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xeno99 wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:Folks Looking for a Wargame from Reaper... They have a couple.

Warlord is their fantasy game, and CAV is their mecha/sci-fi game. From what I've heard they are both pretty good.

Were any of the minis in the Kickstarter for those two games though? I'm completely ignorant of Reaper beyond using their mini's for DnD/Pathfinder games when I can afford them. Never tried out Bones, but I'm intrigued so far.

There are a few Warlord figures that made it to this project, but (as has been pointed out) we do tend to focus on RPG players who have been our Bread and Butter for years, so we weren't approaching this with the thought process of "convert our wargame to plastic" but with a "lets provide players and GMs with inexpensive models".

That being said, I do understand the concerns of those of you that are not pleased with our offerings, but am not sure that our goal structure can be revamped at this point without causing some frustration among those who have supported. At the end of the ordeal, these models will be available in retail stores, and can be ordered online in the manner you describe, perhaps that will be some amelioration?

Oh - and the $25 Sophie model is not 54mm, she is our standard character size, and she is not resin, but white metal. We are asking for more than we would normally because this is a fundraiser, and it's kind of like buying a $4 candybar that's $1 at the store. And although Sophie by herself is not the best value, we are offering a pack of figures (even minus the value of Sophie) that is 80 plastic figures for $100. I do totally get that not everybody wants this precise selection, though.

This is definitely a niche product, where the niche is RPGs, and perhaps this was the wrong audience for it, but we are trying to spread the word, and I do thank you all for giving it a look! I hope you will continue to be patient with us as I post updates here.

I'm definitely looking at pitching in for this. I'm generally a big fan of Reaper, and this certainly looks like terrific value. There are definitely some models in there that I wouldn't buy on their own, but I'm kind of comparing this set in my mind with like the D&D and Pathfinder minis cases, and I think this is the clear winner when it comes to value, especially when you consider the number of low level grunts of various kinds that are included.

Reaperbryan wrote:

That being said, I do understand the concerns of those of you that are not pleased with our offerings, but am not sure that our goal structure can be revamped at this point without causing some frustration among those who have supported. At the end of the ordeal, these models will be available in retail stores, and can be ordered online in the manner you describe, perhaps that will be some amelioration?

I realize that - but it's more fun (and presumably better for Reaper?) to sell them via the kickstarter no?

And would it maybe be possible to remove the "sold out" pledges to free up room to create new pledges for those of us who want in on the fun without being swamped with 50+ minis?

Sean_OBrien wrote:Reaper are generally good people to deal with. I am sure that if enough people are interested they would look seriously at accommodating their desires/needs in terms of what figures come at which price points (with in reason of course).

I will bring it up in our daily progress meeting tomorrow. What I am not sure of without discussing it with the rest of the board is whether new Pledge levels at this point in time would anger other supporters, who felt they were deceived by not being given /all/ the options. Gamers can be fickle, and we work hard to maintain community goodwill (except on Frother's, where my boss slings C*bombs with everybody else).

Apart from Scarletsquig's list of:
- No Sophie
- 30 kobolds
- 30 goblins
- 30 skeletons
- 20 orcs

would there be a better package that would appeal to the wargame audience that we aren't reaching now? Something that could be constructed form models you can see available in the KS now, or in our LE line (which will all be released as Bones also)?

^ It was just an idea, I really don't mind just buying them when they're released if adding a wargamer level is beyond the scope of what you're doing/ might anger existing backers. Just happy to see them get released!

Plus, it might be difficult to appeal to wargamers anyway, since a lot of the stretch goal freebies will be random characters anyway, and there is the issue that just having the one sculpt per race/weapon type might not be enough to get a lot of the wargamer crowd backing. It's possible that going for that angle might have had to be pre-planned rather than being something that you can add now (Like how sedition wars appealed to the wargamer market despite being a board game by providing alt. sculpts for existing mini types as stretch goals). There's definitely holes in the idea that I've thought of since suggesting it.

I already have a werewolf, ghost and ogre that I'm really happy with, and that dragon is an absolute definite buy when it is released, so you're not losing out either way.. really hard to buy your stuff in the UK, though.. there's only one webstore I know of that sells bones, and its always out of stock!

That bat swarm is going to be a huge hit with WHFB players, too.

Having fun trying to guess the stretch goals based on the gravestones at this point.

The big bat-winged one at the bottom seems like it is some giant demon of some sort.. then there's the one on the left that seems like its shaped like a paint bottle... then there's that giant mausoleum right at the end, which I'm presuming is a $500k goal?

Definitely one of the more fun images that I've seen made for a kickstarter, it really is like an advent calender!

Looks like there will be another dragon based on the tombstones as well...though it is a ways down the path in the graveyard. Shouldn't take too long to get their though - they have gotten $12K in the past 12 hours or so.

The real question is what is in the Mausoleum?

Reaperbryan wrote:

Apart from Scarletsquig's list ...

... or in our LE line (which will all be released as Bones also)?

Hi Reaperbryan !!

Thanks for posting here ... I, for one, appreciate it and reading what you have to say.

While not a response to the "Wargamer" content question, I want to add my ENTHUSIASTIC vote for adding Reaper's Townsfolk models into this kickstarter. Maybe as a stretch goal group of them. That would be FANTASTIC !!!

Also, since you mentioned Reaper's Legendary Encounters (LE) line, would Reaper ever consider doing a Kickstarter to ramp up production on that line if this Bones Kickstarter goes well ? It has potential but the pace of releases has been annoyingly slow.

All the best with this fundraiser. I'm in at Vampire (and counting)

Reaperbryan wrote:

Sean_OBrien wrote:Reaper are generally good people to deal with. I am sure that if enough people are interested they would look seriously at accommodating their desires/needs in terms of what figures come at which price points (with in reason of course).

I will bring it up in our daily progress meeting tomorrow. What I am not sure of without discussing it with the rest of the board is whether new Pledge levels at this point in time would anger other supporters, who felt they were deceived by not being given /all/ the options. Gamers can be fickle, and we work hard to maintain community goodwill (except on Frother's, where my boss slings C*bombs with everybody else)

Keep in mind - you can actually change your pledges at anytime between now and the end of the campaign (including backing out entirely). Shouldn't cause too many ruffled feathers if you introduce different levels/rewards.

In order to keep things a bit cleaner you can simply do add on sales. If they pledge $100 - they get the stuff for that level, but then they can also buy 2 dragons, 4 packs of skeletons...whatever they are after. Depending on how you work it - this could allow them to get their foot in with the low donation but then increase it substantially with a la carte additions. Kit should be able to sort it out pretty quick.

Sean_OBrien wrote:

Reaperbryan wrote:

Sean_OBrien wrote:Reaper are generally good people to deal with. I am sure that if enough people are interested they would look seriously at accommodating their desires/needs in terms of what figures come at which price points (with in reason of course).

I will bring it up in our daily progress meeting tomorrow. What I am not sure of without discussing it with the rest of the board is whether new Pledge levels at this point in time would anger other supporters, who felt they were deceived by not being given /all/ the options. Gamers can be fickle, and we work hard to maintain community goodwill (except on Frother's, where my boss slings C*bombs with everybody else)

Keep in mind - you can actually change your pledges at anytime between now and the end of the campaign (including backing out entirely). Shouldn't cause too many ruffled feathers if you introduce different levels/rewards.

In order to keep things a bit cleaner you can simply do add on sales. If they pledge $100 - they get the stuff for that level, but then they can also buy 2 dragons, 4 packs of skeletons...whatever they are after. Depending on how you work it - this could allow them to get their foot in with the low donation but then increase it substantially with a la carte additions. Kit should be able to sort it out pretty quick.

On this line of thinking - the mantic buy one get one free / a la carte option generated a ton of interest

I'm not sure it's worth it doing a repacking of rewards to try to get the few people who might be interested in 30 of a single sculpt or two.

Instead, I'd handle that with the a-la-carte options like Mantic did. Invite people to add more contributions rather than presenting options that weren't available at the time they made the decision to support you.

Never, ever, ever make those who went with an existing pledge level feel like they made a poor choice.

@ReaperBryan - just wanted to let you know posting here was definitely worthwhile. I contributed and I also emailed the link to a friend who contributed. And I just sent an email to my local shop that there's an option for retailers. They already have a couple Bones display racks and they're doing well among the Pathfinder players here. DakkaDakka might have started as a wargaming site, but it's definitley expanded and includes people with a wide variety of miniature interests, including RPGs and small model count skirmish games.

Yeah the mantic approach was pretty intelligent.

Slinky wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:theres already plenty of dungeon crawlers already. I'd rather have Reaper concentrate on their minis than rules

As someone who has backed this but hasn't got any games to use the figures with, can you name/recommend any, please?

The D&D Dungeon Crawler boardgames - Ravenloft, Ashardalon and Drizzt.
Descent.
Dungeon!
Heroquest.
Advanced Heroquest.
Warhammer Quest.
Dwarf King's Hold.
Munchkin Quest.

I'm sure there's a ton more, but these are ones I (mostly) have, and are a good start.

I would be really interested in a pledge level that includes just 1 of everything. So no dungeon box, and no Sophie. You just are guaranteed one of everything produced as part of the Kickstarter. A sort of, "Set and Forget" so you don't need to keep adding $10 here or there to get access to new stuff like the current Vampire level. Mantic had this at the $110 level, you just got 1 of everything new.

If people want to add anything additional like Sophie's, Dungeon packs or even just more of whatever is being produced in addition to the single model they get by default, those they can bolt on similar to what Mantic did with their add on options.

Myrthe wrote:

Reaperbryan wrote:

Apart from Scarletsquig's list ...

... or in our LE line (which will all be released as Bones also)?

Hi Reaperbryan !!

Thanks for posting here ... I, for one, appreciate it and reading what you have to say.

While not a response to the "Wargamer" content question, I want to add my ENTHUSIASTIC vote for adding Reaper's Townsfolk models into this kickstarter. Maybe as a stretch goal group of them. That would be FANTASTIC !!!

Also, since you mentioned Reaper's Legendary Encounters (LE) line, would Reaper ever consider doing a Kickstarter to ramp up production on that line if this Bones Kickstarter goes well ? It has potential but the pace of releases has been annoyingly slow.

All the best with this fundraiser. I'm in at Vampire (and counting)

I am strictly forbidden from revealing stretch goals except at the appropriate window - ie 2 revealed, one "free" and one Optional Buy in - but I can say that you should definitely keep your eyes on the map.

Regarding LE: Bones is more popular than LE has been, but the molds are the same molds. We were watching a pattern where a new mold for bones would happen only about once a year, like it had for LE for 5 years, and we really did not want that. but 5 years ago, we were unaware of Crowdfunding as a resource. So, what we've done is what we would have done with LE 5 years ago if we could - get enough molds for th line's own income to generate all restocks PLUS pay for regular and frequent new molds.

BUT I think your question is going to be answered more by this: Bones and LE are and will be symbiotic. Bones' first 29 SKU's will be the 29 figures on LE molds. The next 30+ figures come from molds bought from this kickstarter, which can then be used to ALSO make LE versions of the figures! We are actually having a Bones-->LE planning meeting next week, to determine the timeframe and cost of the transition, to determine whether that can be done in house now that mold expenses are greatly reduced, or whether a second KS is required.

$115K met - Ebonwrath is in. Working on the Big Bad Evil Guys.

Next up, we have two more giants – the Frost Giant King and Queen! They're each about 2.75" from tabletop to the tops of their heads, and are a perfect complement to the Fire Giants! When this level of funding is reached, you can get both of these amazing models just by increasing your Vampire or Undertaker Pledge by $10. That's right – BOTH figures for $10. Or Two of each for only $20! There's no limit with any of our Options on how many you can get!

I am guessing that the $135K will be met fairly quickly. One of the benefits of the $10 option figures is that when they are met - there should be a wave of increased pledges to add them into existing pledges. With a good 600 backers eligible to get Ebonwrath - I wouldn't be surprised if it made up another $5K on its own with the options.

Granted, you would have a similar effect with an a la carte system, just not in the same pulses.
_________

So the pattern seems to be little then big (with the big being a $10 option). There looks to be another dragon way down the path - if I had to guess it will be Gauth. That leaves 5 other big stretch goals and 7 small stretch goals (which haven't been met yet). It would be hard to hazard to guess what will be in the small goals - they have a huge catalog of small figures, and they mentioned a few new items as well (with a huge stable of sculptors to work with - it shouldn't be hard to throw in a couple surprises). I would guess probably a pack of dwarves and a pack of elves will be in there. Beyond that - I am really at a loss.

On the large side of things though, I wouldn't be surprised to see their Hill Giant and their Giant Ape. Both are very popular, except the price (which being giant lumps of metal which double as door stops is significant). Another good candidate would be the giant eagle. The goroloth thing is another popular figure with painters/collectors. Then likely one of their smaller blister dragons (still rather large - but small enough to be packed in blisters as opposed to boxes). Think those are pretty good guesses (still somewhat vague on the remaining dragon...and the possible small dragon) for the large stretch goals.

The mausoleum really makes me wonder though. It would be outstanding if that goal was reached and they had to go back for more options. If the steps hold up and the trending does as well - they should pass the Mausoleum sometime around the 13th of August...which will leave another week and a half of additional goals for them to fill. I think they could make significant inroads with their Warlord line if they were Bones material. It would open them up to more massed formations and what not. Units of cavalry for $10 per 3 or so - would be hard to resist.

Bit of speculation though I guess. Even if I was on with one or more of my guesses - Bryan wouldn't be able to confirm or deny it.

That's some pretty outstanding value on those Giants. I'm hoping that they can also start to create giant humanoids specifically for the Bones line - the current giants, nice as they are - are quite squat. Presumably largely because they need to stand under their own weight in metal. With plastics as in the Bones material, they should be able to open up to much larger figures (as we saw with GW's move from metal to plastic years ago, actually).

Just going to up my pledge to $200 now, and say a few days of nickle and dimeing with every other stretch goal.

The RPG group is going to love/hate this when it comes in...

scipio.au wrote:That's some pretty outstanding value on those Giants. I'm hoping that they can also start to create giant humanoids specifically for the Bones line - the current giants, nice as they are - are quite squat. Presumably largely because they need to stand under their own weight in metal. With plastics as in the Bones material, they should be able to open up to much larger figures (as we saw with GW's move from metal to plastic years ago, actually).

Weight might be part of the issue...though not a big factor. Their dragons are metal and some are huge with wings which weigh as much as the giants do. There are also several manufacturers of other types of figures who work in metal which are much taller and much slimmer.

I don't think you will see too many of them going much taller. Reaper bases a lot on what they can fit in a blister pack - and simply based on volume, it can't get too much bigger than these are. To make them look more imposing though, they often use poses like the ones these have where he is sort of half hunched over getting ready to smack something small...like a human. Keeping the size to something which can be blister packed and put on pegs is attractive to retailers which is good for their business.

You also have D&D to thank to some extent. The height figure which they give as well as the weight figure would indicate a stockier than a normal human build.

Sean_OBrien wrote:the pattern seems to be little then big (with the big being a $10 option). <SNIP>
Bit of speculation though I guess. Even if I was on with one or more of my guesses - Bryan wouldn't be able to confirm or deny it.

I can confirm that *some* of your guesses are spot on!

Also, the pattern is kind of more "one "add-on" then one "option" and we gave preference to Options that were Big than Options that were little figures. Most (but not all) of our options are these larger figures, under the thought process that they were a more expensive unit price, and we couldn't give one away for the same expense as giving 4 tiny dudes away.

Our packaging has up until dictated maximum size - although there s a factor of the fact that our casting machines will only hold molds of a certain size, and therefore we can only fit figures of x size or smaller on them. Now, this line has a larger limit on figure size that can fit on a mold, and we intend to create packaging that will accommodate the larger figures, so yes, you will likely see larger figures start being introduced at some point.

Should still present a pretty descent haul of miniatures for Vampire backers even without the options. Right now, you have the 30 new bones, 36 dungeon attack bones, 10 undead bones, 4 fighters and a Sophie - 81 miniatures for $100 ($125 for international orders). Just a touch under $1.20 per figure. I don't think there is too much doubt that another handful of the add-on stretch goals will be reached, so you will likely be at 100+ figures for $100 when it is all said and done with. Even if you only need half of them, $2 per figure isn't shabby at all.

With things like $10 dragons and $10 for 2 giants - it gets even better. Sure - they are a couple of inches shorter than the GW giant - but he looks anemic and spindly to my eye.

Then of course...you have that mausoleum...

Sean_OBrien wrote:
The mausoleum really makes me wonder though. It would be outstanding if that goal was reached and they had to go back for more options. If the steps hold up and the trending does as well - they should pass the Mausoleum sometime around the 13th of August...which will leave another week and a half of additional goals for them to fill.

Oh, and I should have said earlier - the mausoleum opens up and we get to see what's *under* it! (ok, it's another map..not just one more goal, but lots more!)

Just want to say; as a wargamer AND and a roleplayer, I really love Reaper. I'm way more excited by this KS then I was about Mantic's, too; I just like the figures more.

Bryan, I'm certainly glad you posted here. I wouldn't have heard of this thing otherwise.

Also, I've been eyeing those frost and fire giants for over a year now, but just haven't been able to get myself to cough up the necessary scratch. This is a deal too good to pass up, though!


edit: pledged in at $100! I'm going to wait a bit on options to see what else comes up. I'm definitely in on one of those giants sets, though. Probably ebonwrath too....

Bryan, I'd love to see a caster pack similar to that fighter pack....*cough*

Something that might be of interest to Ogre Kingdoms players:

The Fire giants and Frost Giants would make great Firebellies and Yhetees for Fantasy.

$40 gets you 2 firebellies, and 6 Yhetees, same price as a single finecast firebelly from GW.

They're nicer, bigger sculpts too (especially compared to the GW yhetees!), with superior casting quality.

Throw in a dragon (because lets face it, who *doesn't* want that dragon?) on top and that's a nice pile of swag for $150 even if you ignore all the stuff that comes with the vampire level.

$135K in and now working on the $155K Giants.



Elves posted for the $175K stretch, which look to include a couple of new figures which haven't been released in metal.

And now we're ready to show you what's under the next tombstone – How about some Elves! These aren't the kind of elf that makes toys at the North Pole or work for poverty-stricken shoemakers, these are fightin' elves! With gorgeous sculpts by Bobby Jackson and Jeff Grace, PLUS two brand new elves (concept art by Talin) this pack is a must have for every Bones collection – and what's best, it'll be added automatically to your Vampire or Undertaker pledge as soon as we reach this goal!

Remember, tell your friends about this – let's get these amazing rewards made, and available for sale at every game store in the world! There's something in Bones for everybody – inexpensive heroes and villains for RPG play, low price monsters and humanoids for wargamers, and gorgeous works of art by the most talented sculptors in the business for collecting, painting, converting, and display! Heck, you can even use these as tokens for board games – I mean, who wants to be a Shoe, really? Shouldn't Ms. Scarlet be a Sorceress?

Assuming a relatively stable progression in the targets for stretch goals, if contributes continue at around $10,000 a day, we'll eventually get to see what is available in the whole Bones advent calender.

Honestly - I am actually thinking that this will break the record (for this genre) set by McVey. Right now they are out pacing that KS campaign by almost double where they were at the same point. The last few days of this campaign should see 7 digits.

If the spacing between the stretch goals remains constant - that would mean all of this map, all of the next map and a good portion of a third map (assuming they are the same sized maps of course - 20 stretch goals per map). If half of the goals are free add-ons of around 4 figures each, that would mean an additional 200 or so figures for Vampire backers.

Granted - that is a lot of assumption, but I am willing to make that wager.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One other nice thing which I noticed that might be of interest to some:

http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?/topic/45093-does-this-kickstarter-mean-that-bones-made-in-texas/

Like most of these plastics - they are currently made in China. However, they seem to be looking at moving the manufacturing from there to the US.

Sean_OBrien wrote:
One other nice thing which I noticed that might be of interest to some:

http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?/topic/45093-does-this-kickstarter-mean-that-bones-made-in-texas/

Like most of these plastics - they are currently made in China. However, they seem to be looking at moving the manufacturing from there to the US.

I'd like to see these moved over here, and the services added to Repaer's already existing casting services.