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Bakerofish wrote:tell me again how this doesnt concern me Fraz.

and tell me how it concerns you.

I'd like to see ya type that down.

Make me understand

Note I've not said anything about the issue itself.
Plus I am a Texan. My wisdom is thus boundless.

To be honest I don't care about what Chuck Norris thinks about gay people.

But I do care what the council thinks. As I would probably tell a few other councilmen about the problem with the fact gay people should be able to have their children join BSA

so nothing then. okay.

im with asherian here...chuck isnt the issue. The fact that the kid was asked to leave the Boy scouts is the biggest issue for me. Im sure theyve thought of a reason to kick him out that follows every rule except the spirit of the organization itself.

Revenent Reiko wrote:Not true, having a strong will can lead to hard work, but it is much more easily engendered by interest. Being interested in something has nothing to do with your willpower, but makes a HUGE differnce to whether or not you put effort into it. Having a strong will will also not necessarily affect your ambition, which is what will cause you to have that forethought to be able to be better in the future by putting the effort in now.

Ok, a strong will won't lead to hard work all the time, but a lack of willpower will definitely lead away from working hard. There's no way you can work hard without having a strong enough will. It's just something you need. And ok, a strong will may not affect your ambition. But different people have different levels of ambition, and I reckon that's another thing you're born with. So it's coming back to the same point that it's far less to do with a person how well they do than people would think.

That will bias your view. Not caring about one of the factors that affects the data is a serious mistake, and could cause you to make incorrect conclusions based upon that data. The cause is often the more telling thing than the effect i find. GCSE's are also not the most effective data set to look at, as they are less important to the job market than, say, A-levels, or Degrees. Not saying they arent important at all, just less so.

Ok, I disagree with you here. You worry about what the factors are that cause it, I only care about the end result, said result being that girls stand a better chance in society than boys and therefore it's not about what the individual does and far more about what they were always going to do as soon as they were conceived. It's not about why there's that difference, it's just that there is that inherent difference and you can't do anything about it.
And if GCSE results aren't good enough for you, try this: A nice look at plenty of results dating all the way back to 1950. Enough data for you?

you will also find a lot of people (not myself) who disagree that women have a greater chance

So people are blinding themselves to facts? Why should I care if they decide to make themselves stupid?

I do think that that difference is largely mitigated by an individuals approach to life/work/whatever. Agreed, not everyone has the same chances, but its those differences, those different chances, and the different decisions that each person makes that make life what it is. If everyone had the same chances, made the same decisions, led the same life, then we wouldn't be human...
I am also in the 'treat everyone the same' camp, but that is mainly due to being Christian, and firmly believing in 'treat others as you yourself would be treated'

I also am in the "Treat everyone the same" camp. That's why this whole debate started, with me saying we shouldn't say people are worth less because they have less money. And It's purely your opinion that the individual attitude has more affect than their situation. I could go on for hours listing different situations which give some people a better opportunity than others: The two I listed were simply very common factors. And, in fact, if you look at my google docs link from my last post, you will see why I believe that people actually can't have any options, nor can they in fact do anything but react to their circumstances. I won't argue against you on this issue until you have read it however; that would simply be futile.

Bakerofish wrote:so nothing then. okay.

im with asherian here...chuck isnt the issue. The fact that the kid was asked to leave the Boy scouts is the biggest issue for me. Im sure theyve thought of a reason to kick him out that follows every rule except the spirit of the organization itself.

They did the kid a favor. He can do kid things now instead of being forced to earn a hatespeech badge and be forced to go camping with creepy pack masters...

Frazzled wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:tell me again how this doesnt concern me Fraz.

and tell me how it concerns you.

I'd like to see ya type that down.

Make me understand

Note I've not said anything about the issue itself.
Plus I am a Texan. My wisdom is thus boundless.

There is only two things texans have knowledge of, BBQ and Guns.
(P.S. I love texas, i know you are not all hilbillies)
But Really, i left scouts because of the high rate of religion in it and because of the hypocrisy in it. Some of the scout masters where major hunter and gun owners, yet always spoke of the sanctity of life and to make sure we do no harm to the enviroment.

hotsauceman1 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:tell me again how this doesnt concern me Fraz.

and tell me how it concerns you.

I'd like to see ya type that down.

Make me understand

Note I've not said anything about the issue itself.
Plus I am a Texan. My wisdom is thus boundless.

There is only two things texans have knowledge of, BBQ and Guns.
(P.S. I love texas, i know you are not all hilbillies)
But Really, i left scouts because of the high rate of religion in it and because of the hypocrisy in it. Some of the scout masters where major hunter and gun owners, yet always spoke of the sanctity of life and to make sure we do no harm to the enviroment.

And deep sea development.
And space development.
True high tech not computer box crap.

Mirroring what everyone else has said, why should I care what Chuck Norris thinks? Everyone knows the BSA doesn't allow or support gays/ homosexuals and that is their right as an independent company that isn't government funded. I think it's short sighted and preaches a certain life philosophy that I find disgusting, but if you don't like it, form an organization that is more comprehensive and does a wider variety of things.
We get so bogged down in religious or lack there of discussions when we really should be focused on trying to work together. I could care less what you believe, as long as you aren't an donkey-cave and force your religion upon me. I don't force Atheism on people.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:I personally find it more outrageous that the upcoming Expendables 2 will be rated PG-13 because Chuck Norris doesn't like people swearing in movies.

It wont. Sly said he was considering it for a bit (probably just to be a bit diplomatic) but it is going to be R18+

LordofHats wrote:I've never heard a funny Vin Diesel joke. Nuff said

Vin Diesel has a go-cart that runs on the hopes and dreams of orphans.


It's reeeeally fast!

Great Deceiver wrote:Mirroring what everyone else has said, why should I care what Chuck Norris thinks? Everyone knows the BSA doesn't allow or support gays/ homosexuals and that is their right as an independent company that isn't government funded. I think it's short sighted and preaches a certain life philosophy that I find disgusting, but if you don't like it, form an organization that is more comprehensive and does a wider variety of things.
We get so bogged down in religious or lack there of discussions when we really should be focused on trying to work together. I could care less what you believe, as long as you aren't an donkey-cave and force your religion upon me. I don't force Atheism on people.

That sort of live and let live viewpoint has no place here!

Bakerofish wrote:so nothing then. okay.

im with asherian here...chuck isnt the issue. The fact that the kid was asked to leave the Boy scouts is the biggest issue for me. Im sure theyve thought of a reason to kick him out that follows every rule except the spirit of the organization itself.

Just speculation on my part, but since it was his mother that got booted for being a lesbian, I imagine he had a lot to say about the issue to the other scouts and the leadership.
Seriously, if it was your mom, could you be out with the troop, tying square knots like nothing happened?

CT GAMER wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:so nothing then. okay.

im with asherian here...chuck isnt the issue. The fact that the kid was asked to leave the Boy scouts is the biggest issue for me. Im sure theyve thought of a reason to kick him out that follows every rule except the spirit of the organization itself.

They did the kid a favor. He can do kid things now instead of being forced to earn a hatespeech badge and be forced to go camping with creepy pack masters...

Err. Thats not what any Boy Scout actually goes through.

Asherian Command wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:so nothing then. okay.

im with asherian here...chuck isnt the issue. The fact that the kid was asked to leave the Boy scouts is the biggest issue for me. Im sure theyve thought of a reason to kick him out that follows every rule except the spirit of the organization itself.

They did the kid a favor. He can do kid things now instead of being forced to earn a hatespeech badge and be forced to go camping with creepy pack masters...

Err. Thats not what any Boy Scout actually goes through.

Very true. As far as the gay issue goes, I wouldn't want my son going off to the woods to share a tent with a gay boy any more than I'd want him sharing a tent with a straight girl his age.
The reason I mention this is the fact that we had gay kids in our area that would make unwelcome advances on the straight kids.

Asherian Command wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:so nothing then. okay.

im with asherian here...chuck isnt the issue. The fact that the kid was asked to leave the Boy scouts is the biggest issue for me. Im sure theyve thought of a reason to kick him out that follows every rule except the spirit of the organization itself.

They did the kid a favor. He can do kid things now instead of being forced to earn a hatespeech badge and be forced to go camping with creepy pack masters...

Err. Thats not what any Boy Scout actually goes through.

Indeed, going camping with lots of creepy crawlies, thats a different story.

GC had three scorpions in her bunkhouse. If you think spiders are bad, get a scorpion up close and personal. heebie geebies!!!!

scorpions i can take

leeches on the other hand...

Bakerofish wrote:scorpions i can take

leeches on the other hand...

Bogie agrees with you.

Frazzled wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:so nothing then. okay.

im with asherian here...chuck isnt the issue. The fact that the kid was asked to leave the Boy scouts is the biggest issue for me. Im sure theyve thought of a reason to kick him out that follows every rule except the spirit of the organization itself.

They did the kid a favor. He can do kid things now instead of being forced to earn a hatespeech badge and be forced to go camping with creepy pack masters...

Err. Thats not what any Boy Scout actually goes through.

Indeed, going camping with lots of creepy crawlies, thats a different story.

GC had three scorpions in her bunkhouse. If you think spiders are bad, get a scorpion up close and personal. heebie geebies!!!!

Eurgh, scorpions. All the eight legged horror of a spider, with the terrifying addition of a stinger and pincers.

Coolyo294 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:so nothing then. okay.

im with asherian here...chuck isnt the issue. The fact that the kid was asked to leave the Boy scouts is the biggest issue for me. Im sure theyve thought of a reason to kick him out that follows every rule except the spirit of the organization itself.

They did the kid a favor. He can do kid things now instead of being forced to earn a hatespeech badge and be forced to go camping with creepy pack masters...

Err. Thats not what any Boy Scout actually goes through.

Indeed, going camping with lots of creepy crawlies, thats a different story.

GC had three scorpions in her bunkhouse. If you think spiders are bad, get a scorpion up close and personal. heebie geebies!!!!

Eurgh, scorpions. All the eight legged horror of a spider, with the terrifying addition of a stinger and pincers.

But the advantage of being able to set up a sporting event, Scorpionic Gladiators!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:so nothing then. okay.

im with asherian here...chuck isnt the issue. The fact that the kid was asked to leave the Boy scouts is the biggest issue for me. Im sure theyve thought of a reason to kick him out that follows every rule except the spirit of the organization itself.

They did the kid a favor. He can do kid things now instead of being forced to earn a hatespeech badge and be forced to go camping with creepy pack masters...

Err. Thats not what any Boy Scout actually goes through.

Very true. As far as the gay issue goes, I wouldn't want my son going off to the woods to share a tent with a gay boy any more than I'd want him sharing a tent with a straight girl his age.
The reason I mention this is the fact that we had gay kids in our area that would make unwelcome advances on the straight kids.

How old is your son? Also, some gay kids didn't know about "no means no" or respecting peoples personal tastes so no gay child is to be trusted?

If someone made advances on your son then all your son has to do is say that he's not interested. If that person continued then your boy takes it up with the Leader, who can take appropriate action (calling the childs parents, moving them to a different patrol etc.).

Relapse wrote:
Very true. As far as the gay issue goes, I wouldn't want my son going off to the woods to share a tent with a gay boy any more than I'd want him sharing a tent with a straight girl his age.
The reason I mention this is the fact that we had gay kids in our area that would make unwelcome advances on the straight kids.

You mean to say that after the straight kids have said "no thanks" the homosexual kids keep making advances? They have to try at least once if they see someone they are interested in.

Thats how things work with straight people too, boy asks girl out, she says no. A day later guy asks girl out again, rinse repeat.

How is this a problem except the straight kids have no idea how to say "thank you, that is very flattering, but I am not interested"?

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:

Relapse wrote:
Very true. As far as the gay issue goes, I wouldn't want my son going off to the woods to share a tent with a gay boy any more than I'd want him sharing a tent with a straight girl his age.
The reason I mention this is the fact that we had gay kids in our area that would make unwelcome advances on the straight kids.

You mean to say that after the straight kids have said "no thanks" the homosexual kids keep making advances? They have to try at least once if they see someone they are interested in.

Thats how things work with straight people too, boy asks girl out, she says no. A day later guy asks girl out again, rinse repeat.

How is this a problem except the straight kids have no idea how to say "thank you, that is very flattering, but I am not interested"?

No gak sherlock. He also said no coed sleepovers. Same idea.

Yeah, it seemed rather clear to me as well.

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:

Relapse wrote:
Very true. As far as the gay issue goes, I wouldn't want my son going off to the woods to share a tent with a gay boy any more than I'd want him sharing a tent with a straight girl his age.
The reason I mention this is the fact that we had gay kids in our area that would make unwelcome advances on the straight kids.

You mean to say that after the straight kids have said "no thanks" the homosexual kids keep making advances? They have to try at least once if they see someone they are interested in.

Thats how things work with straight people too, boy asks girl out, she says no. A day later guy asks girl out again, rinse repeat.

How is this a problem except the straight kids have no idea how to say "thank you, that is very flattering, but I am not interested"?

That is correct in some instances, the gay kids didn't realize that no means no, and it led to some fights.We are dealing with kids starting at age 12 of whom some were raised to learn that consistant begging gets them what they want. As I also pointed out, I wouldn't want my boy sharing a tent alone all nihjt with a girl his age, either.

I'm good at stating or restating the obvious.

@Relapse

because constant begging lets the boys get what they want ?

Bakerofish wrote:@Relapse

because constant begging lets the boys get what they want ?

Constant begging, keeping the human species going since 25,000 BC.

Relapse - fair enough, I was just checking. In my life experience I have found a lot of people when they say "gay peoples unwelcome advances" they tend to mean "gay predators"

It just brings my defenses up a little.

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Relapse - fair enough, I was just checking. In my life experience I have found a lot of people when they say "gay peoples unwelcome advances" they tend to mean "gay predators"

It just brings my defenses up a little.

No problem. I was thinking along the lines of kids, who are more likely to be impulsive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bakerofish wrote:@Relapse

because constant begging lets the boys get what they want ?

That's the way some kids raise were raised to learn. The kid wears the parent down with constant begging. Instead of diciplining the child, the parent caves and gives them what they were begging for. A crappy way of handling the child in my book, but there you have it.

So the best way to teach children how to behave around others is to segregate them?

SilverMK2 wrote:So the best way to teach children how to behave around others is to segregate them?

No no tazer them all, then remind them you have have a whole bag of Taze with their name on it.