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I'm not the one making the claim in the first place, Shuma. I quote:

Melissia wrote:I've seen no evidence that the current group of youths is any lazier than any other group of youths in the past.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Testify wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Testify wrote:I think it's an incredible coincidence that young people are lazy

That's a cute little lie you tell yourself so you can look down on young people.

Young people are no more or less lazy than they have always been.

Way to just ignore literally everything that I said in that post.

I think why I don't like posting on this forum is because you people have the ability to ignore the fact that only 2 of the six years in 18-24 are teen years and instead just flop around arguing whether teen people are lazy. Not that either of you back up your claims in any way at all anyway.

Are you doubting that youth unemployment is high?
Or that there is a shortage of low-skilled jobs traditionally filled by young people?

Melissia wrote:

TheWildHost wrote:High obesity rates

Doesn't indicate laziness. It indicates a poor diet.

TheWildHost wrote:and even then there are a ton of pot heads

The highest figure I could find is one in ten youths. That is not exactly a very sizable minority.

Obesity is an artefact of diet and a lack of regular exercise as influenced by the modern globalized economies push towards less manual and more sedentary labor. As for pot, it's not a youth affliction, it's a generational one that's moved into people in their late 20s by now. The young aren't really dramatically more likely to smoke weed, if anything they're logically less so as they have less floating cash and they're still under closer parental scrutiny.


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Testify wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Testify wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Testify wrote:I think it's an incredible coincidence that young people are lazy

That's a cute little lie you tell yourself so you can look down on young people.

Young people are no more or less lazy than they have always been.

Way to just ignore literally everything that I said in that post.

I think why I don't like posting on this forum is because you people have the ability to ignore the fact that only 2 of the six years in 18-24 are teen years and instead just flop around arguing whether teen people are lazy. Not that either of you back up your claims in any way at all anyway.

Are you doubting that youth unemployment is high?
Or that there is a shortage of low-skilled jobs traditionally filled by young people?

I'm arguing that the couple of you are having a pointless and meaningless side argument because of a seeming lack of ability to interface with the actual content of the topic.

ShumaGorath wrote:
I'm arguing that the couple of you are having a pointless and meaningless side argument because of a seeming lack of ability to interface with the actual content of the topic.

Not really an arguement, Melissa just miss-understood something I said. No harm done.

ShumaGorath wrote:

youbedead wrote:

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:That would be your decision to have such expensive living conditions on such a wage. You can find proper housing for less. I gave a worst case scenario.

If you go with best case, aka free, living with parents, then you have $500 to do with whatever you like.

Cheapest apartments around here, 134 a week. Your original argument was that minimum wage is hurting the economy and that 500 dollars a month is enough to live on. So once again your argument is full of gak.

Do you live on the bottom of the ocean? Where the hell is rent that cheap?

Phoenix, Arizona. You can find pretty cheap housing in certain areas. Though I live an ahwatukee so house prices are stupidly inflated around here.

18 is the start of adulthood. At 18 you can die in service for your country. At 21 you can legally drink...which still makes me chuckle but hey its the law.

There is a mark between this generation of youth to youths twenty years ago.

Back then
1. Parents were allowed to "beat" their kids for screwing up.
2. Parents grounding their kids when they screw up in school.
3. Fast food (BK, McD's what have you) was seen as a treat
4. No PS, Xbox, or 400 channels to choose from
5. Schooling was better (fear of getting grounded or ass beaten plays a part)
6. Hanging out with friends involve playing tackle football
7. Who had the coolest BMX/freestyle bike
8. Actually had to crack the book open and read to do homework and hope you had the encycopedia collection to get those essay done (Fear of getting grounded or your ass beaten plays into it)
9. Milk/water/tea was the norm at dinner
10. Respect

to name a few. Take a today youth back to that time...poor kid be hanging from the closest rafter/tree/lightpole/stairwell/whatever has the height to do the job

Which is little more than unfounded arrogance really.

I did more manual labor to earn my college tuition than most youths in those years, myself., and I was certainly not alone in this.

But that was within your sphere Mel. Also I don't know how old you are. Soon as I posted the above comment I also remember where I am now with what I have and bouncing against what I know with all my highschool friends back then. I know a few that would probaly kill themselves if WoW stops, couple of them are diabetic now due to all the freaking soda they drink, one thats quite a pothead, few with some drinking issue, few that literally never progressed after highschool.

Jihadin wrote:18 is the start of adulthood. At 18 you can die in service for your country. At 21 you can legally drink...which still makes me chuckle but hey its the law.

There is a mark between this generation of youth to youths twenty years ago.

Back then
1. Parents were allowed to "beat" their kids for screwing up.
2. Parents grounding their kids when they screw up in school.
3. Fast food (BK, McD's what have you) was seen as a treat
4. No PS, Xbox, or 400 channels to choose from
5. Schooling was better (fear of getting grounded or ass beaten plays a part)
6. Hanging out with friends involve playing tackle football
7. Who had the coolest BMX/freestyle bike
8. Actually had to crack the book open and read to do homework and hope you had the encycopedia collection to get those essay done (Fear of getting grounded or your ass beaten plays into it)
9. Milk/water/tea was the norm at dinner
10. Respect

to name a few. Take a today youth back to that time...poor kid be hanging from the closest rafter/tree/lightpole/stairwell/whatever has the height to do the job

Honestly, I think after a few days, I would be fine with that, well, maybe a few weeks.
Looking back at my previous posts after thinking about them I realize, i'm an idiot.

I think the problem is that some people don't look/try hard enough, or have a narrow selection of the job they want.
If gak hits the fan I am just going to go to trade school, learn to be a pipe fitter like my dad, brother, and great grand-father. Now it isn't necessarily the persons fault if they can't find a job, economy's tough, but if you know the right people (You don't even have to do that) you can find something.

I am a pretty obese fattie, always have been. Never been "lazy" though.

I have worked 40+ hours a week since I turned 17 (14 years ago), I spend 5 of those years also going to school full time. 5 of those years were spend running my fat & lazy butt into burning buildings to save lives as a hobby (volunteer firefighter), spend 20+ hours a week doing that in addition to working full time because I enjoyed helping my fellow man.

I run, I have done a few 5k's, looking forward to a half marathon in April. I work out and eat pretty decent. And despite all of that I am still obese. Sucks, but that is life.

Obesity is not an indicator of lazyness. Plenty of skinny lazy people out there. Just bugs me that people assume that fattie here must be doing nothing but sit on his behind all day because he is fat.

How the hell is 10% a small minority? I do not understand young people nowadays, and I am one of them dangit!


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d-usa wrote:I am a pretty obese fattie, always have been. Never been "lazy" though.

I have worked 40+ hours a week since I turned 17 (14 years ago), I spend 5 of those years also going to school full time. 5 of those years were spend running my fat & lazy butt into burning buildings to save lives as a hobby (volunteer firefighter), spend 20+ hours a week doing that in addition to working full time because I enjoyed helping my fellow man.

I run, I have done a few 5k's, looking forward to a half marathon in April. I work out and eat pretty decent. And despite all of that I am still obese. Sucks, but that is life.

Obesity is not an indicator of lazyness. Plenty of skinny lazy people out there. Just bugs me that people assume that fattie here must be doing nothing but sit on his behind all day because he is fat.

If you do not mind me asking, how tall are you and how much do you weigh? I am 6'4" and weigh in at 250Lbs. I can bench around 300lbs any day of the week. My doctor recently told me that I am on the verge of being obese -_-

I'm flat out on the fat side. 5'10 and 275.

I will admit to being out of shape any day of the week, but call me lazy and I get pissed.

Jihadin wrote:

There is a mark between this generation of youth to youths twenty years ago.

Back then
1. Parents were allowed to "beat" their kids for screwing up.

No. No, they weren't.

Jihadin wrote:2. Parents grounding their kids when they screw up in school.

Parents still do this.

Jihadin wrote:3. Fast food (BK, McD's what have you) was seen as a treat

What decade are you talking about? Twenty years ago was 1992, not 1952.

Jihadin wrote:4. No PS, Xbox, or 400 channels to choose from

Just NES, Genesis, SNES, Arcades, and a couple hundred stations.

Jihadin wrote:5. Schooling was better (fear of getting grounded or ass beaten plays a part)

In the late 80s and early 90s? Really? Where are you living? Riverdale?

Jihadin wrote:6. Hanging out with friends involve playing tackle football

Yeah, if you like that kind of thing. Not everyone does. That same 10% we discussed earlier spent their days listening to Nirvana and smoking pot while the nerds read comic books and *gasp* played video games.

Jihadin wrote:7. Who had the coolest BMX/freestyle bike

More personal flavor.

Jihadin wrote:8. Actually had to crack the book open and read to do homework and hope you had the encycopedia collection to get those essay done (Fear of getting grounded or your ass beaten plays into it)

Yeah, now those crazy kids just have to use that newfangled encyclopedia called the interwebs-- a source every bit as unreliable as Encyclopedia Brittanica.

Jihadin wrote:9. Milk/water/tea was the norm at dinner

Do we not drink these things anymore?

Jihadin wrote:10. Respect

... Right

Jihadin wrote:Take a today youth back to that time...poor kid be hanging from the closest rafter/tree/lightpole/stairwell/whatever has the height to do the job

Technology addiction is something I can agree with you about. Ever seen Hot Tub Timemachine?

Active life style doesn't mean your lazy. You spend like 4-5 hrs at a site (guessing) putting out a fire wearing a your gear and what not. I say you have pretty strong cardio. Heck I spend an hour in the morning doing unit PT and pretty much sit behind a desk all day...actually I use to. Currently I'm a bit busted up from an IED two years ago and still recovering. I'm not lazy though. I do enjoy my down time as much as anybody. Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX.

KingKodo wrote:How the hell is 10% a small minority? I do not understand young people nowadays, and I am one of them dangit!

Wait wut...? You'd like to claim that 10% is a large minority? As opposed to, let's say, 30-49% ???

Jihadin wrote:Active life style doesn't mean your lazy. You spend like 4-5 hrs at a site (guessing) putting out a fire wearing a your gear and what not. I say you have pretty strong cardio. Heck I spend an hour in the morning doing unit PT and pretty much sit behind a desk all day...actually I use to. Currently I'm a bit busted up from an IED two years ago and still recovering. I'm not lazy though. I do enjoy my down time as much as anybody. Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX.

I was mostly replying to the "Obesity is an indicator of lazyness" argument that was being made by some.

My favorite fires were brush/grass fires. 6 hours of chasing after fires in a brush truck, digging firelines with rakes and showels, running away from the flames. Those were good times.

d-usa wrote:

Jihadin wrote:Active life style doesn't mean your lazy. You spend like 4-5 hrs at a site (guessing) putting out a fire wearing a your gear and what not. I say you have pretty strong cardio. Heck I spend an hour in the morning doing unit PT and pretty much sit behind a desk all day...actually I use to. Currently I'm a bit busted up from an IED two years ago and still recovering. I'm not lazy though. I do enjoy my down time as much as anybody. Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX.

I was mostly replying to the "Obesity is an indicator of lazyness" argument that was being made by some.

My favorite fires were brush/grass fires. 6 hours of chasing after fires in a brush truck, digging firelines with rakes and showels, running away from the flames. Those were good times.

In many cases, Obesity is a genetic or environmental issue and has little to do with how "in shape" one really is. Take Sumo Wrestlers for an example.

Jihadin wrote:Active life style doesn't mean your lazy. You spend like 4-5 hrs at a site (guessing) putting out a fire wearing a your gear and what not. I say you have pretty strong cardio. Heck I spend an hour in the morning doing unit PT and pretty much sit behind a desk all day...actually I use to. Currently I'm a bit busted up from an IED two years ago and still recovering. I'm not lazy though. I do enjoy my down time as much as anybody. Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX.

I resent being called lazy because I've worked a long time as a busboy. When you're 18, in College, and lives in a town with exactly 4 employers (2 restaurants, 1 convenience store and the town), you take what you can. Honestly this is pretty frakking insulting of you, you have not a single clue of the gak I went through with this job, or even that I ever complained because I wanted to obtain a better paying job for no work. What is it, you think your entitled to judge other's hardship because of yours? Well, to do that, you'd have to actually have an idea of other's hardship, and a reason to pass judgement.

youbedead wrote:

Jihadin wrote:

They found that 75 percent of American young adults do not qualify to serve in the military because they have criminal records, are physically unfit or — the biggest reason — have inadequate levels of education. One out of every four American students fails to get the high school diploma needed to join the military.

This includes about half of the nation’s black and Hispanic students, who drop out of high school. Even more disturbing is the report’s finding that 30 percent of the young people graduating from America’s high schools don’t do well enough in math, science and English on the aptitude test to serve in the military.

Found this bit reading another article

I mean no offense, but how can one-third of potential recruits be so dumb that they can even be a grunt, seriously. Thats just ... I have no words

When my father was an Air Force recruiter a decade ago he told me that the national average on the ASVAB (test to get into the military) was well below the minimum Air Force standards. I imagine that it has only gotten worse since then. No job in the US military can be accomplished by a mouth breather who can't be bothered to do something as simple as complete High School, even those who are just the "grunts".


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As for apartments, there are 2 bedrooms in the town I live in (about 20 minutes from St. Louis) for $600. Should be easily obtainable for 2 room mates.

Did you miss the sacrifice and time spent to get there piece?

When I was 19 as an E-3 in the Air Force I was making $7.50 an hour based on my salary and the hours I worked in a month. I managed to pay car insurance, a new car payment, split rent/utilities/cable on an apartment with one other person, and still eat.

I was making $7.50 an hour working as a meteorologist forecasting for 13 differant military installations in a 6 state area. I cannot argue that Burger Flipper McGee at McDonalds was doing work that was on par with mine, but he was making atleast equal if not better pay.

Now as a 10 year E-5 I make roughly $29 an hour (nearly a third of that is based on cost of living in the area I live in, and is subject to change when I move). My current job is labelled as "Lead Weather Forecaster" for the largest military Air Operation Center in the world. I'm effectively responsible for providing weather protection/support for 150-200 aircraft flying anywhere in the world per given shift, and I mean anywhere. US, Antartica, Europe, Afghanistan, Australia, you name it we're flying there and I'm watching it. You think your local weather forecaster has a hard job working in one area, try this out. As my time spent on the job has increased, so has my experience, responsibilities, and pay.

I'm very much a supporter of you earn pay based apon what you do. Arguing that some guy lugging lumber around for 5-6 hours a day is entitled to $12-15 an hour is ludicrous in my opinion. If he can't find work any better then that is a result if his choices. He could have tried harder in school. And don't give me crap about being disadvantaged or something like that. I went to a public high school in the poorest county in Michigan, and still managed to graduate a semester early. My parents at the time had a combined salary of about $60k a year both working full time, so a free ride to college wasn't an option. I could still be at my high school taco bell job making minimum wage, but I made choices to apply myself, and provide a better life for myself and my family. I had just as many hurdles facing me as anyone else in this country, but I didn't make excuses about it, I just set out to find out what I could do, and I did it.

*knows that what I just posted will be unpopular with many here, but doesn't care.*

Jihadin wrote:Did you miss the sacrifice and time spent to get there piece?

Did you miss everything else in your own post??? You say young people are lazy because they want high paying job without work or sacrifice. Then you give me as an example. I mentionned my work as a busboy for two years as a suggestion to someone who said they had been unemployed for 2 years, since in my opinion working even an entry level job, in a well reputed place, is better than not working at all. How is that an indicator of my lazyness???

Not only did you fail the reading comprehension part of the test, you also managed to turn whatever you could take from it into an insult. 32% passing grade, heh? No frakking wonders...

djones520 wrote:I was making $7.50 an hour working as a meteorologist forecasting for 13 differant military installations in a 6 state area. I cannot argue that Burger Flipper McGee at McDonalds was doing work that was on par with mine, but he was making atleast equal if not better pay.

He also didn't have a mess to go to if needed, military discount, health insurance, preferred interest rates, ect ect. There are more benifits to a given job than just the salary, and I would bet that being in the armed forces has more perks than being a burger flipper. Of course the burger flipper won't be arrested if he decides not to work, and other little freedoms such as that.

Ahtman wrote:

djones520 wrote:I was making $7.50 an hour working as a meteorologist forecasting for 13 differant military installations in a 6 state area. I cannot argue that Burger Flipper McGee at McDonalds was doing work that was on par with mine, but he was making atleast equal if not better pay.

He also didn't have a mess to go to if needed, military discount, health insurance, preferred interest rates, ect ect. There are more benifits to a given job than just the salary, and I would bet that being in the armed forces has more perks than being a burger flipper. Of course the burger flipper won't be arrested if he decides not to work, and other little freedoms such as that.

Bingo. Burger Flipper didn't give up a good chunk of his rights (1st Amendment, etc...). Burger Flipper doesn't have to be ready to be sent to a place where people are actively trying to saw your head off with a rusty fork. Burger Flippers contract doesn't have a clause that you have to specifically sign saying your acknowledge that you may be asked to kill people in your line of work. Burger Flipper gets paid extra for working more then 40 hours a week. When I was making that pay, I was working 48 hours a week, with no time and a half.

d-usa wrote:

Jihadin wrote:Active life style doesn't mean your lazy. You spend like 4-5 hrs at a site (guessing) putting out a fire wearing a your gear and what not. I say you have pretty strong cardio. Heck I spend an hour in the morning doing unit PT and pretty much sit behind a desk all day...actually I use to. Currently I'm a bit busted up from an IED two years ago and still recovering. I'm not lazy though. I do enjoy my down time as much as anybody. Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX.

I was mostly replying to the "Obesity is an indicator of lazyness" argument that was being made by some.

My favorite fires were brush/grass fires. 6 hours of chasing after fires in a brush truck, digging firelines with rakes and showels, running away from the flames. Those were good times.

WEWT! Fire for the win! I loved my time in fire management, one of the hardest jobs I have ever done. People tap out because of the heat and exercise requirements all the time. We had guys that didn't make it past the first day on a fire many a time. I agree with your post about obesity does not equal lazyness, some of my co workers were rotund but pulled their share of work all season. It boils down to determination in a job like that. That type of job gave me satisfaction at the end of the day I did not get at other jobs as you could see the work you did rather than stacks of papers that keep coming in and out. Whenever someone in my area is looking for a job I point out the EFF (Emergency Fire Fighter) program nearby, some take it and love it, others wash out and want to work in air conditioning despite the pay.

Oh yeah, fire management over here takes people no experience necessary start at the bottom (9-13 dollars an hour is bottom depending on the position you apply for...not bad eh?) and a few years in you can have some quals a bit of a raise. Not for everybody, definitely not for the lazy. For the on topic portion of the comment, this type of work is seasonal for most of the workers. Unemployment for half of the year give or take a few months.

As for obesity, BMI is not a good measurement.

@KovnikObama, I think you are misreading Jihadin's post which is also quoted above. If I am not mistaken he is using you as the example of working jobs to get experience first like you did.

djones520 wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

djones520 wrote:I was making $7.50 an hour working as a meteorologist forecasting for 13 differant military installations in a 6 state area. I cannot argue that Burger Flipper McGee at McDonalds was doing work that was on par with mine, but he was making atleast equal if not better pay.

He also didn't have a mess to go to if needed, military discount, health insurance, preferred interest rates, ect ect. There are more benifits to a given job than just the salary, and I would bet that being in the armed forces has more perks than being a burger flipper. Of course the burger flipper won't be arrested if he decides not to work, and other little freedoms such as that.

Bingo. Burger Flipper didn't give up a good chunk of his rights (1st Amendment, etc...). Burger Flipper doesn't have to be ready to be sent to a place where people are actively trying to saw your head off with a rusty fork. Burger Flippers contract doesn't have a clause that you have to specifically sign saying your acknowledge that you may be asked to kill people in your line of work. Burger Flipper gets paid extra for working more then 40 hours a week. When I was making that pay, I was working 48 hours a week, with no time and a half.

Right. You signed a contract mitigating a very few of your first amendment rights. You might also be required to kill people or be in a position in which you would be indirectly responsible for the deaths of others. But you knew this when you signed on. You chose to accept the terms to limit your rights in order to gain the benefits of the job.

Likewise, a burger flipper limits his 1st amendment rights as well: He/she has only a limited capacity for free speech during the hours he/she works. He/she accepts that he/she might be injured in the job or subjected to abuse from customers in which case he/she will be eligible for worker's comp. So, in this manner, any worker limits their rights and accepts the responsibility to do things they would not ordinarily want to do (for example, cleaning toilets in a subway system) in exchange for pay. These workers are at least nominally aware of the contract that they're entering into. Just as you were. This makes your point of contention based on rights irrelevant-- it's a play across the field.

However, no modern U.S. corporation gives ordinary workers regular hours above 39 a week-- if they do that the employees are "full time" and must be given benefits and over time pay. It's easier and cheaper to hire a large rotating crew of expendable people than a small one of crucial people. It eliminates a significant margin of cost and provides overlap in schedules for conflict. To reiterate the point: a single minimum wage job by itself is not enough to live off of.

djones520 wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

djones520 wrote:I was making $7.50 an hour working as a meteorologist forecasting for 13 differant military installations in a 6 state area. I cannot argue that Burger Flipper McGee at McDonalds was doing work that was on par with mine, but he was making atleast equal if not better pay.

He also didn't have a mess to go to if needed, military discount, health insurance, preferred interest rates, ect ect. There are more benifits to a given job than just the salary, and I would bet that being in the armed forces has more perks than being a burger flipper. Of course the burger flipper won't be arrested if he decides not to work, and other little freedoms such as that.

Bingo. Burger Flipper didn't give up a good chunk of his rights (1st Amendment, etc...). Burger Flipper doesn't have to be ready to be sent to a place where people are actively trying to saw your head off with a rusty fork. Burger Flippers contract doesn't have a clause that you have to specifically sign saying your acknowledge that you may be asked to kill people in your line of work. Burger Flipper gets paid extra for working more then 40 hours a week. When I was making that pay, I was working 48 hours a week, with no time and a half.

The point isn't to create a false sense of superiority, but to realize that they aren't really comparable through only an hourly wage. Of course the burger flipper doesn't have to do all that stuff, but he also doesn't get the benefits either. The burger flipper also won't be able to get a no (or stupidly low) mortgage interest loan, college tuition, or any number of things that putting up with others do not. Terrorists want to kill all sorts of people, not just soldiers; you'll notice the victims of 9/11 and the Londom Train Bombing weren't service men and women. People volunteering for the service know that they are signing up for such scenarios, so it seems a bit odd to act like a martyr for having done it. It's like becoming a police officer and then complaining you have to deal with criminals.

Everybody knows that military service cannot be combared on a $ to $ basis with civilian jobs. There are a large number of benefits soldiers get in addition to their "hourly" pay as well as additional benefits after discharge.

J-Roc77 wrote:@KovnikObama, I think you are misreading Jihadin's post which is also quoted above. If I am not mistaken he is using you as the example of working jobs to get experience first like you did.

Honestly, if that's the meaning of it, then it's seriously poorly phrased :

'' [..] Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX. ''

When someone describes something, then immediatly uses the term 'Like', I'm assuming that it's a direct reference to what he was just describing.

I also doubt that given the fact the he could've simply replied : 'you misunderstood, I used you and Lordofhats as examples of the contrary'.

For feth's sake, I already have a bias against military types that I'm trying to work on, between that and the jarhead who came to talk to me this morning as I was taking a morning stroll in the park, completly cracked out of his mind, and who kept on repeating how great a person he was, and how lucky I was to talk to him, I'm not getting any better...

d-usa wrote:Everybody knows that military service cannot be combared on a $ to $ basis with civilian jobs. There are a large number of benefits soldiers get in addition to their "hourly" pay as well as additional benefits after discharge.

As my 7th grade science teacher put it (This was a few years ago, but this is a summarized version.)
"For 20 years of your life, the military will give you health benefits, housing, food, water, and at the age of 38 you can retire with a fat wallet and livable income, in exchange for this, you must trade the time most people consider the "Best" part of their lives for retiring 20 year early, and the chance that you won't make it out alive, I think of it as a fair trade."
He was a really cool guy, got fired, but that is ott.