My Dad has no idea...

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**Ovion**

Purifier wrote:I grew up with the word Fluff, so on that point, I disagree.

Aydrin wrote:
FLUFF (flf) n.
b. Inflated or padded material: The report was mostly fluff, with little new information.

This is where it came from. The backstory was/is just fluff in the armybooks/codex.

On the second point I know that most of the people on Dakkadakka and in most GW stores I've been in are army-hoppers to some extent.

That doesn't mean the puritans don't exist.

I played my Skaven religiously, through good times and bad, and when it came time to go 40k, I went Daemonhunters, even though they were nigh on useless. Which turned awesome when they became Codex Grey Knights, but come warp or catachan storm, I'm staying with the Grey knights.

I, like your father, will stick to my army the way I feel was intended.

I looked through the fluff of all armies when I first found fantasy and got stuck on Skaven. I did the same for GK. I have never changed.

I'm not even planning on allying. As a GK I don't trust the other armies. They'll succumb. I know this to be fact.

PS: If Skaven were introduced to 40k, I would have a conflict of interests... and I think Skaven would win it.

For what it's worth you can build every single Dark Eldar unit out of Skaven Models and run a Skaven force as counts-as DE

.

**Pilau Rice**

Aydrin wrote:Ok, so a few more points to add.

2 - Since the bulk of those resources are MY resources... I think my point is more than valid. His army also comes from holiday gifts and such, which is still a waste if he only has 600pts of Tau and starts listing nothing but Kreig on his Christmas Wish List. He did get the Orks for free; but the paint. glue, storage space, and time/effort could be better utilized to bolster his primary army before stretching it across multi-armies

4 - My son is 14, so completion of anything is a good lesson. Commitment to an ideal or project is a good thing. Learning about resource management and tactics is a good thing. It all comes down to life lessons, Your hobbies are a reflection of you as a person, it would be better to devote and finish something rather than set it aside half-finished and start on a similar project.

Amen to this fellow father type person, it's not a cheap hobby to just splash your hard earned dosh about just for them to lose interest in and move on to something else. Luckily yours is still interested in Warhammer, mine gave up totally and moved on to other things.

On the plus side I gained another army, whoop!

**Purifier**

Ovion wrote:For what it's worth you can build every single Dark Eldar unit out of Skaven Models and run a Skaven force as counts-as DE .

I've actually been thinking of building a heavily customised counts-as Daemon army, using all sorts of non-GW models and Fantasy Skaven to build it. I just see it becoming this huge project. I want an army I can actually play with now, instead of in 2 years.

**Ovion**

Purifier wrote:
Ovion wrote:For what it's worth you can build every single Dark Eldar unit out of Skaven Models and run a Skaven force as counts-as DE .

I've actually been thinking of building a heavily customised counts-as Daemon army, using all sorts of non-GW models and Fantasy Skaven to build it. I just see it becoming this huge project. I want an army I can actually play with now, instead of in 2 years.

Most things Skaven could be used as DE out-of-the-box.

Plague Monks as Wracks, Rat Ogres as Grotesques, handlers / warlock engineers as Haemonculi, maybe a Vermin Lord or Exalted Vermin Lord (forgeworld) as Talos...
You can either use actual Raiders / Ravagers and switch the crew with ratmen or convert Hellpits into them.

Now I want to do this myself... adds to list of things to do when has money...

**Skriker**

Iron Snake XV88 wrote:(first post) but here goes, I just recently got my Dad into the hobby, and he is assembling an Eldar army as I type this...And I have three armies currently my Tau (which I favor the most) Death korps, and Orks, My Father and I got in an argument that having multiple armies is "slowed" and "blasphemous in the fictional universe", I told him plenty of people have multiple armies, and soon enough you will get tired of the Eldar culture and start another army. He laughed at that... and I would like to know what the Wargaming community thinks of this, who is being ridiculous here? I may also like to add, he goes against his codex and gives his war walkers 3 weapons (which prove me if I am wrong, he may only have two) and, he calls me gay whenever I say "fluff" and says anybody who uses that term is a slow... So please, help me prove to my Dad that he is being ridiculous and allow me to show him the error of his ways. The heretic...

With the except of Tau I have built *at least* one of every 40k army out there. Many I have built multiples of. It does depend on what you want out of the game, though. I like the differing modeiling and playing options different armies provide for me and past a point when an army is pretty much "done" I need something to work on modellingwise.

Fluff is also a mixed bag. I like the fluff, but dislike the fact that the fluff and the rules only barely intersect anymore. So I "enjoy" the fluff, but play by the rules. And speaking of playing by the rules A warwalker can have 2 weapons, not 3, so that would be what we would term cheating...

Skriker

**loota boy**

This dad sounds very.. Dad-like. I agree, it's all well and good to have more than one army, but if none of your armys are even 1000 points, you have a problem. Finish what you start op! Father knows best!

**AzureDeath**

I have 7 40k armies and 6 fantasy .

**Trondheim**

Notting wrong in spreading the love, let him build his Eldar

**LoganWolfborn**

Your father really is a heretic! There is nothing wrong with having multiple armys or saying fluff!

**Wardragoon**

LoganWolfborn wrote:Your father really is a heretic! There is nothing wrong with having multiple armys or saying fluff!

You really should read the rest of the thread.

**Hetelic**

beigeknight wrote:I thought the ultimate goal was to own ALL the armies? I have two mostly completed armies and have something planned for a third. Then when I start getting stuff as allies, I'll slowly expand those into their own armies.

Gotta catch em all, pokehammer?

**Purifier**

Trondheim wrote:Notting wrong in spreading the love, let him build his Eldar

LoganWolfborn wrote:Your father really is a heretic! There is nothing wrong with having multiple armys or saying fluff!

If you cared to read the rest of the thread, you'd find that the father is paying for all these armies.
If you still think he should shell out so his son can play every army in the game, I suggest you become adults and try earning a living.
Gaining in age isn't hard. It just takes time. You'll get there.

**Bede19025**

Please don't make posts like this on Dakka.
Reds8n

**TheAngrySquig**

I agree with Bede

**Purifier**

Please don't make posts like this on Dakka.
Reds8n

**Aydrin**

Were those posts deleted? What happened there?

**Psienesis**

Mod stepped in and said "Heresy!" and put those posts up against the wall. One bolt-pistol round apiece.

That's what the red text means.

**G00fySmiley**

we like to have a nice respectable community where a disagreement is ok but we do have a code of conduct... some people forget that sometimes and that is why we have mods

**prophet102**

Sitting on 1.5k of grey knights. Once i get to 2-2.5 im going to start an army of either nids or eldar and the pattern will continue. Its really what he wants. But he houldnt be giving you gak about it.

**Wardragoon**

Aydrin wrote:Ok, so a few more points to add.

1 - I am glad that nearly, if not everyone, agrees that starting/expanding to a new army while your primary army is less than 1000pts strong is a waste of resources.

2 - Since the bulk of those resources are MY resources... I think my point is more than valid. His army also comes from holiday gifts and such, which is still a waste if he only has 600pts of Tau and starts listing nothing but Kreig on his Christmas Wish List. He did get the Orks for free; but the paint. glue, storage space, and time/effort could be better utilized to bolster his primary army before stretching it across multi-armies

3 - I am into the LORE as well, which further supports my argument for a dislike of the Orks, should you be Tau. I think if you want to involve/immerse yourself (which he does quite intensely), than you should commit all the way.

4 - My son is 14, so completion of anything is a good lesson. Commitment to an ideal or project is a good thing. Learning about resource management and tactics is a good thing. It all comes down to life lessons, Your hobbies are a reflection of you as a person, it would be better to devote and finish something rather than set it aside half-finished and start on a similar project.

5 - Yeah, yeah... people dislike the word "gay" to describe the word "fluff"... but the only more applicable term I could think of would be "fluffy", which is in itself the same thing. So, I am not sure where the term "fluff" in 40K came from, but with all the other war-like terms used it just reminds me that even a Jar-Jar gets stuck in there sometimes. Let's just shove it under the rug and forget about it. I am going with "Lore" from now on, that is a much more applicable term. I have included a few definitions below, you decide what better defines the background info of 40K.

LORE (lôr, lr) n.
1. Accumulated facts, traditions, or beliefs about a particular subject. See Synonyms at knowledge.
2. Knowledge acquired through education or experience.
3. Archaic Material taught or learned.

FLUFF (flf) n.
1. Light down or fuzz, as on a young bird or on a dandelion or milkweed seed.
2. Something having a very light, soft, or frothy consistency or appearance: a fluff of meringue; a fluff of cloud.
3. Something of little substance or consequence, especially:
a. Light or superficial entertainment: The movie was just another bit of fluff from Hollywood.
b. Inflated or padded material: The report was mostly fluff, with little new information.
4. The parts of a junked car that are not metal and cannot be recycled.
5. Informal An error, especially in the delivery of lines, as by an actor or announcer.

GAY adj.
1. Having or showing a merry, lively mood: gay spirits; gay music. Synonyms: cheerful, gleeful, happy, glad, cheery, lighthearted, joyous, joyful, jovial; sunny, lively, vivacious, sparkling; chipper, playful, jaunty, sprightly, blithe. Antonyms: serious, grave, solemn, joyless; staid, sedate; unhappy, morose, grim; sad, depressed, melancholy.
2.Bright or showy: gay colors; gay ornaments. Synonyms: colorful, brilliant, vivid, intense, lustrous; glittering, theatrical, flamboyant. Antonyms: dull, drab, somber, lackluster; conservative.
3.Slang: Often Disparaging and Offensive . awkward, stupid, or bad; lame: This game is really gay.

For those too lazy to read the thread, its the father spending his cash on his sons army so I completely understand where the man is coming from.

**p_gray99**

Wow, 11 posts and already a warning. That takes skill.

And yes, I agree that the son should listen a little more to the person paying for all of this.

**salvadorjer**

Here's my opinion for what it's worth:

1: walkers limited to 2 weps but if it's just for modelling purposes and you found something that looks cool: go nuts.
2:I have multiple armies and no real problem with them. Yes they are at or over 2k each but i still enjoy doing really small games 400-500pointlevels (and the odd kill-team adapted from 4th ed). So i don't have a problem with the son starting several armies.
3:I feel that enjoying the backstory is one thing, having it limit you is another entirely. Heck over the editions it's even gotten contraditory to older stuff.
4: Srry OP but this is specifically a life lesson: if he's paying for it he has a say in it, also you have to live with him/under his roof.

**Dragonzord**

How about you two have an actual conversation in real life, instead of arguing on message boards on the internet?

You wanna teach him proper values? How about teach him how to be a good father, and not caling him out on the internet..

For someone that's a father, you have a very hard time respecting your sons choices. Its your money thats buying his things? So what? Isnt he happy? Isnt that enough for you, as a parent?

**loota boy**

Dragonzord wrote:How about you two have an actual conversation in real life, instead of arguing on message boards on the internet?

You wanna teach him proper values? How about teach him how to be a good father, and not caling him out on the internet..

For someone that's a father, you have a very hard time respecting your sons choices. Its your money thats buying his things? So what? Isnt he happy? Isnt that enough for you, as a parent?

So, the objective of being a father is to let my kid spend my hard-earned money until he has bought enough stuff to make him happy? What?! Now, I don't have kids, and I'm not married, but if being a good father means throwing money at my kid until he's happy, I think I'll skip on the whole children thing..

**TheContortionist**

sometimes it's fun to be the good guy.sometimes it's fun to be the bad guy. I have around 3k of nids(not much,) and am starting to get tiered of them. Don't get me wrong, i still love my nids and i do have a good amount of work to do on them.

My next army is going to be Grey Knights. They are super cool but my nids are going to tear them a new one :p

**Akroma06**

Aydrin wrote:
1 - I am glad that nearly, if not everyone, agrees that starting/expanding to a new army while your primary army is less than 1000pts strong is a waste of resources.

Anything less than 1K? Yeah I can see that being a waste. I mean I run almost the full spectrum of armies. Dark Eldar, IG, Black Templars, Crimson Fists, Space Wolves, Necrons, Orks, Tau, and Eldar. Are all of these painted? No but I do have enough built/painted for standard games with my group 1850-2000.

Aydrin wrote:
2 - Since the bulk of those resources are MY resources... I think my point is more than valid. His army also comes from holiday gifts and such, which is still a waste if he only has 600pts of Tau and starts listing nothing but Kreig on his Christmas Wish List. He did get the Orks for free; but the paint. glue, storage space, and time/effort could be better utilized to bolster his primary army before stretching it across multi-armies

If he doesn't want to paint the orks or use them then how about selling them or trading them off. If those are your resources then a simple no you can't have any more should suffice. Now should he get a job (mowing yards, how sitting, news papers, etc) then that is up to the two of you as to how he should handle that money. Space for a smaller army shouldn't be an issue. A shoebox should suffice until he is ready to transport them somewhere.

Aydrin wrote:
3 - I am into the LORE as well, which further supports my argument for a dislike of the Orks, should you be Tau. I think if you want to involve/immerse yourself (which he does quite intensely), than you should commit all the way.

I agree I have played the game for years so it took me a while to build up an army then switch. Sometimes I don't want to field flimsy troops with flimsy vehicles (Dark Eldar) I want some heavy hitters in power armor so I pick up marines. If I want to field a horde I bust out the orks. Each of my armies has a back story and some of them cross with each other so that way I can run a flu--- army that fits in with my lore.

Aydrin wrote:
4 - My son is 14, so completion of anything is a good lesson. Commitment to an ideal or project is a good thing. Learning about resource management and tactics is a good thing. It all comes down to life lessons, Your hobbies are a reflection of you as a person, it would be better to devote and finish something rather than set it aside half-finished and start on a similar project.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Aydrin wrote:
5 - Yeah, yeah... people dislike the word "gay" to describe the word "fluff"... but the only more applicable term I could think of would be "fluffy", which is in itself the same thing. So, I am not sure where the term "fluff" in 40K came from, but with all the other war-like terms used it just reminds me that even a Jar-Jar gets stuck in there sometimes. Let's just shove it under the rug and forget about it. I am going with "Lore" from now on, that is a much more applicable term. I have included a few definitions below, you decide what better defines the background info of 40K.

Honestly if you want to use the word gay I don't care. Sometimes people who scream that you need to be enlightened or something similar need to get some thicker skin and just not let stuff bother them...world would be a better place. I think the difference in Lore and Fluff is that you can build a fluff army around something specifically. For example my Dark Eldar/Eldar fluff is that they are exiled from Commoragh after failing to overthrow Vect and as a result roam the stars. The seek to be able to return and overthrow him, they also wish to see the ancient power of the eldar restored and the puny IoM defeated. Now that is not going along with the Lore especially of the eldar where they avoid conflict unless there are other circumstances (exodite world or craftworld under attack)

Aydrin wrote:
LORE (lôr, lr) n.
1. Accumulated facts, traditions, or beliefs about a particular subject. See Synonyms at knowledge.
2. Knowledge acquired through education or experience.
3. Archaic Material taught or learned.

I would say 1 is the most prevelant. It fits with what you read in novels, codexes, etc. Lore is definently more broad.

Aydrin wrote:
FLUFF (flf) n.
1. Light down or fuzz, as on a young bird or on a dandelion or milkweed seed.
2. Something having a very light, soft, or frothy consistency or appearance: a fluff of meringue; a fluff of cloud.
3. Something of little substance or consequence, especially:
a. Light or superficial entertainment: The movie was just another bit of fluff from Hollywood.
b. Inflated or padded material: The report was mostly fluff, with little new information.
4. The parts of a junked car that are not metal and cannot be recycled.
5. Informal An error, especially in the delivery of lines, as by an actor or announcer.

3a and b fit 40K here. Light or superficial. In my example above it is purely superficial as in GW does not approve my fluff nor do they care. It is padded for me to the norm or the lore.

Aydrin wrote:
GAY adj.
1. Having or showing a merry, lively mood: gay spirits; gay music. Synonyms: cheerful, gleeful, happy, glad, cheery, lighthearted, joyous, joyful, jovial; sunny, lively, vivacious, sparkling; chipper, playful, jaunty, sprightly, blithe. Antonyms: serious, grave, solemn, joyless; staid, sedate; unhappy, morose, grim; sad, depressed, melancholy.
2.Bright or showy: gay colors; gay ornaments. Synonyms: colorful, brilliant, vivid, intense, lustrous; glittering, theatrical, flamboyant. Antonyms: dull, drab, somber, lackluster; conservative.
3.Slang: Often Disparaging and Offensive . awkward, stupid, or bad; lame: This game is really gay.

Sigh...a lot of people need to be aware of 1 and 2. Note that none of these involve the lifestyle. I think you meant 3 although with tau and eldar being involved...just kidding, just kidding. Again I think people need to have thicker skin (especially on the internet).

**KalashnikovMarine**

Well originally I was just gonna collect guard for awhile... then my army of Sisters fell in to my lap. I want to round them both out to a healthy 2000 points (mostly buying rhinos, hellhounds and manticores at this point) and go from there. I really like both my armies, the fluff is cool, our heroes are awesome (Ciaphas Cain any one?) and I'm having fun, so what's the harm right?

Now to figure out what my third army will be.... I'm thinking Necrons, Chaos Undivided/1000 Sons/Khornate Berserkers (probably should do the latter... my armies are both /really/ shooty, so some stabby would be nice) or maybe cave to the universe and start an SM army of some format (probably Space Wolves like my little brother)...

Either way we're all here to have fun and enjoy the hobby. Some people want enough troops to run a full game of Apocalypse without team mates and just their guard army, others like me want enough to run solid armies at the 500-2000 point level.