Rules for a Halo Spartan

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**chrisrawr**

Your last point observes an extreme ignorance of the later halo novels.

The collegia titanica is NOTHING; 5-12 LEGIONS of THOUSANDS OF TITANS EACH accompanied the colonyships (worldships). Read up on the Iron Men A.I.

Warp travel =//= Warp Access. The Golden Throne was going to be Mankind's Warp Access, which would've bumped them into a similar position to the old ones.

The Scout and the Spartan observe MASSIVELY different roles. Again, the Spartan is more akin to the Vindicare in role, and the GK in secrecy.

AoS is when tech was slapped down and ground into the dirt. It didn't truly die until the emperor's reign and crusade was brought to an end; with no progressive entity to hold back the millennia of horrendously cliqueish and petty reggressionists, the IoM quickly diverted back to almost grotesquely conservative idioms.

There are no complete STCs known; the last useful one was daggers iirc.

**ObliviousBlueCaboose**

chrisrawr wrote:Your last point observes an extreme ignorance of the later halo novels.

Perhaps, doesn't change the fact that the supposed Superior Covie plasma has the same effect as the lasgun in the fluff.

The collegia titanica is NOTHING; 5-12 LEGIONS of THOUSANDS OF TITANS EACH accompanied the colonyships (worldships). Read up on the Iron Men A.I.

Iron Men are not Titains, and where created before the AoS. Titans however where created by Mars during the AoS and where later sent in about the same strength in a Legion as they are in present 40k fluff.

Warp travel =//= Warp Access. The Golden Throne was going to be Mankind's Warp Access, which would've bumped them into a similar position to the old ones.

Oh Webway portals. They don't access the warp at all iirc.

The Scout and the Spartan observe MASSIVELY different roles. Again, the Spartan is more akin to the Vindicare in role, and the GK in secrecy.

A Spartan is a shock trooper trained in infiltration. Not an assassin.

AoS is when tech was slapped down and ground into the dirt. It didn't truly die until the emperor's reign and crusade was brought to an end; with no progressive entity to hold back the millennia of horrendously cliqueish and petty reggressionists, the IoM quickly diverted back to almost grotesquely conservative idioms.

The IoM has to rely on the Admech as per the Treaty of Mars, which was signed by Big E himself, so again your fluff is a little off.

There are no complete STCs known; the last useful one was daggers iirc.

Yeah but their are a bunch of semi complete archives that have information that the AdMEch uses.

**chrisrawr**

Covie plas was the least useful version. Cortana increased the efficiency of a covie warship's plasma (from giant space lasguns, to giant space multi-meltas) simply by optimizing the firing routines when she was 2 - imagine mankind's progress with 6 years of R&R in between.

Iron Men were the AIs that inhabited the millions of titans. http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/warhammer-40k-the-men-of-iron.201870/#post6592186

As well, AoS Titans are much larger and more powerful than modern imperator titans.

The Big E signed it, but the Void Dragon has influenced everything since emps bit it. The big E also signed with the power to direct and change it - power that has been lost because he's DEEAAAAAAAD like batman's parents. The Stone Men were given reign an that reign is in the hands of the big VD, chuckling up a thunder on mars.

**Buttons**

Kasrkin229 wrote:
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:So my brother and I where discussing Halo and he asked me what a Stat line of a Spartan would be. I thought about it for a bit and heres what I came up with.

WS: 4 BS: 4 S: 4 T: 4 INT: 4 A: 1 Ld: 8 Sv: 4+/6++

It was really hard deciding if they would be S/T 3 or 4 since a there isnt a scale for high 3 or low 4. So for now their on the low end of 4 but still a 4. WS 4 since they're trained in H2H. same for BS. Tho again I had a tough time for wither 3 or 4.

The save may sound off to Halo fans, but the UNSC is a lower tech then the Imperium. The Standard Flak vest can stop a direct hit from a .50 Cal machine gun. (what a Heavy Stubber is) Basic marine armor can't and I'm pretty sure ODST armor can't either, but I'm being generous. So basically the Spartan is a better WS/BS Scout with a 6++. I'm thinking maybe 13ppm.

Weagear: Battle Rifle: Str 3 AP - 24in Rapid Fire. or SMG/ Assault Rifle Str 3 AP - 18in Assault 2. Frag Grenades. CCW. Pistol ( Str 3 12in Pistol)

, Really Quick a Item of Flak Armor can't stop a .50 equivilent , same for the UNSC armor , ( spartan Armor can - Read " The fall of Reach " John 117 is hit by 20mm cannons on a AT aircraft , .50 cal = 12.7mm ) Generally , the Flak Armor is ment to Absorb ( wait for it ) Flak from explosives and is designed to distribute heat to minimize penetrative powers from a Lasgun , UNSC armor both for MArines and ODST's later in hte Human covenent war was designed with hte same goal in mind , to Distribute Heat to minimize Penetrating Powers of the Enemies Weapons . Now even if you argue that flak Armor can stop a .50 cal , the wearer would be immediately incapacitated , the shot would deliver enough Kinetic energy to Break every bone around the point of impact , if you are hit in the chest ,your organs suffer massive Hemorging . , Now the UNSC Standard Rifles fire roughly the same Equivilent to what the M14 Battle Rifle fires which is close to .308 . A .308 is capable of going though several cinderblocks in the Right conditions , I would say in an Equal Unit fight ( Platoon v Platoon ) the UNSC would have a Fighting Chance givine that 1) Their Firearms do not produce the " Stream" as lasguns do 2) Supeiror Training to most IG forces ( short of Stormtroopers ) Being that the UNSC is Trained on a very strict Regimented Doctrine 3) Given the " Age of Darkness" Is when the Majority of the Imperiums Tech was lost , the power pack on the Spartan armor is actually MORE efficant then the Space Marine Power Packs , Granted the Requirements are much differnt but the Space Marines have to change coolant cells every 25-60 Years ( Black Templars novel on Armegeddon also with the Crimson Fist on Ryans world ) where as Spartan Armor has never had to had it's power pack replaced , now in Terms of a Spartan vs a Space Marine , it stands largely in Favor of the Space Marine because of superior components in the Armor , but the Spartan would be FAR more Agile able to strike and PArry quickly . Im Not saying that it would be an Even fight with the UNSC vs the IG but they would have a fighting chance , now , I would Rate the Spartan Armor honestly a 4+ save because its components are FAR better then standard guard Equipment , ( keep in mind 6+ is Ork Armor = Leather Strappings ) and the energy Sheild of the Spartans would reduce the Strength of the Incoming attack ( by 2 Lets say ) and the AP on a roll of 6 to " - " Because the Energy Sheild is Designed ( Also in the Fall of Reach ) to Disperse direct weapons's impacts in reflecting the energy outward ( similar to how the Buffulo Mine Protection Vehical directs the Blast Away from the Under Carrage ) Over all in terms of Strength And Weapon skill i agree with but im thinking Initive would be closer to 5 ( keep in mind 7 is GeneStealer and normal Humans can kill them ) --- I would more so rather hope you consider this ( PASSED AIRBORNE SCHOOL !!!!! ) and i would how this helped a bit ,

Paragraphs bro, use paragraphs.

**Kasrkin229**

Buttons wrote:
Kasrkin229 wrote:
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:So my brother and I where discussing Halo and he asked me what a Stat line of a Spartan would be. I thought about it for a bit and heres what I came up with.

WS: 4 BS: 4 S: 4 T: 4 INT: 4 A: 1 Ld: 8 Sv: 4+/6++

It was really hard deciding if they would be S/T 3 or 4 since a there isnt a scale for high 3 or low 4. So for now their on the low end of 4 but still a 4. WS 4 since they're trained in H2H. same for BS. Tho again I had a tough time for wither 3 or 4.

The save may sound off to Halo fans, but the UNSC is a lower tech then the Imperium. The Standard Flak vest can stop a direct hit from a .50 Cal machine gun. (what a Heavy Stubber is) Basic marine armor can't and I'm pretty sure ODST armor can't either, but I'm being generous. So basically the Spartan is a better WS/BS Scout with a 6++. I'm thinking maybe 13ppm.

Weagear: Battle Rifle: Str 3 AP - 24in Rapid Fire. or SMG/ Assault Rifle Str 3 AP - 18in Assault 2. Frag Grenades. CCW. Pistol ( Str 3 12in Pistol)

, Really Quick a Item of Flak Armor can't stop a .50 equivilent , same for the UNSC armor , ( spartan Armor can - Read " The fall of Reach " John 117 is hit by 20mm cannons on a AT aircraft , .50 cal = 12.7mm ) Generally , the Flak Armor is ment to Absorb ( wait for it ) Flak from explosives and is designed to distribute heat to minimize penetrative powers from a Lasgun , UNSC armor both for MArines and ODST's later in hte Human covenent war was designed with hte same goal in mind , to Distribute Heat to minimize Penetrating Powers of the Enemies Weapons . Now even if you argue that flak Armor can stop a .50 cal , the wearer would be immediately incapacitated , the shot would deliver enough Kinetic energy to Break every bone around the point of impact , if you are hit in the chest ,your organs suffer massive Hemorging . , Now the UNSC Standard Rifles fire roughly the same Equivilent to what the M14 Battle Rifle fires which is close to .308 . A .308 is capable of going though several cinderblocks in the Right conditions , I would say in an Equal Unit fight ( Platoon v Platoon ) the UNSC would have a Fighting Chance givine that 1) Their Firearms do not produce the " Stream" as lasguns do 2) Supeiror Training to most IG forces ( short of Stormtroopers ) Being that the UNSC is Trained on a very strict Regimented Doctrine 3) Given the " Age of Darkness" Is when the Majority of the Imperiums Tech was lost , the power pack on the Spartan armor is actually MORE efficant then the Space Marine Power Packs , Granted the Requirements are much differnt but the Space Marines have to change coolant cells every 25-60 Years ( Black Templars novel on Armegeddon also with the Crimson Fist on Ryans world ) where as Spartan Armor has never had to had it's power pack replaced , now in Terms of a Spartan vs a Space Marine , it stands largely in Favor of the Space Marine because of superior components in the Armor , but the Spartan would be FAR more Agile able to strike and PArry quickly . Im Not saying that it would be an Even fight with the UNSC vs the IG but they would have a fighting chance , now , I would Rate the Spartan Armor honestly a 4+ save because its components are FAR better then standard guard Equipment , ( keep in mind 6+ is Ork Armor = Leather Strappings ) and the energy Sheild of the Spartans would reduce the Strength of the Incoming attack ( by 2 Lets say ) and the AP on a roll of 6 to " - " Because the Energy Sheild is Designed ( Also in the Fall of Reach ) to Disperse direct weapons's impacts in reflecting the energy outward ( similar to how the Buffulo Mine Protection Vehical directs the Blast Away from the Under Carrage ) Over all in terms of Strength And Weapon skill i agree with but im thinking Initive would be closer to 5 ( keep in mind 7 is GeneStealer and normal Humans can kill them ) --- I would more so rather hope you consider this ( PASSED AIRBORNE SCHOOL !!!!! ) and i would how this helped a bit ,

Paragraphs bro, use paragraphs.

army gave me a Rifle and a Degree in Military Science not an English book lol

**Lotet**

relentless, shouldn't the Spartans have this rule? it's hard to tell because I do stop and aim with Sniper Rifles, Spartan Lasers and the Battle Rifle but as they can Move - Fire Rocket Launcher - Throw Grenade - Bash Head I figure Relentless fits. with an ability to take an opponents or allies weapon this makes them reliably versatile.

24" range when firing relentlessly?

**Buttons**

Lotet wrote:relentless, shouldn't the Spartans have this rule? it's hard to tell because I do stop and aim with Sniper Rifles, Spartan Lasers and the Battle Rifle but as they can Move - Fire Rocket Launcher - Throw Grenade - Bash Head I figure Relentless fits. with an ability to take an opponents or allies weapon this makes them reliably versatile.

24" range when firing relentlessly?

No, whether they can do it in fluff or not doesn't matter, on TT they shouldn't for balance purposes.

**Lotet**

fluff? I was talking about the game. I barely know anything about the fluff but I have shot and bashed people with every weapon in the game (except for the turrets).

but just so we're clear, is it taking weapons or being Relentless you hate? or both?

**chrisrawr**

To be clear Lotet, half the people here are against Spartans being able to do anything on the TT that Marines can't, without acknowledging or with cognitive dissonance towards the whole, "Marines are not well-represented."

**Lotet**

oh, well. that sounds reasonable. but they're different types of warriors. reminds me of some thing where in the old rules it was assumed that when people with special weapons were killed it was assumed that an ally picked it up. then it was accepted that they didn't pick up the weapon because they didn't have the specialized training for it but Space Marines are supposed to share and pass around the special weapon between fights, though they don't do this.

how about the Spartans are Toughness 3 with 2 wounds and a 4+ Armour Save. statistically speaking it would take 8 Lasgun hits to take that down but a Space Marine would take 9 hits. probably have that new "it will not die" rule where they regain a wound on a 5+. Strength 4 is fine because we know they can smash things, as long as they don't have too many attacks.

taking tanks is something that you can't give an accurate points value on and I don't think they need it.

as for Leadership. Space Marines may be extremely experienced but they already have 'And They Shall Know No Fear' and can easily become Stubborn if they wanted. I'd say it's perfectly acceptable to have a higher Leadership or a similar rule.

as for weapons, well there's too many variables and the enemies don't use weapons in the same way as Master Chief i.e. they don't Run & Gun like the Chief does, so it's hard to say what they should be.

am I adding to the stupidity?

**chrisrawr**

Taking tanks has precedence in the necrons codex.

You're proposing reasonable things, but that half of the argument will say "no" to W2 and IWND.

**Buttons**

Lotet wrote:fluff? I was talking about the game. I barely know anything about the fluff but I have shot and bashed people with every weapon in the game (except for the turrets).

but just so we're clear, is it taking weapons or being Relentless you hate? or both?

Relentless. Spartans should be able to take stuff like the Spartan Laser (maybe like a slightly weaker lascannon), but they shouldn't be able to run around shooting them at their full BS.

**TheCaptain**

Eugh. I can't even read this thread more than a couple posts. Comparing stats to fluff is ridiculous, simply because of how hilariously inaccurate they are. You clearly hold the stance that Space Marines are power superhumans with decades of experience, but your problem is you think their statline reflects that. Well, no. It doesn't. Space marines have the same BS as Guard Veterans (who may have been serving for just a couple campaigns). They have two hearts, are hulking masses of flesh, heal insanely fast, but have 1W. Bottom line, SM's statline doesn't represent them, and should be ignored for the sake of comparison.

Guardsmen are a fair building block. You can't take a super-human deathwarrior and build down to make fair stats. You need to take the average, unimpressive human and build up.

Spartans have inhuman precision, with a rifle. Not superhuman, not abhuman, inhuman. They actually focus on accuracy and precise, guerrilla warfare, because there are never HUNDREDS of them fighting.

BS5

The Spartans are adept enough to defeat the best hand-to-hand fighters in melee. Not by a mile, but they are the best hand-to-hand fighters, and would surpass GEQ.

WS4

Spartans can flip tanks and rip turrets off. They can kill most biological creatures in a few strikes, though not likely ID.

S5

Spartans are more resistant to damage and wounds by human standards, remarkably so, but not by much on 40k standards

T4

The Spartan, though impressive, can still only withstand as much structural damage as the normal human, maybe strands more.

W1

Spartans are fast and agile enough to out-speed and out-strike humans, but that's about it.

I4
A3

They are devout warmachines conditioned to not feel fear, simple as that.

LD9
ATSKNF

I actually disagree with the 3+ armour save. I think a Scout equivalent save is good, if a bit lackluster, but the shield is represented with a FNP save. Though not traditionally medicine-related, it shows it well, and is ignored by S8 and up, ie. Krak Missiles, which makes sense.

Sv 4+
FNP 4+

Spartans should be an HQ unit of up to 4 models, 20 points each. Your wargear seems fine enough where I don't care to touch upon it.

**BlaxicanX**

Kasrkin229 wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:You didn't prove it because by your own admission your equation is based off of an assumption. What makes you think that Sniper rifles are universally equal? In Contact: Harvest, Sargent Johnson explains that the sniper rifle he's using launches rounds that move at some crazy velocity like mach 50, and the round was powerful enough to punch through two skyscrapers and still hit its target with enough force to make the guy literally explode and cover a hundred foot radius in gore. Does that sound like its comparable to the sniper rifles we see in WH40K, or most fiction for that matter?

Furthermore, you're using game mechanics to attempt to prove your point. The game's mechanics do not accurately represent the fluff in either universe.

Really quick actuall in Contact Harvets with Johnson his words were " Powerful Enough to go though 15 feet of Flesh and Bone " ......... thats more accurate to a mordern .50 cal sniper rifle .....if your gonna rage be smart about it , and Actually that particualr rifle you are refering to is a Railgun , with Explosive Squash Head rounds , Not a Sniper Rifle , simpliy a Antitank tool adopted to Antipersonel use

The round goes through a skyscraper and then makes the guy literally explode. So, you're incorrect. As well, how am I raging? Did I make insults? Curse? You're too sensitive.

**ObliviousBlueCaboose**

Lotet wrote:oh, well. that sounds reasonable. but they're different types of warriors. reminds me of some thing where in the old rules it was assumed that when people with special weapons were killed it was assumed that an ally picked it up. then it was accepted that they didn't pick up the weapon because they didn't have the specialized training for it but Space Marines are supposed to share and pass around the special weapon between fights, though they don't do this.

Ithought of this, since no other unit in the gmae can do this, so i didnt include it for game balance.

how about the Spartans are Toughness 3 with 2 wounds and a 4+ Armour Save. statistically speaking it would take 8 Lasgun hits to take that down but a Space Marine would take 9 hits. probably have that new "it will not die" rule where they regain a wound on a 5+. Strength 4 is fine because we know they can smash things, as long as they don't have too many attacks.

This could work.

taking tanks is something that you can't give an accurate points value on and I don't think they need it.

Right. Also in the fluff I've read Guardsmen taking tanks over. Its a cool thing that doesn't fit in the story.

as for Leadership. Space Marines may be extremely experienced but they already have 'And They Shall Know No Fear' and can easily become Stubborn if they wanted. I'd say it's perfectly acceptable to have a higher Leadership or a similar rule.

I posted this in the rules already. It got lost in the flurry of arguements.

as for weapons, well there's too many variables and the enemies don't use weapons in the same way as Master Chief i.e. they don't Run & Gun like the Chief does, so it's hard to say what they should be.

Exactly.

am I adding to the stupidity?

Nope.

A big part of this is that chrisrawr and I apparently have different views on views on how Spartans should be created in 40K. Chrisrawr obviously believes that it should be a "Movie Marine" style Spartan, and Marines, and will ignore the already established marine stats. I feel that the Spartans should fit in to the already created stats. The closest thing to a Spartan is a Space Marine Scout. They almost have the same skills, and job. With this as a starting point I use it to create a "Table-Top" Style Spartan.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheCaptain wrote:Eugh. I can't even read this thread more than a couple posts. Comparing stats to fluff is ridiculous, simply because of how hilariously inaccurate they are. You clearly hold the stance that Space Marines are power superhumans with decades of experience, but your problem is you think their statline reflects that. Well, no. It doesn't. Space marines have the same BS as Guard Veterans (who may have been serving for just a couple campaigns). They have two hearts, are hulking masses of flesh, heal insanely fast, but have 1W. Bottom line, SM's statline doesn't represent them, and should be ignored for the sake of comparison.

However its the statline they are given in game. I'm not here to change the game, or make movie marines. I made a spartan so they can fit inside the already established game design.

Guardsmen are a fair building block. You can't take a super-human deathwarrior and build down to make fair stats. You need to take the average, unimpressive human and build up.

Okay we'll see where this is going

Spartans have inhuman precision, with a rifle. Not superhuman, not abhuman, inhuman. They actually focus on accuracy and precise, guerrilla warfare, because there are never HUNDREDS of them fighting.

BS5

Not necessarily inhume, the basic Lord Commissar has BS5 as does Guardsmen Marbo.

The Spartans are adept enough to defeat the best hand-to-hand fighters in melee. Not by a mile, but they are the best hand-to-hand fighters, and would surpass GEQ.

WS4

Agreed

Spartans can flip tanks and rip turrets off. They can kill most biological creatures in a few strikes, though not likely ID.

S5

See regular marine in fluff can do this as well, which is why I made the Spartans S4

Spartans are more resistant to damage and wounds by human standards, remarkably so, but not by much on 40k standards

T4

Agreed

The Spartan, though impressive, can still only withstand as much structural damage as the normal human, maybe strands more.

W1

Agreed

Spartans are fast and agile enough to out-speed and out-strike humans, but that's about it.

I4
A3

I4 is good, but I'm not sure on attacks. GW design represnt attacks on speed it seems, its more "if your a regular soldier you get 1, If your a Sgt. 2, and if your a Commander 3."
I was designing Spartans to be a regular soldier. But I guess I could bump them up to A2 as a compromise.

They are devout warmachines conditioned to not feel fear, simple as that.

LD9
ATSKNF

Right I put ATSKNF in their Special Rules.

I actually disagree with the 3+ armour save. I think a Scout equivalent save is good, if a bit lackluster, but the shield is represented with a FNP save. Though not traditionally medicine-related, it shows it well, and is ignored by S8 and up, ie. Krak Missiles, which makes sense.

A 4+ with a 5+ FNP would be acceptable.

Sv 4+
FNP 4+

Spartans should be an HQ unit of up to 4 models, 20 points each. Your wargear seems fine enough where I don't care to touch upon it.

**kcwm**

Being a pretty big fan of the Halo series, and having read a few Halo books, I have to agree with TheCaptain, with ObliviousBlueCaboose's change to be S4.

MAYBE an elite slot, or HQ, as they weren't designed to be what would be considered troops in the 40k universe.

**doc1234**

kcwm wrote:Being a pretty big fan of the Halo series, and having read a few Halo books, I have to agree with TheCaptain, with ObliviousBlueCaboose's change to be S4.

MAYBE an elite slot, or HQ, as they weren't designed to be what would be considered troops in the 40k universe.

As said Troops would be closer to S3s, the S2s (chief, kelly etc) should have the better stats proposed and fill an elite roll, or a HQ squadron

**kinratha**

I Tired of this... Obviously, you two can't agree on this. I personally think that a "Spartan 2" is different form a "Spartan 3'.
A "Space Marine" is Different for a "Space Marine Officer"
(Sgt., Lt.,ect.)

So plus I want to make this clear. The MBT for the UNSC (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/M808B_Main_Battle_Tank)
its considered a "Light tank" and it has a 90mm cannon on it.
Now In WW2 The MBT for America was the M4 Sherman which had a 50mm cannon on it for Anti-infantry or 90mm cannon on it for AT, now the 90 bounced off of the German Panther, Tiger ect. (Granted there are times that they scored hits and pens but point stands). In Halo Spartans are killed out right by a direct hit for the 90mm cannon off the M808B. Power armor has withstood shots for a 90mm cannon.

Also a spartan takes a wile to Punch a tank to death. And that the light tanks, halo never had any heavy or medium tanks so we can't say a spartan can push a LRBT to death or even a chimaria.

and I forgot to quote this but, IG are trained alot better then the USMC, its just not represented in TT.

Ps. http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/BR55HB_SR_Battle_Rifle They don't fire explosive rounds.....

**doc1234**

kinratha wrote:I Tired of this... Obviously, you two can't agree on this. I personally think that a "Spartan 2" is different form a "Spartan 3'.
A "Space Marine" is Different for a "Space Marine Officer"
(Sgt., Lt.,ect.)

So plus I want to make this clear. The MBT for the UNSC (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/M808B_Main_Battle_Tank)
its considered a "Light tank" and it has a 90mm cannon on it.
Now In WW2 The MBT for America was the M4 Sherman which had a 50mm cannon on it for Anti-infantry or 90mm cannon on it for AT, now the 90 bounced off of the German Panther, Tiger ect. (Granted there are times that they scored hits and pens but point stands). In Halo Spartans are killed out right by a direct hit for the 90mm cannon off the M808B. Power armor has withstood shots for a 90mm cannon.

Also a spartan takes a wile to Punch a tank to death. And that the light tanks, halo never had any heavy or medium tanks so we can't say a spartan can push a LRBT to death or even a chimaria.

and I forgot to quote this but, IG are trained alot better then the USMC, its just not represented in TT.

Ps. http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/BR55HB_SR_Battle_Rifle They don't fire explosive rounds.....

As iv been saying the two are different, S2 was a project to make elite supersoldiers from the genetic top percentile, so much to that even the projects washouts were kept on as advisers etc because they were that valuable (not the same as the dreadnought think, but gets the point across)
S3 was the attempt to mass produce them. "Disposable Heroes" (namely still children for the most part), in a lighter variant of the armour similar to SM scout armour (as in no shield but with a stealth field instead).

On table, for an S3, a 4+ save with stealth should be more than adequate. Am i wrong?

**kinratha**

doc1234 wrote:
kinratha wrote:I Tired of this... Obviously, you two can't agree on this. I personally think that a "Spartan 2" is different form a "Spartan 3'.
A "Space Marine" is Different for a "Space Marine Officer"
(Sgt., Lt.,ect.)

So plus I want to make this clear. The MBT for the UNSC (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/M808B_Main_Battle_Tank)
its considered a "Light tank" and it has a 90mm cannon on it.
Now In WW2 The MBT for America was the M4 Sherman which had a 50mm cannon on it for Anti-infantry or 90mm cannon on it for AT, now the 90 bounced off of the German Panther, Tiger ect. (Granted there are times that they scored hits and pens but point stands). In Halo Spartans are killed out right by a direct hit for the 90mm cannon off the M808B. Power armor has withstood shots for a 90mm cannon.

Also a spartan takes a wile to Punch a tank to death. And that the light tanks, halo never had any heavy or medium tanks so we can't say a spartan can push a LRBT to death or even a chimaria.

and I forgot to quote this but, IG are trained alot better then the USMC, its just not represented in TT.

Ps. http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/BR55HB_SR_Battle_Rifle They don't fire explosive rounds.....

As iv been saying the two are different, S2 was a project to make elite supersoldiers from the genetic top percentile, so much to that even the projects washouts were kept on as advisers etc because they were that valuable (not the same as the dreadnought think, but gets the point across)
S3 was the attempt to mass produce them. "Disposable Heroes" (namely still children for the most part), in a lighter variant of the armour similar to SM scout armour (as in no shield but with a stealth field instead).

On table, for an S3, a 4+ save with stealth should be more than adequate. Am i wrong?

I agree.

**ObliviousBlueCaboose**

Sure a S3 would have almost the same stats. Really their would be no real difference between the two in 40k stats. Maybe drop a s3 to S3 and T3?

**Matt.Kingsley**

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:So my brother and I where discussing Halo and he asked me what a Stat line of a Spartan would be. I thought about it for a bit and heres what I came up with.

WS: 4 BS: 4 S: 4 T: 4 INT: 4 A: 1 Ld: 8 Sv: 4+/6++

It was really hard deciding if they would be S/T 3 or 4 since a there isnt a scale for high 3 or low 4. So for now their on the low end of 4 but still a 4. WS 4 since they're trained in H2H. same for BS. Tho again I had a tough time for wither 3 or 4.

The save may sound off to Halo fans, but the UNSC is a lower tech then the Imperium. The Standard Flak vest can stop a direct hit from a .50 Cal machine gun. (what a Heavy Stubber is) Basic marine armor can't and I'm pretty sure ODST armor can't either, but I'm being generous. So basically the Spartan is a better WS/BS Scout with a 6++. I'm thinking maybe 13ppm.

Weagear: Battle Rifle: Str 3 AP - 24in Rapid Fire. or SMG/ Assault Rifle Str 3 AP - 18in Assault 2. Frag Grenades. CCW. Pistol ( Str 3 12in Pistol)

Hmm, while I like it, not too OP but not too UP, maybe change it a bit so all the 'OMFG HALO IS FETHING BETTER THAN ANY OTHER SCI-FI EVER HURR DURR' fans can at least be a bit happy
So maybe
WS: 4 BS: 4 S: 4 T: 4 INT: 4 A: 2 Ld: 9 Sv: 4+/5++

Special Rules:
FNP(6+)
ATSKNF

Wargear:
Armour (Haven't played any halo games so I'm not sure what the name of the armour spartans use are...):
Grants a re-rollable 4+ armour save
Sheilding:
Grants a 5+ Invunerable Save. If failed, the next time it is used all successful results must be re-rolled
Battle Rifle:
Str 3 AP 6 24inch Salvo 1/3
Frag Grenades
Demo Charge
CCW
Pistol:
Str 3 AP - 12inch Pistol

May replace the battle rifle with one or two SMG's...2pts per SMG
SMG:
Str 3 AP 6 18inch Salvo 2/4 Combat* Gunslinger**
Combat* Counts as a CCW in assault
Gunslinger** See BRB, under 'Pistols'

**liquidjoshi**

You realise a re rollable 4+ is better against small arms fire than a 3+ right? How many AP3 weapons are there?

**doc1234**

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Sure a S3 would have almost the same stats. Really their would be no real difference between the two in 40k stats. Maybe drop a s3 to S3 and T3?

That could work. i was thining the stat difference there because litterly the size of the S3s, unless their played as adults (in which case the S and T would be the same, not sure about the rest)

**chrisrawr**

@Joshi Too many. AP3 is supposed to be special, even as a Tau player I know that

**liquidjoshi**

Really? I can think of 5 ranged AP3 weapons off the top of my head. There are, granted, more with Power weapons now being AP3, but that's balanced by the large amount of players modelling axes instead for AP2.

So, my point is, why is the spartan better than a SM vs small arms, but worse vs higher calibre weaponry? It makes no sense logically.

**chrisrawr**

Renewable shields DESIGNED to be resistant to small-arms fire vs armour DESIGNED for space-work that ablates against it.

The amount of AP4 weapons also makes up for it, and as a tau player with a sizable firewarrior gunline, I should know.

There should be very few dedicated AP3 weapons; of those that exist, they should be close-range anti-assault weapons for dealing with shock troopers, like marines and incubi.

AP2/1 is anti-tank, and so we know why there's lots of those.

AP4 is for taking out heavy infantry - like fire warriors and carapace armour.

**Buttons**

chrisrawr wrote:@Joshi Too many. AP3 is supposed to be special, even as a Tau player I know that

And they are, the only real AP 3 weapons are either anti-vehicle weapons like Krak Missiles, or specialized weapons that every army has like HSLG, Vengence Bolter Rounds, the Vespid guns, 1K sons. Now, AP 2/1 weapons, those are everywhere, plasma guns and meltaguns can be given out like candy on Halloween especially if you run IG vets, Vindicators and Demolishers are quite cheap, everyone can field some relatively common long ranged AP 2/1 weapon, like railguns or lascannons. I once tried to make a 2K Guard list to spam as many plasma guns as possible. Fairly certain I got like 50 plasma guns, which outnumbered lasguns for overall numbers.

**liquidjoshi**

chrisrawr wrote:Renewable shields DESIGNED to be resistant to small-arms fire vs armour DESIGNED for space-work that ablates against it.

Because Space Marines were never meant for war. Where the feth would anybody ever get that idea from

Also, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here - that Space Marines are meant to survive in Space? They can, but that isn't the armour's main function.

And the shield is overglorified, and I think you know that as well as I do. The Space marine game shows armour has a shield which can be broken in the same way as the Halo games show Spartans have one. Doesn't mean they should be better at deflecting bullets than Astartes armour.

**doc1234**

liquidjoshi wrote:
chrisrawr wrote:Renewable shields DESIGNED to be resistant to small-arms fire vs armour DESIGNED for space-work that ablates against it.

Because Space Marines were never meant for war. Where the feth would anybody ever get that idea from

Also, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here - that Space Marines are meant to survive in Space? They can, but that isn't the armour's main function.

And the shield is overglorified, and I think you know that as well as I do. The Space marine game shows armour has a shield which can be broken in the same way as the Halo games show Spartans have one. Doesn't mean they should be better at deflecting bullets than Astartes armour.

By that logic though firewarriors should get shields too