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 TheContortionist wrote:
i paint a TON of gauardsmen and gaunts. my brushes do not last years. i don't care how good they are.

Sounds like me. Until I discovered the colored primers.

That said... I don't buy expensive brushes, once in a while I head to the local large box art store here in the states and grab some of the brushes to expand what I have, I also sometimes buy those big x brushes for 5-10 buck deals, which are good for drybrushing or laying down thin basecoats. I keep saying that one of these days I will spend some cash on some of the nice brushes, but until then my aging old GW brushes do the job well enough (the red ones, along with a set of the black ones that I got with a mega paint set before they changed all of the bottles to the new design) Some of those cheap brushes also work wonders for spreading minwax on guardsmen/bugs (dipping without the actual dipping)

Yuuichi_Trapspringer wrote:

That said... I don't buy expensive brushes, once in a while I head to the local large box art store here in the states and grab some of the brushes to expand what I have, I also sometimes buy those big x brushes for 5-10 buck deals, which are good for drybrushing or laying down thin basecoats. I keep saying that one of these days I will spend some cash on some of the nice brushes, but until then my aging old GW brushes do the job well enough (the red ones, along with a set of the black ones that I got with a mega paint set before they changed all of the bottles to the new design) Some of those cheap brushes also work wonders for spreading minwax on guardsmen/bugs (dipping without the actual dipping)

Exactly, this is what I do, value I get for my brushes is just so much better than I'd get from Citadel, or Army Painter, whose brushes are IMO no better than GW ones. Just bought a sharp detail brush for 1€, that's one-fifth what Citadel or AP brush would cost, and it's much better.

I had a Windsor Newton brush in its tube for several months and my fear of ruining it actually prevented me from using it. Recently I started painting with it and it blew my mind. In almost 20 years of painting, I've never had such an excellent brush.

As states that brush has been used. Also for future buys of any brushes/paints/hobby supplies. Check to see if unopened. As for good brushes gw large and standard brushes are good for what they are. Don't buy hobby lobby or micheals stuff super cheap and not worth anything. For detail I got some brushes ( can't remember if it was from tamiya(spelling?) or not but it was from them or testors.

I just bought my second batch of W&N series 7 brushes.

The first ones are still in decent enough shape to use - they just don't have a fine enough point for really intricate detail work anymore. I've been using them since '09 though.

They are rather pricey though. 3 brushes ( a 000, 0 and 2) cost me almost $50.

I tend to not buy expensive brushes because I go through them quickly. I'd like to pretend it's because I paint a lot, but more realistically it's because I abuse them. I have limited time to work on the hobby so when I do I like to pump out models quickly, so I'm lazy with brush care.

 filbert wrote:
Seconded on the cleaner - that stuff has made a massive difference to the longevity and pointyness of my brushes, something I always struggled with.

What kind of cleaner do you guys use? My brushes last about 6 months max, and I paint a fair amount. I tend to buy brushes in the $5 range.

Masters brush cleaner is your friend.

I cant say enough good things about the Raphael 8404. Love it.
http://www.secretweaponminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=7

I store my brushes standing up in a cup, with the brush end pointing upwards, obviously. How do other people store their brushes? Laying on their sides?

Is this also shortening their life?

As noted above, I use the Master's Brush cleaner, you can get it from Amazon for £5 for a tub and it lasts ages. I use Windsor & Newton brushes that come with their own tip protector sleeves and a little plastic tube that you can store them in which negates having to store them in a cup or what have you.

Do you stand the tube upright or lay it on it's side?

I've been painting since 2001, and I have never taken the time to learn proper brush care.

 WaaaaghLord wrote:

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
Every single gw brush ive ever used has been waaay too big. I cant believe the eavy metal painters can get such detail with those things. I prefer armypainter brushes or just generic small art store ones.

That's because they probably don't. I find it really hard to believe anyone can get results like that with the crap GW pedal. Each probably has their own set of brushes, according to their preference. By the looks of it, a lot of Eavy Metal's tanks are airbrushed, GW doesn't even make an airbrush...

They do have their own airbrush:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat470006a&prodId=prod1350028

But it's really bad, or so I hear.

Just lay it on it's side in a metal desk tidy rack thing that I have high up on a bookshelf away from tiny, prying fingers (my 2 year old daughter is endlessly fascinated by these things).

Once the brushes are in the tubes with the tip protectors on it doesn't really matter how you store them.

I use the Standard, and Basecoat brush from GW. For anything smaller I use a 00, and a 0 D'vinci. The fine detail and detail brushes from GW were lacking.

Thank you for the advice, gents!

I got three in a row like this. Went to another store, boom, perfect.

 kronk wrote:
I store my brushes standing up in a cup, with the brush end pointing upwards, obviously. How do other people store their brushes? Laying on their sides?

Is this also shortening their life?

I use this: http://www.dickblick.com/products/artbin-essentials-brush-box/

It's much larger than it appears. It will hold 20 brushes in the sizes we use, but it's large enough for large long handled brushes. I use that for all of my nicer brushes.

For cheap synthetic brushes that I use for mostly non painting purposes(cleaning and basing) I have http://www.dickblick.com/products/loew-cornell-multi-bin-holder/ which I also keep my files and clay shapers in.

kronk wrote:I store my brushes standing up in a cup, with the brush end pointing upwards, obviously. How do other people store their brushes? Laying on their sides?

Is this also shortening their life?

I use one of these:

these days, and it seems to work a treat - have a decent selection of brushes and sculpting tools in it. (4 silicone shapers, a metal multishaper, 3 dry brushes, around 10 round brushes and 6-7 flat brushes I think. Oh, and a Scalpel handle with a cap)

I've been using the dick blick master kolinsky sable brushes for a few years now.

http://www.dickblick.com/products/blick-master-kolinsky-sable-short-handle-brushes/

They're about half the cost of a windsor and newton, and have held their points over years of use. They also make a 5/0, which is really, really tiny.

Though, for those in the US, there's a nice set of five W&N for sale for $60:

http://www.dickblick.com/products/winsor-and-newton-series-7-kolinsky-sable-pointed-round/#description

Looking at reviews for the W&N on the Dick Blick site seems to confirm the idea that the quality is less consistent now.

 Polonius wrote:
I've been using the dick blick master kolinsky sable brushes for a few years now.

http://www.dickblick.com/products/blick-master-kolinsky-sable-short-handle-brushes/

They're about half the cost of a windsor and newton, and have held their points over years of use. They also make a 5/0, which is really, really tiny.

Though, for those in the US, there's a nice set of five W&N for sale for $60:

http://www.dickblick.com/products/winsor-and-newton-series-7-kolinsky-sable-pointed-round/#description

Looking at reviews for the W&N on the Dick Blick site seems to confirm the idea that the quality is less consistent now.

5 W&N's for $60 plus shipping(which is apparently a sale price) vs R&C brushes where 5 of them run $28 plus shipping and they are equal quality.

I have a few of the Blick Studio sable brushes and they were ok but seemed to lose their points after a few months.

I can't speak to the qualify of eithe rW&N or R&C.

the studio are the black handled ones? I use the masters which are red handled. With decent care, but hard use, they've held points for years. Maybe I got a good batch, but I work my brushes hard and they keep going.

I use the W&N series 7 brushes.

I bought a 0, 1 and miniature 1 about 18 months ago. After each session I use a liberal amount of the Master Brush Cleaner. I used to go through a set of the cheapo generic brushes once a month - even using the brush cleaner. At this point I'm not sure if I'll ever have to replace the W&Ns. With the generics I spent about $15/month replacing them. Which is about $270 for the same time period I have owned the W&N's. The W&N's are more expensive up front, but they will last a LOT longer and give you so much more control over where the paint actually ends up. As an example, I never understood how people managed to paint eyes until I tried it with the W&N brushes.

Incidentally, I've found that I haven't used the miniature size 1 brush in a very long time. Most of the time I use the standard size 1. For very tiny details I'll use the size 0. The main reason is that the regular size 1 has a large enough body to hold more paint AND it's point is just as good as the miniature size. So, imho, there is really no point in getting the "miniature" brushes.

Bear in mind that you want to regularly clean the brush out during your paint session. The paints we use dry pretty fast so take care not to cover the entire brush in paint and rinse it out every few minutes. When done, use the Master Brush Cleaner and store them correctly.

Final note: everything I said above about the W&N's actually applies to almost any Kolinsky Sable brush. The benefit is a combination of the brush type, ferrule and body. There are plenty of manufacturers (including some generics) that would work just as well.

 Polonius wrote:
I can't speak to the qualify of eithe rW&N or R&C.

the studio are the black handled ones? I use the masters which are red handled. With decent care, but hard use, they've held points for years. Maybe I got a good batch, but I work my brushes hard and they keep going.

The studio ones I have are dark brown with the wood grain showing, they almost look like they were designed in the 70s. They were good for the price(about $7ea) but long use saw them start to fade.

 Aerethan wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I can't speak to the qualify of eithe rW&N or R&C.

the studio are the black handled ones? I use the masters which are red handled. With decent care, but hard use, they've held points for years. Maybe I got a good batch, but I work my brushes hard and they keep going.

The studio ones I have are dark brown with the wood grain showing, they almost look like they were designed in the 70s. They were good for the price(about $7ea) but long use saw them start to fade.

Yeah, I've used the studio nylons. Not bad brushes at all, but not the professional grade of the Master, IMO.

when I get home, I'll take some pictures of my size 0 brush. It's a workhorse that can even tolerate light drybrushing, and holds a sharp point.

Can someone translate the GW brush sizes into 'proper' brush sizes?

I look at the numbers and go all dizzy....

There is no such thing as standard brush sizes. It's one reason companies like Army Painter just label them by use.

 Polonius wrote:
There is no such thing as standard brush sizes. It's one reason companies like Army Painter just label them by use.

Sadly this is quite true. Brush sizes vary by company. The order of numbers is often the same, but the actual size of a 0 from one company will be different from another company.


A few guidelines:
0&1 are considered average use, they would be the main brushes used for the average painter.
2 would be a basecoat brush
00 or 2/0 would be a detail brush
000 or 3/0 would be a fine detail brush
5/0 would be super fine detail
and 10/0 or 20/0 is pretty much only used for eyeballs.

Army Painters "Insane Detail Brush" is the smallest one I have, and it's about a 20/0 IMO.

Because of my own personal taste, I use a 2/0 for about 60% of my work, a 0 for 30 and the smaller brushes for the remaining 10%. The only time I use my 1 is for washes.

Cheers even that rough guide is really helpful!

 Aerethan wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
There is no such thing as standard brush sizes. It's one reason companies like Army Painter just label them by use.

Sadly this is quite true. Brush sizes vary by company. The order of numbers is often the same, but the actual size of a 0 from one company will be different from another company.


A few guidelines:
0&1 are considered average use, they would be the main brushes used for the average painter.
2 would be a basecoat brush
00 or 2/0 would be a detail brush
000 or 3/0 would be a fine detail brush
5/0 would be super fine detail
and 10/0 or 20/0 is pretty much only used for eyeballs.

Army Painters "Insane Detail Brush" is the smallest one I have, and it's about a 20/0 IMO.

Because of my own personal taste, I use a 2/0 for about 60% of my work, a 0 for 30 and the smaller brushes for the remaining 10%. The only time I use my 1 is for washes.

Keep in mind though, if you are looking at proper brushes (as opposed to those through a reseller like GW/Army Painter) there is more to the brush than the number itself.

There will be terms like rounds, pointed rounds, full bellied rounds, detail rounds, liners for the "regular" brushes. You also have flats, brights, filberts, cat's tongues, mops and fans for the "flat" brushes. You also have different handle styles (short and fat, long and skinny, triangular and square...).

You can get a 0 detail round which allows more control and finer lines than a 5/0 normal round. You can use a 1 full bellied round and base coat faster than you could with a 2 or even 4 flat (especially if it is a bright or cat's tongue).

Most brush manufacturers and better supply dealers will have a guide on their site or proper pictures on their sites. I know Dick Blick has some excellent guides and lists measurements for most of the brushes they sell.

Low,quality products at high prices, tricking you into thinking its high quality. You eventually rage quit and drop the hobby and GW targets another. This is their new business strategy