weapons will target the Wolf Guard if he's in front. So it might be worthwhile to try and keep him 3rd closest or with a Storm Shield.

I just see my 9 man GH with WG in a drop pod, become an 8 man GH with Termi WG in a drop pod. I loose 1 guy and gain potentially tremendous staying power.

pretre wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I've read rumours that apparently acute senses allows out-flanking re-rolls. Which sucks IMHO.

Wolf Scouts. I have a 5/6 chance of coming in on the side I want. Oh now I have a 35/36 chance of coming in on the side I want.

Isn't it 4/6 in 5e? And now it is 4/6+(2/6*4/6) = 32/36

Jayden63 wrote:Grey Hunters with a WG in termi armor are going to be indestructible for one turn of CC.

Due to the idea that wound allocation has to go from nearest to farthest and if the WG is in BTB with an enemy its rather hard to say he couldn't be the closest one. As such (since he is the only guy with a 2+ save) you can start giving him all the wounds saving on a 2+ (even power weapon wounds). Now if you had popped the banner he gets to reroll all failed armor saves for that one combat. Nothing wrong with a 2+ rerollable.

I don't think wound allocation will work like that in H2H.

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:

JohnnoM wrote:So out of this list:
6 thunder wolves
25 wolf fairs terminators
20 grey hunters
15 blood claws
Bjorn
njal
wolf lord
canis wolfborn
vindicator
land raider redeemer
4 rhinos
2 drop pods

Which would be good and which bad? (im just starting wolves btw)

You are a Space Marine. You will be fine.

rofl

I'll throw in my typical + competitive builds into the discussion here...

Fun Build
HQ
Wolf Lord (Terminator Armour, Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Saga of the Bear, Wolf Tooth Necklace)
Rune Priest (Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane)

ELITES
7x Wolf Guard (Arjac Rockfist, 2x Terminators with Powerfist/Storm Shield, 2x Terminators with Dual Wolf Claws, 2x Squad Leaders with Powerfist/Combi-melta, Squad Leader with Power Weapon/Combi-melta, Land Raider Redeemer with Multi-melta/Extra Armour)

TROOPS
9x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)
8x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)
8x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)

HEAVY SUPPORT
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers)
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers)

TOTAL: 1999pts

I'm probably going to have to switch some things around with my fun build... The Wolf Lord will probably get a fist instead of a Power Weapon, and I'll probably ditch the power weapons on the Grey Hunters too. Might try some different powers on the Rune Priest too.

Tournament Build
HQ
Njal Stormcaller
Wolf Priest

ELITES
Lone Wolf (Terminator Armour, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, 2x Fenrisian Wolves)
4x Wolf Guard (4x Combi-melta, 3x Powerfist, 1x Power Weapon)

TROOPS
8x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)
8x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)
8x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)
8x Grey Hunters (Power Weapon, Wolf Standard, Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino)
5x Grey Hunters (Twin-Linked Lascannon Razorback)

HEAVY SUPPORT
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers, Twin-Linked Lascannon Razorback)
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers, Twin-Linked Lascannon Razorback)

Come 6th, I'll probably ditch the power weapons on this list too, and possibly the Razorbacks as well (depending on how make-or-break hull points become). All-in-all though, 6th isn't hurting Space Wolves that much, if at all.

Andilus Greatsword wrote: All-in-all though, 6th isn't hurting Space Wolves that much, if at all.

Like someone else said. They are marines, they will be fine. I've seen a lot of these rules either help or are neutral to marine armies. A lot of the bigger swing is going to hit the xenos much harder.

pretre wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I've read rumours that apparently acute senses allows out-flanking re-rolls. Which sucks IMHO.

Wolf Scouts. I have a 5/6 chance of coming in on the side I want. Oh now I have a 35/36 chance of coming in on the side I want.

Except that you can't assault the turn you arrive. You can fire a meltagun and a combimeltas, then get assaulted and de. Gone are they days of waking on and multiassaulting two vehicles and a deck chair. I'm pretty sure the only time I'll be fielding Scouts in the future is as allied Space Marine Scouts so I can bring Vulkan to twin link all my melta and master craft my Wolf Guard thunder hammers.

I for one don't really see the need to ally anyone to Space Wolves because they still have the tools to deal with just about anything that shows up...not too concerned about other ally combos either as a good Wolf List now can handle just about everything up to and including 180 Ork Boyz.

Very interesting thread thus far. I just started a SW army recently and all the info is much appreciated.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:I for one don't really see the need to ally anyone to Space Wolves because they still have the tools to deal with just about anything that shows up...not too concerned about other ally combos either as a good Wolf List now can handle just about everything up to and including 180 Ork Boyz.

'cept possibly fliers. We'll see...

Just Dave wrote:

Unholy_Martyr wrote:I for one don't really see the need to ally anyone to Space Wolves because they still have the tools to deal with just about anything that shows up...not too concerned about other ally combos either as a good Wolf List now can handle just about everything up to and including 180 Ork Boyz.

'cept possibly fliers. We'll see...

I think the point of Allies is not to fill in gaps, but to add variety.

For example; I love the whole fluff about Harlequins, but I don’t want to build an Eldar army yet. Allies will allow me to build a small Eldar Force of around 500-750 points and just have fun with them without the expense of another army. Then later if I find I like them, I will increase the army to 2,000 points.
I can also pick up a new unit for my Grey Knights and a few tank for my Guard and not have to wait for two games to play them both, I could pull them out for the next game.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is an example of a Space Wolf List with a Harlequin Troop.

2k Space Wolf/Harlequin

Rune Priest, 190 pts (Chooser of the Slain; Runic Armour; Wolftooth Necklace; Bolt Pistol; Runic Weapon; Master of Runes; Murderous Hurricane, Tempest Wrath)
Long Fangs Pack, 195 pts (CCW x5; Heavy Bolter x1; Lascannon x2; Missile Launcher x2)
o Long Fang Pack Leader (Plasma gun x1; Power Axe x1)

The Rune Priest and Long Fangs are going to be my center Fire Support. I have the Tempest Wrath to keep Skimmers and hopefully Flyers] at bay. With the changes to vehicles I think Murderous Hurricane is going to be more useful. Then again I may try the random powers.
I chose the mixed weapon Long Fang Pack to give me AAA, Anti-Infantry and Anti-Armor Ability. With the Split Fire from my Fire Control I can put the two Missile Launchers [and maybe the Heavy Bolter] on Anti-Air Duty, while the Las Cannons work on Vehicles. Until I have turned the battlefield into a parking lot of burring wreckage I will start with other stuff. Why the Plasma Gun on the Long Fang Pack Leader, just because; it will prove useful as light Anti-Armour and I wont be firing it all of the time, as for the Power Axe WYSIWYG.

Grey Hunters Pack, 225 pts (Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasma Pistol; Plasma gun x2)
o Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Wolf Standard, Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Power Fist)
o Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Close Combat Weapon)

Grey Hunters Pack, 225 pts (Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasma Pistol; Plasma gun x2)
o Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Wolf Standard, Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Power Fist)
o Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Pistol; Bolter; Close Combat Weapon)

Once More my Core, I never leave home without them [most of the time]

Lone Wolf w/ Mark of the Wulfen, 85 pts (Armour; CCW; Storm Shield)
o 2x Fenrisian Wolf
Lone Wolf w/ Mark of the Wulfen, 85 pts (Armour; CCW; Storm Shield)
o 2x Fenrisian Wolf

This is Muzzle and Blitz, they are here because they are fun.

3x Land Speeders, 270 pts (Heavy Bolter; Typhoon Missile Launcher)

I have not decided if I am going to Squadron them or not. With my “Harlequin Jet Bikes” I might give them a try as a Squadron.

Space Wolves Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought (IA), 255 pts ((IAAse, pg. 27); Extra Armor; Wolftooth Necklace; Dreadnought CCW with Storm Bolter; DCCW with Storm Bolter; Cyclone Missile Launcher; Automatic Shielding; Fleet; Night Sagas; Saga of the Forsaken One)

Why the “Imperial Armor” Dread, because this list is about Fluff and Fun. Chuck is an old School Contemptor Dreadnought form my Rouge Trader Days and he just looks cool.

Now For the Harlequin
Why Harlequin, why not. They will look cool from across the table and add a nice color to the grey and white of my Space Wolves. I love the Fluff, and the looks of the models. Now with the Jet Bikes this will give me great flankers [I am not talking about the Outflank Rule, just how I am planning on using them] to go along with the Land Speeders. The Harlequin Troop will I think be a good unit to distract my enemy from my Lone Wolves.
The other thing is that the whole Allies list is less than 500 points so they should not overpower or overshadow my Space Wolves

Eldar Allies [Painted as Harlequin]
Autarch [EL], 118 pts (Banshee Mask; Forceshield; Eldar Jetbike; Power Weapon; Shuriken Pistol; Death Spinner; TL Shuriken Catapults; Haywire Grenades; Plasma Grenades)

Guardian Jetbike Squadron [EL], 76 pts (Eldar Jetbike x3; Shuriken Cannon x1; TL Shuriken Catapults x2)

Harlequin Troupe [EL], 276 pts (CCW x4; Harlequins Kiss x3; Fusion Pistol x2; Shuriken Pistol x5; Hallucinogen Grenades)
o Troupe Master [EL] (Power Weapon; Shuriken Pistol; Hallucinogen Grenades)
o Death Jester [EL] (Shrieker Cannon; Hallucinogen Grenades)
o Shadowseer [EL] (Veil Of Tears ; Fleet; Flip Belts; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Holo-Suit; Harlequins Kiss; Shuriken Pistol; Hallucinogen Grenades)

FAQ is out.

T4(5), is always treated as T5, so it appears that many things became harder to ID (TWC, Plague Marines and bikers and a million other things).

Logan Grimnar can never strike at initiative (since his axe acts as an axe or a fist, both of which are I1). EDIT - Don't have a SW codex here... can he use his axe as a fist or a sword? Maybe he didn't get screwed in CC after all....

Wolf Guard pack leaders are treated as characters.

Joe Mama wrote:FAQ is out.

T4(5), is always treated as T5, so it appears that many things became harder to ID (TWC, Plague Marines and bikers and a million other things).

Logan Grimnar can never strike at initiative (since his axe acts as an axe or a fist, both of which are I1).

Wolf Guard pack leaders are treated as characters.

Logan is fine. His weapon is called Axe of Morkai. But in the description it specifically says it acts like a frost blade or power fist.

Wolf guard in termi armor leading units are going to be the norm. So much wounding abuse shinanigans possible as long as they are in front.


Arjac looks like a lot of fun now that he has to accept and issue challenges.
Wolf guard bikers/jump packers get a little boost with gaining impact hits.
Lukas can acutaly use his pelt of the doppleganger now without having to get his squad killed off. Actually he is a pretty decent duelest now.

No, actually T4(5) is treated as the 4 for ONLY INSTANT DEATH.

And thunderwolves are always T5, not T4(5).

I could see WGBLs with Runic Armor and a Claw being used as an assassin character and for relatively cheap.

JohnnoM wrote:No, actually T4(5) is treated as the 4 for ONLY INSTANT DEATH.

Is? Don't you mean was (as in was the case in 5th edition)? The current FAQs say to totally ignore the first Toughness number and to always use the bracketed one.