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Right, I'll admit this is a touch vague, so if my opponent made a stink about it, I'd probably let him have it.

In a world where 40k isn't a social game, I'd allow it.

MrMoustaffa wrote:Tanks, tanks, more tanks, and flying tanks (vendettas)

Flying tanks... LRBT with wings... must resist the urge to convert that.

Unit1126PLL wrote:Except they have to shoot, per the Lumbering Behemoth rule, and any contrary rule is overridden.

No. The rule says they "can" shoot, not "must shoot" or "may always shoot".

gaovinni wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:Tanks, tanks, more tanks, and flying tanks (vendettas)

Flying tanks... LRBT with wings... must resist the urge to convert that.

It'd be cheaper than a vendetta kit

Testify wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:Except they have to shoot, per the Lumbering Behemoth rule, and any contrary rule is overridden.

No. The rule says they "can" shoot, not "must shoot" or "may always shoot".

Alright, so I choose to shoot because my codex says I can. What happens?

MrMoustaffa wrote:

gaovinni wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:Tanks, tanks, more tanks, and flying tanks (vendettas)

Flying tanks... LRBT with wings... must resist the urge to convert that.

It'd be cheaper than a vendetta kit

And way more epic in so many ways.

Back on track, since this isn't YMDC:

I second all of the above. Vendettas are phenomenal, clearly the best flyers in the game (since I'm convinced the Doom Scythe will be FAQ'd so the death ray can't hit other flyers), and the Leman Russ remains the beefiest non 14/14/14 vehicles in the game, and packs quite a wallop.

I also have to nominate a 5th edition staple that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread: Marbo. Marbo has, if nothing else, become even better in this new edition. He can land wherever you want, hit a specific side of a unit with his demo charge, and then wreak havoc until the opponent deals with him with an exorbitant amount of firepower. I took him in every fifth edition game I ever played with IG, and will continue to do so in 6th. For his point cost, he is simply one of the best bargains in the game.

trephines wrote:I'm writing a 500pt list, all I have so far model wise, is a CCS with 4 flamers and a LRBT with lascannon and heavy bolter sponsons, what would you suggest should fill out the rest? :S

Be a dick and take a CCS, 2 vets and 2 plain LRBTs. Good times.

trephines wrote:I'm writing a 500pt list, all I have so far model wise, is a CCS with 4 flamers and a LRBT with lascannon and heavy bolter sponsons, what would you suggest should fill out the rest? :S

Crap I don't think any of us ever answered this question.

Get a battleforce. That's 2 infantry squads, a CCS, a HWS, and a sentinel thrown in for free, which will help a lot in your first few games. After the battleforce, buy another CCS box. This way, you'll have a PCS available, and 3 of each special weapon available (since you made your CCS all flamers apparently)

Don't build any more flamers for now, and DO NOT MAKE GRENADE LAUNCHERS, they are terrible. Only take them if you literally cant take anything else. However, make sure you assemble your melta and plasma guys right away, they're always useful, and with the battleforce, you'd be able to have 2 squads of vets with good weapon choices right out of the gate. Add a couple of chimeras and you would have a pretty nasty low points list, especially with a russ and sentinel for fire support.

You'll be needing a lot more guardsmen though. Even a mechvet list will run between 40 to 80 guardsmen. Foot lists can easily get over a 120 once you hit the 1500pt range. I'd probably just buy a couple more battleforces, or talk to the local IG players and buy some scrubs off them. Every IG player has more guardsmen than he'll know what to do with, and they're usually more than happy to help a starting player. Yes they'll be painted crappy and have weird weapons, but they're better than nothing at all. Besides, you can always sell them off to the next new guy down the road as well.

Also, while Russes and artillery and all that are super fun, you don't need a lot of them at lower points levels. IG's strengths are our cheap troops and the guns they bring to the table. A single Russ is an incredibly powerful anvil for any 1,000pts list for example, and if you're taking that and a sentinel, most of the rest of your points should be going into your troops and HQ. The ork players have a saying that applies well to IG. "boyz before toyz" AKA get some solid troop choices first, then worry about the crazy stuff you'll add later. You can field a list with 2 vet squads and a CCS. You can't field a list with 2 CCS and 2 russes for example.

Whoa, I wasn't expecting such a good response!
So I assume LR's are what I want to build my list around?

I was thinking (no idea about how much this would cost, this is very rough)

vanilla CCS on foot to accompany 4 squad infantry platoon (what special weapons would be best cost-wise?)
a primarus psyker
2 veteran squads with 3 plasma guns and a plasma pistol in chimera's
2 LR's and some sentinels? Or are sentinels just complete rubbish?

the aegis . vendettas , russes , blob squads , vets are all nice . but aegis is something that changed IG to be a lot better . I would pay 150 pts for one , even without a gun, If I could get more then one .

-and what Leman Russ loadouts are the best (by that I mean most cost effective?

I've worked out a list for a Grey Knights (by that I mean 10 terminators and a librarian) and IG allied force which I can post if you guys would want to see it (: and the list leaves 200 points spare for a nice big tank!

For me it has after several games proven to be the humble guardsmen and the trusty LRBT armed with battle cannon, hull mounted las cannon and HB sponsons

You really can't go wrong with the basic russ with a hull mounted lascannon. Other people like to throw bolter sponsons on it, but I've never seen the appeal in it. You only get 1 extra bolter hit a turn as you'll always be snapfiring them with the battlecannon, and unless I lost the lascannon, I'm not using the lumbering behemoth rule to give one of them regular BS. Yeah, they absorb weapon destroyed results, but I think I'd rather use the 20pts elsewhere.

However, on a punisher or exterminator, heavy bolter sponsons are awesome. Definitely try them on those two tanks.

Psshhht. It's still the humble guardsman.

I've noticed the Leman Russ got much more durable, but as far as my favorite goes, It has to be the guardsman. When they do pull of acts of heroism on the table, you always seem to remember them the most.

For example, when faced with many monstrous tyranids, my meager 10 man squad tucked their chin to their chest, their las-rifle to their sholders, and first-rank-fired one to death. Then, they advanced 10 paces and did the same thing again to the next one!

My Armored Company has rocked the shop here in 6th.

Best Leman Russ for the points is the 150 LRBT standard.

No fuss, randomly destroyed weapons keeps the main gun operational 50% of the time, and can deal with any and all threats excluding another LRBT or Land Raider (and even my armored company ones can tackle them well!) or 2+ armor save units (which it still does ok against because of the 10,000 wounds that a direct hit would apply).

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
My Armored Company has rocked the shop here in 6th.

Best Leman Russ for the points is the 150 LRBT standard.

No fuss, randomly destroyed weapons keeps the main gun operational 50% of the time, and can deal with any and all threats excluding another LRBT or Land Raider (and even my armored company ones can tackle them well!) or 2+ armor save units (which it still does ok against because of the 10,000 wounds that a direct hit would apply).

I want to run an armored company so badly with my foot horde, but nobody around here plays forge world

Of course, my obsession with leman russes is pretty well known by now

Just curious, are the command and commissar tanks as good as they look on paper? Both of them look to have really awesome abilities for an almost insignificant points cost. And is the "ace gunner" skill really the best to take? None of the other skills seemed that awesome except for the reroll one.

Sorry for sudden off topic, but I'm always trying to learn more about Armored Company, not many people play it.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
My Armored Company has rocked the shop here in 6th.

Best Leman Russ for the points is the 150 LRBT standard.

No fuss, randomly destroyed weapons keeps the main gun operational 50% of the time, and can deal with any and all threats excluding another LRBT or Land Raider (and even my armored company ones can tackle them well!) or 2+ armor save units (which it still does ok against because of the 10,000 wounds that a direct hit would apply).

I want to run an armored company so badly with my foot horde, but nobody around here plays forge world

Of course, my obsession with leman russes is pretty well known by now

Just curious, are the command and commissar tanks as good as they look on paper? Both of them look to have really awesome abilities for an almost insignificant points cost. And is the "ace gunner" skill really the best to take? None of the other skills seemed that awesome except for the reroll one.

Sorry for sudden off topic, but I'm always trying to learn more about Armored Company, not many people play it.

You've certainly come to the right place: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/398538.page - I've been running an Armored Company for years. Also that thread is significantly outdated at this point.

Command tanks are great, although less so in 6th due to the weird application of Lumbering Behemoth. The Commissar Tank is great too, but it doesn't help too much unless you run enough infantry to really take advantage of that Leadership 10. You'd be surprised how useful the different skills are (especially slick loader - it's gotten to the point that I stopped running it except in Apoc), but Ace Gunner just makes the Leman Russ into a murder machine against other tanks. Imagine a lascannon that gets 2d6 and picks the highest for armor penetration against every vehicle under a large blast template.

This means, of course, that in 6th you can make an extremely fluffy armored company comprised almost entirely of the basic Leman Russ (9x for me) and a nice Command Tank like a Vanquisher or somesuch.

After taking some upgrades (but nothing silly like extra armor) then you usually have enough points left over for some cool bits, like Storm Troopers in a Vendetta or the like.

Yeah I had been considering doing a list where I took an armored battlegroup to provide russes, and the vanilla IG codex to provide infantry. Would let me field lots of infantry and tanks, which are my two favorite things for IG.

And yes, ace gunner is just insane for the points you pay. Pretty much every tank get's better with it. It's pask's tank hunter rule essentially, but you only pay 10pts, and you can use it even when moving.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Yeah I had been considering doing a list where I took an armored battlegroup to provide russes, and the vanilla IG codex to provide infantry. Would let me field lots of infantry and tanks, which are my two favorite things for IG.

And yes, ace gunner is just insane for the points you pay. Pretty much every tank get's better with it. It's pask's tank hunter rule essentially, but you only pay 10pts, and you can use it even when moving.

Yes, ace gunners is great.

They are counted as Battle Brothers with one another per the FAQ, and any tank in a force lead by Grizmund (an Armored Battlegroup special character) can take Ace Crew Skills - not just the tanks in his detachment. Also, they may take as many ace crew skills as they like.

So a squadron of Russes as allies: Grizmund with a hull lascannon (190) and two troops LRBTs with nothing (300).

This means that every other tank in the army, IG or AB, can take Ace Gunners and Skilled Driver for the +1 Armor Pen and discounted dozer blade.

WELL,

with the new FAQ, Leman Russes can no longer fire when shaken BUT now can fire a ridiculous number of guns at full BS on the move.

This means that an Executioner or demolisher can fire two plasma cannons, a lascannon, and their main guns while moving with no loss of firepower whatsoever.

Buff to command tanks in the AB

But lumbering behemoth no longer lifts the restriction on firing other stuff. Now it's firing the splatcannon OR its other guns, rather than firing the splatcannon, and one of its other guns at full BS.

And it prevents them from moving at combat speed, in which non-ordnance tanks could still operate. And prevents them from being a proper infantry screen.

Russes just got worse.

Vendetta's IMHO and Plasma Veteran squads.

I need to go study the rulebook to see how the change to "Heavy" affects the LRBT now after the latest FAQ was released.

 HungryTaz wrote:
I need to go study the rulebook to see how the change to "Heavy" affects the LRBT now after the latest FAQ was released.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474969.page

My experience apparently differs from many here. I haven't found tanks of almost any kind live long enough to do their job (at least not as well as in 5E), certainly not Chimeras, and LR's if kitted with tons of guns are rarely worth their price anymore (yeah yeah, glances don't shake/stun, but you're a hell of a lot more likely to be dead by turn 3 rather than shaken a turn or two out of 6), and the change to Heavy made Ordnance LR's much worse as multi-gun platforms.

Likewise, while Vendettas as flyers are scary, they are no longer there to deliver troops turn 1 in hilarious "scout, start turn 1 and disembark, move and melta anything" moves, and no longer add their very prominent firepower to a turn 1 alpha strike, meaning it's more likely that enemy vehicles and especially MC's make it to where I don't want them to make it.

indeed the ordnance LR got worse - I forgot that you are still snap-firing guns when you fire ordnance even if you were stationary.

DO NOT MAKE GRENADE LAUNCHERS, they are terrible. Only take them if you literally cant take anything else.

I got to ask, what is with everyone hating or turning away the Grenade Launcher?

They're terrible weapons. They did gain a bit from the new glance-to-death rules, but their firepower is still really, really low.

In frag mode, you basically have to pay 5 points for a blast lasgun. Against vehicles, a single S6 shot at BS3 really, really isn't likely to accomplish much. Waste of points, and a waste of a special weapon slot.

Unless you've got a LOT of special weapons slots open, and you can't make enough points for real guns, then perhaps use them as filler, but they're not a good upgrade in their own right.