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loota boy wrote:For orks..
'ard case. I get to pay 15 points to remove my ability to assault out of my wagon and shoot all my guns?! Yeah....

'ard boyz. The drawing point of boyz is that they are cheap. I don't look at boyz and think, "Hmm, these things really need an easily ignorable 4+ save, and i'm willing to pay 4 points to get it!

'eavy armour on pretty much anything, for most of the reasons above.

Stikkbomm chucka's and wreckin' balls. Stikkbomms are dumb, and wreckin' balls, while ballsy and cool, are just not worth having pretty much ever. Oh, and the grabbin' klaw. I used one once to grab an eldar skimmer. But otherwise, it should be avioded.

disagree on the grabba claw.. if you grab a flier which raw you can ... roll up to a flier withing 2 inches... on a 4+ it cna't move next turn, a flier that can't move is destroyed

Stikkbombz are frag grenades. I've never seen anyone complain about being able to give a whole squad assault grenades before (even if it is only for a turn..)

Wrecking balls are a bit hit-and-miss, but they've done me good service over the years (wrecked a Lith with one IIRC, from a throwaway trukk left over from a boyz squad). They aren't reliable, but they are damn orky

Grabbing Klaws are, for me, a must Remember that if you are grabbing a skimmer they can't move (if it works). No move = no jink save. It also equals being autohit in cc.

Grab with BW, then run a deffrolla over it on your next turn, as it won't have moved

Exergy wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Heavy bolter, Its only str 5 and ap 4. Not enough to take out even marines.

even marines!

when you start your comparison with god like super humans fully encased in inches of armor you are going to be disapointed.

Ok, let me rephrase that, for me its useless. All i play against is marines.

Exergy wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Heavy bolter, Its only str 5 and ap 4. Not enough to take out even marines.

even marines!

when you start your comparison with god like super humans fully encased in inches of armor you are going to be disapointed.

Yeah, because Marines are so hard to kill in this game. T4 3+ Save isn't actually that durable, I've noticed.

Harder than anyone else, for stock troops

Not everyone has bags of AP3 lying around that aren't also anti-tank weapons, being used to kill the SM vehicles

Sure, they're killable, but most anti-infantry weapons won't do the job too well. You either need mass fire, or light anti-tank weapons or better/dedicated anti-heavy-infantry weapons to kill them effectively.

Heavy bolters aren't bad as weapons go, but their intended niche is mowing down lightly to mid armoured infantry and paper thin vehicles.

The most useless piece of wargear for sixth ed has to be extra armour for vehicals.

BlackRaven1987!! wrote:The most useless piece of wargear for sixth ed has to be extra armour for vehicals.

Pretty much that, I my 4 years of playing 40k. I have yet to have seen somebody take it.

I used to take the equivilent for my ork BW's, as they relied on movement, but not so much on shooting in 5th.

No reason really to take them for 6th

Command and control node.

Ascalam wrote:I used to take the equivilent for my ork BW's, as they relied on movement, but not so much on shooting in 5th.

No reason really to take them for 6th

Yeah, i'm thinking that with the points you've brought up on grabbin' klaws, i may sub out the points for one of those. Also, would you say that the mandatory big shoota to stop weapon destroyed results from being immobilized is no longer mandatory?

I wouls till take one, but YMMV.

Deathrolla wagons need to stay mobile, so i'd leave it on for those. That said they'll likely die to glances more than outright pen kills these days. I've only lost one to a pen (firedragons) but several to glancedeaths.

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the worst wargear (I believe) has to go to the honor blade in the tau codex. Not because of what it does, it is okay, but because of who could get it. Essentially, you paid 10 points to give your spiritual leader of your army +2 S. This is the guy who, if he dies, half your army goes fleeing into a corner to cry, do you really want him in CC?

...thats a really good point actually...

Well played sir... well played.

No, it makes sense, actually.

If you're bringing an HQ that has the possibility of causing half your army to run away, then you better make sure it stays alive. The blade here is an insurance policy to make sure that last tac marine or single remaining guardsman from a blob doesn't single-handedly trigger this horrific event by doing nothing more than making it into close combat.

It's an insurance policy against disaster, not the worst possible piece of wargear.

These days, Krak Grenades on a Black Templars Chaplain. Yay, a S6 AP4 attack, totally not worse than the Crozius he's got base!

loota boy wrote:For orks..
'ard case. I get to pay 15 points to remove my ability to assault out of my wagon and shoot all my guns?! Yeah....

'ard boyz. The drawing point of boyz is that they are cheap. I don't look at boyz and think, "Hmm, these things really need an easily ignorable 4+ save, and i'm willing to pay 4 points to get it!

'eavy armour on pretty much anything, for most of the reasons above.

Stikkbomm chucka's and wreckin' balls. Stikkbomms are dumb, and wreckin' balls, while ballsy and cool, are just not worth having pretty much ever. Oh, and the grabbin' klaw. I used one once to grab an eldar skimmer. But otherwise, it should be avioded.

I think there's something odd with your reasoning here. Some of those upgrades are bad or side-grades. They may not be your cookie-cutter standard choice, but worst in 40k is far from their description. 4+ save isn't a bad save at all. Most weapons are AP5, meaning 5+ and 6+ saves are redundant to the point where I often think "what the hell are GW thinking?!" but AP4 is actually pretty damned decent.

The 'Ard case is true that it doesn't make much sense as of 5th edition and onwards, but the number of fire points isn't affected that much since you don't get many rules for how it's affected. It's still an upgrade, which is a whole bunch more if you compare to Intercept or Surprise Assault or one of those nifty Tau target priority things.

Stikkbomb Chukka can let you take out a powerfist before it can do anything. Not bad, but makes more sense for a higher initiative army.

Wreckingball is a free S9 attack to anything close to the vehicle. Got 10 points left, why not? Probably don't in a codex where you don't need 100 points to do something worthwhile, though.

Grabbin' Klaw combined with a Boarding Plank and a nob or boss of some description inside? Think outside the box. Think holding the box. And punching it. Hard.

Luide wrote:

Exergy wrote:

the_Armyman wrote:Condemnor Boltgun for the SoB. A single shot, S5 AP- weapon that causes a Perils of the Warp on an unsaved wound. If the opposing player actually has a psyker in
his army, you'd need a 6 to hit to allocate the wound to the psyker (since it's unlikely that he's not part of a unit), then you'd need to wound him, and then he would need to fail his armor save to trigger the PotW effect. All this for 15 points? I'll take a dozen!

or you use it against Grey Knights, Psyker Battle Squads and Eldar Seer Councils. Rack up those wounds!

You forgot that it only works against multi-wound psykers. All others will be dead by the unsaved wound, so they won't actually care about the perils.

Edit: fixed my quotes

I'm fairly certain it'll work great on a Brotherhood of Psychers. That means a seer council isn't very good for this reason, but since Grey Knights and PBS resolve perils of the warp against the unit and not individuals... Oh, and if you really want to you can dictate the order of shooting saves conducted so that the pistol shot is more likely to hit Eldrad or that Rune Priest. It's not a cookie-cutter, but it's not completely useless (see above) or a direct downgrade (see previously mentioned Digital Weapon).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:These days, Krak Grenades on a Black Templars Chaplain. Yay, a S6 AP4 attack, totally not worse than the Crozius he's got base!

Am I reading the Crozius wrong? It's a power weapon, a melee weapon, right, and doesn't have a range value anywhere near 8", right? I can't find any Black Templar Chaplain, did you mean Castellan or Champion?

Mahtamori wrote:

loota boy wrote:For orks..
'ard case. I get to pay 15 points to remove my ability to assault out of my wagon and shoot all my guns?! Yeah....

'ard boyz. The drawing point of boyz is that they are cheap. I don't look at boyz and think, "Hmm, these things really need an easily ignorable 4+ save, and i'm willing to pay 4 points to get it!

'eavy armour on pretty much anything, for most of the reasons above.

Stikkbomm chucka's and wreckin' balls. Stikkbomms are dumb, and wreckin' balls, while ballsy and cool, are just not worth having pretty much ever. Oh, and the grabbin' klaw. I used one once to grab an eldar skimmer. But otherwise, it should be avioded.

I think there's something odd with your reasoning here. Some of those upgrades are bad or side-grades. They may not be your cookie-cutter standard choice, but worst in 40k is far from their description. 4+ save isn't a bad save at all. Most weapons are AP5, meaning 5+ and 6+ saves are redundant to the point where I often think "what the hell are GW thinking?!" but AP4 is actually pretty damned decent.

The 'Ard case is true that it doesn't make much sense as of 5th edition and onwards, but the number of fire points isn't affected that much since you don't get many rules for how it's affected. It's still an upgrade, which is a whole bunch more if you compare to Intercept or Surprise Assault or one of those nifty Tau target priority things.

Stikkbomb Chukka can let you take out a powerfist before it can do anything. Not bad, but makes more sense for a higher initiative army.

Wreckingball is a free S9 attack to anything close to the vehicle. Got 10 points left, why not? Probably don't in a codex where you don't need 100 points to do something worthwhile, though.

Grabbin' Klaw combined with a Boarding Plank and a nob or boss of some description inside? Think outside the box. Think holding the box. And punching it. Hard.

Best I could come up with for orks. We don't have anything as hilariously useless as some of the tau upgrades or tyranid morphs. Just listed the worst things i could think of in the dex.

Mahtamori wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:These days, Krak Grenades on a Black Templars Chaplain. Yay, a S6 AP4 attack, totally not worse than the Crozius he's got base!

Am I reading the Crozius wrong? It's a power weapon, a melee weapon, right, and doesn't have a range value anywhere near 8", right? I can't find any Black Templar Chaplain, did you mean Castellan or Champion?

Oh, meh, forgot that you could throw grenades now. At any rate, all Crozius Arcanums have been FAQ'd to Power Mauls, so S+2 AP4. Master of Sanctity/Reclusiarch=Chaplain.

Probably a Lasblaster on an Eldar Autarch. It's essentially a glorified lasgun. It costs 1 point. Why would you take this when you can take a Death Spinner or Fusion Gun?

The Shuriken Pistol he has as standard is more likely to kill something than a Lasblaster.

Jayden63 wrote:Ork combi rokkit. Its a weapon that hits once every three games.

I lol'd thanks, and yes, not a big fan of it, but I do have three on my meganobs for the average 1 hit a game. If you think about it, 3 combi rokkits are 15 points the exact cost of a hunter killer missle and combined with a better chance to hit. So maybe the hunter killer missile should be on the list?

For me , giving my Dark Reaper Exarch a Shuriken Cannon has always made me scratch my head . Sure , it's free , but your giving up his basic Reaper Launcher for it .

I've always heard it said that psilencers are a waste of points even when they're free. I'm inclined to agree with them.

While both of those are not worth while wargear changes I think it's hard to say a psilencer is worthless. I mean it can do damage to things, right? So it isn't all that bad. However, it isn't free and still sucks! But a Heavy 6 weapon does have its uses!

I think stuff that's been mentioned before that has no purpose (Tau's Command and control node: FAQ "This piece of wargear no longer has any effect) or has very little purpose (Night shields on DE vehicles now as they get a 5+ Jink save anyways) is what was originally being focused on.

Think you mean Flickerfields there. Night shields are the ones that reduce the enemy's range.

The flickerfield still has a use. I put them on my more important transports to stop them from getting blown away automatically on turn one if i go second... They are also good aganst stuff that ignores cover like flamers and hive guard

The Jink save only works if you are moving. If not, you be hosed IIRC...

Oh because of all those static DE vehicles =P And you know that vehicles are top priority for my flamers!

The only real reason I can imagine taking them is that it helps against dangerous terrain tests and Hive Guard, both of which seem pretty unlikely to me.

Note sure if this counts but Castellan Crowe's sword - its a basic CCW that buffs the enemy. No, seriously.

Iron Halo in C:BT
You are paying 25 points for a piece of wargear you can only have one per army, and yet you can take a Storm Shield for 15p, which gives a better invulnerable save, even though you can't get an extra attack for having two weapons (which AAC covers up anyway).

Dozer Blades in C:IG
They cost 10 points and the only thing they do is let you reroll failed difficult terrain tests. For starters, why would you drive around in difficult terrain anyway? That's what Guardmen are for. Besides, in that particular army, one could take so much better (and more) stuff for ten points.

Hunter-killer missile in various Codices
Well, this thing is something you could argue about. A few people will tell you it is useful, while others will say its a waste of 10 points for a BS3 Krak missile with a single shot only.

felixander wrote:Oh because of all those static DE vehicles =P And you know that vehicles are top priority for my flamers!

The only real reason I can imagine taking them is that it helps against dangerous terrain tests and Hive Guard, both of which seem pretty unlikely to me.

Never played second AS DE, have you?

They haven't moved yet, so no Jink allowed. They go down fast to long ranged fire until they get to move, as they are a tinfoil packet that can't dodge yet. Stunned or Immobilized DE vehicles also lose Jink, and it's not exactly hard to achieve that on an open-topped AV 10 skimmer

Night shields mitigate this a bit, but there are a lot of long ranged guns that will still be in range nonetheless. There's a reason flickerfields went on everything that could mount them in 5th

Heavy flamers and Flamestorm cannons can down DE vehicles fast, as most only have 2-3 HP. They can even take more than one out at a time, if they were close together and/or already damaged.

YMMV, of course, but i'm betting you've never played as DE vs creative opponents

I actually play DE frequently. I just never get first move for it to matter! I hadn't thought of that. I still think that if your opponent is blowing a single S5 hit on a Venom then obviously it's last ditch for knocking that vehicle down, which is sad for them anyways.
I don't think it's a matter of creativity. More so of desperation =D

Often it's a hull-mounted H flamer btrying to toast a venom as it cruises in for the kill, with a load of Haywire wyches

If you're in range, you may as well shoot it, and i've lost Venoms to Burnaboyz and Kombi-skorchas (and burna bommas) before