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I dunno, you could still get a few hits with that blast lasguns, and generaly means you still got to hit 5+ to wound, but at least agaisnt Orks for example, no armour for them, and you can get a couple of them or even 3 under that blast; when you don't scatter in the wrong direction that is.

and at BS3, you still got 50% chance of hitting it, which is rather decent for a low power Anti-armour weapon; or well, an anti-Geq too.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Except they have to shoot, per the Lumbering Behemoth rule, and any contrary rule is overridden.

Since there are no rules for snap-firing ordnance weapons, you must assume they fire normally.

Sadly it doesn't work. Because the Lumbering Behemot rules clearly states that you can fire any weapon allowed. You aren't allowed to fire it, and because of that you can't. Simple really.

 Stoff3 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Except they have to shoot, per the Lumbering Behemoth rule, and any contrary rule is overridden.

Since there are no rules for snap-firing ordnance weapons, you must assume they fire normally.

Sadly it doesn't work. Because the Lumbering Behemot rules clearly states that you can fire any weapon allowed. You aren't allowed to fire it, and because of that you can't. Simple really.

The Main Gun is in ADDITION to any weapon allowed. But it's irrelevant now because they replaced LB (sadface)

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
I dunno, you could still get a few hits with that blast lasguns, and generaly means you still got to hit 5+ to wound, but at least agaisnt Orks for example, no armour for them, and you can get a couple of them or even 3 under that blast; when you don't scatter in the wrong direction that is.

and at BS3, you still got 50% chance of hitting it, which is rather decent for a low power Anti-armour weapon; or well, an anti-Geq too.

If you want to pay 5pts for extra lasguns go ahead. I'll be spending points on special weapons that, you know, are actually special .

The thing you have to remember is that all the other weapons have a specialty. Flamers thin out hordes way faster than GL's ever will, Snipers can wound MC for cheap and maybe even pick off a weapon, Meltas annihilate tanks, multiwound T4 Models, MC, etc, and plasma eat termies for breakfast and can even kill light tanks now pretty well.

Whereas a GL is a small blast lasgun, or a single Multi laser shot... A PCS with 4 of them MIGHT be worth it, until you remember said unit is 50pts. For that price, you could have bought a lascannon, and actually killed something. They just don't work as well in practice as they do in theory. They used to be handy in 5th because you could move and fire at 24", but it was still pretty meh. All it meant was that you could kind of harass vehicles at range, if you were lucky.

You'll always want more melta and more plasma. Not many games will you say "man, I wish I had brought more GL's"

Why are people still arguing over lumbering behemoth? That rule has been un-written.

MrMoustaffa wrote:Whereas a GL is a small blast lasgun, or a single Multi laser shot... A PCS with 4 of them MIGHT be worth it, until you remember said unit is 50pts. For that price, you could have bought a lascannon, and actually killed something.

Or, for that price, you could have brought a chimera. It has a REAL multilaser, and a free heavy bolter to boot. And it transports stuff. And is certainly more durable than a PCS.

Well, thanks for the input! Here's my first draft list, I've decided to use GK allies so I could get in some deep striking CC nastiness.

Librarian
10 grey knight terminators
CCS with vox caster and melta bomb
Primarus psyker
x3 veteran squads
PCS
x4 guardsmen squads
Leman Russ Battle Tank with heavy bolter sponsons and lascannon

200 points to spare, what should I use them for? Another Russ or to kit out the veterans? Is the librarian worth it or should I swap it (and maybe the veterans) for Corteaz and get some warrior henchmen and chuck them in a rhino(s)?

So far I've only purchased 5 GK terminators (although am quite adamant on including 10 of them) and the LRBT which already has a lascannon and heavy bolters.

trephines wrote:
Well, thanks for the input! Here's my first draft list, I've decided to use GK allies so I could get in some deep striking CC nastiness.

Please tell me you just omitted the weapon upgrades on the various IG units, and they're all carrying melta or plasma (or flamers on the PCS). If you actually didn't buy the weapon upgrades, buy them now. Cut whatever you have to until every unit that can take a melta or plasma gun has the maximum number it can take. Once you've done that, give an autocannon or lascannon to every squad that you plan to keep stationary (objective holding platoon squads, for example).

Once you've done that, you probably need to get Chimeras and/or Vendettas for the veteran squads. You don't have enough target saturation to keep foot vets alive, so without transports they're just going to get cut down by every random bolter squad before getting into range to do anything.

Drop the lascannon and sponson guns from the Leman Russ. The new FAQ makes paying for upgrade weapons pointless, and especially pointless when you have a mix of anti-infantry and anti-tank like the LC/HB combo.

Finally, you want a Vendetta or two anyway (or one of the FW heavy support flyers). You have nothing in your list that can handle enemy flyers, and AA units are mandatory in 6th.

It looks like the LRBT varients are looking better than ever. The punisher with pask, heavy bolter sponsons, and a heavy bolter up front, heck, throw in a heavy stubber and now you have alot of shots at BS.

Nope, I didn't omit weapon upgrades, the idea was to get as many bodies as possible.

I wouldn't have enough points to kit out the infantry AND veterans unless I traded out the Librarian for an inquisitor.

Is the primarus psyker still a good idea? I figured while not a necessary HQ choice, he's still does a decent job for a decent price.

trephines wrote:
Nope, I didn't omit weapon upgrades, the idea was to get as many bodies as possible.

This is a bad idea. IG kill stuff with their weapon upgrades, models with lasguns are primarily there as wound tokens to remove before you have to lose anything important. Without buying weapon upgrades you will fail to kill anything and I doubt you'll win a single game. For example, you have exactly one unit, the Leman Russ, which can even roll dice against an opposing Leman Russ, and even then you're only glancing on a 6. And you only have two units (add the psyker) which can even attempt to roll dice against a Rhino or Chimera, and many armies can bring 10+ of them. End result: your single anti-tank unit is a priority target and dies immediately, and then all you can do is remove casualties and hope the game ends before your opponent can finish killing everything.

This is especially true of veterans, since their sole purpose is to carry 3x melta or plasma guns and deliver them to an important target. Only using lasguns (or weak special weapons) is just wasting the BS 4 that you pay extra points for. If you aren't giving them 3x melta/plasma and a Chimera or Vendetta then don't bring them.

I wouldn't have enough points to kit out the infantry AND veterans unless I traded out the Librarian for an inquisitor.

Then drop a squad. Units without weapon upgrades are worthless, so even if you had to drop the librarian entirely you'd be better off.

Is the primarus psyker still a good idea? I figured while not a necessary HQ choice, he's still does a decent job for a decent price.

No. Its default power is mediocre (equal to the multilasers on a couple Chimeras on average), and the book powers are too random and inconsistent to count on. If you absolutely have to save points I guess you could keep a psyker with default powers, but you're better off taking GK psykers and a CCS with 4x melta or plasma.

Primaris pysker can take biomancy, so if you're combining the infantry squads that can come in handy. Still hard to rely on unless you've got several pyskers taking the powers.

As for the weapon upgrades, at least take SOMETHING. You have tons of slots just begging for weapons, especially the vet squads. Why are you buying them if you dont want special weapons? surely you're not buying them for BS 4 lasguns

If you're going to keep the vets on foot, you need to drop something and get those guys weapons. Once the vets have special weapons, get the CCS weapons. If you've stil got points, start buying weapons for the platoon squads. Think of it like this, would you buy a leman russes that only had a twin linked heavy bolter in the turret? Of course not. Thats what buying infantry units without special weapons is like. You've got units with great potential, only to have it wasted by leaving them barebones. It doesnt matter what you decide to drop, at least get the vets and CCS special weapons, you'll be glad you did. Heavy weapons would't hurt either but thats more a matter of personal taste.

What would you recommend then as to play out both the GK and IG strengths in 1000pts?

I was thinking I could split the terminators into 2 5 man squads as to fill out the FOC slots for the primary detachment then get an infantry platoon and load it out with flamers?

One little idea I thought would be fun was to use 11 inquisitorial henchmen, all arco flagellents with a psyker inquisitor for hammerhand and stick them in a rhino, that'd make a pretty beefy assault unit.

Is the librarian worth the cost and the inability to use my arco flagellents idea worth it?